My group: five PCs level 10-11, Cleric Warlock Fighter Blood Hunter Barbarian
The enemy: one, singular beholder
The encounter calculator said this fight is hard, but not deadly and certainly not impossible. But me looking at the beholder's abilities leaves me uncertain. Opinions?
Depends a fair amount on party makeup and situation. The biggest issue is that at least one and possibly as many as three of those characters are melee builds, and beholders can fly (and flying up to engage it is just asking to be hit by antimagic).
Im not a fan or the CR system. Not saying that I dont use it, I just dont trust it. I simply see it as a guide line or a whereabouts for a given level group. So far in my nearly 2 year campaign if I rely on CR my players steamroll through stuff. I often times will toss encounters of a much, much higher rating then the players. They usually fair well. An important thing to look at is what the monster/monsters can do. Now when it comes to a beholder you can give you players a real challenge if you pair it with something else. Definitely give it some minions. Just dont go overboard. Set it up so the Beholder can call in more minions if you feel that it gets to overwhelmed by the players.
Im not a fan or the CR system. Not saying that I dont use it, I just dont trust it. I simply see it as a guide line or a whereabouts for a given level group. So far in my nearly 2 year campaign if I rely on CR my players steamroll through stuff. I often times will toss encounters of a much, much higher rating then the players. They usually fair well. An important thing to look at is what the monster/monsters can do. Now when it comes to a beholder you can give you players a real challenge if you pair it with something else. Definitely give it some minions. Just dont go overboard. Set it up so the Beholder can call in more minions if you feel that it gets to overwhelmed by the players.
I like the idea of adding minions if there is concern the battle may be too one-sided. A Gazer would be an ideal minion though it is a lot of eyestalk magic being slung around.
- what encounters are there before they meet the beholder (and after last long/short rest) , or how many resources does the group have left when facing the beholder.
- how are you shaping the encounter. If they face the beholder in its own lair, you really need to maximise all the advantages of the Monster, and minimize all its weaknesses. Floor full of traps. Flying above the players at max range.
- what encounters comes after the Beholder, if there are encounters after, and the players know it, they might hold back on some spells or abilities, making this fight a bit harder for them in order to make the next encounter survivable. If they know its the "end boss" and they can rest after, they can safely use their big spells, abilities etc. making them more powerfull.
Im not a fan or the CR system. Not saying that I dont use it, I just dont trust it. I simply see it as a guide line or a whereabouts for a given level group.
It works as well as it did in previous editions (which is to say, marginally), but it's really not possible to create a simple system that works.
I set up encounters from the monsters point of view. If the monster is smart it will set up its lair with minions and give itself every possible advantage... including an escape hatch
L10 players should be smart enough to do some scouting and not engage head on if they see something they can’t handle.
Running Beholders is strange, because mechanically, only 3 of their eye rays deal damage, and if played RAW they are randomly chosen so there is a chance you could go a round (or several) without dealing any damage. I've run a beholder twice, once for a party of four lvl 8 characters (they were running away from it with a treasure, not trying to kill it; they succeeded with the objective but 3 of them died). and for five level 12 characters (they would have made short work of him as they were all ranged/caster types and knew to spread out and keep the antimagic cone on just a few of them at a time, so I threw in some minions to keep them busy and extend the fight. They defeated him with two dropping to 0 HP and one dying). So for level 10 characters, depending on rolls, you could have a cakewalk, or a TPK, based on dice rolls alone.
Some tips from my experiences:
Add environmental hazards (pits, lava, acid, etc) to the encounter area. The beholder can make good use of its Telekinesis if it can drag you over a cliff or into a pool of acid and it fits with a creature who wants to make the most of its own abilities. I used an acid river in one of my encounters and a 150 foot fall in another to pretty great effect, and it added a level of complexity to the fight
Keep him aloft. Melee attacks don't work if the beholder is above you and out of range. A smart creature would never willingly get to the same level as the PCs if it can help it, and it can't fall due to its hover trait.
Use darkness to your advantage: the beholder has twice the darkvision naturally given to players (except for certain special abilities). it can use dark areas of its lair/encounter area to retreat or attack from out of sight. Keep him near there though as he can't move there fast.
Don't forget legendary/lair actions!
Use minions to tie up the PCs (and also, to let the melee PCs have something to do; they won't be as effective unless you can force the beholder to the ground somehow)
I had 6 level 8 PC's wipe the floor with my Beholder along with half a dozen giant spiders due to a couple of exceptionaly bad saves on my part. With only 1 enemy, it's really easy for it to swing either way unless you're going to fudge dice.
Im npt entirely sure about cr accuracy because i 3 lvl 5 characters gank a death tyrant
Bro. 3 level 5s? That's insane. Anyway, I have actually been wondering the same thing, as the final boss of my campaign is a beholder. I'm not sure what level I should let the players be. I almost decided on 15, but after seeing some of these stories, even with minions that seems lie it might be easy. I feel like beholders are incredibly random, as iconarising said previously. It all depends on the dice. Any other advice?
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A lich beholder could and would fight God. I desperately want to make it fight my players instead.
Depends on the dice. What I do is randomly roll the eye rays. Then use the INT 17 to best effect. So restraint the pc then disadvantage on dex saves. Woo Hoo. And remember smart monsters run away if possible. Then call mommy for backup.
who would be a 'mommy' or 'daddy' for that matter for a beholder?
Not sure if you're joking or legitimately asking. Beholders don't give birth, they are dreamed into existence by other beholders. Then they - typically - fight to the death, because beholders hate each other.
Im not a fan or the CR system. Not saying that I dont use it, I just dont trust it. I simply see it as a guide line or a whereabouts for a given level group.
It works as well as it did in previous editions (which is to say, marginally), but it's really not possible to create a simple system that works.
Ill agree with that. It really comes down to knowing your players and their characters. Knowing the monsters and what they can do also helps. I have had situations where a CR rating far lower then the the group gave them a fair amount of trouble. On the other hand just the opposite as well. I often times have better luck when I mod the monsters or re-skin.
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My group: five PCs level 10-11,
Cleric
Warlock
Fighter
Blood Hunter
Barbarian
The enemy: one, singular beholder
The encounter calculator said this fight is hard, but not deadly and certainly not impossible. But me looking at the beholder's abilities leaves me uncertain. Opinions?
Five PCs against a single enemy will always be biased in favour of the party.
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D&D Beyond FoundersIt depends massively on how you play the beholder, whether it's ready for them, whether they are ready for it, the terrain, traps, etc etc
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Depends a fair amount on party makeup and situation. The biggest issue is that at least one and possibly as many as three of those characters are melee builds, and beholders can fly (and flying up to engage it is just asking to be hit by antimagic).
Im not a fan or the CR system. Not saying that I dont use it, I just dont trust it. I simply see it as a guide line or a whereabouts for a given level group. So far in my nearly 2 year campaign if I rely on CR my players steamroll through stuff. I often times will toss encounters of a much, much higher rating then the players. They usually fair well. An important thing to look at is what the monster/monsters can do. Now when it comes to a beholder you can give you players a real challenge if you pair it with something else. Definitely give it some minions. Just dont go overboard. Set it up so the Beholder can call in more minions if you feel that it gets to overwhelmed by the players.
I like the idea of adding minions if there is concern the battle may be too one-sided. A Gazer would be an ideal minion though it is a lot of eyestalk magic being slung around.
- what encounters are there before they meet the beholder (and after last long/short rest) , or how many resources does the group have left when facing the beholder.
- how are you shaping the encounter. If they face the beholder in its own lair, you really need to maximise all the advantages of the Monster, and minimize all its weaknesses. Floor full of traps. Flying above the players at max range.
- what encounters comes after the Beholder, if there are encounters after, and the players know it, they might hold back on some spells or abilities, making this fight a bit harder for them in order to make the next encounter survivable. If they know its the "end boss" and they can rest after, they can safely use their big spells, abilities etc. making them more powerfull.
It works as well as it did in previous editions (which is to say, marginally), but it's really not possible to create a simple system that works.
I set up encounters from the monsters point of view. If the monster is smart it will set up its lair with minions and give itself every possible advantage... including an escape hatch
L10 players should be smart enough to do some scouting and not engage head on if they see something they can’t handle.
Running Beholders is strange, because mechanically, only 3 of their eye rays deal damage, and if played RAW they are randomly chosen so there is a chance you could go a round (or several) without dealing any damage. I've run a beholder twice, once for a party of four lvl 8 characters (they were running away from it with a treasure, not trying to kill it; they succeeded with the objective but 3 of them died). and for five level 12 characters (they would have made short work of him as they were all ranged/caster types and knew to spread out and keep the antimagic cone on just a few of them at a time, so I threw in some minions to keep them busy and extend the fight. They defeated him with two dropping to 0 HP and one dying). So for level 10 characters, depending on rolls, you could have a cakewalk, or a TPK, based on dice rolls alone.
Some tips from my experiences:
I had 6 level 8 PC's wipe the floor with my Beholder along with half a dozen giant spiders due to a couple of exceptionaly bad saves on my part. With only 1 enemy, it's really easy for it to swing either way unless you're going to fudge dice.
Im npt entirely sure about cr accuracy because i 3 lvl 5 characters gank a death tyrant
Bro. 3 level 5s? That's insane. Anyway, I have actually been wondering the same thing, as the final boss of my campaign is a beholder. I'm not sure what level I should let the players be. I almost decided on 15, but after seeing some of these stories, even with minions that seems lie it might be easy. I feel like beholders are incredibly random, as iconarising said previously. It all depends on the dice. Any other advice?
A lich beholder could and would fight God. I desperately want to make it fight my players instead.
Depends on the dice. What I do is randomly roll the eye rays. Then use the INT 17 to best effect. So restraint the pc then disadvantage on dex saves. Woo Hoo. And remember smart monsters run away if possible. Then call mommy for backup.
No Gaming is Better than Bad Gaming.
who would be a 'mommy' or 'daddy' for that matter for a beholder?
That would be telling. And never get grandmother of the beholder on your bad side! (Insert evil grin)
No Gaming is Better than Bad Gaming.
Not sure if you're joking or legitimately asking. Beholders don't give birth, they are dreamed into existence by other beholders. Then they - typically - fight to the death, because beholders hate each other.
Yes, it was a joke as I was just continuing the thought from jasperrdm in the post above mine.
Ugh, the adventures would never be good enough for their Grand-It so that put's a new meaning to 'giving you the evil eye'.
Ill agree with that. It really comes down to knowing your players and their characters. Knowing the monsters and what they can do also helps. I have had situations where a CR rating far lower then the the group gave them a fair amount of trouble. On the other hand just the opposite as well. I often times have better luck when I mod the monsters or re-skin.