I have a player that struggles to keep up with what is happening during the game. She has come to me and said she doesn't have a very good imagination. She says if she could see it it would help but there is only so much I can do. We use battle maps for combat but she struggles follow along even when out of combat. For example, there was a short inconsequential conversation between a few of the players and a blacksmith. When the blacksmith complemented her weapon she didn't understand why. I don't know how to help this player.
BTW kicking is not an option, the player is my spouse.
I have a player like that too, though they are not my spouse.
I would recommend looking up ways to maintain player engagement. Doing some of those tricks might help. Getting more detailed descriptions, doing distinct voices, having reference images, meaningful RP, that sort of thing. That sort of thing has helped my player. If that stuff doesn't work, be open to collaborating with your spouse and trying new things potentially outside of the game to find something that allows them to get more engaged.
Also, If they are having fun then it should be less of an issue. If they are just unable to enjoy the game without a masterwork of showmanship then maybe they shouldn't play especially if they are bringing down others as well. That is NOT saying to boot them from the game, but if they are not having fun with what you are able to reasonably prepare that is not your fault and their time might be better spend playing something more visual like A video game (Skyrim, The Witcher) or a board game (5 minute dungeon)
I doubt it is lack of imagination, she might just not understand things that the rest of the table is taking for granted. I would go back over the Blacksmith conversation just between the two of you and ask her to reply in character. So, whatever the blacksmith said, "I really like the design of your bolster, does it have a full bladed fuller?" and if her honest answer is, "I don't know what you said" then have her say, "I'm sorry, I don't know you said." just like in normal life. Your blacksmith can then say, "I was just appreciating the craftsmanship and how your blade was put together. The bolster is where the handle and the blade meet and you don't see workmanship like that around here very often, I mean, unless I did it, of course." Where she is perfectly allowed to say, "I don't know... I just bought it cause that's what they had."
Obviously I have no idea how that conversation went down. It could have been because of technical terms. It could have been that the conversation was half-meta, half in-character (as many of those kind are) and she is having trouble connecting in to the types of shops she would never go to in real life. Ask her what kind of shop she would like to go into and provide the same level of care in crafting the NPC there that you used for the blacksmith. Or even more if you are afraid that the blacksmith didn't really have much and you were winging it off the cuff. Think of the things she likes in real life and draw her in through that. The Hobby Lobby of your game world... or the best sandwich shoppe... or a local specialized vintner.
I'm also hoping that you have another female player at the table that she can connect with. It can often be difficult for a lone female to try to engage in a foreign concept that many of our D&D worlds are without someone to go along with. And when possible, add more description and ask her opinion about how things look. If all the map details are listed as N, S, E or W, try adding some landmarks, "Just past the lightning forked tree" or "the round rock by the gray cactus". And I hope you have a good mix of male and female NPCs that aren't split according to how we would normally associate roles and trades. Make the blacksmith and the ferrier in one town sisters who work on adding aesthetic marks to their items. Make the local tavern have a male waiter instead of a waitress. etc.
Again, those are just some generalities without more specifics on what happened...
Is she fairly new to D&D? If so, some of the issues might just be a matter of time as she's learning how to envision and interact with things (especially if she's admitting to not having a very good imagination). Not everybody will be good at imagining things, and I've also had a number of players over the years that struggled with this ability. However, most people improve over time as they grow accustomed to having to imagine scenes more so than seeing everything on a screen or game board.
Also, just to clarify, how engaged is she during the sessions? By they way that you describe some of the examples, it sounds like she might not be fully engaged or catching some of the details, which lends to not understanding what was going on. Again, I've been there myself with some players in the past. If she struggles with imagination, then she might not be as engaged (which might not even be intentional). If that's part of the issue, then you might need to help draw her back in.
Agree that there is only so much visual material you can provide. You are already providing battle maps, which should help. Maybe you need to use some basic maps for non-battle scenes as well? Make it easier for her to see the group's characters as they interact with your NPC(s). More work but might be worth it. Similarly, pictures of a monster or NPC might be useful as well. Even a generic image of the blacksmith as the group is interacting with him/her might give her brain something to focus on and make it easier to envision.
Taking that a step further, I've borrowed stuff form my daughters' custom bin at time to have one or two items on me when I've played out an NPC at times as well. Might be overkill to do, but I've found that it can help new and/or struggling players envision the person better if they see the DM differently when they're being that different NPC.
Maybe try printing out or drawing a reference image for each location, NPC, and monster before each setting. When one becomes important, you can hand it over the DM screen to show the players. That might help a player who finds it hard to imagine something without a visual.
To answer some questions: Most of the party are brand new to dnd in general, so we are taking things slow. The last session was the first one where we really got some good rp. We do have another woman at the table who is also a newbie. At the end of the session she said that it was starting to make more sense, so I wonder if perhaps it is an experience thing, and as time goes by she will feel more comfortable.
Does your spouse read fiction novels/books? What other hobbies might they have which would require imagination? Do they have any discussions about what might be happen next in fictional series on TV series?
Finding an existing way that they use their imagination might help in deciding how to approach descriptions in the game?
Does your spouse read fiction novels/books? What other hobbies might they have which would require imagination? Do they have any discussions about what might be happen next in fictional series on TV series?
Finding an existing way that they use their imagination might help in deciding how to approach descriptions in the game?
That's the problem. the only fantasy series she ever liked was Harry Potter and says that was a stretch. She is getting better, I just don't want her to burn out before she starts really enjoying herself.
Maybe try a board game that is fantasy setting. That way the rules and what can be done is more narrow but the language is the same? Might help prompt general images/imagination.
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All posts come with the caveat that I don't know what I'm talking about.
As you (presumably) live with her, you have a good opportunity to help her outside of the game. If you have a scene planned in a royal court next week, perhaps show her dragonsreach in Skyrim and tell her that this is what the royal court will be based off of, so she has an image to work with. You can also use movies as a way to help her to visualise it - if you've watched 2 or 3 movies with blacksmiths in them (pirates of the carribean and kingdom of heaven. for example. It's always orlando bloom who's the blacksmith, isn't it?), then that weekend you have a scene with a blacksmith in it, that will help her to visualise it better. Imagination can only take you so far - if you told someone "It's a carpet makers, with a loom dominating the room", this only helps anyone who knows what a loom looks like. Someone who doesn't might picture a small room with a spinning wheel, because they are filling the gaps as best they can without having to ask the embarrassing question "what's a loom?".
In the game, I recommend extended and repeated descriptions - rather than "you enter a blacksmiths" and later "he looks around the room", "he walks across the room", you can instead say "you enter a room filled with weapons on racks, with a circular pit of glowing hot coals at its edge. An anvil squats alongside it, along with a rack of hammers.", and then continue later with "the blacksmith walks across his weapon shop to the forge" as a reminder to people of where they are and who they're dealing with.
Does your spouse read fiction novels/books? What other hobbies might they have which would require imagination? Do they have any discussions about what might be happen next in fictional series on TV series?
Finding an existing way that they use their imagination might help in deciding how to approach descriptions in the game?
That's the problem. the only fantasy series she ever liked was Harry Potter and says that was a stretch. She is getting better, I just don't want her to burn out before she starts really enjoying herself.
It doesn't have to be just fantasy. Any fiction at all will usually require some amount of imagination to picture what is going on.
If you can find some pictures of things on the internet, like a mead hall or a medieval tavern (not a map, a painting or illustration) that you can show during descriptive moments that might help. Some people have trouble with the top-down view of a map, and converting that to how it might look in 3D at eye level, so artwork can help. For each monster, don't just describe them -- show the pictures from MM. If they are humans, find some artwork of what the person looks like. A man with a gray beard, a woman with braided hair, etc. There are tons of models on the internet -- you should be able to find one that you can show at the table. Even if it is just on your phone and you pass the phone around. This might help with the ability to picture things.
But you also might have to face the reality that D&D is just not for her -- I have faced this reality with RPGs before, including with my own sister. She played with me for one session to learn and with a friend of mine for a session or two, but she just didn't like it. This game is not for everyone, no matter what the internet might think -- much how first person shooters are not for everyone (me, for instance). And it's not that I can't do an FPS game... I just don't particularly enjoy them.
I am not talking about "kicking" your wife... but if she is not having fun, you shouldn't force her, and she shouldn't force herself. You should give yourselves permission to realize that this particular hobby may not be something you want to do together, and you will have to find something else to do together instead. That shouldn't be an issue, really -- not everyone has the same taste in everything, even husbands and wives or siblings.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
If you can find some pictures of things on the internet, like a mead hall or a medieval tavern (not a map, a painting or illustration) that you can show during descriptive moments that might help. Some people have trouble with the top-down view of a map, and converting that to how it might look in 3D at eye level, so artwork can help. For each monster, don't just describe them -- show the pictures from MM. If they are humans, find some artwork of what the person looks like. A man with a gray beard, a woman with braided hair, etc. There are tons of models on the internet -- you should be able to find one that you can show at the table. Even if it is just on your phone and you pass the phone around. This might help with the ability to picture things.
But you also might have to face the reality that D&D is just not for her -- I have faced this reality with RPGs before, including with my own sister. She played with me for one session to learn and with a friend of mine for a session or two, but she just didn't like it. This game is not for everyone, no matter what the internet might think -- much how first person shooters are not for everyone (me, for instance). And it's not that I can't do an FPS game... I just don't particularly enjoy them.
I am not talking about "kicking" your wife... but if she is not having fun, you shouldn't force her, and she shouldn't force herself. You should give yourselves permission to realize that this particular hobby may not be something you want to do together, and you will have to find something else to do together instead. That shouldn't be an issue, really -- not everyone has the same taste in everything, even husbands and wives or siblings.
I have to disagree with your first thought, but do agree with your second thought. Not every DM has the time nor resources to dig around the Net to find images to help an individual. As you have stated, unfortunately, not everyone likes D&D, nor can they keep up in a game. Now, if this DM's wife wants to play D&D, but feels that her husband is making her feel stupid, oh man...that is a problem I can't even begin to dive into. Many a relationship has had that problem, and I am no relationship counselor.
My mom has a condition called Aphantasia, where she genuinely cannot visualize things in her head. She thought she had bad imagination as a kid, but she just needed different techniques. That’s just a tidbit of info I had that could be relevant.
She also is new to the came, and sometimes newer players have trouble following along at first. Sometimes people who’ve been DMing longer assume new players know things that they don’t.
Stock pictures are good too. They don’t have to be exact, just good enough to give a basic idea. A character she’s connected to is important as well. I get so much more playing in games where I love my character. I got my family to draw out their characters, even if they were stick figures.
My mom has a condition called Aphantasia, where she genuinely cannot visualize things in her head. She thought she had bad imagination as a kid, but she just needed different techniques. That’s just a tidbit of info I had that could be relevant.
She also is new to the came, and sometimes newer players have trouble following along at first. Sometimes people who’ve been DMing longer assume new players know things that they don’t.
Stock pictures are good too. They don’t have to be exact, just good enough to give a basic idea. A character she’s connected to is important as well. I get so much more playing in games where I love my character. I got my family to draw out their characters, even if they were stick figures.
Good luck!
Drawing the character isn't something I thought of. Even if its a stick figure it would get them thinking.
Also consider Hero Forge. You don't have to pay or order miniatures but you could make a few simple miniatures ahead of time of things like minotaurs or goblins, use some of the pre-painted schemes and then you have it to show during the session. You can even rotate it in 3D on their site, if you want to. Might help her get a picture of what is before her.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
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I have a player that struggles to keep up with what is happening during the game. She has come to me and said she doesn't have a very good imagination. She says if she could see it it would help but there is only so much I can do. We use battle maps for combat but she struggles follow along even when out of combat. For example, there was a short inconsequential conversation between a few of the players and a blacksmith. When the blacksmith complemented her weapon she didn't understand why. I don't know how to help this player.
BTW kicking is not an option, the player is my spouse.
Give more description as you go along? Give some subtle hints.
Enjoy my magic items, spells, monsters, my race, and a few feats. And GIVE ME FEEDBACK... or else.
Like what I say?
⬐ Just press this little guy right here.
I have a player like that too, though they are not my spouse.
I would recommend looking up ways to maintain player engagement. Doing some of those tricks might help. Getting more detailed descriptions, doing distinct voices, having reference images, meaningful RP, that sort of thing. That sort of thing has helped my player. If that stuff doesn't work, be open to collaborating with your spouse and trying new things potentially outside of the game to find something that allows them to get more engaged.
Also, If they are having fun then it should be less of an issue. If they are just unable to enjoy the game without a masterwork of showmanship then maybe they shouldn't play especially if they are bringing down others as well. That is NOT saying to boot them from the game, but if they are not having fun with what you are able to reasonably prepare that is not your fault and their time might be better spend playing something more visual like A video game (Skyrim, The Witcher) or a board game (5 minute dungeon)
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"Play the game however you want to play the game. After all, your fun doesn't threaten my fun."
I doubt it is lack of imagination, she might just not understand things that the rest of the table is taking for granted. I would go back over the Blacksmith conversation just between the two of you and ask her to reply in character. So, whatever the blacksmith said, "I really like the design of your bolster, does it have a full bladed fuller?" and if her honest answer is, "I don't know what you said" then have her say, "I'm sorry, I don't know you said." just like in normal life. Your blacksmith can then say, "I was just appreciating the craftsmanship and how your blade was put together. The bolster is where the handle and the blade meet and you don't see workmanship like that around here very often, I mean, unless I did it, of course." Where she is perfectly allowed to say, "I don't know... I just bought it cause that's what they had."
Obviously I have no idea how that conversation went down. It could have been because of technical terms. It could have been that the conversation was half-meta, half in-character (as many of those kind are) and she is having trouble connecting in to the types of shops she would never go to in real life. Ask her what kind of shop she would like to go into and provide the same level of care in crafting the NPC there that you used for the blacksmith. Or even more if you are afraid that the blacksmith didn't really have much and you were winging it off the cuff. Think of the things she likes in real life and draw her in through that. The Hobby Lobby of your game world... or the best sandwich shoppe... or a local specialized vintner.
I'm also hoping that you have another female player at the table that she can connect with. It can often be difficult for a lone female to try to engage in a foreign concept that many of our D&D worlds are without someone to go along with. And when possible, add more description and ask her opinion about how things look. If all the map details are listed as N, S, E or W, try adding some landmarks, "Just past the lightning forked tree" or "the round rock by the gray cactus". And I hope you have a good mix of male and female NPCs that aren't split according to how we would normally associate roles and trades. Make the blacksmith and the ferrier in one town sisters who work on adding aesthetic marks to their items. Make the local tavern have a male waiter instead of a waitress. etc.
Again, those are just some generalities without more specifics on what happened...
Is she fairly new to D&D? If so, some of the issues might just be a matter of time as she's learning how to envision and interact with things (especially if she's admitting to not having a very good imagination). Not everybody will be good at imagining things, and I've also had a number of players over the years that struggled with this ability. However, most people improve over time as they grow accustomed to having to imagine scenes more so than seeing everything on a screen or game board.
Also, just to clarify, how engaged is she during the sessions? By they way that you describe some of the examples, it sounds like she might not be fully engaged or catching some of the details, which lends to not understanding what was going on. Again, I've been there myself with some players in the past. If she struggles with imagination, then she might not be as engaged (which might not even be intentional). If that's part of the issue, then you might need to help draw her back in.
Agree that there is only so much visual material you can provide. You are already providing battle maps, which should help. Maybe you need to use some basic maps for non-battle scenes as well? Make it easier for her to see the group's characters as they interact with your NPC(s). More work but might be worth it. Similarly, pictures of a monster or NPC might be useful as well. Even a generic image of the blacksmith as the group is interacting with him/her might give her brain something to focus on and make it easier to envision.
Taking that a step further, I've borrowed stuff form my daughters' custom bin at time to have one or two items on me when I've played out an NPC at times as well. Might be overkill to do, but I've found that it can help new and/or struggling players envision the person better if they see the DM differently when they're being that different NPC.
Maybe try printing out or drawing a reference image for each location, NPC, and monster before each setting. When one becomes important, you can hand it over the DM screen to show the players. That might help a player who finds it hard to imagine something without a visual.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
Thanks for the feedback everyone.
To answer some questions: Most of the party are brand new to dnd in general, so we are taking things slow. The last session was the first one where we really got some good rp. We do have another woman at the table who is also a newbie. At the end of the session she said that it was starting to make more sense, so I wonder if perhaps it is an experience thing, and as time goes by she will feel more comfortable.
Does your spouse read fiction novels/books? What other hobbies might they have which would require imagination? Do they have any discussions about what might be happen next in fictional series on TV series?
Finding an existing way that they use their imagination might help in deciding how to approach descriptions in the game?
That's the problem. the only fantasy series she ever liked was Harry Potter and says that was a stretch. She is getting better, I just don't want her to burn out before she starts really enjoying herself.
Maybe try a board game that is fantasy setting. That way the rules and what can be done is more narrow but the language is the same? Might help prompt general images/imagination.
All posts come with the caveat that I don't know what I'm talking about.
As you (presumably) live with her, you have a good opportunity to help her outside of the game. If you have a scene planned in a royal court next week, perhaps show her dragonsreach in Skyrim and tell her that this is what the royal court will be based off of, so she has an image to work with. You can also use movies as a way to help her to visualise it - if you've watched 2 or 3 movies with blacksmiths in them (pirates of the carribean and kingdom of heaven. for example. It's always orlando bloom who's the blacksmith, isn't it?), then that weekend you have a scene with a blacksmith in it, that will help her to visualise it better. Imagination can only take you so far - if you told someone "It's a carpet makers, with a loom dominating the room", this only helps anyone who knows what a loom looks like. Someone who doesn't might picture a small room with a spinning wheel, because they are filling the gaps as best they can without having to ask the embarrassing question "what's a loom?".
In the game, I recommend extended and repeated descriptions - rather than "you enter a blacksmiths" and later "he looks around the room", "he walks across the room", you can instead say "you enter a room filled with weapons on racks, with a circular pit of glowing hot coals at its edge. An anvil squats alongside it, along with a rack of hammers.", and then continue later with "the blacksmith walks across his weapon shop to the forge" as a reminder to people of where they are and who they're dealing with.
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It doesn't have to be just fantasy. Any fiction at all will usually require some amount of imagination to picture what is going on.
If you can find some pictures of things on the internet, like a mead hall or a medieval tavern (not a map, a painting or illustration) that you can show during descriptive moments that might help. Some people have trouble with the top-down view of a map, and converting that to how it might look in 3D at eye level, so artwork can help. For each monster, don't just describe them -- show the pictures from MM. If they are humans, find some artwork of what the person looks like. A man with a gray beard, a woman with braided hair, etc. There are tons of models on the internet -- you should be able to find one that you can show at the table. Even if it is just on your phone and you pass the phone around. This might help with the ability to picture things.
But you also might have to face the reality that D&D is just not for her -- I have faced this reality with RPGs before, including with my own sister. She played with me for one session to learn and with a friend of mine for a session or two, but she just didn't like it. This game is not for everyone, no matter what the internet might think -- much how first person shooters are not for everyone (me, for instance). And it's not that I can't do an FPS game... I just don't particularly enjoy them.
I am not talking about "kicking" your wife... but if she is not having fun, you shouldn't force her, and she shouldn't force herself. You should give yourselves permission to realize that this particular hobby may not be something you want to do together, and you will have to find something else to do together instead. That shouldn't be an issue, really -- not everyone has the same taste in everything, even husbands and wives or siblings.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I have to disagree with your first thought, but do agree with your second thought. Not every DM has the time nor resources to dig around the Net to find images to help an individual. As you have stated, unfortunately, not everyone likes D&D, nor can they keep up in a game. Now, if this DM's wife wants to play D&D, but feels that her husband is making her feel stupid, oh man...that is a problem I can't even begin to dive into. Many a relationship has had that problem, and I am no relationship counselor.
My mom has a condition called Aphantasia, where she genuinely cannot visualize things in her head. She thought she had bad imagination as a kid, but she just needed different techniques. That’s just a tidbit of info I had that could be relevant.
She also is new to the came, and sometimes newer players have trouble following along at first. Sometimes people who’ve been DMing longer assume new players know things that they don’t.
Stock pictures are good too. They don’t have to be exact, just good enough to give a basic idea. A character she’s connected to is important as well. I get so much more playing in games where I love my character. I got my family to draw out their characters, even if they were stick figures.
Good luck!
Drawing the character isn't something I thought of. Even if its a stick figure it would get them thinking.
Also consider Hero Forge. You don't have to pay or order miniatures but you could make a few simple miniatures ahead of time of things like minotaurs or goblins, use some of the pre-painted schemes and then you have it to show during the session. You can even rotate it in 3D on their site, if you want to. Might help her get a picture of what is before her.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.