After looking at the bladesinger subclass for the Wizard, I liked a lot of the concept, but I felt it lacked in some areas. I created my own variant of it, using some of the ideas, but also modifying the sub class to be more melee focused. One of the main changes removes the armor restrictions, while the wizard focuses on the main ability of the subclass etc. Now you can weave your sword mastery while in light or medium armor, so you can look or act more like a fighter, making it much better for roleplaying. Using armor masteries, or fighter focused feats can now be an option; more feats as viable options, for a more melee focused wizard, is a good thing. I also opened up enough blades to use, so that a player should be able to choose a dex or str based Spellsword as well.
One main question, do you think I should add in Heavy Armor proficiency, for a player that wants to go 100% strength based? EDIT - now added later in level
I think this sub class is pretty balanced now, but input is always welcome (or grammar corrections appreciated).
I am not sure how to link it here, but for now just look up Spellsword by Colleptic.
A Spellsword masters a tradition of wizardry that incorporates furious swordplay and spellcasting. Originally created by Dark Elves (Drow), this tradition has been adopted by non-elf practitioners, who honor and expand on the Drow ways.
In combat, a Spellsword uses a series of intricate, but furious maneuvers that chain together to devastate their opponent with attacks, which allows the Spellsword to channel magic into devastating attacks and cunning defense. Many who have observed a Spellsword at work remember the display as one of the more furious, but yet beautiful experiences in their life, a glorious chain of whirls and twirls, accompanied by furious blades and spells.
Complementing a Spellsword's melee is, of course, the standard line of Wizard spells. A Spellsword may choose magic that benefits close combat verse ranged combat. Individually Spellswords have different practices, but some of the most lethal reported to be out there weave their blades while cloaked with elemental shields, buffed with physicals augmentations and alternating melee attacks with close range damage spells.
Training in War and Blades
2nd-level Spellsword feature
You gain proficiency with light armor and medium, plus you gain proficiency with most types of sword based weapons (dagger, rapier, shortsword, and longsword).
You practice your footwork and work on your nimbleness, you also gain proficiency in the acrobatics skill if you don’t already have it.
Upon waking from a long rest, you can choose one of your blades as a focus item for your spell casting. You can do this at anytime, but you must focus your arcana on the item for 10 min. If you duel wield, you can only use one of the weapons as your main spell focus. You will need to do this once after every long rest period.
Spell Blade's Fury
2nd-level Spellsword feature
You can invoke an elven magic called Spell Blade's Fury, provided that you aren’t using a shield. It graces you with supernatural speed, agility, and focus.
You can use a bonus action to start the Spell Blade's Fury, which lasts for 1 minute. It ends early if you are incapacitated, if you use a shield, or if you are unconscious. You can also dismiss the Spell Blade's Fury at any time (no action required).
While your Spell Blade's Fury is active, you gain the following benefits:
You gain a bonus to your AC equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of +1).
Your walking speed increases by 10 feet.
You have advantage on Dexterity (Acrobatics) checks.
You gain a bonus to any Constitution saving throw you make to maintain your concentration on a spell. The bonus equals your Intelligence modifier (minimum of +1).
You can use this feature a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, and you regain all expended uses of it when you finish a long rest. As of the 14th level you will be able to use Spell Blade's Fury for 10 min.
Two is Better Than One
6th-level Spellsword feature
You can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. Moreover, you can cast one of your cantrips in place of one of those attacks. If you choose to cast magic at any spell slot level, other than a cantrip as your action that round, you forgo all your melee attacks.
Through practice you become proficient with Double-Bladed Scimitars and two handed Greatswords.
Fighting Style
10th-level Spellblade feature
After spending hours training and adventuring, you develop a fighting style. You can choose an option from the Fighting Style class feature.
You have also learnt to use heavy armor, you gain proficiency with heavy armor.
Defense
Dueling
Great Weapon Fighting
Thrown Weapon Fighting
Two-Weapon Fighting
Prolonged Fury
14th-level Spellsword feature
You can now focus on Spell Blade's Fury for 10 min.
This is way more complicated and broken on top of a complicated and broken subclass.
Explain, where do you think it is broken, it may assist. It is not more complicated that the original or War Magic imo.
well first off, you did not take out the parts that made it incredibly broken anyway.Second,the capstone simply breaks the game know that green flame blade exists.The original extra attack was already broken it did not need a third.imbue blade actually makes the subclass somewhat weaker... until the capstone.The changes made to extra attack allow for more attacks which increases the damage output massifely etc.Then it also gives you the tough feat pretty much for free.This is honestly a hillriously broken sub.
and to prove it is more complicated every feature here takes at least 2 paragraphs.In the original only one feature had to use a second paragraph.Additonally,the class has some many on going effects extraneous powers that I had to read it 5 times to find all the features (and thats with some smart formatting to seperate effects).
well first off, you did not take out the parts that made it incredibly broken anyway. Bladesinging is not incredibly broken, I just lacking...it needs refining. As I played bladesinger out in scenarios, I found I was often doing less damage, since choosing to go melee forgoes using all the good spells. I did find it made the mage more useful, and able to pick and choose where to use magic etc. In fact for most level ranges 3-17, I found a Fighter/Wizard Multiclass was doing way more overall damage than the Bladesinger. Later on I was missing out on some of the Wizard masteries and lvl 9 spells etc.
Second,the capstone simply breaks the game know that green flame blade exists.The original extra attack was already broken it did not need a third.imbue blade actually makes the subclass somewhat weaker... until the capstone. Green Flame Blade...I have never used, so no comments there.Ok, so you think the third is not required, thanks, that is what I am looking for. I do not 100% agree with the second attack as broken, it is necessary, especially if roleplaying this class. I may, revamp this entirely...but I want to see how this plays out for a bit.
I may change the attack options to mimic a rogue more, and swap the extra attacks for Fighter options like Blood Hunter does, then one could select using two weapons and get the benefit of using the off hand, or go entirely another route and go two handed etc.
The changes made to extra attack allow for more attacks which increases the damage output massifely etc.Then it also gives you the tough feat pretty much for free.This is honestly a hillriously broken sub. Hilarious or not, making sub classes is fun and now that we can do it to share with friends, is just amazing. Balancing them out is tough, especially when you get locked in on ideas, hence why community help is great. When I was rolling this out, even with blades imbued with two attacks, the damage out put is still far below most other melee builds. As for the tough for free, that is a valid point, forcing a wizard to burn a feat slot, if they want more hps, may be a better option, I will think on it.
A couple extra sentences is too much, man how times have changed heh. I have some comments/questions above in red.
1.it is well accepted that bladesinger is the least thought through and perhaps (this bits a tad debatable) the strongest wizard sub.Also if you think your missing anything going melee your the kinda guy who thinks fireball is the only good combat spell.
2.nothing to say here
3.would not know,Only made over 300 pieces of homebrew and published (almost all of which you can see down below in my sig).Given a full dex or strength or dex build,this thing will deal WAY more damage (only 1 attack per round short of fighter, plus the same bonuses,plus green flame blade damage,plus Imbue weapon,) then a fighter could.Both of these scenerios run without an expediture of limited resources.Given resource expenditiure you can cast haste and still out perform fighters actions surges by massive margin.The only area this does even marginally worse at is defense where some resource expenditure is needed to go far at all.
The Fire Ball comment, uh good one...? Anyhow...at least I dragged out some of your knowledge, I hope assisting someone did not hurt to bad. I will take a closer look at the mechanics of Green Flame closer, I do not think it would/should stack, and I can make it that way...if I keep it as a option that is.
I will check out some of your builds, they better be good!
The Fire Ball comment, uh good one...? Anyhow...at least I dragged out some of your knowledge, I hope assisting someone did not hurt to bad. I will take a closer look at the mechanics of Green Flame closer, I do not think it would/should stack, and I can make it that way...if I keep it as a option that is.
I will check out some of your builds, they better be good!
They are,well most of them stay away from the A subclasses(as in ones that start with the letter A) they get pretty shitty
Okay, other than this being just blatantly overpowered, no subclasses just give you a free feat. The feat is stacked on top of an already strong class feature. The feat has no purpose for existing other than extra stuff.
Okay, other than this being just blatantly overpowered, no subclasses just give you a free feat. The feat is stacked on top of an already strong class feature. The feat has no purpose for existing other than extra stuff.
Thanks, I will re-think the feats for sure.
I just play tested one of the rogue sub-class from the above poster, a Rogue that can teleport every round, which then allows sneak attacks every round and others on you have disadvantage, can sneak attack unlimitedly per round, can teleport again and make two more attacks, and finally you can eventually take two turns in one round...ok...I guess my understanding of overpowered is different...maybe?
This is going somewhere though, so back to this sub-class, I am playing this out, the 3rd attack is for sure too much, it will be removed, but other than that...I am not out dps'in other normal builds or especially some multi-class builds melee wise when I test. At the lower levels, +3 modifier/longsword 1d8 melee results:
5+3+3+1 = 12
1+3+4+3 = 11
1+3+3+2 = 9
3+3+4+1 = 11
Select any of those 2 attacks, the melee damage is very minor...and for the above rolls/scenarios I am assuming duel wielding, and the Wizard had the time to imbue both blades before battle. "IF" only one bladed was imbued or they were only using one blade, then the damage goes down even more. Even with a extra attack from haste, the Wizard damage is still low. In most cases as the battle progresses, the imbuements would only be on the 1st hit leaving only 1d8+modifier for the next one or two. Even if I forgoing one of those three hasted attacks to cast a cantrip, to use that Green Blade, I lost one melee attack for magic damage, which when I test that out, brings the damage averages up to a somewhat more completive level, but nothing out doing a hasted Barbarian with smites.
Outside of the feats and tough, can someone show me numerically where it is OP?
I also just thought of something to balance this and Bladesinger, when attacking and concentrating, you need to role a concentration check for each attack landed?
Okay, other than this being just blatantly overpowered, no subclasses just give you a free feat. The feat is stacked on top of an already strong class feature. The feat has no purpose for existing other than extra stuff.
Thanks, I will re-think the feats for sure.
I just play tested one of the rogue sub-class from the above poster, a Rogue that can teleport every round, which then allows sneak attacks every round and others on you have disadvantage, can sneak attack unlimitedly per round, can teleport again and make two more attacks, and finally you can eventually take two turns in one round...ok...I guess my understanding of overpowered is different...maybe?
This is going somewhere though, so back to this sub-class, I am playing this out, the 3rd attack is for sure too much, it will be removed, but other than that...I am not out dps'in other normal builds or especially some multi-class builds melee wise when I test. At the lower levels, +3 modifier/longsword 1d8 melee results:
5+3+3+1 = 12
1+3+4+3 = 11
1+3+3+2 = 9
3+3+4+1 = 11
Select any of those 2 attacks, the melee damage is very minor...and for the above rolls/scenarios I am assuming duel wielding, and the Wizard had the time to imbue both blades before battle. "IF" only one bladed was imbued or they were only using one blade, then the damage goes down even more. Even with a extra attack from haste, the Wizard damage is still low. In most cases as the battle progresses, the imbuements would only be on the 1st hit leaving only 1d8+modifier for the next one or two. Even if I forgoing one of those three hasted attacks to cast a cantrip, to use that Green Blade, I lost one melee attack for magic damage, which when I test that out, brings the damage averages up to a somewhat more completive level, but nothing out doing a hasted Barbarian with smites.
Outside of the feats and tough, can someone show me numerically where it is OP?
I litterally have.First off that is litterally the same damage fighters doing.Second the existance of spellsword cantrips,The imbued weapon
I have to point out the green flame blade I have been mentioning does a singular sword strike plus magic damage.Not either or both.Normally this is balanced by the one sword attack and riskiness of it.But this just throws it out the door.It does straight nearly twice the damage as fighter.And your calculations are just straight wrong imbued strikes scales with level dealing 4d4 PER ATTACK at 20th level which is an added 21 or so.Which accounts for a good portion of this damage. so with just one strike let's what we can do.We'll use green flame blade for this.
5 base attack+31 from green flame+11 from imbue weapons and that's it I think.
now with no limited resource use we outdamaged a basic dps fighter by about 4 damage.Except,This is in one attack we can do that a second time for an extra 6 and 7.Then maybe a third time for even more damage.This deals 35 more damage then a standard dps fighter (more then 70% more) without heavy optimization.We can still increase our attack mod and the damage stat I used for fighter assumes plus weapons.This means with some optimization you can deal 45 more damage then base fighter which is nearly double the fighter with only +1 swords.Now because you made the mistake of including haste in your example I will do.This will allow us to green flame blade again dealing 10 plus 41 plus 9.If optimization is here throw in another extra 3 damage again.
as for your fix it's stupid (it does nothing do address anything I have said is unbalanced besides nerfing haste,and completely wrecks the actual wizard side,which makes it a crappy hotfix that does nothing but hurt).A fix would be reducing imbues scaling and/or giving it EK style spell swording instead of old BS spellswording.
As for chaos striker This is indeed shit,however it's old shit I cobbled together for a group project and feel no need to repair now that's over.
Okay, other than this being just blatantly overpowered, no subclasses just give you a free feat. The feat is stacked on top of an already strong class feature. The feat has no purpose for existing other than extra stuff.
Thanks, I will re-think the feats for sure.
I just play tested one of the rogue sub-class from the above poster, a Rogue that can teleport every round, which then allows sneak attacks every round and others on you have disadvantage, can sneak attack unlimitedly per round, can teleport again and make two more attacks, and finally you can eventually take two turns in one round...ok...I guess my understanding of overpowered is different...maybe?
This is going somewhere though, so back to this sub-class, I am playing this out, the 3rd attack is for sure too much, it will be removed, but other than that...I am not out dps'in other normal builds or especially some multi-class builds melee wise when I test. At the lower levels, +3 modifier/longsword 1d8 melee results:
5+3+3+1 = 12
1+3+4+3 = 11
1+3+3+2 = 9
3+3+4+1 = 11
Select any of those 2 attacks, the melee damage is very minor...and for the above rolls/scenarios I am assuming duel wielding, and the Wizard had the time to imbue both blades before battle. "IF" only one bladed was imbued or they were only using one blade, then the damage goes down even more. Even with a extra attack from haste, the Wizard damage is still low. In most cases as the battle progresses, the imbuements would only be on the 1st hit leaving only 1d8+modifier for the next one or two. Even if I forgoing one of those three hasted attacks to cast a cantrip, to use that Green Blade, I lost one melee attack for magic damage, which when I test that out, brings the damage averages up to a somewhat more completive level, but nothing out doing a hasted Barbarian with smites.
Outside of the feats and tough, can someone show me numerically where it is OP?
I litterally have.First off that is litterally the same damage fighters doing.Second the existance of spellsword cantrips,The imbued weapon
I have to point out the green flame blade I have been mentioning does a singular sword strike plus magic damage.Not either or both.Normally this is balanced by the one sword attack and riskiness of it.But this just throws it out the door.It does straight nearly twice the damage as fighter.And your calculations are just straight wrong imbued strikes scales with level dealing 4d4 PER ATTACK at 20th level which is an added 22 or so.Which accounts for a good portion of this damage. so with just one strike let's what we can do.We'll use green flame blade for this.
7 base attack+37 from green flame+11 from imbue weapons and that's it I think.
now with no limited resource use we outdamaged a basic dps fighter by about 4 damage.Except,This is in one attack we can do that a second time for an extra 6 and 9.Then maybe a third time for even more damage.This deals 35 more damage then a standard dps fighter (more then 70% more) without heavy optimization.We can still increase our attack mod and the damage stat I used for fighter assumes plus weapons.This means with some optimization you can deal 45 more damage then base fighter which is nearly double.
Couple points, I mentioned my rolls were of a lower level 2d4, as all classes at 20 are amazing, and rarely get there from my end of things... so I am focusing on the lower level balancing 1st, which should fix the upper levels. Also, I already mentioned, I will not be allowing imbuement to stack...still working on that. Just like one cannot stack two smite spells (well at least how we play you cannot). In this case I will word it so that a player can not stack other "casted" elemental imbuements, the newer element will just overwrite.
So, even if one uses Green Flame, which is not a spell I use, so let's say the player is a min/maxer vs a casual roleplayer and uses it. At max level, and if they somehow (or assume because they are min/maxer) have maxed their INT and whatever their weapon modifier stat is, most of the damage is coming from Green Flame, and not using just max damage, actually rolling it...it is very variable.
Now this is assuming only using haste...but not all roleplayers are going to, hopefully, not be min/maxers and good DM's will make scenarios that will make the Wizard use other concentrations. So the min/max scenario only competes with other melee based characters with haste up...most of the time it is one imbued/Green strike and one base strike. That said, at level 20, I am still not out dpsing a fighter with 4 attacks and weapon master feats. If we are min/maxing, then the fight def has imbuements/magic on him, because that is just what those types of people do.
I have some new ideas now though, and I like the notion of concentration checks per hit landed...I am going play with that concept a little bit, so gona work on some changes...
In the builder, I built a Warrior using great weapon master like most builds (no subclass for extra goodies on purpose), and my Spellsword. I used Green Flame Sword and haste, because that is where most of the above debate is (seriously, the game fix for that spell is to make it a normal spell and not a cantrip).
Maxed damage, without rolls to hit
Rolls to hit and rolls for all damage and CRITS count (Target to hit has 19 AC and they get 5 rounds at it. )
Scenario 1 (just one maxed round in the builder)
Hasted Wizard always does 74 with Green Flame and 50 without. Damage can spike up for one round, if a pre-buff is allowed, but I did not use for this scenario.
Normal Unbuffed Warrior does 68 stock and 108 great weapon master.
Scenario 2
Wizard (has a way lower melee attack modifier and missed often, that is important to note) - did a total of 104 - no crits :(
Normal Unbuffed Warrior (even when using great weapon master, only missed once per round, except two rounds missed twice) - did a total of 184 and 310 (with great weapon master) - two crits :) ***note the 184 damage with the misses from the -5 modifier from GWM...so technically there would have been more hits and more damage***
The main reason for doing this is, the Wizard can only keep up in fantasy maxed scenarios, in which Green Blade lands with very high roles, and with haste. The warrior even with no subclass, and not adding in the GWM, still runs away with the damage. After doing the above I just did random rolls in the beyond builder and at no point could I come close to the Fighter with the Wizard melee wise. Once and a while the Wizard would surprise with a good damage round, but the warrior consistently won out. Now...once I added a Warrior Subclass, GWM, Pole Arm Mastery and more, well the Warrior just took off.
It is all food for thought from the above posts helping with the build out...
I'd say the main issue is that there's no consistent thematic concept besides "Bladesinger (except not really)". Like, you're still trying to have it be Elven magic (except saying it's Drow so it's not the same), but I don't see anything particularly "Drow" about the features. Especially the Heavy Armor and Greatswords.
And the Spell Blade Fury is literally just Bladesong but without the no medium/heavy armor and one-handed attack limitations. The Acrobatics advantage seems out of place for something called "Fury". (Athletics would make somewhat more sense.)
Those were just a few examples. At any rate, it doesn't feel more interesting than something you could accomplish by multiclassing Eldritch Knight and Wizard.
(I also don't like the idea of forcing saves for spell concentration for you make weapon hits as a nerf.)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
Well, you are on to my main reason for making this, which I touch on in the 1st post. I thought Bladesinger was not quite right, nor was War Magic. The attacks, including the old third attack was based on the Eldritch Knight, so yes you are correct. I did in fact multi-class Fighter/Wizard and Eldritch Fighter/Wizard in the past to build similar characters. In my first non-shared version, lvl 14 opens up a Flurry, which was modelled off of the Ranger' s Subclass multi-attack etc. It was definitely to OP when I tested it. The Drow part could become more generic, when I started this it had all sorts of DIM light and shadow stuff, it does not anymore, so that is really just a left over.
I agree with your nerf comment, it is why I did not put in anywhere just yet.
War Magic and Bladesinger are close to my ideas, but not quite there, this and a War Mage are in my main building phases right now. One of them I will keep, this one is just to feel out balancing.
I guess the question becomes, how do you want to play? Because Wizard is a squishy class that really isn't focused on dealing damage in melee. Even the Bladesong seems more intended for laying down a concentration spell to buff friends/debuff enemies (or control the field) before you dash in and out of the fray to deal some extra damage, just with better ability to get in & out of there without taking hits and dropping concentration. It's using INT to shore up some of what you lack in DEX.
(Edit: It also seems like much of the point of limiting the Bladesong to one-handed attacks is so that you have the other hand free for casting.)
Heck, even the melee cantrips added expressly for Bladesingers (Booming Blade, Green-Flame Blade, Lightning Lure, Sword Burst) have more to do with battlefield control and trying to stay out of the thick of it. It's really not about trying to lay on maximum damage.
On the other hand, my Arcane Trickster Rogue with Mobile feat will get some great synergy once she takes Wizard 2 Bladesinger for melee dancing and stabbing... mwahaha...
I have a Monk/Bladesinger built just for fun, never played it...but I think it is going to destroy. Also, mocked up a Rogue Swashy/Bladesinger...being able to use sneak attack all the time if no one is around your target, and instead of Haste put up Far Step while Bladesong is up, sounds like a fun time! Here is the thing, the above debate was all about min/maxing, but it did help out a bit. I would hope most people are more included to have fun with their characters and use different spells, not just looking for ultimate damage.
Here is my thoughts on 1 vs 2 handed weapons (just so you know I train with most HEMA weapons and used to fight many longsword tournaments, not that any reality comes into play here LOL). Even if holding a two handed weapon, you can easily take on hand off to cast. Technically Wizard staffs can be two handed, if you think about it...one handed or two handed should not matter for casting, just duel wielding. In that case, you need a focus item for casting imo. Wizards are really only squishy due to lack of hit points; toss on some med armor and med armor mastery and take tough, that changes everything...though it sacrifices some other more standard Wizard Feats, but that is the fun of roleplaying...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Hello,
After looking at the bladesinger subclass for the Wizard, I liked a lot of the concept, but I felt it lacked in some areas. I created my own variant of it, using some of the ideas, but also modifying the sub class to be more melee focused. One of the main changes removes the armor restrictions, while the wizard focuses on the main ability of the subclass etc. Now you can weave your sword mastery while in light or medium armor, so you can look or act more like a fighter, making it much better for roleplaying. Using armor masteries, or fighter focused feats can now be an option; more feats as viable options, for a more melee focused wizard, is a good thing. I also opened up enough blades to use, so that a player should be able to choose a dex or str based Spellsword as well.
One main question, do you think I should add in Heavy Armor proficiency, for a player that wants to go 100% strength based? EDIT - now added later in level
I think this sub class is pretty balanced now, but input is always welcome (or grammar corrections appreciated).
I am not sure how to link it here, but for now just look up Spellsword by Colleptic.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Features pasted below: UPDATE 2 PASTED BELOW NOW
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A Spellsword masters a tradition of wizardry that incorporates furious swordplay and spellcasting. Originally created by Dark Elves (Drow), this tradition has been adopted by non-elf practitioners, who honor and expand on the Drow ways.
In combat, a Spellsword uses a series of intricate, but furious maneuvers that chain together to devastate their opponent with attacks, which allows the Spellsword to channel magic into devastating attacks and cunning defense. Many who have observed a Spellsword at work remember the display as one of the more furious, but yet beautiful experiences in their life, a glorious chain of whirls and twirls, accompanied by furious blades and spells.
Complementing a Spellsword's melee is, of course, the standard line of Wizard spells. A Spellsword may choose magic that benefits close combat verse ranged combat. Individually Spellswords have different practices, but some of the most lethal reported to be out there weave their blades while cloaked with elemental shields, buffed with physicals augmentations and alternating melee attacks with close range damage spells.
Training in War and Blades
2nd-level Spellsword feature
You gain proficiency with light armor and medium, plus you gain proficiency with most types of sword based weapons (dagger, rapier, shortsword, and longsword).
You practice your footwork and work on your nimbleness, you also gain proficiency in the acrobatics skill if you don’t already have it.
Upon waking from a long rest, you can choose one of your blades as a focus item for your spell casting. You can do this at anytime, but you must focus your arcana on the item for 10 min. If you duel wield, you can only use one of the weapons as your main spell focus. You will need to do this once after every long rest period.
Spell Blade's Fury
2nd-level Spellsword feature
You can invoke an elven magic called Spell Blade's Fury, provided that you aren’t using a shield. It graces you with supernatural speed, agility, and focus.
You can use a bonus action to start the Spell Blade's Fury, which lasts for 1 minute. It ends early if you are incapacitated, if you use a shield, or if you are unconscious. You can also dismiss the Spell Blade's Fury at any time (no action required).
While your Spell Blade's Fury is active, you gain the following benefits:
You can use this feature a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, and you regain all expended uses of it when you finish a long rest. As of the 14th level you will be able to use Spell Blade's Fury for 10 min.
Two is Better Than One
6th-level Spellsword feature
You can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. Moreover, you can cast one of your cantrips in place of one of those attacks. If you choose to cast magic at any spell slot level, other than a cantrip as your action that round, you forgo all your melee attacks.
Through practice you become proficient with Double-Bladed Scimitars and two handed Greatswords.
Fighting Style
10th-level Spellblade feature
After spending hours training and adventuring, you develop a fighting style. You can choose an option from the Fighting Style class feature.
You have also learnt to use heavy armor, you gain proficiency with heavy armor.
Prolonged Fury
14th-level Spellsword feature
You can now focus on Spell Blade's Fury for 10 min.
This is way more complicated and broken on top of a complicated and broken subclass.
Check out my homebrew subclasses spells magic items feats monsters races
i am a sauce priest
help create a world here
A very quick fix (and example of why it's best to wait before publishing something since you can't delete once it's published):
Spell Blade's Furry -> Spell Blade's Fury
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
Thanks.
Explain, where do you think it is broken, it may assist. It is not more complicated that the original or War Magic imo.
The only area I may back off on is the third attack, as the original only has two attacks as an option.
well first off, you did not take out the parts that made it incredibly broken anyway.Second,the capstone simply breaks the game know that green flame blade exists.The original extra attack was already broken it did not need a third.imbue blade actually makes the subclass somewhat weaker... until the capstone.The changes made to extra attack allow for more attacks which increases the damage output massifely etc.Then it also gives you the tough feat pretty much for free.This is honestly a hillriously broken sub.
and to prove it is more complicated every feature here takes at least 2 paragraphs.In the original only one feature had to use a second paragraph.Additonally,the class has some many on going effects extraneous powers that I had to read it 5 times to find all the features (and thats with some smart formatting to seperate effects).
Check out my homebrew subclasses spells magic items feats monsters races
i am a sauce priest
help create a world here
A couple extra sentences is too much, man how times have changed heh. I have some comments/questions above in red.
1.it is well accepted that bladesinger is the least thought through and perhaps (this bits a tad debatable) the strongest wizard sub.Also if you think your missing anything going melee your the kinda guy who thinks fireball is the only good combat spell.
2.nothing to say here
3.would not know,Only made over 300 pieces of homebrew and published (almost all of which you can see down below in my sig).Given a full dex or strength or dex build,this thing will deal WAY more damage (only 1 attack per round short of fighter, plus the same bonuses,plus green flame blade damage,plus Imbue weapon,) then a fighter could.Both of these scenerios run without an expediture of limited resources.Given resource expenditiure you can cast haste and still out perform fighters actions surges by massive margin.The only area this does even marginally worse at is defense where some resource expenditure is needed to go far at all.
Check out my homebrew subclasses spells magic items feats monsters races
i am a sauce priest
help create a world here
The Fire Ball comment, uh good one...? Anyhow...at least I dragged out some of your knowledge, I hope assisting someone did not hurt to bad. I will take a closer look at the mechanics of Green Flame closer, I do not think it would/should stack, and I can make it that way...if I keep it as a option that is.
I will check out some of your builds, they better be good!
They are,well most of them stay away from the A subclasses(as in ones that start with the letter A) they get pretty shitty
Check out my homebrew subclasses spells magic items feats monsters races
i am a sauce priest
help create a world here
Okay, other than this being just blatantly overpowered, no subclasses just give you a free feat. The feat is stacked on top of an already strong class feature. The feat has no purpose for existing other than extra stuff.
Thanks, I will re-think the feats for sure.
I just play tested one of the rogue sub-class from the above poster, a Rogue that can teleport every round, which then allows sneak attacks every round and others on you have disadvantage, can sneak attack unlimitedly per round, can teleport again and make two more attacks, and finally you can eventually take two turns in one round...ok...I guess my understanding of overpowered is different...maybe?
This is going somewhere though, so back to this sub-class, I am playing this out, the 3rd attack is for sure too much, it will be removed, but other than that...I am not out dps'in other normal builds or especially some multi-class builds melee wise when I test. At the lower levels, +3 modifier/longsword 1d8 melee results:
Select any of those 2 attacks, the melee damage is very minor...and for the above rolls/scenarios I am assuming duel wielding, and the Wizard had the time to imbue both blades before battle. "IF" only one bladed was imbued or they were only using one blade, then the damage goes down even more. Even with a extra attack from haste, the Wizard damage is still low. In most cases as the battle progresses, the imbuements would only be on the 1st hit leaving only 1d8+modifier for the next one or two. Even if I forgoing one of those three hasted attacks to cast a cantrip, to use that Green Blade, I lost one melee attack for magic damage, which when I test that out, brings the damage averages up to a somewhat more completive level, but nothing out doing a hasted Barbarian with smites.
Outside of the feats and tough, can someone show me numerically where it is OP?
I also just thought of something to balance this and Bladesinger, when attacking and concentrating, you need to role a concentration check for each attack landed?
I litterally have.First off that is litterally the same damage fighters doing.Second the existance of spellsword cantrips,The imbued weapon
I have to point out the green flame blade I have been mentioning does a singular sword strike plus magic damage.Not either or both.Normally this is balanced by the one sword attack and riskiness of it.But this just throws it out the door.It does straight nearly twice the damage as fighter.And your calculations are just straight wrong imbued strikes scales with level dealing 4d4 PER ATTACK at 20th level which is an added 21 or so.Which accounts for a good portion of this damage. so with just one strike let's what we can do.We'll use green flame blade for this.
5 base attack+31 from green flame+11 from imbue weapons and that's it I think.
now with no limited resource use we outdamaged a basic dps fighter by about 4 damage.Except,This is in one attack we can do that a second time for an extra 6 and 7.Then maybe a third time for even more damage.This deals 35 more damage then a standard dps fighter (more then 70% more) without heavy optimization.We can still increase our attack mod and the damage stat I used for fighter assumes plus weapons.This means with some optimization you can deal 45 more damage then base fighter which is nearly double the fighter with only +1 swords.Now because you made the mistake of including haste in your example I will do.This will allow us to green flame blade again dealing 10 plus 41 plus 9.If optimization is here throw in another extra 3 damage again.
as for your fix it's stupid (it does nothing do address anything I have said is unbalanced besides nerfing haste,and completely wrecks the actual wizard side,which makes it a crappy hotfix that does nothing but hurt).A fix would be reducing imbues scaling and/or giving it EK style spell swording instead of old BS spellswording.
As for chaos striker This is indeed shit,however it's old shit I cobbled together for a group project and feel no need to repair now that's over.
Check out my homebrew subclasses spells magic items feats monsters races
i am a sauce priest
help create a world here
Couple points, I mentioned my rolls were of a lower level 2d4, as all classes at 20 are amazing, and rarely get there from my end of things... so I am focusing on the lower level balancing 1st, which should fix the upper levels. Also, I already mentioned, I will not be allowing imbuement to stack...still working on that. Just like one cannot stack two smite spells (well at least how we play you cannot). In this case I will word it so that a player can not stack other "casted" elemental imbuements, the newer element will just overwrite.
So, even if one uses Green Flame, which is not a spell I use, so let's say the player is a min/maxer vs a casual roleplayer and uses it. At max level, and if they somehow (or assume because they are min/maxer) have maxed their INT and whatever their weapon modifier stat is, most of the damage is coming from Green Flame, and not using just max damage, actually rolling it...it is very variable.
Now this is assuming only using haste...but not all roleplayers are going to, hopefully, not be min/maxers and good DM's will make scenarios that will make the Wizard use other concentrations. So the min/max scenario only competes with other melee based characters with haste up...most of the time it is one imbued/Green strike and one base strike. That said, at level 20, I am still not out dpsing a fighter with 4 attacks and weapon master feats. If we are min/maxing, then the fight def has imbuements/magic on him, because that is just what those types of people do.
I have some new ideas now though, and I like the notion of concentration checks per hit landed...I am going play with that concept a little bit, so gona work on some changes...
EDIT:
In the builder, I built a Warrior using great weapon master like most builds (no subclass for extra goodies on purpose), and my Spellsword. I used Green Flame Sword and haste, because that is where most of the above debate is (seriously, the game fix for that spell is to make it a normal spell and not a cantrip).
Scenario 1 (just one maxed round in the builder)
Scenario 2
The main reason for doing this is, the Wizard can only keep up in fantasy maxed scenarios, in which Green Blade lands with very high roles, and with haste. The warrior even with no subclass, and not adding in the GWM, still runs away with the damage. After doing the above I just did random rolls in the beyond builder and at no point could I come close to the Fighter with the Wizard melee wise. Once and a while the Wizard would surprise with a good damage round, but the warrior consistently won out. Now...once I added a Warrior Subclass, GWM, Pole Arm Mastery and more, well the Warrior just took off.
It is all food for thought from the above posts helping with the build out...
UPDATE NOW PASTED IN THE ORGINAL POSTING. Still a work in progress...
I'd say the main issue is that there's no consistent thematic concept besides "Bladesinger (except not really)". Like, you're still trying to have it be Elven magic (except saying it's Drow so it's not the same), but I don't see anything particularly "Drow" about the features. Especially the Heavy Armor and Greatswords.
And the Spell Blade Fury is literally just Bladesong but without the no medium/heavy armor and one-handed attack limitations. The Acrobatics advantage seems out of place for something called "Fury". (Athletics would make somewhat more sense.)
Those were just a few examples. At any rate, it doesn't feel more interesting than something you could accomplish by multiclassing Eldritch Knight and Wizard.
(I also don't like the idea of forcing saves for spell concentration for you make weapon hits as a nerf.)
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
Well, you are on to my main reason for making this, which I touch on in the 1st post. I thought Bladesinger was not quite right, nor was War Magic. The attacks, including the old third attack was based on the Eldritch Knight, so yes you are correct. I did in fact multi-class Fighter/Wizard and Eldritch Fighter/Wizard in the past to build similar characters. In my first non-shared version, lvl 14 opens up a Flurry, which was modelled off of the Ranger' s Subclass multi-attack etc. It was definitely to OP when I tested it. The Drow part could become more generic, when I started this it had all sorts of DIM light and shadow stuff, it does not anymore, so that is really just a left over.
I agree with your nerf comment, it is why I did not put in anywhere just yet.
War Magic and Bladesinger are close to my ideas, but not quite there, this and a War Mage are in my main building phases right now. One of them I will keep, this one is just to feel out balancing.
Anyhow, it is getting there, thanks!
I guess the question becomes, how do you want to play? Because Wizard is a squishy class that really isn't focused on dealing damage in melee. Even the Bladesong seems more intended for laying down a concentration spell to buff friends/debuff enemies (or control the field) before you dash in and out of the fray to deal some extra damage, just with better ability to get in & out of there without taking hits and dropping concentration. It's using INT to shore up some of what you lack in DEX.
(Edit: It also seems like much of the point of limiting the Bladesong to one-handed attacks is so that you have the other hand free for casting.)
Heck, even the melee cantrips added expressly for Bladesingers (Booming Blade, Green-Flame Blade, Lightning Lure, Sword Burst) have more to do with battlefield control and trying to stay out of the thick of it. It's really not about trying to lay on maximum damage.
On the other hand, my Arcane Trickster Rogue with Mobile feat will get some great synergy once she takes Wizard 2 Bladesinger for melee dancing and stabbing... mwahaha...
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
I have a Monk/Bladesinger built just for fun, never played it...but I think it is going to destroy. Also, mocked up a Rogue Swashy/Bladesinger...being able to use sneak attack all the time if no one is around your target, and instead of Haste put up Far Step while Bladesong is up, sounds like a fun time! Here is the thing, the above debate was all about min/maxing, but it did help out a bit. I would hope most people are more included to have fun with their characters and use different spells, not just looking for ultimate damage.
Here is my thoughts on 1 vs 2 handed weapons (just so you know I train with most HEMA weapons and used to fight many longsword tournaments, not that any reality comes into play here LOL). Even if holding a two handed weapon, you can easily take on hand off to cast. Technically Wizard staffs can be two handed, if you think about it...one handed or two handed should not matter for casting, just duel wielding. In that case, you need a focus item for casting imo. Wizards are really only squishy due to lack of hit points; toss on some med armor and med armor mastery and take tough, that changes everything...though it sacrifices some other more standard Wizard Feats, but that is the fun of roleplaying...