Hey guys. Any suggestions on this? Trying to raise the monk's DPR in early levels without breaking the game.
The text on the above image is not the most updated version. I'm keeping it so the other users' comments don't lose meaning, but the current text for this subclass can be found here:
I was waiting to see if others would respond first, since I haven't played monk. Since nobody has posted, I'll give my feedback. I really like the idea of a heavy-weapons monk.
Initial subclass text: Why the stat, skill, and anti-skill requirements? 13 strength is a huge thing to ask of a monk, who is already regarded as stretched too thin on ability scores, especially since strength isn't doing anything in this subclass' features. Why is Athletics required instead of given? Why are monks banned from the subclass if they have tool proficiencies?
Dedicated Arsenal: This needs some active features. All you get is bigger beat-sticks. What can this monk *do* different from any other monk? Also, I really don't see the 11th level feature having any use outside of extremely rare circumstances.
Pendulum Strike: Giving advantage against multiple targets for a full round sounds too powerful.
Defensive Stance: So, a buffed Patient Defense for twice the normal ki. Seems underwhelming this late in the game. Also, PD is a bonus action, not a reaction. If this was meant to be it's own thing and you just goofed some copy-paste: 2 AC for a reaction is still a bit weak. The first level spell Shield grants a +5.
Hi! Thanks very much for the insights and breakdown! This is a WIP, so I reckon there's a lot to balance. Going point by point:
Initial subclass text: Why the stat, skill, and anti-skill requirements? 13 strength is a huge thing to ask of a monk, who is already regarded as stretched too thin on ability scores, especially since strength isn't doing anything in this subclass' features. Why is Athletics required instead of given? Why are monks banned from the subclass if they have tool proficiencies?
My idea here was to establish a physical lower bar that the monk needs to have achieved to be able to use the DEX modifier for heavy weapons attack and damage. In my DPR semi-educated guesses (I wouldn't call it calculations just yet XD), giving the monk access to heavy weapons felt it warranted some restrictions. The tool proficiency thing is mainly for flavor. Monks of this subclass are laser focused and study nothing but weapons. I feel it only really affects RP.
There's also a matter of balance: you have to choose a dedicated heavy weapon to be considered a monk weapon, but, in the course of a game, you might be disarmed or lose that particular weapon. If there's another heavy weapon you can pick up from the battlefield or that you kept on your inventory as an alternative, a minimal +1 mod for STR assures you can still be partially effective with any heavy weapon you might have to settle for before your next short rest. Could be a STR 12 demand for this purpose, though.
Scrap all that? How would you do it?
EDIT: The image of my original post is out of date. I have posted the direct link to the homebrewery file in the first comment. The current text of this subclass restrictions read like: "Monks who wish to join this Monastic Tradition must be proficient in the Athletics Skill and have a STR score of 12 or higher. Monks of the Master of Arms tradition have proficiency with shortswords and martial weapons with the heavy property instead of simple weapons. Monks in this monastic tradition cannot be proficient in any tool except Smith's Tools and Woodcarver's Tools".
I'm making it even harder for this character by removing simple weapons proficiency, making it dependant on heavy weapons. I feel this fits the flavor and gives the character tactical depth. What is your opinion?
Dedicated Arsenal: This needs some active features. All you get is bigger beat-sticks. What can this monk *do* different from any other monk? Also, I really don't see the 11th level feature having any use outside of extremely rare circumstances.
I actually removed that upgrade from dedicated arsenal and made it into its own 11th level feat, "Patient Fighter" (At 11th level, the monk can spend 1 Ki point to trade one action for an additional reaction in that round) after a few DMs told me it wasn't really related. I agree I still could give this subclass some more oomph, my only fear is not treading in OP waters.
I added "When targeted by an attack, the Master of Arms can spend a reaction instead of a bonus action to use Patient Defense or Step of the Wind" as an 17th level upgrade to Patient Fighter. How does that sound to you? This furthers this monk's combo potential by a lot. The former typo on Defensive Stance calling it a "reaction" is a leftover of me tinkering with this idea, BTW.
As for the bigger beat-sticks, I think the differential is that the 6th level monk weapon doesn't have to be a martial weapon. My point here, frankly, is to make darts (I call them Kunai for the monk, just for flavor) a monk weapon so you can deal your martial die roll damage with them.
I guess most of this monk's unique moves (I like the action/reaction/bonus action shuffling) are not in this feat, but I still think this sets the tone of what the subclass is. This gives access to the weapons that make the most from their counters and combos.
Pendulum Strike: Giving advantage against multiple targets for a full round sounds too powerful.
Well, this is limited by Ki (regular dash doesn't grant this buff, only Step of the Wind) and how many attacks the monk can do, so 2 in its own turn (Extra attack) or 2 as reactions (having traded an action for a reaction in that round and using Adaptable Rebuke twice, only against creatures that made melee attacks first).
EDIT: new text specifies monk weapon attacks.
Defensive Stance: So, a buffed Patient Defense for twice the normal ki. Seems underwhelming this late in the game. Also, PD is a bonus action, not a reaction. If this was meant to be it's own thing and you just goofed some copy-paste: 2 AC for a reaction is still a bit weak. The first level spell Shield grants a +5.
I got the same "underwhelming" review from other DMs. This feat has since been reworded like this:
Crouching Monkey, Flying Crane
At 17th level, the monk learns how to use heavy martial weapons to cover their bodies before a counter attack. When wielding such a weapon, whenever the monk uses the Patient Defense feat, they gain a bonus to AC equal to their proficiency bonus until their next turn.
Whenever the monk uses the Dash action, they can instead fly in any direction at as much speed as they would move.
Hey guys. Any suggestions on this? Trying to raise the monk's DPR in early levels without breaking the game.
The text on the above image is not the most updated version. I'm keeping it so the other users' comments don't lose meaning, but the current text for this subclass can be found here:
https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/12NBqBhSoidrsRGYpi3I5qJXNBV1uBbb0i0p4vaGkmFU8
I was waiting to see if others would respond first, since I haven't played monk. Since nobody has posted, I'll give my feedback. I really like the idea of a heavy-weapons monk.
Initial subclass text: Why the stat, skill, and anti-skill requirements? 13 strength is a huge thing to ask of a monk, who is already regarded as stretched too thin on ability scores, especially since strength isn't doing anything in this subclass' features. Why is Athletics required instead of given? Why are monks banned from the subclass if they have tool proficiencies?
Dedicated Arsenal: This needs some active features. All you get is bigger beat-sticks. What can this monk *do* different from any other monk? Also, I really don't see the 11th level feature having any use outside of extremely rare circumstances.
Pendulum Strike: Giving advantage against multiple targets for a full round sounds too powerful.
Defensive Stance: So, a buffed Patient Defense for twice the normal ki. Seems underwhelming this late in the game. Also, PD is a bonus action, not a reaction. If this was meant to be it's own thing and you just goofed some copy-paste: 2 AC for a reaction is still a bit weak. The first level spell Shield grants a +5.
Hi! Thanks very much for the insights and breakdown! This is a WIP, so I reckon there's a lot to balance. Going point by point:
My idea here was to establish a physical lower bar that the monk needs to have achieved to be able to use the DEX modifier for heavy weapons attack and damage. In my DPR semi-educated guesses (I wouldn't call it calculations just yet XD), giving the monk access to heavy weapons felt it warranted some restrictions. The tool proficiency thing is mainly for flavor. Monks of this subclass are laser focused and study nothing but weapons. I feel it only really affects RP.
There's also a matter of balance: you have to choose a dedicated heavy weapon to be considered a monk weapon, but, in the course of a game, you might be disarmed or lose that particular weapon. If there's another heavy weapon you can pick up from the battlefield or that you kept on your inventory as an alternative, a minimal +1 mod for STR assures you can still be partially effective with any heavy weapon you might have to settle for before your next short rest. Could be a STR 12 demand for this purpose, though.
Scrap all that? How would you do it?
EDIT: The image of my original post is out of date. I have posted the direct link to the homebrewery file in the first comment. The current text of this subclass restrictions read like: "Monks who wish to join this Monastic Tradition must be proficient in the Athletics Skill and have a STR score of 12 or higher. Monks of the Master of Arms tradition have proficiency with shortswords and martial weapons with the heavy property instead of simple weapons. Monks in this monastic tradition cannot be proficient in any tool except Smith's Tools and Woodcarver's Tools".
I'm making it even harder for this character by removing simple weapons proficiency, making it dependant on heavy weapons. I feel this fits the flavor and gives the character tactical depth. What is your opinion?
I actually removed that upgrade from dedicated arsenal and made it into its own 11th level feat, "Patient Fighter" (At 11th level, the monk can spend 1 Ki point to trade one action for an additional reaction in that round) after a few DMs told me it wasn't really related. I agree I still could give this subclass some more oomph, my only fear is not treading in OP waters.
I added "When targeted by an attack, the Master of Arms can spend a reaction instead of a bonus action to use Patient Defense or Step of the Wind" as an 17th level upgrade to Patient Fighter. How does that sound to you? This furthers this monk's combo potential by a lot. The former typo on Defensive Stance calling it a "reaction" is a leftover of me tinkering with this idea, BTW.
As for the bigger beat-sticks, I think the differential is that the 6th level monk weapon doesn't have to be a martial weapon. My point here, frankly, is to make darts (I call them Kunai for the monk, just for flavor) a monk weapon so you can deal your martial die roll damage with them.
I guess most of this monk's unique moves (I like the action/reaction/bonus action shuffling) are not in this feat, but I still think this sets the tone of what the subclass is. This gives access to the weapons that make the most from their counters and combos.
Well, this is limited by Ki (regular dash doesn't grant this buff, only Step of the Wind) and how many attacks the monk can do, so 2 in its own turn (Extra attack) or 2 as reactions (having traded an action for a reaction in that round and using Adaptable Rebuke twice, only against creatures that made melee attacks first).
EDIT: new text specifies monk weapon attacks.
I got the same "underwhelming" review from other DMs. This feat has since been reworded like this:
Crouching Monkey, Flying Crane
At 17th level, the monk learns how to use heavy martial weapons to cover their bodies before a counter attack. When wielding such a weapon, whenever the monk uses the Patient Defense feat, they gain a bonus to AC equal to their proficiency bonus until their next turn.
Whenever the monk uses the Dash action, they can instead fly in any direction at as much speed as they would move.
The current text for this subclass in homebrewery: