Forgive me if this topic has been covered before, I played 2nd edition 20-30 years ago, and I'm only recently back with 5e/TOV.

So I was making this new character, and had a cool idea for a name, race/lineage, and background, but got stuck when it came to a class.

What if there was no class?  

The character could get 1D8 hit dice per level, they have no other class abilities, so use your starting talent (or 2) very carefully.

On every level up, the class gets to pick either a new skill, proficiency, talent, or a 2 point stat increase.  

As much as possible, this should be freeform, but could it be viable?  If restrictions are needed then what should they be?  If its not viable, how could it be made to work?

Any suggestions are greatly welcome.

Thanks

No, it is nowhere near viable.

I have seen a few creators attempt something like this, but the success has been questionable. Most of the attempts also end up being weaker than set class characters, and the designer's biases show through.

there was one by the Uglygoblin on youtube that even if you picked all the magic options, would be weaker than a normal caster class.
Usually classless characters are made best in system that are designed with classless characters in mind.

it is possible, but it is hard to do viably.

Thank you for the reply Gnoll, much appreciated.

I'm not to bothered by the classless being weaker than a standard class, I'm only concerned with it becoming too strong if the freeform choices are abused.  Basically, for me the role-playing is key, but I don't want to take advantage of my beleaguered DM beyond what is fair.

Lets face it, starting with Magic Initiate, and then later, a few eldritch adept talents, could cover a lot of ground.

Quote from GuyrixSterling >>

Thank you for the reply Gnoll, much appreciated.

I'm not to bothered by the classless being weaker than a standard class, I'm only concerned with it becoming too strong if the freeform choices are abused.  Basically, for me the role-playing is key, but I don't want to take advantage of my beleaguered DM beyond what is fair.

Lets face it, starting with Magic Initiate, and then later, a few eldritch adept talents, could cover a lot of ground.

Ok, here is the issue. you are going to make more work for your beleaguered DM with a classless character than you would with a very powerful one. The balance for encounters would have to be rethought entirely with a new character composition because you would become an unknown quantity. There is tons of advice out there to balance around the existing classes. 
you being classless would mean that the DM has to look at your build, analyze it, then build an enounter that doesn't turn you into hamburger. 

Quote from GuyrixSterling >>

Forgive me if this topic has been covered before, I played 2nd edition 20-30 years ago, and I'm only recently back with 5e/TOV.

So I was making this new character, and had a cool idea for a name, race/lineage, and background, but got stuck when it came to a class.

What if there was no class?  

The character could get 1D8 hit dice per level, they have no other class abilities, so use your starting talent (or 2) very carefully.

On every level up, the class gets to pick either a new skill, proficiency, talent, or a 2 point stat increase.  

As much as possible, this should be freeform, but could it be viable?  If restrictions are needed then what should they be?  If its not viable, how could it be made to work?

Any suggestions are greatly welcome.

Thanks

 At this point you're best off seeking out a classless fantasy ttrpg rather than trying to force the square peg that is D&D into the round hole that is what you're pursuing.

Well the game at play is 5e/TOV, so thats that, haha, if if my guy gets squished, no big deal.

Also, my DM expects me to be a blaster, and in truth that would be fairly easy to set up, even at level 1.  What I'm really interested in, what kind of restrictions should be put in place, so it doesn't become unfair.

For example, taking magic initiate (for eldritch blast) and eldritch adept (for agonising blast) can be done early, and then later, pick up some kind of unarmored defence, or armor talents, and go from there.  What would be problem, and where a restriction would be needed, is then taking an 2 point attribute bonus on every subsequent level up.

What do you mean by "TOV"?

Also why is your DM dictating what type of character you play?

Quote from GuyrixSterling >>

For example, taking magic initiate (for eldritch blast) and eldritch adept (for agonising blast) can be done early, and then later, pick up some kind of unarmored defence, or armor talents, and go from there.  What would be problem, and where a restriction would be needed, is then taking an 2 point attribute bonus on every subsequent level up.

 
The eldritch blast thing would not work. You are ineligible for Eldritch Adept.

Tasha's Version: "If the invocation has a prerequisite of any kind, you can choose that invocation only if you’re a warlock who meets the prerequisite.

2024 PHB Version: Prerequisite: Level 4+, Spellcasting or Pact Magic Feature)

"Magic Initiate" is not the Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature (which are specifically named features), it is a feat. Taking this feat doesn't make you a warlock.

-

You came to the forum to ask public opinion. The public opinion is that this is a bad idea and will create a lot more work for the DM. 

Deliberately making a "nerf class" is just going to create poor team balance, poor encounter balance. You may think your character getting squished is no big deal - for you. It will be for the party who have to make up for your slack, who then have to deal with your character dying on them making them more vulnerable until your next character is made. You're just being a burden - for no reason. Then the next character has to be introduced again, the DM has to write a new way to bring that character into play. If this is nothing but a dungeon crawl combat only game it's not so bad. But in a game involving roleplay and narrative this is a pure headache. 

Maybe just play as a Sidekick character - there's official rules for this making it easier to balance. This is massively better than this "deliberately weaken the party and be a burden/headache to everyone for a gimmick" idea you got.

I guess my question is, based on what you've said so far, why not just make a warlock? If you are going magic initiate for eldritch blast to then try and grab eldritch adept... and to somehow justify those choices narratively, you are basically making a warlock anyway, no?

Quote from Davyd >>

What do you mean by "TOV"?

Also why is your DM dictating what type of character you play?

TOV = Tales of the Valiant

The DM isn't dictating my character, but he is aware of what I usually go for.  My current character (Guyrix) is a draconic sorcerer (silver dragon, hence the name Sterling), stacked up with elemental adept, quickened and twinned spell metamagics (not at the same time obv), and enough charisma to make a bard jealous. 

Anywho, It was just an idea to see if it was possible to make it possible.  If The answer is no, then thats okay too.

Tales of Valiant

Like, I could just make a Warlock, I do have a thing for Pale Night...

As a rule, hard game systems aren’t going to support concepts that throw central paradigms like class features and leveling out the window. The game is built on the assumption that each PC’s performance will fall within a certain range, and while it is by no means a well-oiled machine it’s still reasonably workable within that scope but quickly becomes much harder to maintain if one or more PCs fall well outside of it.

Quote from GuyrixSterling >>

Forgive me if this topic has been covered before, I played 2nd edition 20-30 years ago, and I'm only recently back with 5e/TOV.

So I was making this new character, and had a cool idea for a name, race/lineage, and background, but got stuck when it came to a class.

What if there was no class?  

The character could get 1D8 hit dice per level, they have no other class abilities, so use your starting talent (or 2) very carefully.

On every level up, the class gets to pick either a new skill, proficiency, talent, or a 2 point stat increase.  

As much as possible, this should be freeform, but could it be viable?  If restrictions are needed then what should they be?  If its not viable, how could it be made to work?

Any suggestions are greatly welcome.

Thanks

As conceived it's a bad idea, but if you want to role play this, I would suggest a Champion Fighter. They get no magical abilities, and just become great with their combat style, they get nothing that really feels like a flashy class ability, they just get good at hitting the enemy with the pointy end. 

Quote from gothicshark >>

As conceived it's a bad idea, but if you want to role play this, I would suggest a Champion Fighter. They get no magical abilities, and just become great with their combat style, they get nothing that really feels like a flashy class ability, they just get good at hitting the enemy with the pointy end. 

 Its an option, sure.

I had initially worried that the Classless Class could be too strong if certain choices would be taken repeatedly.  However, the idea that it was so weak that it would cause other players to lose their mortgages and fail paternal DNA checks, had not occurred. to me.  That could also be covered.  For example "the classless class' automatically passes any skill or talent prerequisites that may arise.  You may take a level up boon to pick abilities of other classes, as long as you are not of a lower level than those abilities.

Or something of that nature.  I fully accept that the classless concept may be too broad to be playable.

(well, I'm going back to debating if a warlock of Pale Night would be a fiend or Great Old One, both seam to apply) 

Quote from GuyrixSterling >>

Quote from gothicshark >>

As conceived it's a bad idea, but if you want to role play this, I would suggest a Champion Fighter. They get no magical abilities, and just become great with their combat style, they get nothing that really feels like a flashy class ability, they just get good at hitting the enemy with the pointy end. 

 Its an option, sure.

I had initially worried that the Classless Class could be too strong if certain choices would be taken repeatedly.  However, the idea that it was so weak that it would cause other players to lose their mortgages and fail paternal DNA checks, had not occurred. to me.  That could also be covered.  For example "the classless class' automatically passes any skill or talent prerequisites that may arise.  You may take a level up boon to pick abilities of other classes, as long as you are not of a lower level than those abilities.

Or something of that nature.  I fully accept that the classless concept may be too broad to be playable.

(well, I'm going back to debating if a warlock of Pale Night would be a fiend or Great Old One, both seam to apply) 

And that swings the other way to insanely broken.

And that swings the other way to insanely broken.  Doesn't have to be.  For example

Hit dice = D8.  The classless class automatically passes any skill or talent prerequisites that may arise, but can not be used to multiclass.

Skills/Proficiencies : Pick one at levels 1/1/5/9/13/17 (start with 2 at level 1).

Talent Choice : Pick one at levels 2/6/10/14/18.

Class or subclass feature: Pick one at levels 3/7/11/15/19.  Does not include armor/weapon proficiencies, and the feature must not be of a higher class level.

Attribute improvement : Pick one (+2) at levels 4/8/12/16/20.

Note that if spellcasting abilities are chosen as a class feature (from level 3), spell progression can never be more than a half caster.  In this case, pick your spell casting attribute and related sphere of spells, and use the Eldritch Knight spell slot progression.

I'd say the closest you can get to a classless experience in D&D 5e is to play a heavily multiclassed character, something like no more than four levels in any single class. Maybe even less if the game isn't going to reach higher levels.

Quote from GuyrixSterling >>

(well, I'm going back to debating if a warlock of Pale Night would be a fiend or Great Old One, both seam to apply) 

Now that would be a fun thread, as Pale Night is one of those entities in D&D that needs more of a spotlight. Mother of Demons, and a primordial being of chaos.