This is just a poll of how many people would want to try it once its ready. To see the extra rules as they are so far, go to the homebrew section instead.
This is just a poll of how many people would want to try it once its ready. To see the extra rules as they are so far, go to the homebrew section instead.
Is it okay that the poll for interest in the rules is here in the rules section? I thought that since the rules are being built from scratch, they'd go in Homebrew.
I just merged the two threads on this together for you. :)
Personally I don't believe that this play style works well with D&D, however everyone is welcome to play the game how they like, as long as that isn't harming anyone else! For this sort of dark & gritty playstyle, I would likely play a different game.
As for ideas:
Long rests - there are already optional rules for gritty realism in the Dungeon Master's Guide - having characters regain full hitpoints from a long rest likely doesn't fit with this playstyle.
Weapon Durability - would add too much book keeping to keep track of a durability stat for each weapon, so this could be modelled by having a "break roll" for different weapon types. Essentially, if you roll a natural 1 on an attack, you then need to roll a weapon break for that weapon on a d20. Example: Spear breaks on a 12+, Longsword breaks on an 18+. Magical weapons could get a bonus or be immune to breaking.
Armour Durability - in fights armour gets damaged. Similar to the weapon durability, you could have an armour save after each fight. Failing it would cause the armour to lose 1 point of its protection until it is properly repaired by an armourer. Characters trained as an armourer with blacksmith tools may be able to effect temporary repairs.
I just merged the two threads on this together for you. :)
Doing so prevented me from commenting...
Here it is:
The thing about d&d is that you don't really need to make up extra rules to make it harder, you can just use more monsters, or monsters that are slightly stronger than players are ready for.
I'll address most of these rules and give my opinions, if I think of some extra, I'll let you know.
Curing death is expensive. The lowest level one costs 300gp worth of diamonds which must be bought before hand. In a hard mode campaign getting this amount of gold might be harder than usual.
Adding an extra disease or two can be a good way to adjust difficulty, remember to have saves and symptoms planned out, and not just "dead in 7 days." A good poison is similar to a mini disease, and it might make more sense to go with that sometimes.
Abridging travel is up to the DM in all cases anyway this doesnt need to be an option.
Encounters during rest is also already a normal thing a DM can do.
Players will rarely be isolated long enough for insanity to be realistic.
The rules already cover travel speed and duration. Stopping for breaks is already implied and abridged.
The demagogue one is weird. First I had to look up what it means, and even then it is super situational. Second, DMs give out inspiration at their own discretion anyway and some don't (choosing to reward RP and tactics other ways). Third, it punishes players for something good, inspiration is usually granted for good RP, and is undetectable by in game physics, similar to karma. I don't like this idea. It punishes good players for being good players in the name of difficulty.
I get the idea of "humiliated" but don't think it should work that way. Saves are made to dodge or resist effects, saying you can't dodge an attack because you are too embarrassed to try makes no sense. You might consider applying this to skill checks instead.
I like waterlogged.
I don't care for shocked. Many large creatures already have a trample ability if they would use it. And being scared of something just because it is big sounds like the kind of thing that happens only once. Anything that is particularly scary has an ability related to that.
I get where the lightning strike idea is coming from, but think it should be used differently. First I would roll percentile dice to see if lightning strikes at all (lets say 50% chance), then when light strikes, it would be a DEX save to half (or avoid) the lightning damage. Might throw a CON save for everything within 5 feet to resist thunder damage.
Rather than having an instant death bite option, most monsters that eat live victims have a bite that grapples, then can swallow a grappled target, that target is now restrained and takes acid damage every turn. I would copy one of those abilities or just use those monsters if that was the kind of encounter I wanted to have. I am also generally opposed to instant death effects, instead preferring it to take multiple failed saves or build up damage. One monster with an ability similar to your dragon bite is a medusa's petrifying gaze which it can do for free 30 feet away. If you fail twice or fail baddly, you become petrified. Petrified is as good as dead if the party does not have a level 9 cleric, druid, or bard handy. And medusas are CR 6, so you can introduce them much earlier into a campaign than an adult dragon.
Crime doesn't pay is a setting/plot feature more than a rule. And their should be a punishment for any character that gets caught stealing regardless of difficulty.
I think dashing is fairly balanced, it does take an action to do. Regardless -5 is steep, I'd go with -2 or just disadvantage on initiative.
Knockoff (or cursed) magic items is a great idea to use every once in a while.
In response to stormknight's durability idea: you can use a simplified durability stat that ticks down every failed durability save. Something like: fine, worn, damaged, broken. Durability saves could be like death saves and be DC 10 with no modifiers, requiring one roll when an attack misses by more than 5, and requiring 2 rolls on crit misses. Armor would make rolls when an attack misses by less than the AC granted by the armor (for example leather is 1, plate is 8), Shields would be if the attack misses by an amount more than the AC the armor grants, but less than the AC granted by armor and shield (for example 3 for leather and 10 for plate). It is a little complicated, but could be worse. I use a similar system to describe how an attack was dodged or blocked.
Fear and horror. Similar to your shocked idea, this rule would apply when facing strong or incomprehensible monsters and a failed save results in frightened or madness.
Healer kit dependency and slow natural healing. The first rule makes it so you need a healer kit to heal on short rest. The second rule makes long rests need hit dice to heal instead of fully healing automatically.
Gritty realism. Mentioned by stormknight. This makes short rests take 8 hours and long rests take 7 days.
Injury. I mentioned previously.
Massive damage. Like Injuries, it is a chart to roll on if a creature takes a lot of damage.
You can also use variant encuberance and coin weight to punish characters for looting.
I still don't have any personal ideas aside from using (or brewing) stronger monsters and giving fewer good items. I'm more of an idea improver than an idea creator.
I like several of these options. The whole thing with the humiliated is that it's a slightly reversed version of one of the CombatMod Feats one of the players in my current campaign has. Since they're still in the VERY early game, I made an original feat for each player that they could use once per combat, if they feel it's going to end badly, that way they have time to either get away from the fight or formulate a new strategy for it. Giz; the Lizardfolk Monk is using the Bluster CombatMod right now, but they have to choose only one DM-Mod as soon as we start that session and can't choose a different one until the next play session. Bluster is most useful if out traveling and you stumble into a bandit ambush or an angry mob. I don't know why I included that as a random encounter, but you never know when the urge to grab a torch and a hayfork will get to you haha. Once per combat, as long as he's not being attacked right then, Giz can decide to show off his martial skill to his enemies (think flashy, pre fight showing off in older kung fu movies) afterwards, up to three enemies directly in front of him make a DC12 Wis save, if they fail the roll, they decide that they'd rather find easier pickings and either become feared or try to flee the battle if they roll a 1. But if they succeed on the roll, those enemies are knocked prone for a single action as they laugh hysterically at his foolish display.
The Halfling Rogue has a real streak of stubborn over-confidence, so he picked the DM-Mod that favored that roleplay-wise.
It's called "I ain't afraid of you!" If he's fighting an enemy that is medium or larger, and they attempt to intimidate him or cause fear, he has to roll the save like normal, but if he succeeds, he looks at them smugly before walking right up to them and stamping down on their toes with all his little halfling weight. The enemy only takes 1 point of damage, but suffers disadvantage on attack rolls until the end of the turn. If he fails the save, the standard effects happen.
He really wanted to pick two but I said no because the other player only got one.
The other one he wanted was nearly the exact opposite of I ain't afraid of you! It's called "Don't Eat Me!"
It's similar to the kobold's grovel but with that Rogueish flair.
Again, it relies on him fighting something that's at least one size bigger than him. he falls theatrically over his enemy's feet and latches onto one of their legs wailing "NOO! OH GODS NO! DON'T EAT ME!!" and nonsense like that. He has to make a charisma roll after he grabs their leg. If he succeeds, they become confused for 1d4 turns and can only make the move action for those turns. If he fails, a medium character will kick him off of their leg (-1 hp) if they're large or have powerful build, they pick him up and toss him up to 5 feet in a random direction.
Players will rarely be isolated long enough for insanity to be realistic.
You never got caught in multiple Dream Spells by someone, and his friends, that really really REALLY wanted you dead before huh?
Or, been trapped in a dream that was almost like a magical loading screen while a very poorly prepared for that sesh dm (me T_T) had to scramble to get everything together to play.
Hesitation: If a player takes more than thirty seconds to decide on a course of action in combat their turn is skipped and every enemy within 5 ft. gets to take an opportunity attack against them. Rolls made after decision don’t count against time. This encourages a speedy combat and for players to be ready when their turn arrives. This also simulates real hesitation in combat.
Hesitation: If a player takes more than thirty seconds to decide on a course of action in combat their turn is skipped and every enemy within 5 ft. gets to take an opportunity attack against them. Rolls made after decision don’t count against time. This encourages a speedy combat and for players to be ready when their turn arrives. This also simulates real hesitation in combat.
I have recently become interested in the concept of a Hardcore mode. I was brought aware of it by "Dungeon Craft", a youtuber by the name professor dungeon master (he is an actual professor at a college too). He talks about a grimdark game and a hardcore mode. I found this site when looking for information on dnd hardcore mode. It is an SRD with hardcore mode game rules.
It would be cool if there was a hardcore mode character generation selection. But it seems that we would need to make a bunch of homebrew content that catered to it and I don't know how long that would take because I've made very little homebrew content on DNDBeyond.
Does anyone here know if this is feasible?
Anyway, I love the idea of a Hardcore Mode and would like to try it out.
Cheers!
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Filthy Casual
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Wooo! Permadeath and absurdly strong enemies abound where we're going everybody!
How many people would try and play D&D with hardcore rules like permadeth, instant death rolls and conterfeit magical items?
Show of hands errr...show of votes!
...Ehhh, whatever. It was a dumb idea anyways
This is just a poll of how many people would want to try it once its ready. To see the extra rules as they are so far, go to the homebrew section instead.
...Ehhh, whatever. It was a dumb idea anyways
Is it okay that the poll for interest in the rules is here in the rules section? I thought that since the rules are being built from scratch, they'd go in Homebrew.
...Ehhh, whatever. It was a dumb idea anyways
I just merged the two threads on this together for you. :)
Personally I don't believe that this play style works well with D&D, however everyone is welcome to play the game how they like, as long as that isn't harming anyone else! For this sort of dark & gritty playstyle, I would likely play a different game.
As for ideas:
Pun-loving nerd | Faith Elisabeth Lilley | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
Doing so prevented me from commenting...
Here it is:
The thing about d&d is that you don't really need to make up extra rules to make it harder, you can just use more monsters, or monsters that are slightly stronger than players are ready for.
I'll address most of these rules and give my opinions, if I think of some extra, I'll let you know.
Curing death is expensive. The lowest level one costs 300gp worth of diamonds which must be bought before hand. In a hard mode campaign getting this amount of gold might be harder than usual.
Adding an extra disease or two can be a good way to adjust difficulty, remember to have saves and symptoms planned out, and not just "dead in 7 days." A good poison is similar to a mini disease, and it might make more sense to go with that sometimes.
Abridging travel is up to the DM in all cases anyway this doesnt need to be an option.
Encounters during rest is also already a normal thing a DM can do.
Players will rarely be isolated long enough for insanity to be realistic.
The rules already cover travel speed and duration. Stopping for breaks is already implied and abridged.
The demagogue one is weird. First I had to look up what it means, and even then it is super situational. Second, DMs give out inspiration at their own discretion anyway and some don't (choosing to reward RP and tactics other ways). Third, it punishes players for something good, inspiration is usually granted for good RP, and is undetectable by in game physics, similar to karma. I don't like this idea. It punishes good players for being good players in the name of difficulty.
The DMG already has an optional rule for injuries, including a rollable chart. Here: https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/dmg/dungeon-masters-workshop#Injuries
I get the idea of "humiliated" but don't think it should work that way. Saves are made to dodge or resist effects, saying you can't dodge an attack because you are too embarrassed to try makes no sense. You might consider applying this to skill checks instead.
I like waterlogged.
I don't care for shocked. Many large creatures already have a trample ability if they would use it. And being scared of something just because it is big sounds like the kind of thing that happens only once. Anything that is particularly scary has an ability related to that.
I get where the lightning strike idea is coming from, but think it should be used differently. First I would roll percentile dice to see if lightning strikes at all (lets say 50% chance), then when light strikes, it would be a DEX save to half (or avoid) the lightning damage. Might throw a CON save for everything within 5 feet to resist thunder damage.
To be continued...
Rather than having an instant death bite option, most monsters that eat live victims have a bite that grapples, then can swallow a grappled target, that target is now restrained and takes acid damage every turn. I would copy one of those abilities or just use those monsters if that was the kind of encounter I wanted to have. I am also generally opposed to instant death effects, instead preferring it to take multiple failed saves or build up damage. One monster with an ability similar to your dragon bite is a medusa's petrifying gaze which it can do for free 30 feet away. If you fail twice or fail baddly, you become petrified. Petrified is as good as dead if the party does not have a level 9 cleric, druid, or bard handy. And medusas are CR 6, so you can introduce them much earlier into a campaign than an adult dragon.
Crime doesn't pay is a setting/plot feature more than a rule. And their should be a punishment for any character that gets caught stealing regardless of difficulty.
I think dashing is fairly balanced, it does take an action to do. Regardless -5 is steep, I'd go with -2 or just disadvantage on initiative.
Knockoff (or cursed) magic items is a great idea to use every once in a while.
In response to stormknight's durability idea: you can use a simplified durability stat that ticks down every failed durability save. Something like: fine, worn, damaged, broken. Durability saves could be like death saves and be DC 10 with no modifiers, requiring one roll when an attack misses by more than 5, and requiring 2 rolls on crit misses. Armor would make rolls when an attack misses by less than the AC granted by the armor (for example leather is 1, plate is 8), Shields would be if the attack misses by an amount more than the AC the armor grants, but less than the AC granted by armor and shield (for example 3 for leather and 10 for plate). It is a little complicated, but could be worse. I use a similar system to describe how an attack was dodged or blocked.
End of review. Personal ideas in future post.
Before I add personal hardcore rules (more than my versions of previous ideas anyway), I would be remiss if I didn't mention official rule variants that you may want. All of these are found in DMG here: https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/dmg/dungeon-masters-workshop
Fear and horror. Similar to your shocked idea, this rule would apply when facing strong or incomprehensible monsters and a failed save results in frightened or madness.
Healer kit dependency and slow natural healing. The first rule makes it so you need a healer kit to heal on short rest. The second rule makes long rests need hit dice to heal instead of fully healing automatically.
Gritty realism. Mentioned by stormknight. This makes short rests take 8 hours and long rests take 7 days.
Injury. I mentioned previously.
Massive damage. Like Injuries, it is a chart to roll on if a creature takes a lot of damage.
You can also use variant encuberance and coin weight to punish characters for looting.
I still don't have any personal ideas aside from using (or brewing) stronger monsters and giving fewer good items. I'm more of an idea improver than an idea creator.
I like several of these options. The whole thing with the humiliated is that it's a slightly reversed version of one of the CombatMod Feats one of the players in my current campaign has. Since they're still in the VERY early game, I made an original feat for each player that they could use once per combat, if they feel it's going to end badly, that way they have time to either get away from the fight or formulate a new strategy for it. Giz; the Lizardfolk Monk is using the Bluster CombatMod right now, but they have to choose only one DM-Mod as soon as we start that session and can't choose a different one until the next play session. Bluster is most useful if out traveling and you stumble into a bandit ambush or an angry mob. I don't know why I included that as a random encounter, but you never know when the urge to grab a torch and a hayfork will get to you haha. Once per combat, as long as he's not being attacked right then, Giz can decide to show off his martial skill to his enemies (think flashy, pre fight showing off in older kung fu movies) afterwards, up to three enemies directly in front of him make a DC12 Wis save, if they fail the roll, they decide that they'd rather find easier pickings and either become feared or try to flee the battle if they roll a 1. But if they succeed on the roll, those enemies are knocked prone for a single action as they laugh hysterically at his foolish display.
...Ehhh, whatever. It was a dumb idea anyways
The Halfling Rogue has a real streak of stubborn over-confidence, so he picked the DM-Mod that favored that roleplay-wise.
It's called "I ain't afraid of you!" If he's fighting an enemy that is medium or larger, and they attempt to intimidate him or cause fear, he has to roll the save like normal, but if he succeeds, he looks at them smugly before walking right up to them and stamping down on their toes with all his little halfling weight. The enemy only takes 1 point of damage, but suffers disadvantage on attack rolls until the end of the turn. If he fails the save, the standard effects happen.
...Ehhh, whatever. It was a dumb idea anyways
He really wanted to pick two but I said no because the other player only got one.
The other one he wanted was nearly the exact opposite of I ain't afraid of you! It's called "Don't Eat Me!"
It's similar to the kobold's grovel but with that Rogueish flair.
Again, it relies on him fighting something that's at least one size bigger than him. he falls theatrically over his enemy's feet and latches onto one of their legs wailing "NOO! OH GODS NO! DON'T EAT ME!!" and nonsense like that. He has to make a charisma roll after he grabs their leg. If he succeeds, they become confused for 1d4 turns and can only make the move action for those turns. If he fails, a medium character will kick him off of their leg (-1 hp) if they're large or have powerful build, they pick him up and toss him up to 5 feet in a random direction.
...Ehhh, whatever. It was a dumb idea anyways
You never got caught in multiple Dream Spells by someone, and his friends, that really really REALLY wanted you dead before huh?
Blank
Or, been trapped in a dream that was almost like a magical loading screen while a very poorly prepared for that sesh dm (me T_T) had to scramble to get everything together to play.
...Ehhh, whatever. It was a dumb idea anyways
Cursed Traps. Ala sleeping beauty.
...Ehhh, whatever. It was a dumb idea anyways
Performance enhancing yet toxic and or highly addictive substances. Steroids?
Sleg from Hunted: the Demons Forge?
...Ehhh, whatever. It was a dumb idea anyways
Hesitation: If a player takes more than thirty seconds to decide on a course of action in combat their turn is skipped and every enemy within 5 ft. gets to take an opportunity attack against them. Rolls made after decision don’t count against time. This encourages a speedy combat and for players to be ready when their turn arrives. This also simulates real hesitation in combat.
Am absolutely a fan of this idea
...Ehhh, whatever. It was a dumb idea anyways
I have recently become interested in the concept of a Hardcore mode. I was brought aware of it by "Dungeon Craft", a youtuber by the name professor dungeon master (he is an actual professor at a college too). He talks about a grimdark game and a hardcore mode. I found this site when looking for information on dnd hardcore mode. It is an SRD with hardcore mode game rules.
https://www.5esrd.com/gamemastering/alternative-rules-other-publishers/5e-hardcore-mode/
It would be cool if there was a hardcore mode character generation selection. But it seems that we would need to make a bunch of homebrew content that catered to it and I don't know how long that would take because I've made very little homebrew content on DNDBeyond.
Does anyone here know if this is feasible?
Anyway, I love the idea of a Hardcore Mode and would like to try it out.
Cheers!
Filthy Casual