True, I'm just being overcritical in situations for multiple crits in a single casting happen. I understand that conditions don't stack (expect exhaustion), but it would allow multiple times that a creature can be frightened if they succeed a saving throw.
Crits are rare enough... I think it would be amazing to land a crit, have the enemy pass the check, then hit them with another and win the second check. That moment sounds so amazing and it would be so unsatisfying to land a two crits and not even get a roll for the second one
Crits are rare enough... I think it would be amazing to land a crit, have the enemy pass the check, then hit them with another and win the second check. That moment sounds so amazing and it would be so unsatisfying to land a two crits and not even get a roll for the second one
Actually, yes, that does sound pretty freakin' amazing, haha. I think you're right that crits are rare enough that the way it is currently written would suffice. There is always playtesting to see if there are more kinks that can be worked out.
True, I'm just being overcritical in situations for multiple crits in a single casting happen. I understand that conditions don't stack (expect exhaustion), but it would allow multiple times that a creature can be frightened if they succeed a saving throw.
I wouldn't say you're being overcritical; I understand the necessity to balance things accordingly and since this cantrip has two fairly strong effects it is certainly reasonable to want safeguards!
This is how it will probably fall in line on failures. Afterall once you've failed, that's it, the condition is on and it might seem kind of silly to give them a second chance after they're already scared out of their mind. But really the chances, as Transmorpher DDS pointed out, of landing multiple crits in succession are slim enough.
I think I am at a point where I may consider publishing this on DDB. I will run it through a game this weekend and see what my DM thinks, and also have some of my players use it in my other game to see if there are more kinks to be worked out. I greatly appreciate the conversation y'all! If there is anything else that needs to be addressed, by all means continue posting.
According to the wording of the spell it only lasts until the end of the caster’s next round. So if they get scared, shake it off 6 seconds later, and then it happens again three rounds after that it’s no big deal.
But this is a Cantrip. Once the target passes its save they know its an illusion and the spell’s frightened shouldn’t be able to work on that target again for 24 hours. If this were a 1st level spell or higher no problemo, but a Cantrip...? Throwing 1d8 at up to 4 targets/round at 17th level that’s potentially a lot of frightened. Some limitations should be in place and I think a 24 immunity after a save is fine. Realistically the target probably won’t survive the combat anyway.
According to the wording of the spell it only lasts until the end of the caster’s next round. So if they get scared, shake it off 6 seconds later, and then it happens again three rounds after that it’s no big deal.
But this is a Cantrip. Once the target passes its save they know its an illusion and the spell’s frightened shouldn’t be able to work on that target again for 24 hours. If this were a 1st level spell or higher no problemo, but a Cantrip...? Throwing 1d8 at up to 4 targets/round at 17th level that’s potentially a lot of frightened. Some limitations should be in place and I think a 24 immunity after a save is fine. Realistically the target probably won’t survive the combat anyway.
yeah... that was my thought process about the fear on crit
All those poor fighters with INT as their dump stat....
I know, right? Lol!
So far I see two options regarding the immunization of being frightened given this information, reading through these suggestions and also going over other spells which have similar effects:
Option One: On a Successful Save, the target realizes that the effect is an Illusion, and cannot be frightened by it again until the end of their next turn.
This option falls in line with the idea that critical hits are already rare, and the Frightened effect will occur less frequently. To make an argument for it: I don't think it is entirely out of the realm of possibility for a creature to be Frightened on a subsequent turns if it succeeds on a throw previously. It is, afterall, a new attack and a new illusion which the creature may or may not be sure is real. The damage they take still occurs whether or not the save succeeds or fails, so could the creature justify the fear in another way?
Option Two: If a creature's saving throw is successful, the creature is immune to the frightening effect of Illusory Orbs of Annihilation for the next 24 hours.
This option speaks for itself. It makes perfect sense that a creature may make their throw and just realize the Caster was craftily tinkering with their brain. It employs fresh tactics on behalf of the Illusionist because now their trusty cantrip which just landed a critical hit didn't additionally frighten the creature and that could have been a strategic advantage they needed.
I proffer a solution which meets somewhere in the middle. The immunization can be 24 hours versus the critical hit effect. Now we assume the Creatures made its saving throw:
Option Three: If you cast an Illusion spell of [X] level or higher, any creature which successfully made their save previously against Illusory Orbs of Annihilation now qualifies to be frightened by its effects again, even if it hasn't been 24 hours.
The description will need to be smoothed over, but I think the general idea is clear enough. Thoughts?
All those poor fighters with INT as their dump stat....
As one of my main characters laughs in eldritch knight
Either option 1 or 2 will work, I'd say it'll have to come down to your call cause both are good options. With the cantrip being a on crit effect, option 1 should be fine, but I personally like the idea adding a small tag like they have immune on succeed or advantage save if you land a second crit on the same creature. If the cantrip just did the frighten effect on hit rather than crit this conversation would have likely been different.
Option Number One: I was able to playtest this in my Saturday night group as a player, although I wasn't a Wizard so I slapped it on my Warlock just to test out (with permission from my DM). I tried it with the ability modifier damage, and used "On a Successful Save, the target realizes that the effect is an Illusion, and cannot be frightened by it again until the end of their next turn." as the variant for the Frightened effect application.
Result: I only landed a single critical hit with this spell all night (4-6 hour session) so there wasn't any real way to gauge if the application of frightened, with this option, is too strong. I can say with absolute certainty, however, that the damage is actually quite nice; the spellcasting modifier was added into the damage and easily outpace a lot of other damaging spells and some melee weapon classes. I yanked the ability modifier early on after noticing how high the damage was, and it played out a lot more smoothly after that. The one critical hit I landed Frightened the creature, and to our suspicion it died very shortly after from subsequent attacks that round by other players.
Option Number Two: On Sunday I allowed a player who is playing a Wizard to use it during the campaign I am running. I removed the ability modifier damage from their version and used the, "If a creature's saving throw is successful, the creature is immune to the frightening effect of Illusory Orbs of Annihilation for the next 24 hours." variant for the Frightened effect application.
Result: The player landed four critical hits (yowza!) in a six hour session. Against one creature, the creature made their initial save, so the second critical hit was moot with the option we're using here. The second creature was immune to being frightened, and the third creature failed their save but was promptly killed by the end of the round.
Overall conclusions so far:
It is inconclusive at the moment, but regarding the rarity of landing critical hits I am favoring option one. The 24 hour restriction has a less dynamic sense of play, whereas the potentiality of frightening a bad guy more than once may be a good way to turn the tables in a fight that's going south fast. As a DM, I will likely be using the first option, or the third option since I need to playtest it still.
Glad to hear your play testing went well then. It's not often to hear how homebrew tested out without having to test it ourselves. plus there's only so much number crunching you do before actually testing it. After hearing the results, I'd agree with your judgement with going with option 1 (without ability mod damage bonus). I wouldn't bother with trying option 3 since it will likely have a similar result as option 2.
True, I'm just being overcritical in situations for multiple crits in a single casting happen. I understand that conditions don't stack (expect exhaustion), but it would allow multiple times that a creature can be frightened if they succeed a saving throw.
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I'd say one save per target per turn.
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Crits are rare enough... I think it would be amazing to land a crit, have the enemy pass the check, then hit them with another and win the second check. That moment sounds so amazing and it would be so unsatisfying to land a two crits and not even get a roll for the second one
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Actually, yes, that does sound pretty freakin' amazing, haha. I think you're right that crits are rare enough that the way it is currently written would suffice. There is always playtesting to see if there are more kinks that can be worked out.
I wouldn't say you're being overcritical; I understand the necessity to balance things accordingly and since this cantrip has two fairly strong effects it is certainly reasonable to want safeguards!
This is how it will probably fall in line on failures. Afterall once you've failed, that's it, the condition is on and it might seem kind of silly to give them a second chance after they're already scared out of their mind. But really the chances, as Transmorpher DDS pointed out, of landing multiple crits in succession are slim enough.
I think I am at a point where I may consider publishing this on DDB. I will run it through a game this weekend and see what my DM thinks, and also have some of my players use it in my other game to see if there are more kinks to be worked out. I greatly appreciate the conversation y'all! If there is anything else that needs to be addressed, by all means continue posting.
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Successfully completed the Tomb of Horrors module (as part of playing Tomb of Annihilation) with no party deaths!
According to the wording of the spell it only lasts until the end of the caster’s next round. So if they get scared, shake it off 6 seconds later, and then it happens again three rounds after that it’s no big deal.
But this is a Cantrip. Once the target passes its save they know its an illusion and the spell’s frightened shouldn’t be able to work on that target again for 24 hours. If this were a 1st level spell or higher no problemo, but a Cantrip...? Throwing 1d8 at up to 4 targets/round at 17th level that’s potentially a lot of frightened. Some limitations should be in place and I think a 24 immunity after a save is fine. Realistically the target probably won’t survive the combat anyway.
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yeah... that was my thought process about the fear on crit
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Very true. 24 hours should work, especially as it’s an Int save so less common.
Please take a look at my homebrewed Spells, Magic Items, and Subclasses. Any feedback appreciated.
All those poor fighters with INT as their dump stat....
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I know, right? Lol!
So far I see two options regarding the immunization of being frightened given this information, reading through these suggestions and also going over other spells which have similar effects:
Option One: On a Successful Save, the target realizes that the effect is an Illusion, and cannot be frightened by it again until the end of their next turn.
This option falls in line with the idea that critical hits are already rare, and the Frightened effect will occur less frequently. To make an argument for it: I don't think it is entirely out of the realm of possibility for a creature to be Frightened on a subsequent turns if it succeeds on a throw previously. It is, afterall, a new attack and a new illusion which the creature may or may not be sure is real. The damage they take still occurs whether or not the save succeeds or fails, so could the creature justify the fear in another way?
Option Two: If a creature's saving throw is successful, the creature is immune to the frightening effect of Illusory Orbs of Annihilation for the next 24 hours.
This option speaks for itself. It makes perfect sense that a creature may make their throw and just realize the Caster was craftily tinkering with their brain. It employs fresh tactics on behalf of the Illusionist because now their trusty cantrip which just landed a critical hit didn't additionally frighten the creature and that could have been a strategic advantage they needed.
I proffer a solution which meets somewhere in the middle. The immunization can be 24 hours versus the critical hit effect. Now we assume the Creatures made its saving throw:
Option Three: If you cast an Illusion spell of [X] level or higher, any creature which successfully made their save previously against Illusory Orbs of Annihilation now qualifies to be frightened by its effects again, even if it hasn't been 24 hours.
The description will need to be smoothed over, but I think the general idea is clear enough. Thoughts?
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Chief Innovationist, Acquisitions Inc. The Series 2
Successfully completed the Tomb of Horrors module (as part of playing Tomb of Annihilation) with no party deaths!
As one of my main characters laughs in eldritch knight
Either option 1 or 2 will work, I'd say it'll have to come down to your call cause both are good options. With the cantrip being a on crit effect, option 1 should be fine, but I personally like the idea adding a small tag like they have immune on succeed or advantage save if you land a second crit on the same creature. If the cantrip just did the frighten effect on hit rather than crit this conversation would have likely been different.
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PLAYTEST UPDATE!
Option Number One: I was able to playtest this in my Saturday night group as a player, although I wasn't a Wizard so I slapped it on my Warlock just to test out (with permission from my DM). I tried it with the ability modifier damage, and used "On a Successful Save, the target realizes that the effect is an Illusion, and cannot be frightened by it again until the end of their next turn." as the variant for the Frightened effect application.
Result: I only landed a single critical hit with this spell all night (4-6 hour session) so there wasn't any real way to gauge if the application of frightened, with this option, is too strong. I can say with absolute certainty, however, that the damage is actually quite nice; the spellcasting modifier was added into the damage and easily outpace a lot of other damaging spells and some melee weapon classes. I yanked the ability modifier early on after noticing how high the damage was, and it played out a lot more smoothly after that. The one critical hit I landed Frightened the creature, and to our suspicion it died very shortly after from subsequent attacks that round by other players.
Option Number Two: On Sunday I allowed a player who is playing a Wizard to use it during the campaign I am running. I removed the ability modifier damage from their version and used the, "If a creature's saving throw is successful, the creature is immune to the frightening effect of Illusory Orbs of Annihilation for the next 24 hours." variant for the Frightened effect application.
Result: The player landed four critical hits (yowza!) in a six hour session. Against one creature, the creature made their initial save, so the second critical hit was moot with the option we're using here. The second creature was immune to being frightened, and the third creature failed their save but was promptly killed by the end of the round.
Overall conclusions so far:
It is inconclusive at the moment, but regarding the rarity of landing critical hits I am favoring option one. The 24 hour restriction has a less dynamic sense of play, whereas the potentiality of frightening a bad guy more than once may be a good way to turn the tables in a fight that's going south fast. As a DM, I will likely be using the first option, or the third option since I need to playtest it still.
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Successfully completed the Tomb of Horrors module (as part of playing Tomb of Annihilation) with no party deaths!
Glad to hear your play testing went well then. It's not often to hear how homebrew tested out without having to test it ourselves. plus there's only so much number crunching you do before actually testing it. After hearing the results, I'd agree with your judgement with going with option 1 (without ability mod damage bonus). I wouldn't bother with trying option 3 since it will likely have a similar result as option 2.
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