Since I have profficiency with theives tools and proffiency in Dextarity was I supposed to have advantage to pick locks per this?
"If you have proficiency with a tool, add your Proficiency Bonus to any ability check you make that uses the tool. If you have proficiency in a skill that’s used with that check, you have Advantage on the check too."
Or is that legacy RAW??? I get confused sometimes.
Sorry, no advantage in this instance for having proficiency in Dexterity.
With a tool proficiency of thieves' tools, you can try to pick locks. The roll is an ability check [d20+Dex+Prof].
Proficiency in Dexterity refers to saving throws.
You do, however, have heroic inspiration (which allows for an immediate reroll of any die ... although you must use the new result). Being resourceful is one of the perks of being a human. :)
Resourceful. You gain Heroic Inspiration whenever you finish a Long Rest.
can Nav try again and us her last luck of the day for advantage on the roll?
I'm sorry, no. Advantage is something one must have before the dice are thrown. (Unlike Heroic Inspiration, which allows a reroll)
Also, this is a brand new adventuring day. After a long rest, all of the abilities on Navrine's sheet should have been reset.
To your point, however, yes. For ability checks where nothing happens should you fail, trying again is generally allowed. Not so for rolls where failure has a result (like ... a failed deception roll to lie to a guard or something). I find just rolling until you pass to be inelegant, however, and I prefer failing forward.
So ... if you would like, Navrine can get the locked drawer open using her thieves' tools ... it will take 10 minutes and there will be a complication.
[Also, as an aside, failing an attempt with one method does not preclude other methods of success. One could always just smash it open.]
In the grand scheme of things for the story, this little roll doesn't matter very much. (a clue locked behind an ability check in a non-combat, non-time limited encounter) But I did want to take the time to lay out my thinking for when stuff like this comes up again.
Also This is RAW: Thieves' Tools Tool, Common In Backpack Weight: 1lb. Cost: 25 gp Source: Player’s Handbook (2024) Ability: Dexterity Utilize: Pick a lock (DC 15), or disarm a trap (DC 15) If you have proficiency with a tool, add your Proficiency Bonus to any ability check you make that uses the tool. If you have proficiency in a skill that’s used with that check, you have Advantage on the check too.
So my question is since there is no Proficency with ability scores themselves why is this in the RAW? and when would it apply? I honestly would like to know. I know DM rulings trump RAW but in MY games I would like to know when I should apply this rule. Or do I just ignore the fact that Characters cannot have proficency with Dextarity?
Do we really want to smash this desk apart???? I think picking the lock in a non distructive manor is one thing smashing the furnature is quite another thing?
But
I guess we could buy her a new one later... If it dosent cost too much. I dont know, smashing stuff up just dosent feel right to me, what about you guys?
Also This is RAW: Thieves' Tools Tool, Common In Backpack Weight: 1lb. Cost: 25 gp Source: Player’s Handbook (2024) Ability: Dexterity Utilize: Pick a lock (DC 15), or disarm a trap (DC 15) If you have proficiency with a tool, add your Proficiency Bonus to any ability check you make that uses the tool. If you have proficiency in a skill that’s used with that check, you have Advantage on the check too.
So my question is since there is no Proficency with ability scores themselves why is this in the RAW? and when would it apply? I honestly would like to know. I know DM rulings trump RAW but in MY games I would like to know when I should apply this rule. Or do I just ignore the fact that Characters cannot have proficency with Dextarity?
I think this has been changed in 2024 from 2024;
How I read it is if you use a tool to help you in a skill check you get advantage if you have proficiency in both (e.g. using mason's tools to help in finding out how old a certain building/cave e.g. is could be History+mason's tools and would be advantage if you have prof in both.
For Thieves Tool's I'd most assume this (mostly) to be combined with the sleight of hand skill.
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"grandpa" Salkur, Gnome Arti/Sorc: Forged in Chaos | Pepin, Human Arti/Cleric: Goblin horde | Mixtli, Volc Genasi Arti: Champions of the Citadel | Erix Vadalitis, Human Druid: Rising from the last war |Smithy, Human Arti: Night Ravens: Black orchids for Biscotti | Tamphalic Aliprax, Dragonborn Wizard: Chronicles of the Accursed | Doc, Dwarven Cleric (2024): Adventure at Hope's End | Abathax, Tiefling Illriger: Hunt for the Balowang | Gorin Mestel, Human Arti: Descend into Avernus
Do we really want to smash this desk apart???? I think picking the lock in a non distructive manor is one thing smashing the furnature is quite another thing?
But
I guess we could buy her a new one later... If it dosent cost too much. I dont know, smashing stuff up just dosent feel right to me, what about you guys?
Doc's not necessary looking to bash stuff open, no. I think taking the extra time to pick the lock would be the way to go.
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"grandpa" Salkur, Gnome Arti/Sorc: Forged in Chaos | Pepin, Human Arti/Cleric: Goblin horde | Mixtli, Volc Genasi Arti: Champions of the Citadel | Erix Vadalitis, Human Druid: Rising from the last war |Smithy, Human Arti: Night Ravens: Black orchids for Biscotti | Tamphalic Aliprax, Dragonborn Wizard: Chronicles of the Accursed | Doc, Dwarven Cleric (2024): Adventure at Hope's End | Abathax, Tiefling Illriger: Hunt for the Balowang | Gorin Mestel, Human Arti: Descend into Avernus
So my question is since there is no Proficency with ability scores themselves why is this in the RAW? and when would it apply? I honestly would like to know. I know DM rulings trump RAW but in MY games I would like to know when I should apply this rule. Or do I just ignore the fact that Characters cannot have proficency with Dextarity?
I think where you are getting hung up is the term 'proficient in Dexterity.' I believe that you have mistaken a saving throw proficiency for a skill proficiency.
When you throw a d20 in this game, it is called a test. There are three types of d20 tests.
Ability Checks
Saving Throws
Attack Rolls
Navrine, as a monk, is proficient in Dexterity saves. So that means that any time this character rolls a Dexterity saving throw, the roll will be d20+Dex+Prof. She gets to add her proficiency bonus, in other words, to any saving throw in which she is proficient.
But, just because Navrine is proficient in Dexterity saving throws, it does not also mean that Navrine also adds her proficiency bonus to any and every Dexterity ability check.
A character's proficiency bonus can, of course, be added to an ability check ... that is where skill proficiencies come into play.
[if a character is proficient with the tool or skill, then the proficiency bonus can be applied to the roll]
A character's proficiency bonus can, of course, be added to an attack roll ... that is where weapon proficiencies come into play.
[if a character is proficient with the weapon, then the proficiency bonus can be applied to the roll]
I'm not trying to be snarky, and I hope I have answered your question.
Yeah, you guys can figure it out.
I'll get the next scene(s) typed up. Expect tomorrow in the AM.
Do they recognize the man in the sketches? Is he the noble they met at the bar after finishing the first quest?
More than a passing resemblance, yes. The sketches could easily be Baron Adrian Thorne.
Since I have profficiency with theives tools and proffiency in Dextarity was I supposed to have advantage to pick locks per this?
"If you have proficiency with a tool, add your Proficiency Bonus to any ability check you make that uses the tool. If you have proficiency in a skill that’s used with that check, you have Advantage on the check too."
Or is that legacy RAW??? I get confused sometimes.
敬意をこめて,
ジョニー.
Keii o komete,
Johnny.
Sorry, no advantage in this instance for having proficiency in Dexterity.
With a tool proficiency of thieves' tools, you can try to pick locks. The roll is an ability check [d20+Dex+Prof].
Proficiency in Dexterity refers to saving throws.
You do, however, have heroic inspiration (which allows for an immediate reroll of any die ... although you must use the new result). Being resourceful is one of the perks of being a human. :)
Resourceful. You gain Heroic Inspiration whenever you finish a Long Rest.
The investigative scenes at the inn and cottage are just about played out, gang.
I'm ready to wind them down and move the story along. What would you like to do next?
rerolled and got a 12
敬意をこめて,
ジョニー.
Keii o komete,
Johnny.
Chromir would like to speak to Sarael before leaving.
After that, I think the noble is our only real lead. Cora probably knows something but not as far as Chromir is concerned.
After joining more my signature got out of hand so I am now a proud member of the extended signature club!! :)
The drawer remains stubbornly locked.
Cool, cool. We have time for that.
can Nav try again and us her last luck of the day for advantage on the roll?
敬意をこめて,
ジョニー.
Keii o komete,
Johnny.
I'm sorry, no. Advantage is something one must have before the dice are thrown. (Unlike Heroic Inspiration, which allows a reroll)
Also, this is a brand new adventuring day. After a long rest, all of the abilities on Navrine's sheet should have been reset.
To your point, however, yes. For ability checks where nothing happens should you fail, trying again is generally allowed. Not so for rolls where failure has a result (like ... a failed deception roll to lie to a guard or something). I find just rolling until you pass to be inelegant, however, and I prefer failing forward.
So ... if you would like, Navrine can get the locked drawer open using her thieves' tools ... it will take 10 minutes and there will be a complication.
[Also, as an aside, failing an attempt with one method does not preclude other methods of success. One could always just smash it open.]
In the grand scheme of things for the story, this little roll doesn't matter very much. (a clue locked behind an ability check in a non-combat, non-time limited encounter) But I did want to take the time to lay out my thinking for when stuff like this comes up again.
Actually:
You have 2 Luck Points that you can spend on the benefits below. You regain expended Luck Points after a Long Rest.
Advantage. When you roll a for a Test, you can spend 1 Luck Point to give yourself Advantage on the roll.
Disadvantage. When a creature rolls a for an attack roll against you, you can spend 1 Luck Point to impose Disadvantage on that roll.
敬意をこめて,
ジョニー.
Keii o komete,
Johnny.
Also This is RAW:
Thieves' Tools
Tool, Common
In Backpack
Weight: 1lb.
Cost: 25 gp
Source: Player’s Handbook (2024)
Ability: Dexterity
Utilize: Pick a lock (DC 15), or disarm a trap (DC 15)
If you have proficiency with a tool, add your Proficiency Bonus to any ability check you make that uses the tool. If you have proficiency in a skill that’s used with that check, you have Advantage on the check too.
So my question is since there is no Proficency with ability scores themselves why is this in the RAW? and when would it apply? I honestly would like to know. I know DM rulings trump RAW but in MY games I would like to know when I should apply this rule. Or do I just ignore the fact that Characters cannot have proficency with Dextarity?
敬意をこめて,
ジョニー.
Keii o komete,
Johnny.
Do we really want to smash this desk apart???? I think picking the lock in a non distructive manor is one thing smashing the furnature is quite another thing?
But
I guess we could buy her a new one later... If it dosent cost too much. I dont know, smashing stuff up just dosent feel right to me, what about you guys?
敬意をこめて,
ジョニー.
Keii o komete,
Johnny.
I'm a little unclear on the point you are trying to make, Johnny2136.
EDIT — Apologies. We cross posted. I was replying to msg#398 when I posted this and had not yet seen msg#399 or msg#400
Cass would feel bad, but if we have no other choice...Maybe we can try finding the key to it first? Then smash it if we can't lol.
I think this has been changed in 2024 from 2024;
How I read it is if you use a tool to help you in a skill check you get advantage if you have proficiency in both (e.g. using mason's tools to help in finding out how old a certain building/cave e.g. is could be History+mason's tools and would be advantage if you have prof in both.
For Thieves Tool's I'd most assume this (mostly) to be combined with the sleight of hand skill.
"grandpa" Salkur, Gnome Arti/Sorc: Forged in Chaos | Pepin, Human Arti/Cleric: Goblin horde | Mixtli, Volc Genasi Arti: Champions of the Citadel | Erix Vadalitis, Human Druid: Rising from the last war | Smithy, Human Arti: Night Ravens: Black orchids for Biscotti | Tamphalic Aliprax, Dragonborn Wizard: Chronicles of the Accursed | Doc, Dwarven Cleric (2024): Adventure at Hope's End | Abathax, Tiefling Illriger: Hunt for the Balowang | Gorin Mestel, Human Arti: Descend into Avernus
Doc's not necessary looking to bash stuff open, no. I think taking the extra time to pick the lock would be the way to go.
"grandpa" Salkur, Gnome Arti/Sorc: Forged in Chaos | Pepin, Human Arti/Cleric: Goblin horde | Mixtli, Volc Genasi Arti: Champions of the Citadel | Erix Vadalitis, Human Druid: Rising from the last war | Smithy, Human Arti: Night Ravens: Black orchids for Biscotti | Tamphalic Aliprax, Dragonborn Wizard: Chronicles of the Accursed | Doc, Dwarven Cleric (2024): Adventure at Hope's End | Abathax, Tiefling Illriger: Hunt for the Balowang | Gorin Mestel, Human Arti: Descend into Avernus
I think where you are getting hung up is the term 'proficient in Dexterity.' I believe that you have mistaken a saving throw proficiency for a skill proficiency.
When you throw a d20 in this game, it is called a test. There are three types of d20 tests.
Navrine, as a monk, is proficient in Dexterity saves. So that means that any time this character rolls a Dexterity saving throw, the roll will be d20+Dex+Prof. She gets to add her proficiency bonus, in other words, to any saving throw in which she is proficient.
But, just because Navrine is proficient in Dexterity saving throws, it does not also mean that Navrine also adds her proficiency bonus to any and every Dexterity ability check.
A character's proficiency bonus can, of course, be added to an ability check ... that is where skill proficiencies come into play.
[if a character is proficient with the tool or skill, then the proficiency bonus can be applied to the roll]
A character's proficiency bonus can, of course, be added to an attack roll ... that is where weapon proficiencies come into play.
[if a character is proficient with the weapon, then the proficiency bonus can be applied to the roll]
I'm not trying to be snarky, and I hope I have answered your question.
Oh, I just saw that DM wants to wind the scene down. Cass has higher Athletics, so he can smash it open with help from Navrine. Will update my post.