Brand nods, "Well, I have to say I am envious!"

"But, as to your question, my time is hard to predict, but I shall try for the same time tomorrow."

He bows bows slightly to the man, and leaves.

[[ Any chance of a structure map of the areas we have covered so far; I could build it by scouring the forums, but you know it well. What I would like is blobs, with 'Home', 'Temple District', '[Current] District', ''Bank of Engle District', 'Scolars Ward' (and ideally others) with a rough ide of travel times between each?

But in the mean time:

- What time of day is it?
- How far to Bank of Engle?
- How far to school and to bookshop?
- How far to Armorer?
- How far to weapon smith?
- How far to a service that can deliver messages to Ilbarsis? Would that be Assam?
- How far to someone who might sell wire? (looking for trip wire)

Edit: and add : Which ones are on the way to or near others, if any?

]]

Edit2: Before he leaves, Brand would also ask: "Do you happen to know a good armorer? Someone who is as capable as you are with clothes, but who deals in armour?"

[[ Here's all I can remeber, times are normal walking

Home -> Temple (10 min) [adjacent to : Home and Scholars]
Home-> Scholars (20 min) [ Adjacent to: Home and Temple]
Home -> XXX (more cant recall) [Adjacent to: ???]]

Bank of Sorendon is in Temple area
Bookshop and School in Scholars

Obviously, considerable holes!]]

Edit: Other areas:

- Western End
- Rawl Fight area (residential)
- Palace

Edit 2: If it's nearing lunch time (probably not), Brand will head to the School for his lunch with Minton; he will be on the look out for the guard that were there last time, and if there, he will approach the 'one who is assigned to watching the school.

Quote from AlaricBrand >>

[[Did Brand not give a name on purpose, or did you not get the implication that the tailor was asking for a name to call his customer by?]]

Brand nods, "Well, I have to say I am envious!"

"But, as to your question, my time is hard to predict, but I shall try for the same time tomorrow."

He bows bows slightly to the man, and leaves.

[[ Any chance of a structure map of the areas we have covered so far; I could build it by scouring the forums, but you know it well. What I would like is blobs, with 'Home', 'Temple District', '[Current] District', ''Bank of Engle District', 'Scolars Ward' (and ideally others) with a rough ide of travel times between each?

[[I tried my hand doing a map on my tablet and threw the result away in disgust. Will try again another time.]]

But in the mean time:

- What time of day is it?

[[By my reckoning, its about a candle before lunch.]]

- How far to school and to bookshop?

[[The School and the bookshop are in the Scholar's Ward, which is across the tributary that lies to the north of the reach of the river the Brand residency is on. On foot moving with the traffic it will take at least twenty to twenty-five minutes and you will need to either cross the bridge or take one of the many ferrys.]]

- How far to Bank of Engle?
- How far to Armorer?
- How far to weapon smith?
- How far to a service that can deliver messages to Ilbarsis? Would that be Assam?
- How far to someone who might sell wire? (looking for trip wire)

Edit: and add : Which ones are on the way to or near others, if any?

[[All of the above services can be found in the mercantile area in which the tailor that Brand has just left is situated, though Master Assam's main office is in the Scholar's Ward. They would all be within a couple of minutes of where he is now.]]

]]

Edit2: Before he leaves, Brand would also ask: "Do you happen to know a good armorer? Someone who is as capable as you are with clothes, but who deals in armour?"

The tailor says that he doesn't know much of anything about armourers, but the fellow across the street and down a few shops seems to have a regular stream of clientele entering his shop.

[[I'm tired. Night.]]

Brand head to the armourer. He will look at the wares and make an assessment of their quality for himself.

When he has the opportunity he will ask if they are aware of any armour that provices the same level of flexibility as his current armour but is less obtrusive? Or any way that such a thing might be made?

Edit: Just saw this:

[[Did Brand not give a name on purpose, or did you not get the implication that the tailor was asking for a name to call his customer by?]]

He did not give a name on purpose; I assume he has some probability of being recognized, but did not want to give it unnecessarily. Same reason he did not sign or use the signet. If it would be completely odd in the circumstances (I tried to make it look like he merely overlooked it because of his preoccupation with the sorecery stuff), then he would say his name is Alaric.

[[I tried my hand doing a map on my tablet and threw the result away in disgust. Will try again another time.]]

I don't want anything pretty! I just have no clue what is adjacent to what, or where the places he has been in the last 24 hours are in relation to each other. I don't even recall the ward the residence is in.

Something like this would be perfect:

(Edit: ie. a connection map, not a map with scale and north etc. The river shaps does not even matter, so long as it reflects where it is  a barrier)

Quote from AlaricBrand >>

Brand head to the armourer. He will look at the wares and make an assessment of their quality for himself.

When he has the opportunity he will ask if they are aware of any armour that provices the same level of flexibility as his current armour but is less obtrusive? Or any way that such a thing might be made?

Edit: Just saw this:

[[Did Brand not give a name on purpose, or did you not get the implication that the tailor was asking for a name to call his customer by?]]

He did not give a name on purpose; I assume he has some probability of being recognized, but did not want to give it unnecessarily. Same reason he did not sign or use the signet. If it would be completely odd in the circumstances (I tried to make it look like he merely overlooked it because of his preoccupation with the sorecery stuff), then he would say his name is Alaric.

[[Cool. I just needed to know.]]

The armourer's is open to the air at the sides and coming from the depths of the establishment Brand can hear the sound of metal ringing on metal. There is also a hot metal smell but, perhaps strangely, there is no sign of any smoke.

Laid out on tables at the front of the shop are a range of pieces of armour, the more valuable items further in. These items range from leather gloves and caps at the front through to metal shields and breastplates towards the rear.

As Brand is checking the quality of the items of leather armour nearest the street, an elderly man in robes who has a wispy white beard approaches him from the depths of the shop.

"Good day, good sir," he says, looking over Brand's armour. "Might I ask where you got that armour?"

Brand is fairly sure the man is just trying to start up a conversation in the time-honoured tradition of any salesman trying to establish a rapport with a potential customer.

[[However, Brand will need to make an Investigation check to make an assessment of the quality of the armour.]]

[[Will address your other posts when I get the chance, but with regard to your mud map, the Scholar's Ward is north of the Temple District and there is another branch of the river between the two of them.]]

Investigation: 18

[[ So, with a passive of 15, what does the roll do? If I roll 1, what is the interpretation? Opportunities for xp are good, but confusing. ]]

Quote from AlaricBrand >>

Investigation: 21

[[The armour looks to be of good quality, but it not the best he has seen by a long shot, i.e., the king's armourers do better for their specialised items and, if Brand's current armour was bought in New Nineveh (Was it?), then it is of better quality.]]

[[ So, with a passive of 15, what does the roll do? If I roll 1, what is the interpretation? Opportunities for xp are good, but confusing. ]]

[[I gave you a roll because you specifically said that Brand was checking the quality and so the passive value wouldn't apply. If you had rolled a 1, I would have given you an incorrect estimation and the assumption is that the character would act as if they believed that estimation: the difference between role playing and roll playing. In my system, the failed experience roll and the eventual determination that the estimation had been incorrect is how the character earns their experience points.]]

[I gave you a roll because you specifically said that Brand was checking the quality

[[ Does that mean I can refuse the roll? Or is there some wording I can use that says "I'm just getting a general impression of the quality of the goods" that does not mean I do anything other than a integrative (passive) impression? I liked the old take-10 and take-20 model. Passive should be a low watermark, ISTM, if time is not critical, or I'm not looking for flaws in a specific item. Also, in the past, when I've asked more general questions (like keeping an eye out for A, B and C), the result has been a roll at disadvantage...so specific vs general does not seem to be the main rule.

Re: the store: does your answer mean he knows a better place in Constantine? I think you did say he knew of an armorer earlier, he just asked the tailor in case he had a better option (or did armour as well). ]]

[[ Is this any better? ]]

Let me know what's wrong and I will try to fix; also...some questions:

- any other wards between Home and Scholars?
- What is on route to South gate (where he came in, I think....or was it the west gate)?

Quote from AlaricBrand >>

[I gave you a roll because you specifically said that Brand was checking the quality

[[ Does that mean I can refuse the roll? Or is there some wording I can use that says "I'm just getting a general impression of the quality of the goods" that does not mean I do anything other than a integrative (passive) impression? I liked the old take-10 and take-20 model. Passive should be a low watermark, ISTM, if time is not critical, or I'm not looking for flaws in a specific item. Also, in the past, when I've asked more general questions (like keeping an eye out for A, B and C), the result has been a roll at disadvantage...so specific vs general does not seem to be the main rule.

[[With regard to refusing a roll, I don't think so. It's part of the game and something that passive ability scores can't cover. The referee needs some sort of queue/method to be able to lead the players to information they may be interested in, but don't know anything about as yet. They also needs to do this on a systematic basis so that the players don't automatically assume that there must be something important here because the referee asked them to roll dice. This was a case of the latter, and was also because I needed some indication of the quality of Brand's assessment.

I am loathed to make the passive ability score the low-water mark because it is effectively giving the player Advantage on the roll and means they can't therefore fail atrociously, which comes back to the difference between role playing and roll playing; having a character live out the consequences of a failed roll can lead to all sorts of interesting gaming situations, in my experience.

I'm also not a fan of the take-10 and take-20 model because it assumes the character is an expert and will eventually get the result the player wants if they take long enough, which in many situations can't be the case. For example, in the case of the Investigation check here, considering Brand doesn't have proficiency in any form of armour-making, he could be missing the bleeding obvious because he doesn't know better and no amount of time taken should change that; therefore, a roll is needed to determine not the quality of his assessment.]]

Re: the store: does your answer mean he knows a better place in Constantine? I think you did say he knew of an armorer earlier, he just asked the tailor in case he had a better option (or did armour as well). ]]

[[Brand does know another publicly accessible armourer in Constantine who he believes is of similar quality as this place... At least they used to be, back in the day. He would have to return to that place to check that that is still the case. The name of this armourer is 'Smith & Sons' and it is near Portside (i.e., the port area of the city to the east).]]

[[ Re: Passive etc...here's my take, but I'm happy to live with your interpretation:

It's probably part of your rule modifications to deal with solo play, and I'm still trying to get a feel for that. In a party, you get almost half a dozen rolls that mean, even an incompetent person will say "yeah...nah...that's a bomb, I reckon"  ... or similar, despite the expert fumble that says it's OK to press the big red button.

I also get the idea of leading players to interesting stuff, but I'm not at all sure that failed rolls are the best way: That's more like trapping players into stuff they will regret.

And yes, this: "basis so that the players don't automatically assume that there must be something important here because the referee asked them to roll dice" is absolutely true. I think I said before that I'd prefer you make those rolls for me; just tell me I got some XP a few moves later.

Regarding "quality" of information, I agree also, but in the most recent context, the base was 15 so if a 1 was rolled it might mean he gets told, "He thinks the stuff looks fine" (a true statement), a whereas the 21 gets him the kind of detail you gave and the possibility to notice that some of it is clearly second hand (say). Both contain the same reasonable baseline (15); in the former he misses out on the higher insights, but he doesn't get it completely wrong. Getting it wrong based on one roll is what I think you are arguing for, and what I dislike.

Failing atrociously is another matter: in some sense that's what fumbles are for. I'd probably be happy if take-10 were used and you secretly rolled to see if I fumbled. Bearing in mind DC 5/10/15 are Very Easy/Easy/Moderate, taking 10 for Brand means he succeeds on moderate Investigation tasks. That does not seem bad to me. Where rolls time-critical or very specific events (pick lock NOW, hit the dude, make a snap judgement about the veracity of a statement), he should roll (maybe, though take-10 + fumble might also be good). Browsing the wares of a shop seems to me a whole other world.

Take-10 and take-20 (the latter is probably bad) don't assume the player is expert, they assume the player can achieve their level of competency when not under pressure and given time. In Brand's case, if given time and under no pressure (eg. shopping), he can achieve 'Moderate' difficultly investigation results. This does not seem bad to me; especially if you have a secret fumble roll.

With regard to armor making, I think that is a red herring. Brand uses armour; he can say "these are the sort of straps that break", "this plate is too low for my size", "these are cheap fittings used by the army". But you are right that he could not tell the way the metal/leather had been worked was flawed...at least without a roll. In this case, I assume the shop would be trying to deceive him and a roll with a high DC (above 'Moderate') would be appropriate.

Broadly, my difficulty with this is exactly that a proficiency becomes a lottery, not a bedrock. I (me) don't fail to integrate polynomial equations 25%-50% of the time; but I probably do fumble occasionally. Give me time and I will do more complex stuff, but without access to books I will think "not sure, I should check that". ie. I will probably know that this is above my pay grade and "make a roll".

"Good day, good sir," he says, looking over Brand's armour. "Might I ask where you got that armour?"

Brand is fairly sure the man is just trying to start up a conversation in the time-honoured tradition of any salesman trying to establish a rapport with a potential customer.

"This?" he asks, gesturing to his torso. "Down south. But I also have some leather from Ilbarsis, and some chain and some older leather from here in Constantine." [[ Pretty sure he had leather and chain before, the studded is new (in that it's DnD5e), so probably came from NN. I assume he also has training stuff from his youth that was purchased locally.]]

"I was in fact wondering is there was anything that might be as effective as this, but less...obtrusive? My chain is good, but damnably heavy, and my leather...well, it's not as protective. I'd like both: Is there aught to be done?"

Quote from AlaricBrand >>

[[ Is this any better? ]]

Let me know what's wrong and I will try to fix; also...some questions:

- any other wards between Home and Scholars?
- What is on route to South gate (where he came in, I think....or was it the west gate)?

[[I have put up a general section map on the World site. You should see it on the home page. It's incomplete, and for the moment I don't know any more details, but it should answer your immediate questions.]]

[[I have put up a general section map on the World site. You should see it on the home page. It's incomplete, and for the moment I don't know any more details, but it should answer your immediate questions.]]

Looks good! And really helps. Thank you! I didn't realize Western District was over a bridge as well. I thought it was a bridge to residential and west to Wstern End and Lumber area, so it's good to get that cleared up.

Just two questions:

- Where is XXX?
- Where is gate to river crossing (by which he entered town)

[[I have updated the map again with a larger area, more detail, and areas I forgot, but have been mentioned or implied already during play.]]

[[But now it's time for bed. I start back at ASTA tomorrow. Boo!]]

[[ Looks excellent. Only remaining question from my PoV is what route did he take from Estate to Home (via Western End?) and where is XXX ? (The seedy inn where he might meet his guild mentor ]]

Quote from AlaricBrand >>

[[ Looks excellent. Only remaining question from my PoV is what route did he take from Estate to Home (via Western End?) and where is XXX ? (The seedy inn where he might meet his guild mentor ]]

[[There are still details to be added, but the Brand estate lies south of Constantine and to get there from the Brand estate by road you would need to head west to cross the bridge near where the fight with Rawl took place. After crossing the bridge you head east again on another road and then turn south and east to eventually reach the Southern Crossing (these roads aren't on the map yet) where you need to cross the ferry to continue south on the coast road towards the estate at the border of the country. The reason for this round-about route is because the southern bank of the river opposite the palace is a large nature reserve which becomes a salt marsh on its eastern end. This area has been left undeveloped by the king, except for a small fishing community on the southern side of that tributary at the mouth.

The XXX tavern where you last saw Dalshan is in Portside, though please remember that there is no thieves guild as such. Dalshan may have been your mentor, but he was just a member of a criminal gang. Do you have any preference for a name, or should I make one up.]]

[[ Hmmm...gang names...happy for you to make one up but I'd be happy with any of these:

- The Admiralty ("Nothing happens on the ports without clearance from the admiralty")

- The Sailors Union/League (Possible historical authenticity, fluctuating between extortion and guild status [[ in a world without such things officially]] )

- The Captains [Club]

- The Port Masters

- The Salts]]

[[ Also, you may have missed the move at the end of this post ]]

"This?" he asks, gesturing to his torso. "Down south. But I also have some leather from Ilbarsis, and some chain and some older leather from here in Constantine." [[ Pretty sure he had leather and chain before, the studded is new (in that it's DnD5e), so probably came from NN. I assume he also has training stuff from his youth that was purchased locally.]]

"I was in fact wondering is there was anything that might be as effective as this, but less...obtrusive? My chain is good, but damnably heavy, and my leather...well, it's not as protective. I'd like both: Is there aught to be done?"

[[Sorry. Yes, I did miss this.]]

"Down south, you say," says the elderly man, his interest piqued even more. He then moves in close so that he is within six inches of Brand and starts investigating the leather armour while scrunching his eyes up.

"Is this from New Nineveh?" he asks, and then adds quickly, "Would you be interested in selling it?"

Quote from AlaricBrand >>

[[ Hmmm...gang names...happy for you to make one up but I'd be happy with any of these:

- The Admiralty ("Nothing happens on the ports without clearance from the admiralty")

- The Sailors Union/League (Possible historical authenticity, fluctuating between extortion and guild status [[ in a world without such things officially]] )

- The Captains [Club]

- The Port Masters

- The Salts]]

[[ Also, you may have missed the move at the end of this post ]]

[[I have chosen the last as the name of the gang and changed the name of the tavern from 'XXX' to 'The Salted Meet'. You can see some hyperlinked early versions of some articles on these entities on the World Site (Look under 'Miscellaneous things' for 'The Salts'), and now I should do some work. Please don't rush there immediately as I have a lot of work to do to flesh that aspect of the campaign out.]]