Familiars can make attack rolls and deal damage through other means without taking the attack action.
This is just not the case, as has been emphasized a number of times. A familiar cannot attack, period. It has absolutely nothingto do with the Attack action.
Familiars cannot throw acid as it involves making an attack.
Familiars cannot make opportunity attacks with their reaction, as it involves making an attack.
If you somehow grant the familiar access to spellcasting, it cannot use the "cast a spell" action to cast firebolt, as that involves making an attack. Nor could it use a Flame Blade or Spiritual weapon to make attacks.
The only exceptions to the rule are explicitly spelled out, like Pact of the Chain.
Familiars can make attack rolls and deal damage through other means without taking the attack action.
This is just not the case, as has been emphasized a number of times. A familiar cannot attack, period. It has absolutely nothingto do with the Attack action.
Familiars cannot throw acid as it involves making an attack.
Familiars cannot make opportunity attacks with their reaction, as it involves making an attack.
If you somehow grant the familiar access to spellcasting, it cannot use the "cast a spell" action to cast firebolt, as that involves making an attack. Nor could it use a Flame Blade or Spiritual weapon to make attacks.
The only exceptions to the rule are explicitly spelled out, like Pact of the Chain.
The main exception is that they can deliver touch spells even if they require attack rolls.
But pact of the chain and some of its invocations does have a few more.
Okay, so, interactions with familiars aside... the consensus was mostly that Magic Stone (both with or without sling, yourself or a third party), is used with Attack or other actions/bonus actions/reactions that use weapons, not with [Tooltip Not Found]. Plenty of stuff still to hash out about range, whether it’s a spell attack made with a ranged weapon, etc... but at the most basic level, use it like a weapon, not like an acid flask.
Okay, so, interactions with familiars aside... the consensus was mostly that Magic Stone (both with or without sling, yourself or a third party), is used with Attack or other actions/bonus actions/reactions that use weapons, not with Use an Object. Plenty of stuff still to hash out about range, whether it’s a spell attack made with a ranged weapon, etc... but at the most basic level, use it like a weapon, not like an acid flask.
Yup, that is correct. You are not granted a special action of any sort. The Attack action is going to be the most common way for you to use it.
Look at it this way, if you threw a regular rock at somebody it would be a standard attack with an improvised weapon. That would use the Attack action. Why should it not still use the Attack action just because you use a magic rock?!?
However, despite the fact that Magic Stone clearly states it is a “spell attack,” if you use a sling then it is clearly “an attack made using a ranged weapon.” Therefore it can benefit from Sneak Attack, and from the damage boosting bullet point of the Sharpshooter feat.
Beginning at 1st level, you know how to strike subtly and exploit a foe’s distraction. Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon.
You don’t need advantage on the attack roll if another enemy of the target is within 5 feet of it, that enemy isn’t incapacitated, and you don’t have disadvantage on the attack roll.
The amount of the extra damage increases as you gain levels in this class, as shown in the Sneak Attack column of the Rogue table.
You have mastered ranged weapons and can make shots that others find impossible. You gain the following benefits:
Attacking at long range doesn't impose disadvantage on your ranged weapon attack rolls.
Your ranged weapon attacks ignore half cover and three-quarters cover.
Before you make an attack with a ranged weapon that you are proficient with, you can choose to take a -5 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits, you add +10 to the attack's damage.
As simply as the rules have already stated it. Familiars cannot take the attack action. They can however take any and all other kinds of actions and through them might even end up making an attack roll.
If a wizard casts firebolt he has chosen to cast a spell for his action. The spell then calls for a magic ranged attack to hit. This does not mean the wizard has taken the attack action and nothing dependent on that triggers.
Same for a familiar.
The only action they cannot take is the attack action.
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As simply as the rules have already stated it. Familiars cannot take the attack action. They can however take any and all other kinds of actions and through them might even end up making an attack roll.
If a wizard casts firebolt he has chosen to cast a spell for his action. The spell then calls for a magic ranged attack to hit. This does not mean the wizard has taken the attack action and nothing dependent on that triggers.
Same for a familiar.
The only action they cannot take is the attack action.
No. read it again. The familiar cannot attack. There is no prohibition on the kinds of action the familiar can take, the prohibition is on attacking. This is why a familiar cannot use a magic stone no matter what we decide on which action using it is; because using the stone is an attack.
As simply as the rules have already stated it. Familiars cannot take the attack action. They can however take any and all other kinds of actions and through them might even end up making an attack roll.
If a wizard casts firebolt he has chosen to cast a spell for his action. The spell then calls for a magic ranged attack to hit. This does not mean the wizard has taken the attack action and nothing dependent on that triggers.
Same for a familiar.
The only action they cannot take is the attack action.
No. read it again. The familiar cannot attack. There is no prohibition on the kinds of action the familiar can take, the prohibition is on attacking. This is why a familiar cannot use a magic stone no matter what we decide on which action using it is; because using the stone is an attack.
And besides that, magic stone doesn't grant an action, so the familiar would need to take the attack action to throw it anyway.
So that is 2 reasons to stop talking about familiars in this discussion.
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This is just not the case, as has been emphasized a number of times. A familiar cannot attack, period. It has absolutely nothing to do with the Attack action.
Familiars cannot throw acid as it involves making an attack.
Familiars cannot make opportunity attacks with their reaction, as it involves making an attack.
If you somehow grant the familiar access to spellcasting, it cannot use the "cast a spell" action to cast firebolt, as that involves making an attack. Nor could it use a Flame Blade or Spiritual weapon to make attacks.
The only exceptions to the rule are explicitly spelled out, like Pact of the Chain.
The main exception is that they can deliver touch spells even if they require attack rolls.
But pact of the chain and some of its invocations does have a few more.
Yep you're right, I consider that part of 'explicitly spelled out'.
Okay, so, interactions with familiars aside... the consensus was mostly that Magic Stone (both with or without sling, yourself or a third party), is used with Attack or other actions/bonus actions/reactions that use weapons, not with [Tooltip Not Found]. Plenty of stuff still to hash out about range, whether it’s a spell attack made with a ranged weapon, etc... but at the most basic level, use it like a weapon, not like an acid flask.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Yup, that is correct. You are not granted a special action of any sort. The Attack action is going to be the most common way for you to use it.
Look at it this way, if you threw a regular rock at somebody it would be a standard attack with an improvised weapon. That would use the Attack action. Why should it not still use the Attack action just because you use a magic rock?!?
However, despite the fact that Magic Stone clearly states it is a “spell attack,” if you use a sling then it is clearly “an attack made using a ranged weapon.” Therefore it can benefit from Sneak Attack, and from the damage boosting bullet point of the Sharpshooter feat.
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As simply as the rules have already stated it. Familiars cannot take the attack action. They can however take any and all other kinds of actions and through them might even end up making an attack roll.
If a wizard casts firebolt he has chosen to cast a spell for his action. The spell then calls for a magic ranged attack to hit. This does not mean the wizard has taken the attack action and nothing dependent on that triggers.
Same for a familiar.
The only action they cannot take is the attack action.
No. read it again. The familiar cannot attack. There is no prohibition on the kinds of action the familiar can take, the prohibition is on attacking. This is why a familiar cannot use a magic stone no matter what we decide on which action using it is; because using the stone is an attack.
And besides that, magic stone doesn't grant an action, so the familiar would need to take the attack action to throw it anyway.
So that is 2 reasons to stop talking about familiars in this discussion.