If they are surprised, then yes, they will be damaged at the end of their wasted turn.
The question is, should they be surprised? I would not allow a patrol that is patrolling to be easily surprised. I would grant an ambushing party advantage on initiative, or even guaranteed first turn, but probably not surprise. In my opinion, surprise is reserved for opponents not ready for or expecting battle at all. If the same group of soldiers were drinking and laughing together around a fireplace when you attacked then they would be surprised and scrambling to get their weapons ready while the fire ball burns them a bit.
The question is, should they be surprised? I would not allow a patrol that is patrolling to be easily surprised. I would grant an ambushing party advantage on initiative, or even guaranteed first turn, but probably not surprise. In my opinion, surprise is reserved for opponents not ready for or expecting battle at all. If the same group of soldiers were drinking and laughing together around a fireplace when you attacked then they would be surprised and scrambling to get their weapons ready while the fire ball burns them a bit.
^ Always remember that DMs like this exist before thinking about building an Assassin.... :|
Coldloki, you are correct about how it SHOULD work by RAW: surprised enemies still take turns in the initiative order, but simply can't move or act on their first turn if surprised. In practice, a lot of DMs hand waive that away and just let their players get "a free turn" before the first round of initiative, which would basically rob you of an entire round of damage. Just be careful that your DM isn't houseruling surprise in a way that is going to secretly nerf the usefulness of "start their turn/end their turn" effects like Flaming Sphere in that first surprise round.
Surprised rules are a pain. Since the guards were actively patrolling, they should probably have +5 (advantage) to their passive perception vs party stealth rolls.
[Edit]Nevermind, there isn't support for that in the rules.
Surprised rules are a pain. Since the guards were actively patrolling, they should probably have +5 (advantage) to their passive perception vs party stealth rolls.
Are you going to grant the party +5 to passive perception, too, when they're actively paying attention, which is how all dungeon crawls work?
Surprised rules are a pain. Since the guards were actively patrolling, they should probably have +5 (advantage) to their passive perception vs party stealth rolls.
Are you going to grant the party +5 to passive perception, too, when they're actively paying attention, which is how all dungeon crawls work?
You made me double check the activity while traveling rules. There is no "searching" activity or anything that grants advantage on perception, so I take back what I said about advantage, and double down on surprise being a pain.
The question is, should they be surprised? I would not allow a patrol that is patrolling to be easily surprised. I would grant an ambushing party advantage on initiative, or even guaranteed first turn, but probably not surprise. In my opinion, surprise is reserved for opponents not ready for or expecting battle at all. If the same group of soldiers were drinking and laughing together around a fireplace when you attacked then they would be surprised and scrambling to get their weapons ready while the fire ball burns them a bit.
Has the patrolling patrol been told that there is an enemy nearby?
If not, then they will just be walking along as they have done for the previous X years not expecting anything unusual to happen today.
The question is, should they be surprised? I would not allow a patrol that is patrolling to be easily surprised. I would grant an ambushing party advantage on initiative, or even guaranteed first turn, but probably not surprise. In my opinion, surprise is reserved for opponents not ready for or expecting battle at all. If the same group of soldiers were drinking and laughing together around a fireplace when you attacked then they would be surprised and scrambling to get their weapons ready while the fire ball burns them a bit.
Has the patrolling patrol been told that there is an enemy nearby?
If not, then they will just be walking along as they have done for the previous X years not expecting anything unusual to happen today.
The surprise mechanic is about being under attack before you noticed, not just being startled.
As a security guard myself, I can tell you that I don't expect anything to happen on patrols and I would be startled if something did, but that doesn't mean I don't notice things until they are right in front of me, just the opposite.
5e originally planned to have alertness levels that adjusted perception checks (we know this because HotDQ made some mentions of them), but since we don't have these there aren't as many rules for this situation.
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Hi everyone,
my player asked me if he create Flaming Sphere (FS) in the middle of surprised patrol, will they get damaged?
PHB says: If you're surprised, you can't move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can't take a reaction until that turn ends.
FS spell text: Any creature that ends its turn within 5 feet of the sphere must make a Dexterity saving throw.
If they can’t move, they will finish their turn next to FS and get damage.
Am I judging it correctly? It is just hard to imagine that you can surprise anyone with small sun appearing next to them...
If they are surprised, then yes, they will be damaged at the end of their wasted turn.
The question is, should they be surprised? I would not allow a patrol that is patrolling to be easily surprised. I would grant an ambushing party advantage on initiative, or even guaranteed first turn, but probably not surprise. In my opinion, surprise is reserved for opponents not ready for or expecting battle at all. If the same group of soldiers were drinking and laughing together around a fireplace when you attacked then they would be surprised and scrambling to get their weapons ready while the fire ball burns them a bit.
A small sun appearing next to you is pretty surprising when you didn't notice any threats at all.
^ Always remember that DMs like this exist before thinking about building an Assassin.... :|
Coldloki, you are correct about how it SHOULD work by RAW: surprised enemies still take turns in the initiative order, but simply can't move or act on their first turn if surprised. In practice, a lot of DMs hand waive that away and just let their players get "a free turn" before the first round of initiative, which would basically rob you of an entire round of damage. Just be careful that your DM isn't houseruling surprise in a way that is going to secretly nerf the usefulness of "start their turn/end their turn" effects like Flaming Sphere in that first surprise round.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Fair enough ^_^
Surprised rules are a pain.
Since the guards were actively patrolling, they should probably have +5 (advantage) to their passive perception vs party stealth rolls.[Edit]Nevermind, there isn't support for that in the rules.
Are you going to grant the party +5 to passive perception, too, when they're actively paying attention, which is how all dungeon crawls work?
You made me double check the activity while traveling rules. There is no "searching" activity or anything that grants advantage on perception, so I take back what I said about advantage, and double down on surprise being a pain.
Has the patrolling patrol been told that there is an enemy nearby?
If not, then they will just be walking along as they have done for the previous X years not expecting anything unusual to happen today.
The surprise mechanic is about being under attack before you noticed, not just being startled.
As a security guard myself, I can tell you that I don't expect anything to happen on patrols and I would be startled if something did, but that doesn't mean I don't notice things until they are right in front of me, just the opposite.
5e originally planned to have alertness levels that adjusted perception checks (we know this because HotDQ made some mentions of them), but since we don't have these there aren't as many rules for this situation.