Just confirming that my interpretation of a feat/class interaction is correct as a player has questioned it (they're happy with my take, but I'd like to check that I'm reading it correctly). Input welcomed, especially with citations to back them up.
The Fey-touched (and Shadow-touched) feats (and by inference this also applies to others that also grant additional spellcasting) state:
Your exposure to the Feywild’s magic has changed you, granting you the following benefits:
Increase your Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
You learn the misty step spell and one 1st-level spell of your choice. The 1st-level spell must be from the divination or enchantment school of magic. You can cast each of these spells without expending a spell slot. Once you cast either of these spells in this way, you can’t cast that spell in this way again until you finish a long rest. You can also cast these spells using spell slots you have of the appropriate level. The spells’ spellcasting ability is the ability increased by this feat.
and:
Your exposure to the Shadowfell’s magic has changed you, granting you the following benefits:
Increase your Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma score by 1, to a maximum of 20. You learn the invisibility spell and one 1st-level spell of your choice. The 1st-level spell must be from the illusion or necromancy school of magic. You can cast each of these spells without expending a spell slot. Once you cast either of these spells in this way, you can’t cast that spell in this way again until you finish a long rest. You can also cast these spells using spell slots you have of the appropriate level. The spells’ spellcasting ability is the ability increased by this feat.
I'm presuming that the bonus 1st level spell (Div/Enc or Ill/Nec as appropriate) will be cast at 1st level only, and will not get boosted to the higher level casting that a warlock would normally cast at, UNLESS it is being cast using a spell slot (and will therefore be boosted to maximum level castable for a warlock; other spellcasters using spell slots would boost or not, depending on what slot they used)
My understanding of this is that because the bonus 1st level spell granted by the feat (flavour-wise it's going to be from a tainted heritage, interaction with (or access to) strange magic, whatever - is RAI intended to indicate minor magic ability appropriate to said interaction) doesn't use a spell slot it cannot therefore be cast at the maximum spell level the warlock has access to.
Under the Warlock's Pact Magic description:
Spell Slots The Warlock table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your warlock spells of 1st through 5th level. The table also shows what the level of those slots is; all of your spell slots are the same level. To cast one of your warlock spells of 1st level or higher, you must expend a spell slot. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a short or long rest.
As the spell granted from the Fey/Shadow-touched feat isn't explicitly a warlock spell (c.f. other means that grant off-list spells to a caster and which then state that said spells are now considered to be caster class spells for that character) and doesn't use a warlock spell slot to cast (c.f. certain invocations e.g. Dreadful Word, Sculptor of Flesh, Sign of Ill Omen etc. that explicitly add the ability to cast a non-warlock spell using a warlock spell slot) I don't see that it should be cast at the highest possible level for the warlock and instead should be just as per a minimal level casting - in this case 1st - just as is the precedent with magic items that grant the casting of a spell X times per day - they are always cast at the minimum castable level and lowest spell DC unless explicitly otherwise stated.
The question arose from the consideration of Fey-touched and Sleep, which obviously gets considerably more effective if it's upcast, much like other spells. For some feats that grant access to specific spells upcasting doesn't make any difference, but with particular choices (e.g. Wood Elf Magic grants Longstrider, which is the difference between a self-buff and a group buff; Drow High Magic grants Dispel Magic, which has a different effect if cast at regular 3rd level as compared to higher levels) there's potential RAW for what I believe, RAI, for more than the feat was supposed to grant. If I'm wrong and warlocks are intended to be able to have more powerful magic because of their pact with their patron, so be it - I don't consider it to be particularly game breaking or overpowered for a 1/long rest spell - but I would be interested in knowing if I'm interpreting incorrectly.
The feats grant one free casting of each spell/long rest without using a spell slot. These would be cast at the base level of the spell. So 1st level for the 1st level spell and 2nd level for the 2nd level spell.
The spells may also be cast using a spell slot. When cast with a spell slot they would be cast at whatever level the spell slot is. So if a 9th warlock cast misty step using a spell slot to cast it would be cast at 5th level and would require a 5th level counterspell to automatically counter for example. Similarly, if the 9th level warlock happened to pick bless as their 1st level spell it would be cast at 5th level if using a spell slot and would affect more targets.
So it is pretty straight forward - free casting at the base spell level - cast with a spell slot at whatever level of the spell slot expended to cast the spell.
I think you've got it right, but just to be sure (I kind of lost track of your opinion in the wall of text):
The spell is level 1 when cast without a slot. The spell is whatever level the slot is when a slot is used. The spellcasting ability is always the ability raised by the feat.
Yes, I agree that they can be upcast - but only by using a spell slot to do so.
I'm asking particularly about the 1/long rest casting that doesn't use a slot. Should that be deemed to be cast as if it was functionally using a spell slot that exists only for that spell and therefore be cast at maximum possible level for a warlock, but not for anyone else because of the specifics of Pact Magic? My understanding from the text is not, but I'm happy to be proved incorrect.
Should a Drow warlock with the Drow High Magic feat, for example, benefit from the bonus Dispel Magic being cast at max level as compared with the equivalent level Drow Fighter (or Cleric, or Wizard, or whatever) that just gets it at the basic 3rd level regular power level? It's the same argument for spells being cast without using a slot to do so. If Drow Warlocks are particularly adept at dispelling compared to other classes, so be it, but it strikes me as unintended. If it's not using a slot to cast it presumably isn't being upcast?
For reference, the other feats that provide spellcasting outside of regular class/list abilities. I've bolded spells that can gain a benefit from not being limited to a minium caster level (beyond a higher level for regards of Counter/Dispel):
Abberent Dragonmark: Sorcerer cantrip plus 1st level sorcerer spell, castable once per short/long rest, casting using CON.
Artificer Initiate: Artificer cantrip, plus one 1st level artificer spell castable once per long rest, can additionally also be cast using a spell slot (effectively adding spell to class list), casting using INT.
Drow High Magic: Detect Magic at will, Levitate and Dispel Magic, each castable once per long rest using no slot, casting using CHA.
Fey Teleportation: Misty Step, castable once per short/long rest, using no slot, casting using INT.
Fey Touched: Misty Step, plus one 1st level spell, cast without a spell slot, each 1/long rest. Can also cast using spell slots (effectively adding these spells to class list), casting using INT, WIS or CHA as per stat increased.
Magic Initiate: Gain 2 cantrips and 1 1st level spell from the same class list, cast at lowest level/long rest using INT/WIS/CHA as per class list chosen.
Ritual Caster: Gain 2 x 1st level ritual only spells from a single class, can learn additional ritual spells from that class of a level up to 1/2 character level, cast using ability determined by class selected.
Shadow Touched: Invisibility plus 1 x 1st level spell, each castable without using a spell slot 1/long rest, spells can also be cast using spell slots (effectively adding to the available/known spells for that character). Cast using ability increased by feat.
Svirfneblin Magic: Nondetection at will, plus blindness/deafness, blur and disguise self each 1/long rest. Cast using INT at lowest level possible.
Telekinetic: Mage hand at will, cast using ability increased by feat.
Telepathic: Detect Thoughts 1/long rest, can also be cast using 2nd level or higher spell slots, using ability increased by feat.
Wood Elf Magic: 1 druid cantrip, Longstrider and Pass Without Trace each 1/long rest without using a spell slot. Cast using WIS.
Direct damage cantrips will scale with character level, but they're never upcast using higher level spell slots, so they can mostly be ignored for the purposes of this query.
As is typical, inconsistency in the wording of feats makes some options better than others if the spells granted are to be considered upcast to their maximum for a warlock. My presumption, RAI, is that all feat-giving spells are cast as if they came from an item - that is, at lowest possible spell and caster level - the feats, after all, are supposed to be a minor (less than 1 level) dip into a source of magical power, be that from a bloodline or heritage, dabbling with ancient rituals, brief training in a class, or whatever, rather than unlocking power equivalent to an actual level in a class that would give these abilities.
Note particularly the difference in wording between Magic Initiate (spell learnt is cast at lowest level, not added to spell lists for using slots on) vs Artificer Initiate (spell learnt, no reference to caster level, can also be cast using spell slots). Even if we assume that the Artificer Initiate is the most modern thinking of how this style of feat should be worded. the feat states that you are able to cast the spell 1/rest and may also cast it with spell slots if you have them. One therefore presumes that without using a spell slot the spell cannot be upcast.
When you cast the spell without consuming a real slot, it functions as though cast at the lowest level slot possible. For example, level 2 for a level 2 spell.
Yes, I agree that they can be upcast - but only by using a spell slot to do so.
I'm asking particularly about the 1/long rest casting that doesn't use a slot. Should that be deemed to be cast as if it was functionally using a spell slot that exists only for that spell and therefore be cast at maximum possible level for a warlock, but not for anyone else because of the specifics of Pact Magic? My understanding from the text is not, but I'm happy to be proved incorrect.
[Too long, didn't read, holy crap, so many words]
Here, lets just look at the upcasting rule:
When a spellcaster casts a spell using a slot that is of a higher level than the spell, the spell assumes the higher level for that casting.
So if you do not use a slot, the spell level does not change.
Just confirming that my interpretation of a feat/class interaction is correct as a player has questioned it (they're happy with my take, but I'd like to check that I'm reading it correctly). Input welcomed, especially with citations to back them up.
The Fey-touched (and Shadow-touched) feats (and by inference this also applies to others that also grant additional spellcasting) state:
Your exposure to the Feywild’s magic has changed you, granting you the following benefits:
Increase your Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
You learn the misty step spell and one 1st-level spell of your choice. The 1st-level spell must be from the divination or enchantment school of magic. You can cast each of these spells without expending a spell slot. Once you cast either of these spells in this way, you can’t cast that spell in this way again until you finish a long rest. You can also cast these spells using spell slots you have of the appropriate level. The spells’ spellcasting ability is the ability increased by this feat.
and:
Your exposure to the Shadowfell’s magic has changed you, granting you the following benefits:
Increase your Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
You learn the invisibility spell and one 1st-level spell of your choice. The 1st-level spell must be from the illusion or necromancy school of magic. You can cast each of these spells without expending a spell slot. Once you cast either of these spells in this way, you can’t cast that spell in this way again until you finish a long rest. You can also cast these spells using spell slots you have of the appropriate level. The spells’ spellcasting ability is the ability increased by this feat.
I'm presuming that the bonus 1st level spell (Div/Enc or Ill/Nec as appropriate) will be cast at 1st level only, and will not get boosted to the higher level casting that a warlock would normally cast at, UNLESS it is being cast using a spell slot (and will therefore be boosted to maximum level castable for a warlock; other spellcasters using spell slots would boost or not, depending on what slot they used)
My understanding of this is that because the bonus 1st level spell granted by the feat (flavour-wise it's going to be from a tainted heritage, interaction with (or access to) strange magic, whatever - is RAI intended to indicate minor magic ability appropriate to said interaction) doesn't use a spell slot it cannot therefore be cast at the maximum spell level the warlock has access to.
Under the Warlock's Pact Magic description:
Spell Slots
The Warlock table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your warlock spells of 1st through 5th level. The table also shows what the level of those slots is; all of your spell slots are the same level. To cast one of your warlock spells of 1st level or higher, you must expend a spell slot. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a short or long rest.
As the spell granted from the Fey/Shadow-touched feat isn't explicitly a warlock spell (c.f. other means that grant off-list spells to a caster and which then state that said spells are now considered to be caster class spells for that character) and doesn't use a warlock spell slot to cast (c.f. certain invocations e.g. Dreadful Word, Sculptor of Flesh, Sign of Ill Omen etc. that explicitly add the ability to cast a non-warlock spell using a warlock spell slot) I don't see that it should be cast at the highest possible level for the warlock and instead should be just as per a minimal level casting - in this case 1st - just as is the precedent with magic items that grant the casting of a spell X times per day - they are always cast at the minimum castable level and lowest spell DC unless explicitly otherwise stated.
The question arose from the consideration of Fey-touched and Sleep, which obviously gets considerably more effective if it's upcast, much like other spells. For some feats that grant access to specific spells upcasting doesn't make any difference, but with particular choices (e.g. Wood Elf Magic grants Longstrider, which is the difference between a self-buff and a group buff; Drow High Magic grants Dispel Magic, which has a different effect if cast at regular 3rd level as compared to higher levels) there's potential RAW for what I believe, RAI, for more than the feat was supposed to grant. If I'm wrong and warlocks are intended to be able to have more powerful magic because of their pact with their patron, so be it - I don't consider it to be particularly game breaking or overpowered for a 1/long rest spell - but I would be interested in knowing if I'm interpreting incorrectly.
Thanks!
Fey and Shadow Touched spells can be upcast by anyone, including a Warlock.
The feats grant one free casting of each spell/long rest without using a spell slot. These would be cast at the base level of the spell. So 1st level for the 1st level spell and 2nd level for the 2nd level spell.
The spells may also be cast using a spell slot. When cast with a spell slot they would be cast at whatever level the spell slot is. So if a 9th warlock cast misty step using a spell slot to cast it would be cast at 5th level and would require a 5th level counterspell to automatically counter for example. Similarly, if the 9th level warlock happened to pick bless as their 1st level spell it would be cast at 5th level if using a spell slot and would affect more targets.
So it is pretty straight forward - free casting at the base spell level - cast with a spell slot at whatever level of the spell slot expended to cast the spell.
I think you've got it right, but just to be sure (I kind of lost track of your opinion in the wall of text):
The spell is level 1 when cast without a slot. The spell is whatever level the slot is when a slot is used. The spellcasting ability is always the ability raised by the feat.
Yes, I agree that they can be upcast - but only by using a spell slot to do so.
I'm asking particularly about the 1/long rest casting that doesn't use a slot. Should that be deemed to be cast as if it was functionally using a spell slot that exists only for that spell and therefore be cast at maximum possible level for a warlock, but not for anyone else because of the specifics of Pact Magic? My understanding from the text is not, but I'm happy to be proved incorrect.
Should a Drow warlock with the Drow High Magic feat, for example, benefit from the bonus Dispel Magic being cast at max level as compared with the equivalent level Drow Fighter (or Cleric, or Wizard, or whatever) that just gets it at the basic 3rd level regular power level? It's the same argument for spells being cast without using a slot to do so. If Drow Warlocks are particularly adept at dispelling compared to other classes, so be it, but it strikes me as unintended. If it's not using a slot to cast it presumably isn't being upcast?
For reference, the other feats that provide spellcasting outside of regular class/list abilities. I've bolded spells that can gain a benefit from not being limited to a minium caster level (beyond a higher level for regards of Counter/Dispel):
Abberent Dragonmark: Sorcerer cantrip plus 1st level sorcerer spell, castable once per short/long rest, casting using CON.
Artificer Initiate: Artificer cantrip, plus one 1st level artificer spell castable once per long rest, can additionally also be cast using a spell slot (effectively adding spell to class list), casting using INT.
Drow High Magic: Detect Magic at will, Levitate and Dispel Magic, each castable once per long rest using no slot, casting using CHA.
Fey Teleportation: Misty Step, castable once per short/long rest, using no slot, casting using INT.
Fey Touched: Misty Step, plus one 1st level spell, cast without a spell slot, each 1/long rest. Can also cast using spell slots (effectively adding these spells to class list), casting using INT, WIS or CHA as per stat increased.
Magic Initiate: Gain 2 cantrips and 1 1st level spell from the same class list, cast at lowest level/long rest using INT/WIS/CHA as per class list chosen.
Ritual Caster: Gain 2 x 1st level ritual only spells from a single class, can learn additional ritual spells from that class of a level up to 1/2 character level, cast using ability determined by class selected.
Shadow Touched: Invisibility plus 1 x 1st level spell, each castable without using a spell slot 1/long rest, spells can also be cast using spell slots (effectively adding to the available/known spells for that character). Cast using ability increased by feat.
Svirfneblin Magic: Nondetection at will, plus blindness/deafness, blur and disguise self each 1/long rest. Cast using INT at lowest level possible.
Telekinetic: Mage hand at will, cast using ability increased by feat.
Telepathic: Detect Thoughts 1/long rest, can also be cast using 2nd level or higher spell slots, using ability increased by feat.
Wood Elf Magic: 1 druid cantrip, Longstrider and Pass Without Trace each 1/long rest without using a spell slot. Cast using WIS.
Direct damage cantrips will scale with character level, but they're never upcast using higher level spell slots, so they can mostly be ignored for the purposes of this query.
As is typical, inconsistency in the wording of feats makes some options better than others if the spells granted are to be considered upcast to their maximum for a warlock. My presumption, RAI, is that all feat-giving spells are cast as if they came from an item - that is, at lowest possible spell and caster level - the feats, after all, are supposed to be a minor (less than 1 level) dip into a source of magical power, be that from a bloodline or heritage, dabbling with ancient rituals, brief training in a class, or whatever, rather than unlocking power equivalent to an actual level in a class that would give these abilities.
Note particularly the difference in wording between Magic Initiate (spell learnt is cast at lowest level, not added to spell lists for using slots on) vs Artificer Initiate (spell learnt, no reference to caster level, can also be cast using spell slots). Even if we assume that the Artificer Initiate is the most modern thinking of how this style of feat should be worded. the feat states that you are able to cast the spell 1/rest and may also cast it with spell slots if you have them. One therefore presumes that without using a spell slot the spell cannot be upcast.
When you cast the spell without consuming a real slot, it functions as though cast at the lowest level slot possible. For example, level 2 for a level 2 spell.
Here, lets just look at the upcasting rule:
So if you do not use a slot, the spell level does not change.
Thanks all! Much appreciated (even if it did take me a few days to be able to get back to you all).
It doesn't appear to let me upcast these spells on my warlock's character sheet
Can confirm. Post in bug forum.
You can also cast these spells using spell slots you have of the appropriate level.
The High-Level-Warlock has no Slots of Level 1.
But higher level slots are also appropriate.