For abilities and items that say to the effect of "when you cast a wizard spell," where does the spells gained from the touched feats go? Are they just unowned spells?
How do they interact with the magic items that boost attack and DC?
For abilities and items that say to the effect of "when you cast a wizard spell," where does the spells gained from the touched feats go? Are they just unowned spells?
How do they interact with the magic items that boost attack and DC?
By definition, a wizard spell is any spell on the wizard spell list, plus anything an ability you have turns into a wizard spell (e.g. many Sorcerer subclasses modify the definition of sorcerer spell for that sorcerer - Divine Soul is an excellent example).
The magic items you're thinking of interact in the obvious way - all of the ones I've ready apply to all spell attacks anyway, but in terms of affecting save DCs, with the exception of the Amulet of the Devout, all of the others affect save DCs based on the definition I just provided.
Yeah I was looking at getting "Tashas hideous laughter" on a sorcerer build but realized that the blood vial item would not work for it. Still going to do it but it would just be weaker.
As quindraco points out a <class> spell is a spell on the <class> spell list. Misty Step and Invisibility from the Fey/Shadow-touched feats are on the wizard spell list so they count as wizard spells. They're not automatically added to your spellbook though. You "know" them, so you could add them to the spellbook but you'd have to scribe them. Since you get a free cast and can cast using spell slots anyway you'd never need to prep them and there's little reason to actually scribe them. The same goes for the 1st level spells you get to choose, if the spells you chose are also wizard spells.
If an item boosts your generic "spell save DC" then the spell save DC for these spells are affected and so increased. If an item only specifically boosts wizards spell save DC then only the wizard spells from the feats get boosted. It must state this, however. Just because an item can only be attuned by a wizard doesn't mean it only boosts the Wizard's spell save DC unless it specifically says Wizard spells.
As an example the Reveler's Concertina increases the spell save DC for your Bard spells. Misty Step and Invisibility don't require spell saves so they don't matter, so it depends on your chosen spells. If you took Fey-Touched and your 1st level spell was Bane, which is on the Bard list, then its spell save DC would increase. If you had chosen Command, however, the spell save DC would not increase, as it is not a Bard spell.
As quindraco also mentions, some spells not on the <class> spell list can become <class> spells for you through certain features. Their spell save DCs would be increased if you chose them through the feats.
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By definition, a wizard spell is any spell on the wizard spell list, plus anything an ability you have turns into a wizard spell.
Where is that definition mentioned? I've never seen it before. Also, SAC says the opposite whenever similar questions arise.
The wizard spell list is titled "Wizard Spells." If it's on that list, it's definitionally a "wizard spell."
That doesn't necessarily make everything on that list one of "your" wizard spells, if a feature uses that language, but that's a different discussion, haha.
For abilities and items that say to the effect of "when you cast a wizard spell," where does the spells gained from the touched feats go? Are they just unowned spells?
How do they interact with the magic items that boost attack and DC?
By definition, a wizard spell is any spell on the wizard spell list, plus anything an ability you have turns into a wizard spell (e.g. many Sorcerer subclasses modify the definition of sorcerer spell for that sorcerer - Divine Soul is an excellent example).
The magic items you're thinking of interact in the obvious way - all of the ones I've ready apply to all spell attacks anyway, but in terms of affecting save DCs, with the exception of the Amulet of the Devout, all of the others affect save DCs based on the definition I just provided.
I am going off the rule of multi-class. If you know a spell like "hold person" that you learned as a bard, it does not count as a wizard spell. Even if you are a wizard as well. It counts as a bard spell. So what class does the touched feat apply?
Look at the "spells known" rules/errata. I think it's there.
By definition, a wizard spell is any spell on the wizard spell list, plus anything an ability you have turns into a wizard spell.
Where is that definition mentioned? I've never seen it before. Also, SAC says the opposite whenever similar questions arise.
It's literally the entire point of class spell lists. A wizard spell is a spell on the Wizard class spell list.
I've gone through the SAC twice now and cannot find anywhere where it says the opposite. Can you specify? The closest I found was regarding Magic Initiate but that's very different to the question posed here since MI specifies the spells are class spells. There's some things about Racial spells but again that is often different because although those features let you cast the spells you don't actually know/learn them, while these touched feats specifically state you learn these spells.
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Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
For abilities and items that say to the effect of "when you cast a wizard spell," where does the spells gained from the touched feats go? Are they just unowned spells?
How do they interact with the magic items that boost attack and DC?
By definition, a wizard spell is any spell on the wizard spell list, plus anything an ability you have turns into a wizard spell (e.g. many Sorcerer subclasses modify the definition of sorcerer spell for that sorcerer - Divine Soul is an excellent example).
The magic items you're thinking of interact in the obvious way - all of the ones I've ready apply to all spell attacks anyway, but in terms of affecting save DCs, with the exception of the Amulet of the Devout, all of the others affect save DCs based on the definition I just provided.
I am going off the rule of multi-class. If you know a spell like "hold person" that you learned as a bard, it does not count as a wizard spell. Even if you are a wizard as well. It counts as a bard spell. So what class does the touched feat apply?
Look at the "spells known" rules/errata. I think it's there.
And we've covered this. Or at least, I have.
Important note: multiclass only covers spells learned through Class spellcasting features. It does not concern spells learned from feats.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Dnd beyond is being stingy today with uploading things properly on my end.
Side note: I double checked the increase DC magic items that I was referring to and they do say [class] spells. It's the rod of the pact keeper type magic items. We really need a generalized name for these things.
Does what you are talking about apply to race spells as well? Aside from the ones that say, "... From the [class] spell list."
So for example "charm person" is taken with the Fey touched feat. For the sake of those magic items, it counts as a bard, druid, sorcerer, warlock, AND wizard spell at the same time.
If so, then would those magic items stack up on the DC of that spell?
Dnd beyond is being stingy today with uploading things properly on my end.
Side note: I double checked the increase DC magic items that I was referring to and they do say [class] spells. It's the rod of the pact keeper type magic items. We really need a generalized name for these things.
Does what you are talking about apply to race spells as well? Aside from the ones that say, "... From the [class] spell list."
So for example "charm person" is taken with the Fey touched feat. For the sake of those magic items, it counts as a bard, druid, sorcerer, warlock, AND wizard spell at the same time.
If so, then would those magic items stack up on the DC of that spell?
The DC would not stack up. The most potent one takes effect.
Racial spells are different because you do not learn/know the spell. You cast it without knowing it.
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Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Why wouldn't they stack? It comes from different sources. The only time the most potent one would take effect would be if it came from the same name effect. (That's why aid cannot be stacked) And you said yourself, it would count as a wizard spell because it is on the wizard spell list. The same would be said said of it was on a different spell list. Since hold person is on multiple spell lists it would be a duel listed spell, essentially.
Why wouldn't they stack? It comes from different sources. The only time the most potent one would take effect would be if it came from the same name effect. (That's why aid cannot be stacked) And you said yourself, it would count as a wizard spell because it is on the wizard spell list. The same would be said said of it was on a different spell list. Since hold person is on multiple spell lists it would be a duel listed spell, essentially.
This is where the distinction I raised in my post comes into play. The all-purpose tool, for example, says the bonus applies to "your" artificer spells. There's compelling reason to believe that your artificer (or wizard, druid, whatever) spells are only the spells you learn by virtue of being an artificer (or wizard, druid, whatever), not any spells you know that happen to be artificer spells. I'll leave it to Chicken_Champ to argue for the counter position.
Why wouldn't they stack? It comes from different sources. The only time the most potent one would take effect would be if it came from the same name effect. (That's why aid cannot be stacked) And you said yourself, it would count as a wizard spell because it is on the wizard spell list. The same would be said said of it was on a different spell list. Since hold person is on multiple spell lists it would be a duel listed spell, essentially.
This is where the distinction I raised in my post comes into play. The all-purpose tool, for example, says the bonus applies to "your" artificer spells. There's compelling reason to believe that your artificer (or wizard, druid, whatever) spells are only the spells you learn by virtue of being an artificer (or wizard, druid, whatever), not any spells you know that happen to be artificer spells. I'll leave it to Chicken_Champ to argue for the counter position.
That's why I tend to agree that the touched spells are not (class) spells, even if they are on a spell list.
CyberMind was saying that they count as (class) spells because they are on a list. So if that's the case then I refer to what I said previous.
In pokemon terms, I think they would be (???) Type moves. In terms of STAB bonuses, they don't get any.
I just wanted your thoughts on the matter.
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For abilities and items that say to the effect of "when you cast a wizard spell," where does the spells gained from the touched feats go? Are they just unowned spells?
How do they interact with the magic items that boost attack and DC?
Hmm interesting. They don't say they count as class spells, so they aren't. You would have to also know the spell the normal way for those items.
By definition, a wizard spell is any spell on the wizard spell list, plus anything an ability you have turns into a wizard spell (e.g. many Sorcerer subclasses modify the definition of sorcerer spell for that sorcerer - Divine Soul is an excellent example).
The magic items you're thinking of interact in the obvious way - all of the ones I've ready apply to all spell attacks anyway, but in terms of affecting save DCs, with the exception of the Amulet of the Devout, all of the others affect save DCs based on the definition I just provided.
Yeah I was looking at getting "Tashas hideous laughter" on a sorcerer build but realized that the blood vial item would not work for it. Still going to do it but it would just be weaker.
As quindraco points out a <class> spell is a spell on the <class> spell list. Misty Step and Invisibility from the Fey/Shadow-touched feats are on the wizard spell list so they count as wizard spells. They're not automatically added to your spellbook though. You "know" them, so you could add them to the spellbook but you'd have to scribe them. Since you get a free cast and can cast using spell slots anyway you'd never need to prep them and there's little reason to actually scribe them. The same goes for the 1st level spells you get to choose, if the spells you chose are also wizard spells.
If an item boosts your generic "spell save DC" then the spell save DC for these spells are affected and so increased. If an item only specifically boosts wizards spell save DC then only the wizard spells from the feats get boosted. It must state this, however. Just because an item can only be attuned by a wizard doesn't mean it only boosts the Wizard's spell save DC unless it specifically says Wizard spells.
As an example the Reveler's Concertina increases the spell save DC for your Bard spells. Misty Step and Invisibility don't require spell saves so they don't matter, so it depends on your chosen spells. If you took Fey-Touched and your 1st level spell was Bane, which is on the Bard list, then its spell save DC would increase. If you had chosen Command, however, the spell save DC would not increase, as it is not a Bard spell.
As quindraco also mentions, some spells not on the <class> spell list can become <class> spells for you through certain features. Their spell save DCs would be increased if you chose them through the feats.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Where is that definition mentioned? I've never seen it before. Also, SAC says the opposite whenever similar questions arise.
The wizard spell list is titled "Wizard Spells." If it's on that list, it's definitionally a "wizard spell."
That doesn't necessarily make everything on that list one of "your" wizard spells, if a feature uses that language, but that's a different discussion, haha.
I am going off the rule of multi-class. If you know a spell like "hold person" that you learned as a bard, it does not count as a wizard spell. Even if you are a wizard as well. It counts as a bard spell. So what class does the touched feat apply?
Look at the "spells known" rules/errata. I think it's there.
It's literally the entire point of class spell lists. A wizard spell is a spell on the Wizard class spell list.
I've gone through the SAC twice now and cannot find anywhere where it says the opposite. Can you specify? The closest I found was regarding Magic Initiate but that's very different to the question posed here since MI specifies the spells are class spells. There's some things about Racial spells but again that is often different because although those features let you cast the spells you don't actually know/learn them, while these touched feats specifically state you learn these spells.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
And we've covered this. Or at least, I have.
Important note: multiclass only covers spells learned through Class spellcasting features. It does not concern spells learned from feats.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Dnd beyond is being stingy today with uploading things properly on my end.
Side note: I double checked the increase DC magic items that I was referring to and they do say [class] spells. It's the rod of the pact keeper type magic items. We really need a generalized name for these things.
Does what you are talking about apply to race spells as well? Aside from the ones that say, "... From the [class] spell list."
So for example "charm person" is taken with the Fey touched feat. For the sake of those magic items, it counts as a bard, druid, sorcerer, warlock, AND wizard spell at the same time.
If so, then would those magic items stack up on the DC of that spell?
The DC would not stack up. The most potent one takes effect.
Racial spells are different because you do not learn/know the spell. You cast it without knowing it.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Why wouldn't they stack? It comes from different sources. The only time the most potent one would take effect would be if it came from the same name effect. (That's why aid cannot be stacked) And you said yourself, it would count as a wizard spell because it is on the wizard spell list. The same would be said said of it was on a different spell list. Since hold person is on multiple spell lists it would be a duel listed spell, essentially.
This is where the distinction I raised in my post comes into play. The all-purpose tool, for example, says the bonus applies to "your" artificer spells. There's compelling reason to believe that your artificer (or wizard, druid, whatever) spells are only the spells you learn by virtue of being an artificer (or wizard, druid, whatever), not any spells you know that happen to be artificer spells. I'll leave it to Chicken_Champ to argue for the counter position.
That's why I tend to agree that the touched spells are not (class) spells, even if they are on a spell list.
CyberMind was saying that they count as (class) spells because they are on a list. So if that's the case then I refer to what I said previous.
In pokemon terms, I think they would be (???) Type moves. In terms of STAB bonuses, they don't get any.
I just wanted your thoughts on the matter.