3.5e: stealth is part of movement (and is two skills) and is resolved as a contest vs perception (same); perception resists, and is a free action on your turn. The listener needs to win by 20 to determine what square to attack. If you don't want to roll stealth, your passive appears to be zero, modified by range.
4e: stealth is part of movement (or other action), and is resolved as a contest vs perception; perception resists, and is a minor action on your turn. The listener needs to win by 10 to determine what square to attack. Rolling stealth appears to be automatic.
5e: stealth is an action, and is resolved as a contest vs perception; perception resists, and is an action on your turn. The listener needs to win to determine what square to attack. If the unseen creature does not take an action to hide, it's normally equivalent to automatic failure, though the DM can give passive difficulty for range/etc.
He is totally undetected from whoever is room A, and this without having made any sort of effort to hide or any check of any kind. I would not call him hidden, because that would suppose that he has made some effort to hide.
You wouldn't say they're hiding, but you could certainly say they're hidden. That's true of both the dictionary meaning of the word and the particular meaning 5e uses.
The thing is that they certainly are not hidden. They could see each other perfectly fine. And another member of the party might be seeing them fine
Same thing with an invisible guy, by the way, that you do not even know that he is there, in the same room with you. You have never seen him before, have no reason to suspect his presence. He is not making any noise, is not moving and is therefore not disturbing the environment and certainly not leaving any track. The rules say: An invisible creature is impossible to see without the aid of magic or a special sense. For the purpose of hiding, the creature is heavily obscured. The creature's location can be detected by any noise it makes or any tracks it leaves." As the creature is not making noise, and not leaving tracks, there is no way it should be detected.
Unless your invisible guy doesn't need to breathe, they're still either making noise or making an active attempt to mask it.
And you would allow a simple perception check to detect someone just breathing across a room ?.
Circumstances where someone is in the same scene as someone else yet literally no one is in a position to have any chance of noticing them are extremely rare.
Like being invisible ? Where, I must add, the rules are extremely clear. Do you call breathing "making noise? I don't.
I do. Unless someone makes an effort to actually breath quietly, breathing is distinctly noticeable. Did you never play hide and seek as a kid? How about laser tag or paint ball? Folks that you can't see give themselves away all the time by making an unplanned noise, breathing, scuffing, or otherwise announcing their presence.
Some folks even breathe at irritating levels that folks complain about.
You are welcome to believe whatever you wish but please don't try to force those rulings on others or claim that that is how D&D is intended to be played.
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Also, do you realize how ridiculous it is to suggest that any approach to the rules of D&D would even remotely claim that the positions of all creatures are automatically known to everyone else wherever they might be is? It is beyond ludocrous.
Hidden is unseen and unheard. That is the rule stated in 5e. Do YOU think you can see everyone in a city, country or plane? Do YOU think you can hear everyone in a city, country or plane? Personally, I don't, it is a statement so ludicrous I would not propose it. Since all of these creatures are by definition unseen and unheard they are automatically hidden. Did I really need to type out that explanation of something that should be obvious?
However, in my game, consistent with RAW, any creature that COULD be seen or heard does need to make an effort to remain unseen or unheard - othewise they may be spotted. This includes sitting quietly in a room reading. Turning the page, moving in the chair and breathing can all be noticed from the next room revealing the presence and general location of the source of the sound UNLESS the creature that is reading makes an effort (a stealth check) to read without making noise, turning the page and breathing silently. Of course, if there is loud music playing then the sounds of reading would not be audible and the reading creature would remain hidden UNLESS they could be seen - in which case they are not hidden.
No. Ready action and attack of opportunity are two different things, either of which will use your reaction.
Your character has one reaction that refreshes at the start of their turn.
If a character readies an action then they specify a set of conditions that will cause them to do something - move, make an attack etc. If the conditions happen then the character can choose to perform the readied action and doing so costs their reaction.
If a character with a readied action they have not taken yet is given the possibility of an opportunity attack due to someone running by then they can choose to use their reaction to make the opportunity attack but since they only have one reaction, they will no longer be able to take their readied action since they don't have their reaction left.
A character that has used a readied action, has also used their reaction and as a result can not make an opportunity attack that turn or do anything else that requires a reaction (cast shield or counterspell for example).
Thx.
the question is if he uses his ready action before the start of his turn in the same round. Would you have two reactions? Example:
1) Start of round 2) Use your prepared action from the previous round (reaction) 3) PC's turn, attack 4) Turn of the enemy, attacks and fly from the PC. 5) The PC's attack of opportunity (reaction)
This way the PC would have two reactions in the same round, is that correct?
Regarding darkness, we interpret that any creature that moves or attacks reveals its position and can be attacked (normally, because advantage and disadvantage are canceled). But I wanted to know if we were doing it right.
the question is if he uses his ready action before the start of his turn in the same round. Would you have two reactions? Example:
1) Start of round 2) Use your prepared action from the previous round (reaction) 3) PC's turn, attack 4) Turn of the enemy, attacks and fly from the PC. 5) The PC's attack of opportunity (reaction)
This way the PC would have two reactions in the same round, is that correct?
Regarding darkness, we interpret that any creature that moves or attacks reveals its position and can be attacked (normally, because advantage and disadvantage are canceled). But I wanted to know if we were doing it right.
Thinking about rounds will only confuse you. The rules don't really care when initiative restarts.
You have 1 reaction that refreshes at the start of your turn. You can do as you described if you haven't used your reaction since your last turn, then you can't use your reaction again until your next turn (regardless of initiative).
If an invisible creature is just sitting in the corner doing nothing then yeah sure it can sit combat out I guess? I am not sure why it matters 99.5% of the time.
You are talking about a severely nuanced case that they have to call out as a very explicit exemption to the "Auto-Find" rule. So much so that I struggle to think it would happen more than once or twice a campaign that:
1. You are in Combat 2. There is an invisible creature who chooses to just stand still NOT breathing and NOT choose to use a hide action
Why would they even do that? Why not hide and just attempt to not be noticed? Why run the risk of being found by NOT hiding if you are going to do nothing besides just sit there?
There is no good reason is the answer and hardly anyone would even think of that as a thing to do.
I am talking about Combat because the question is about combat. The literal title of the thread you are on is "Combat in Darkness"
If you do not want to discuss combat then you should likely go to another thread that does not involve the discussion of Combat in Darkness if you do not wish to discuss Combat in Darkness.
You keep bringing up out of combat examples that has no bearing on the discussion. I even clearly stated that on my first post and everyone has clarified from the get go that we are talking about combat.
If you are in combat with an invisible creature that is in the combat and has rolled for initiative then why would it just spend every round standing still, not attempting to hide (for some reason), but also not doing anything? First off....why? Second off they are NOT attempting to be sneaky (as they are not hiding) so what are they doing exactly? Just being creepy? I am not sure.
Its just a silly scenario that will not happen for most people.
If you are talking about OUT of combat stealth and invisibility then great! That is a completely different discussion.
I'd also point out https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/dungeon-masters-only/105937-invisible-creatures-attacking-an-invisible where Lyxen is making the same argument. 5e seems to have simply decided that they don't want guessing what square to attack to be a common situation in combat. For comparison:
I do. Unless someone makes an effort to actually breath quietly, breathing is distinctly noticeable. Did you never play hide and seek as a kid? How about laser tag or paint ball? Folks that you can't see give themselves away all the time by making an unplanned noise, breathing, scuffing, or otherwise announcing their presence.
Some folks even breathe at irritating levels that folks complain about.
You are welcome to believe whatever you wish but please don't try to force those rulings on others or claim that that is how D&D is intended to be played.
----------------
Also, do you realize how ridiculous it is to suggest that any approach to the rules of D&D would even remotely claim that the positions of all creatures are automatically known to everyone else wherever they might be is? It is beyond ludocrous.
Hidden is unseen and unheard. That is the rule stated in 5e. Do YOU think you can see everyone in a city, country or plane? Do YOU think you can hear everyone in a city, country or plane? Personally, I don't, it is a statement so ludicrous I would not propose it. Since all of these creatures are by definition unseen and unheard they are automatically hidden. Did I really need to type out that explanation of something that should be obvious?
However, in my game, consistent with RAW, any creature that COULD be seen or heard does need to make an effort to remain unseen or unheard - othewise they may be spotted. This includes sitting quietly in a room reading. Turning the page, moving in the chair and breathing can all be noticed from the next room revealing the presence and general location of the source of the sound UNLESS the creature that is reading makes an effort (a stealth check) to read without making noise, turning the page and breathing silently. Of course, if there is loud music playing then the sounds of reading would not be audible and the reading creature would remain hidden UNLESS they could be seen - in which case they are not hidden.
The fact that the target can't see him.
Thx.
the question is if he uses his ready action before the start of his turn in the same round. Would you have two reactions? Example:
1) Start of round
2) Use your prepared action from the previous round (reaction)
3) PC's turn, attack
4) Turn of the enemy, attacks and fly from the PC.
5) The PC's attack of opportunity (reaction)
This way the PC would have two reactions in the same round, is that correct?
Regarding darkness, we interpret that any creature that moves or attacks reveals its position and can be attacked (normally, because advantage and disadvantage are canceled). But I wanted to know if we were doing it right.
Thinking about rounds will only confuse you. The rules don't really care when initiative restarts.
You have 1 reaction that refreshes at the start of your turn. You can do as you described if you haven't used your reaction since your last turn, then you can't use your reaction again until your next turn (regardless of initiative).
Ultimately it doesn't matter....
If an invisible creature is just sitting in the corner doing nothing then yeah sure it can sit combat out I guess? I am not sure why it matters 99.5% of the time.
You are talking about a severely nuanced case that they have to call out as a very explicit exemption to the "Auto-Find" rule. So much so that I struggle to think it would happen more than once or twice a campaign that:
1. You are in Combat
2. There is an invisible creature who chooses to just stand still NOT breathing and NOT choose to use a hide action
Why would they even do that? Why not hide and just attempt to not be noticed? Why run the risk of being found by NOT hiding if you are going to do nothing besides just sit there?
There is no good reason is the answer and hardly anyone would even think of that as a thing to do.
Okay Lyxen. You do you
I am talking about Combat because the question is about combat. The literal title of the thread you are on is "Combat in Darkness"
If you do not want to discuss combat then you should likely go to another thread that does not involve the discussion of Combat in Darkness if you do not wish to discuss Combat in Darkness.
You keep bringing up out of combat examples that has no bearing on the discussion. I even clearly stated that on my first post and everyone has clarified from the get go that we are talking about combat.
If you are in combat with an invisible creature that is in the combat and has rolled for initiative then why would it just spend every round standing still, not attempting to hide (for some reason), but also not doing anything? First off....why? Second off they are NOT attempting to be sneaky (as they are not hiding) so what are they doing exactly? Just being creepy? I am not sure.
Its just a silly scenario that will not happen for most people.
If you are talking about OUT of combat stealth and invisibility then great! That is a completely different discussion.
It's becoming painfully clear you do not want this to be a thing despite it for sure being a thing....
Good luck with your games.
The disengage action is definitely worth the Ki point here Optimus.
😂