In the heat of battle, there is a fifteen-foot gorge the characters need to cross because on the other side one of their companions is rendered unconscious, and on his second death saving throw check.
Two characters are trying to cross the gorge a Ranger and a Monk
Ranger: 14str, Movement 30' Long Jump: Standing 7, 10+ Movement 14 Monk: 14str, Movement 40' Long Jump: Standing 7, 10+ Movement 14. Step of the Wind: Standing 14, 10+ movement 28.
The Ranger is 5 feet from the gorge. The Monk is 30 feet from the gorge.
Question:
I'll come out and say it. I don't understand jumping rules as they apply to move during combat. Now I understand the calculation for the distance with a running start or standing still. What I'm trying to understand is the jumping distance as it applies to your movement or if is it a separate value.
Using the information I provided above, I hope that is enough, how do the movement/jumping rules work in this situation? Does the jump take into account how much movement has been used for its distance? What is my final movement?
Does the jump take into account how much movement has been used for its distance? What is my final movement?
Yes it counts every movement moved and each foot you clear on the jump costs a foot of movement as well. From the distance given, neither character have enought movement to clear the gorge with a long jump.
The DM can always let him make an Athletics check to try to jump an unusually long distance, covering the remaining foot clearance or to grip the side of the gorge.
Ranger: 14str, Movement 30' Long Jump: Standing 7, 10+ Movement 14 Monk: 14str, Movement 40' Long Jump: Standing 7, 10+ Movement 14. Step of the Wind: Standing 14, 10+ movement 28.
The Ranger is 5 feet from the gorge. The Monk is 30 feet from the gorge.
Ranger Attempt: Movement 30 - 5 Starting Distance = 25 remaining movement - 7 Jump = 18 movement left over, does not clear gorge.
Monk Attempt: Movement 40 - 30 Starting Distance = 10 remaining movement - 28 jump = -18 movement, not within the 40 movement allowed, can not clear gorge.
In another scenario can the monk player apply the Dash Action and clear the gorge? Even with the Ranger takes the Dash action and backup for the 10+ movement distance for a longer jump it still would not be able to clear the fifteen-foot gorge.
With Dash
Ranger: 14str, Movement 60' Long Jump: Standing 7, 10+ Movement 14 Monk: 14str, Movement 80' Long Jump: Standing 7, 10+ Movement 14. Step of the Wind: Standing 14, 10+ movement 28.
The Ranger is 5 feet from the gorge. The Monk is 30 feet from the gorge.
Ranger Attempt: Movement 60 - 5 Starting Distance = 55 remaining movement - 7 Jump = 37 movement remaining, does not clear gorge based on 14 jump distance.
Monk Attempt: Movement 80- 30 Starting Distance = 50 remaining movement - 28 jump = 22 movement remaining, within the 80 movement allowed, clears gorge.
If the Monk use Step of the Wind, and Dash as a bonus action, he will be able to move up to the gorge and clear it with a long jump as it doubles your jumping distance.
Possible Movement 80 feet
Possible Jumping Distance 28 feet
Distance away from the other side of the gorge 45 feet.
Monk moves 30 feet to the gorge, then long jump it 15 feet and has still 35 feet of movement he can do once on the other side.
If the Monk use Step of the Wind, and Dash as a bonus action, he will be able to move up to the gorge and clear it with a long jump as it doubles your jumping distance.
Possible Movement 80 feet
Possible Jumping Distance 28 feet
Distance away from the other side of the gorge 45 feet.
Monk moves 30 feet to the gorge, then long jump it 15 feet and has still 35 feet of movement he can do once on the other side.
Yea I was just about to say this. The Monk can do it if he spends the Ki-point to do a Step of the Wind Dash bonus action. If he just did a normal Dash action he'd have enough total movement but not enough of a jump distance to clear the chasm.
Step of the wind is presumably being used to dash in this scenario, which gives the monk 80 feet of movement to play with - more than enough to clear the gorge with his 28 foot long jump.
And while a Ranger can't automatically clear the 15 foot gorge with a 14 foot long jump, it'd be reasonable for the DM to offer an Athletics check to help clear the last foot, perhaps by grabbing onto the ledge and pulling himself up. That's one of the textbook examples of an Athletics check.
In the heat of battle, there is a fifteen-foot gorge the characters need to cross because on the other side one of their companions is rendered unconscious, and on his second death saving throw check.
Two characters are trying to cross the gorge a Ranger and a Monk
Ranger: 14str, Movement 30' Long Jump: Standing 7, 10+ Movement 14 Monk: 14str, Movement 40' Long Jump: Standing 7, 10+ Movement 14. Step of the Wind: Standing 14, 10+ movement 28.
The Ranger is 5 feet from the gorge. The Monk is 30 feet from the gorge.
Question:
I'll come out and say it. I don't understand jumping rules as they apply to move during combat. Now I understand the calculation for the distance with a running start or standing still. What I'm trying to understand is the jumping distance as it applies to your movement or if is it a separate value.
Using the information I provided above, I hope that is enough, how do the movement/jumping rules work in this situation? Does the jump take into account how much movement has been used for its distance? What is my final movement?
EDIT: I missed that you listed M values. Math below assumes the Ranger Dashes, so the Ranger is M60 and the Monk is M80.
The rules references needed are pages 175 and 182 of the PHB, which contradict each other, so I will do my best to discuss the relevant issues.
Baseline, page 182:
Ranger, movement option 1: Ranger moves towards the gorge, then attempts to leap it. The Ranger spends 12 feet of movement, and has 48 remaining. The Ranger falls in the middle of the gorge, 7 feet from the starting edge and 8 feet from the far edge.
Ranger, movement option 2: Ranger backs up 5 feet, then repeats option 1, but with a 10 foot head start. The Ranger spends 29 feet of movement total (5 back, 10 forward, jump 14) and reaches a point in space 14 feet across the gorge at starting elevation, then falls, with 31 movement remaining.
Monk: Monk moves 30 feet, jumps 20 more feet, and lands with 40 more feet of movement available, since the Monk Dashed.
Complicating issues, page 182:
The rules for a high jump explicitly state you can reach out your arms a distance of half your height (curiously, this is the RAW, not the standard of specifying your reach), but fail to do so for a long jump. If the Ranger is at least 2 feet tall, this leads to the curious issue where the Ranger can add 1 foot to what they can touch with a high jump but not a long jump. If your DM is willing to fix this, the Ranger should be able to touch the edge of the gorge (since it's only a foot out), with possible interactions, like grabbing a rock or shrub, or trying to slam a piton into the ground.
Complicating issues, page 175:
Page 175 explicitly states you're entitled to make an Athletics check to jump an unusually long distance. Page 182 not only drops this ball entirely, it also says you can make the check to jump higher than normal, with absolutely no guidance for the DM how to do this in a fair or balanced fashion. The best homebrew solution I've seen so far for fixing this (for a long jump, specifically) is to let the character make an athletics check, then halve it if it's a standing long jump, then use the greater of it or the character's static jump value, in order to let you try to jump farther. In this case, assuming the Ranger backed up for a running start and is on a grid, that would mean the Ranger cleanly makes the jump with an Athletics check of 20, spending 35 feet of movement to cross the gorge in a jump and not landing until firmly in a grid square, with no rules concerns (a 15 foot gorge is 3 grid squares across, so you need 4 squares of movement, i.e. 20, to completely make it). The Ranger will have 25 feet of movement remaining.
In general, the jumping rules break down when jumping on a grid, because the RAW on grids only covers how much movement you need to traverse grid squares, not how jumping interacts - if you can jump 8 feet and have 10 feet of movement available, and you try to jump two squares, where do you land, given you're not allowed to exist anywhere but in a grid square using the grid rules? Your DM is justified both in rounding down (so an 8 foot jump can only take you 1 square) and in rounding normally (so an 8 foot jump can take you 2 squares if you have the movement, but a 12 foot jump can only take you the same 2).
To answer your final question:
If you have long jump distance X and remaining movement Y, the total distance you can jump is min(X,Y).
If he just did a normal Dash action he'd have enough total movement but not enough of a jump distance to clear the chasm.
If he was tot take an action to Dash, he also would not have an action left to stabilize his unconscious ally even if he was strong enough to make the jump. ☺
If your DM is willing to fix this, the Ranger should be able to touch the edge of the gorge (since it's only a foot out), with possible interactions, like grabbing a rock or shrub, or trying to slam a piton into the ground.
Characters at 1 foot of the edge of the gorge can touch it. Even on a grid play he can, being in a square adjacent to the surface. Hence why i said the DM can always let him make an Athletics check to try to jump an unusually long distance, covering the remaining foot clearance or to grip the side of the gorge.
If he just did a normal Dash action he'd have enough total movement but not enough of a jump distance to clear the chasm.
If he was tot take an action to Dash, he also would not have an action left to stabilize his unconscious ally even if he was strong enough to make the jump. ☺
Yeah, at this point I was more interested in the math of the long jump which you all helped out immensely.
If your DM is willing to fix this, the Ranger should be able to touch the edge of the gorge (since it's only a foot out), with possible interactions, like grabbing a rock or shrub, or trying to slam a piton into the ground.
Characters at 1 foot of the edge of the gorge can touch it. Even on a grid play he can, being in a square adjacent to the surface. Hence why i said the DM can always let him make an Athletics check to try to jump an unusually long distance, covering the remaining foot clearance or to grip the side of the gorge.
Yeah, I would allow that with the associated Athletics DC. Fortunately enough the depth of the gorge was only twenty feet so even if the character missed the extended reach it would just be 2d6 fall damage into a snowbank.
It only took 6 replies before someone realized that the monk is a monk...
Yeah, if it still has 1 Ki, it can totally get across and still have an action to stabilize.
In regards to the ranger, you could give an athletics check for extra distance, but there is no example guidance for this, so totally up to DM. I'd say something like DC 11 (10+#number of extra feet needed), and if failed by less than 5, they can catch the edge, pulling themself up with half their movement. *pretty much totally homebrewed, not RAW.
Setup:
In the heat of battle, there is a fifteen-foot gorge the characters need to cross because on the other side one of their companions is rendered unconscious, and on his second death saving throw check.
Two characters are trying to cross the gorge a Ranger and a Monk
Ranger: 14str, Movement 30' Long Jump: Standing 7, 10+ Movement 14
Monk: 14str, Movement 40' Long Jump: Standing 7, 10+ Movement 14. Step of the Wind: Standing 14, 10+ movement 28.
The Ranger is 5 feet from the gorge.
The Monk is 30 feet from the gorge.
Question:
I'll come out and say it. I don't understand jumping rules as they apply to move during combat. Now I understand the calculation for the distance with a running start or standing still. What I'm trying to understand is the jumping distance as it applies to your movement or if is it a separate value.
Using the information I provided above, I hope that is enough, how do the movement/jumping rules work in this situation? Does the jump take into account how much movement has been used for its distance? What is my final movement?
Ranger cannot make the jump without magical assistance, max distance would be 14 based on Str.
Monk can make the jump, but he is too far away to have the movement remaining to do it--sadly jump does take away from movement.
Yes it counts every movement moved and each foot you clear on the jump costs a foot of movement as well. From the distance given, neither character have enought movement to clear the gorge with a long jump.
The DM can always let him make an Athletics check to try to jump an unusually long distance, covering the remaining foot clearance or to grip the side of the gorge.
So the Math would be:
Ranger: 14str, Movement 30' Long Jump: Standing 7, 10+ Movement 14
Monk: 14str, Movement 40' Long Jump: Standing 7, 10+ Movement 14. Step of the Wind: Standing 14, 10+ movement 28.
The Ranger is 5 feet from the gorge.
The Monk is 30 feet from the gorge.
Ranger Attempt: Movement 30 - 5 Starting Distance = 25 remaining movement - 7 Jump = 18 movement left over, does not clear gorge.
Monk Attempt: Movement 40 - 30 Starting Distance = 10 remaining movement - 28 jump = -18 movement, not within the 40 movement allowed, can not clear gorge.
In another scenario can the monk player apply the Dash Action and clear the gorge? Even with the Ranger takes the Dash action and backup for the 10+ movement distance for a longer jump it still would not be able to clear the fifteen-foot gorge.
With Dash
Ranger: 14str, Movement 60' Long Jump: Standing 7, 10+ Movement 14
Monk: 14str, Movement 80' Long Jump: Standing 7, 10+ Movement 14. Step of the Wind: Standing 14, 10+ movement 28.
The Ranger is 5 feet from the gorge.
The Monk is 30 feet from the gorge.
Ranger Attempt: Movement 60 - 5 Starting Distance = 55 remaining movement - 7 Jump = 37 movement remaining, does not clear gorge based on 14 jump distance.
Monk Attempt: Movement 80- 30 Starting Distance = 50 remaining movement - 28 jump = 22 movement remaining, within the 80 movement allowed, clears gorge.
If the Monk use Step of the Wind, and Dash as a bonus action, he will be able to move up to the gorge and clear it with a long jump as it doubles your jumping distance.
Possible Movement 80 feet
Possible Jumping Distance 28 feet
Distance away from the other side of the gorge 45 feet.
Monk moves 30 feet to the gorge, then long jump it 15 feet and has still 35 feet of movement he can do once on the other side.
Yea I was just about to say this. The Monk can do it if he spends the Ki-point to do a Step of the Wind Dash bonus action. If he just did a normal Dash action he'd have enough total movement but not enough of a jump distance to clear the chasm.
Step of the wind is presumably being used to dash in this scenario, which gives the monk 80 feet of movement to play with - more than enough to clear the gorge with his 28 foot long jump.
And while a Ranger can't automatically clear the 15 foot gorge with a 14 foot long jump, it'd be reasonable for the DM to offer an Athletics check to help clear the last foot, perhaps by grabbing onto the ledge and pulling himself up. That's one of the textbook examples of an Athletics check.
EDIT: I missed that you listed M values. Math below assumes the Ranger Dashes, so the Ranger is M60 and the Monk is M80.
The rules references needed are pages 175 and 182 of the PHB, which contradict each other, so I will do my best to discuss the relevant issues.
Baseline, page 182:
Ranger, movement option 1: Ranger moves towards the gorge, then attempts to leap it. The Ranger spends 12 feet of movement, and has 48 remaining. The Ranger falls in the middle of the gorge, 7 feet from the starting edge and 8 feet from the far edge.
Ranger, movement option 2: Ranger backs up 5 feet, then repeats option 1, but with a 10 foot head start. The Ranger spends 29 feet of movement total (5 back, 10 forward, jump 14) and reaches a point in space 14 feet across the gorge at starting elevation, then falls, with 31 movement remaining.
Monk: Monk moves 30 feet, jumps 20 more feet, and lands with 40 more feet of movement available, since the Monk Dashed.
Complicating issues, page 182:
The rules for a high jump explicitly state you can reach out your arms a distance of half your height (curiously, this is the RAW, not the standard of specifying your reach), but fail to do so for a long jump. If the Ranger is at least 2 feet tall, this leads to the curious issue where the Ranger can add 1 foot to what they can touch with a high jump but not a long jump. If your DM is willing to fix this, the Ranger should be able to touch the edge of the gorge (since it's only a foot out), with possible interactions, like grabbing a rock or shrub, or trying to slam a piton into the ground.
Complicating issues, page 175:
Page 175 explicitly states you're entitled to make an Athletics check to jump an unusually long distance. Page 182 not only drops this ball entirely, it also says you can make the check to jump higher than normal, with absolutely no guidance for the DM how to do this in a fair or balanced fashion. The best homebrew solution I've seen so far for fixing this (for a long jump, specifically) is to let the character make an athletics check, then halve it if it's a standing long jump, then use the greater of it or the character's static jump value, in order to let you try to jump farther. In this case, assuming the Ranger backed up for a running start and is on a grid, that would mean the Ranger cleanly makes the jump with an Athletics check of 20, spending 35 feet of movement to cross the gorge in a jump and not landing until firmly in a grid square, with no rules concerns (a 15 foot gorge is 3 grid squares across, so you need 4 squares of movement, i.e. 20, to completely make it). The Ranger will have 25 feet of movement remaining.
In general, the jumping rules break down when jumping on a grid, because the RAW on grids only covers how much movement you need to traverse grid squares, not how jumping interacts - if you can jump 8 feet and have 10 feet of movement available, and you try to jump two squares, where do you land, given you're not allowed to exist anywhere but in a grid square using the grid rules? Your DM is justified both in rounding down (so an 8 foot jump can only take you 1 square) and in rounding normally (so an 8 foot jump can take you 2 squares if you have the movement, but a 12 foot jump can only take you the same 2).
To answer your final question:
If you have long jump distance X and remaining movement Y, the total distance you can jump is min(X,Y).
If he was tot take an action to Dash, he also would not have an action left to stabilize his unconscious ally even if he was strong enough to make the jump. ☺
Characters at 1 foot of the edge of the gorge can touch it. Even on a grid play he can, being in a square adjacent to the surface. Hence why i said the DM can always let him make an Athletics check to try to jump an unusually long distance, covering the remaining foot clearance or to grip the side of the gorge.
Yeah, at this point I was more interested in the math of the long jump which you all helped out immensely.
Yeah, I would allow that with the associated Athletics DC. Fortunately enough the depth of the gorge was only twenty feet so even if the character missed the extended reach it would just be 2d6 fall damage into a snowbank.
It only took 6 replies before someone realized that the monk is a monk...
Yeah, if it still has 1 Ki, it can totally get across and still have an action to stabilize.
In regards to the ranger, you could give an athletics check for extra distance, but there is no example guidance for this, so totally up to DM. I'd say something like DC 11 (10+#number of extra feet needed), and if failed by less than 5, they can catch the edge, pulling themself up with half their movement. *pretty much totally homebrewed, not RAW.