I've recently realised that my players have two many powerful items for their level after learning about magic item awarding. At level five they have three major rare items instead of one, six major uncommon items instead of two, etc. I don't want to take anything away from them, but they want to have a balanced challenge and feel like the stakes are against them.
Does anyone have a system for raising the difficulty based on the items a party have? Like maybe a medium encounter needs to raised to hard?
My concern is that these weapons are powerful, but their AC, saving throws etc don't match. So if I raise the difficulty I'm still raising the danger. Feel like it's probably something I'm going to have to wing by the encounter, but any suggestions would be great!
Aside from buffing the encounters you put before them, which is something you can totally do, you might need to take away some of the items. If only temporarily. Here are some ideas that have narratives tied to them:
Perhaps there is another group of adventurers that are envious of the fortune of your party and want to steal their equipment from them. This sounds like a good start to an adventure. The group gets some equipment stolen and they have to find out who, why, and how before getting their equipment back.
Perhaps an archmage deems the group unworthy of such equipment and dispels the enchantments that allow the items to be until the party can prove themselves worthy.
Perhaps the items start to malfunction because of some sort of magical interference and begin to become unstable and cause wild magic stuff/develop curses.
That actually doesn't seem so bad. If those items are spread around the party it shouldn't be too unbalancing. None of the weapons are above a +1. Maybe aim for Hard encounters anyway just to challenge them a bit more, though.
Where you're going to have to watch out is if they decide to start concentrating all their items onto one super buffed character who then tanks for them. Because of Bounded accuracy, any combination of the +AC items can make a character very hard to hit.
Ring of Protection + Cloak of Protection + Staff of Defense on a character who has Shield on their spell list will make someone very very tanky with a magical weapon. If their attack stat isn't maxed out, they can drop the ring or the cloak for the Gauntlets of Ogre Power.
Honestly, even if they start doing this, let them steamroll one or two encounters as a reward for tactical thinking, and then you can start countering it by throwing larger groups at them that the super tank can overwhelm.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
The Broom of Flying is going to make some parts of the Exploration pillar a breeze, so make sure to account for a flying character. It has caused trouble for a lot of DM's in the past.
The ointment, potion, gem, and the scrolls are all consumables so I wouldn't worry too much about those either, they take themselves away.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
When uping the difficulty make sure you don't increase the max damage of the monsters. The party will have greater damage output than average and greater AC than average but no more HP than average. An alternative would be to just increase their HPs.
Broom of flying does trvialise some parts of exploration but no more so tha a winged tiefling or aracokra in the party (though I admot for this reason many DMs limit or ban these races)
I am not sure the players using all the items to create one super buffed character is an optimal strategy, it will work for some combats where the rest of the party can avoid getting hit but in many others the enemy will just concentrate fire on the squishies (who are squishier becausew they gave all their magic items to the tank)
That actually doesn't seem so bad. If those items are spread around the party it shouldn't be too unbalancing. None of the weapons are above a +1. Maybe aim for Hard encounters anyway just to challenge them a bit more, though.
Where you're going to have to watch out is if they decide to start concentrating all their items onto one super buffed character who then tanks for them. Because of Bounded accuracy, any combination of the +AC items can make a character very hard to hit.
Ring of Protection + Cloak of Protection + Staff of Defense on a character who has Shield on their spell list will make someone very very tanky with a magical weapon. If their attack stat isn't maxed out, they can drop the ring or the cloak for the Gauntlets of Ogre Power.
Honestly, even if they start doing this, let them steamroll one or two encounters as a reward for tactical thinking, and then you can start countering it by throwing larger groups at them that the super tank can overwhelm.
I agree that they're not that bad. I will point out that the Staff of Defense gives you the shield spell as an action, not a reaction like the spell. When I first gave that out to a party, I always felt it was a little OP for it's rarity, because it gave the sorcerer in my party that had it and the shield spell so many uses of it. I didn't read the item description well enough and was letting all the castings be reactions.
Aside from buffing the encounters you put before them, which is something you can totally do, you might need to take away some of the items. If only temporarily. Here are some ideas that have narratives tied to them:
Perhaps there is another group of adventurers that are envious of the fortune of your party and want to steal their equipment from them. This sounds like a good start to an adventure. The group gets some equipment stolen and they have to find out who, why, and how before getting their equipment back.
Perhaps an archmage deems the group unworthy of such equipment and dispels the enchantments that allow the items to be until the party can prove themselves worthy.
Perhaps the items start to malfunction because of some sort of magical interference and begin to become unstable and cause wild magic stuff/develop curses.
I like these ideas a lot. Especially the cursed items. Though I think that would piss them off because we've been talking about it and they'd just know I'm doing it because I want to take them away ha
That actually doesn't seem so bad. If those items are spread around the party it shouldn't be too unbalancing. None of the weapons are above a +1. Maybe aim for Hard encounters anyway just to challenge them a bit more, though.
Where you're going to have to watch out is if they decide to start concentrating all their items onto one super buffed character who then tanks for them. Because of Bounded accuracy, any combination of the +AC items can make a character very hard to hit.
Ring of Protection + Cloak of Protection + Staff of Defense on a character who has Shield on their spell list will make someone very very tanky with a magical weapon. If their attack stat isn't maxed out, they can drop the ring or the cloak for the Gauntlets of Ogre Power.
Honestly, even if they start doing this, let them steamroll one or two encounters as a reward for tactical thinking, and then you can start countering it by throwing larger groups at them that the super tank can overwhelm.
This has been really helpful thanks. The rogue had the ring and the cloak with 17 AC, while the sorcerer has 12 AC, so I've suggested the sorcerer have one of those, and I've suggested that no single character starts stacking buffs etc.
I think what I might do is just add comparable buffs to enemies, but in the form of scrolls, so that the players can't loot them afterwards.
When uping the difficulty make sure you don't increase the max damage of the monsters. The party will have greater damage output than average and greater AC than average but no more HP than average. An alternative would be to just increase their HPs.
Broom of flying does trvialise some parts of exploration but no more so tha a winged tiefling or aracokra in the party (though I admot for this reason many DMs limit or ban these races)
I am not sure the players using all the items to create one super buffed character is an optimal strategy, it will work for some combats where the rest of the party can avoid getting hit but in many others the enemy will just concentrate fire on the squishies (who are squishier becausew they gave all their magic items to the tank)
Ah ok thanks for the advice on the damage. I did actually consider that!
It doesn't sound all that bad. By level 5 they should have +1 magic items so no big deal. The Dragon Slayer sounds mighty, but it only really shines against dragons.
Everything else, is ok too. If they decide to blow up the bag guy with fireballs and lightning bolts, let them. I'm willing to bet that they hang on to those things for a long long time though. Many players (not all) have a tendency to just collect a bunch of single use items for later. I've had campaigns end where they had a pile of scrolls, potions, and wands (back when they had non-recharging wands) that they never used.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
That actually doesn't seem so bad. If those items are spread around the party it shouldn't be too unbalancing. None of the weapons are above a +1. Maybe aim for Hard encounters anyway just to challenge them a bit more, though.
Where you're going to have to watch out is if they decide to start concentrating all their items onto one super buffed character who then tanks for them. Because of Bounded accuracy, any combination of the +AC items can make a character very hard to hit.
Ring of Protection + Cloak of Protection + Staff of Defense on a character who has Shield on their spell list will make someone very very tanky with a magical weapon. If their attack stat isn't maxed out, they can drop the ring or the cloak for the Gauntlets of Ogre Power.
Honestly, even if they start doing this, let them steamroll one or two encounters as a reward for tactical thinking, and then you can start countering it by throwing larger groups at them that the super tank can overwhelm.
I agree that they're not that bad. I will point out that the Staff of Defense gives you the shield spell as an action, not a reaction like the spell. When I first gave that out to a party, I always felt it was a little OP for it's rarity, because it gave the sorcerer in my party that had it and the shield spell so many uses of it. I didn't read the item description well enough and was letting all the castings be reactions.
Oh man my player did not like finding this out. Just took me a while to convince them it is not a reaction, but we got there.
Ok thats great. Feeling better about this. They fought a venom troll last session that nearly wiped them out (had no spell slots between them), and so after the fight, when I pointed out that they had a fire ball spell scroll, they were all slapping their foreheads. So one more venom troll and that scroll is gone.
Ha yeah I'm constantly reminding them of useful items that they have.
It doesn't sound all that bad. By level 5 they should have +1 magic items so no big deal. The Dragon Slayer sounds mighty, but it only really shines against dragons.
Everything else, is ok too. If they decide to blow up the bag guy with fireballs and lightning bolts, let them. I'm willing to bet that they hang on to those things for a long long time though. Many players (not all) have a tendency to just collect a bunch of single use items for later. I've had campaigns end where they had a pile of scrolls, potions, and wands (back when they had non-recharging wands) that they never used.
That’s why I love giving my players single use items. Or items that have less than 4 uses per day. They never, ever get used!
Ha yeah I'm constantly reminding them of useful items that they have.
Some folk might consider that a trap. Not everybody, but some of the people I play with, and on these boards might start to wonder why you're so eager to have them use up expendable resources. It's a player thing =)
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
Ha yeah I'm constantly reminding them of useful items that they have.
Some folk might consider that a trap. Not everybody, but some of the people I play with, and on these boards might start to wonder why you're so eager to have them use up expendable resources. It's a player thing =)
My players also forget what they have. I mostly leave my veteran players to remember that stuff on their own, but my newbie players have actually specifically requested that I remind them of the items they have, and they often ask me for advice on how to use them. I’m slowly weaning them off of my advice, as they get more comfortable with the game, but for now, they can ask me for help if they want it.
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I live with several severe autoimmune conditions. If I don’t get back to you right away, it’s probably because I’m not feeling well.
Aside from buffing the encounters you put before them, which is something you can totally do, you might need to take away some of the items. If only temporarily. Here are some ideas that have narratives tied to them:
Perhaps there is another group of adventurers that are envious of the fortune of your party and want to steal their equipment from them. This sounds like a good start to an adventure. The group gets some equipment stolen and they have to find out who, why, and how before getting their equipment back.
Perhaps an archmage deems the group unworthy of such equipment and dispels the enchantments that allow the items to be until the party can prove themselves worthy.
Perhaps the items start to malfunction because of some sort of magical interference and begin to become unstable and cause wild magic stuff/develop curses.
I like these ideas a lot. Especially the cursed items. Though I think that would piss them off because we've been talking about it and they'd just know I'm doing it because I want to take them away ha
I can only agree that curses can be extremely fun if done right. Have you told them out-of-game that there are no curses?
A way to perhaps make them give up an item willingly would be to have them exchange it for something else. Perhaps an important NPC (related to a character?) needs a specific item for some reason (to stay alive?). They'd gain respect and eternal gratitude from a perhaps very influential character. Or maybe the mighty wizard doesn't care about gold and gems, but only takes magical items as payment.
One other thing is make sure the party stays reasonably balanced especially if anyone new joins the party. I once join ToA when the party were level 5 and the GM had realised he had been overgenerous with magic items. I can't remember exactly what they had but I do remember the Barb particularly doing insane amounts of damage and the rest of the party had a load of magic stuff.
The DMs solution was to virtually giving out magic items. I played a vHuman warlock who took moderately armoured, and I was still in my chain shirt for the final boss fight (I rolled for equipment), I didn't even find half plate, the total magic items I got from starting at level 5 to the boss fight at level 12 (where we TPKed) was a helm of telepathy and a scroll of remove curse.
I've recently realised that my players have two many powerful items for their level after learning about magic item awarding.
At level five they have three major rare items instead of one, six major uncommon items instead of two, etc. I don't want to take anything away from them, but they want to have a balanced challenge and feel like the stakes are against them.
Does anyone have a system for raising the difficulty based on the items a party have? Like maybe a medium encounter needs to raised to hard?
My concern is that these weapons are powerful, but their AC, saving throws etc don't match. So if I raise the difficulty I'm still raising the danger. Feel like it's probably something I'm going to have to wing by the encounter, but any suggestions would be great!
Thanks
What kinds of items are we talking about? Are they directly useful for combat or are they utility?
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Thanks for the reply!
Major Rare
Staff of Defense, Dragon Slayer Longsword, Ring of Protection
Major uncommon
Bag of Tricks, Longsword +1, Battleaxe +1, Cloak of Protection, Gloves of Thievery, Broom of Flying, Gauntlets of Ogre Power
Minor Uncommon
Keoghtom's Ointment, Potion of resistance, Rope of Climbing, Elemental Gem, Scroll of Fireball, Scroll of Lightning Bolt
Aside from buffing the encounters you put before them, which is something you can totally do, you might need to take away some of the items. If only temporarily. Here are some ideas that have narratives tied to them:
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"Play the game however you want to play the game. After all, your fun doesn't threaten my fun."
That actually doesn't seem so bad. If those items are spread around the party it shouldn't be too unbalancing. None of the weapons are above a +1. Maybe aim for Hard encounters anyway just to challenge them a bit more, though.
Where you're going to have to watch out is if they decide to start concentrating all their items onto one super buffed character who then tanks for them. Because of Bounded accuracy, any combination of the +AC items can make a character very hard to hit.
Ring of Protection + Cloak of Protection + Staff of Defense on a character who has Shield on their spell list will make someone very very tanky with a magical weapon. If their attack stat isn't maxed out, they can drop the ring or the cloak for the Gauntlets of Ogre Power.
Honestly, even if they start doing this, let them steamroll one or two encounters as a reward for tactical thinking, and then you can start countering it by throwing larger groups at them that the super tank can overwhelm.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
The Broom of Flying is going to make some parts of the Exploration pillar a breeze, so make sure to account for a flying character. It has caused trouble for a lot of DM's in the past.
The ointment, potion, gem, and the scrolls are all consumables so I wouldn't worry too much about those either, they take themselves away.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
When uping the difficulty make sure you don't increase the max damage of the monsters. The party will have greater damage output than average and greater AC than average but no more HP than average. An alternative would be to just increase their HPs.
Broom of flying does trvialise some parts of exploration but no more so tha a winged tiefling or aracokra in the party (though I admot for this reason many DMs limit or ban these races)
I am not sure the players using all the items to create one super buffed character is an optimal strategy, it will work for some combats where the rest of the party can avoid getting hit but in many others the enemy will just concentrate fire on the squishies (who are squishier becausew they gave all their magic items to the tank)
I agree that they're not that bad. I will point out that the Staff of Defense gives you the shield spell as an action, not a reaction like the spell. When I first gave that out to a party, I always felt it was a little OP for it's rarity, because it gave the sorcerer in my party that had it and the shield spell so many uses of it. I didn't read the item description well enough and was letting all the castings be reactions.
I like these ideas a lot. Especially the cursed items. Though I think that would piss them off because we've been talking about it and they'd just know I'm doing it because I want to take them away ha
This has been really helpful thanks. The rogue had the ring and the cloak with 17 AC, while the sorcerer has 12 AC, so I've suggested the sorcerer have one of those, and I've suggested that no single character starts stacking buffs etc.
I think what I might do is just add comparable buffs to enemies, but in the form of scrolls, so that the players can't loot them afterwards.
Ah ok thanks for the advice on the damage. I did actually consider that!
It doesn't sound all that bad. By level 5 they should have +1 magic items so no big deal. The Dragon Slayer sounds mighty, but it only really shines against dragons.
Everything else, is ok too. If they decide to blow up the bag guy with fireballs and lightning bolts, let them. I'm willing to bet that they hang on to those things for a long long time though. Many players (not all) have a tendency to just collect a bunch of single use items for later. I've had campaigns end where they had a pile of scrolls, potions, and wands (back when they had non-recharging wands) that they never used.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Oh man my player did not like finding this out. Just took me a while to convince them it is not a reaction, but we got there.
Ok thats great. Feeling better about this. They fought a venom troll last session that nearly wiped them out (had no spell slots between them), and so after the fight, when I pointed out that they had a fire ball spell scroll, they were all slapping their foreheads. So one more venom troll and that scroll is gone.
Ha yeah I'm constantly reminding them of useful items that they have.
That’s why I love giving my players single use items. Or items that have less than 4 uses per day. They never, ever get used!
Professional computer geek
Some folk might consider that a trap. Not everybody, but some of the people I play with, and on these boards might start to wonder why you're so eager to have them use up expendable resources. It's a player thing =)
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
My players also forget what they have. I mostly leave my veteran players to remember that stuff on their own, but my newbie players have actually specifically requested that I remind them of the items they have, and they often ask me for advice on how to use them. I’m slowly weaning them off of my advice, as they get more comfortable with the game, but for now, they can ask me for help if they want it.
I live with several severe autoimmune conditions. If I don’t get back to you right away, it’s probably because I’m not feeling well.
I can only agree that curses can be extremely fun if done right. Have you told them out-of-game that there are no curses?
A way to perhaps make them give up an item willingly would be to have them exchange it for something else. Perhaps an important NPC (related to a character?) needs a specific item for some reason (to stay alive?). They'd gain respect and eternal gratitude from a perhaps very influential character. Or maybe the mighty wizard doesn't care about gold and gems, but only takes magical items as payment.
One other thing is make sure the party stays reasonably balanced especially if anyone new joins the party. I once join ToA when the party were level 5 and the GM had realised he had been overgenerous with magic items. I can't remember exactly what they had but I do remember the Barb particularly doing insane amounts of damage and the rest of the party had a load of magic stuff.
The DMs solution was to virtually giving out magic items. I played a vHuman warlock who took moderately armoured, and I was still in my chain shirt for the final boss fight (I rolled for equipment), I didn't even find half plate, the total magic items I got from starting at level 5 to the boss fight at level 12 (where we TPKed) was a helm of telepathy and a scroll of remove curse.
use a thief to steal some of the gear away from them and make a quest out of it :)
In my campaign my DM stole some of your gear by using monsters to test out our watchmen during a long rest.