The RAW does not actually state what happens if you run out of movement mid-jump, nor does the SAC...it only says you cannot jump more than your movement speed on a turn.
Unless someone can clearly find a rule that explicitly says you fall if you fail to complete a jump on your turn, that is.
Just to be clear, are you proposing that a PC with 20 feet of jump just keep jumping after their movement for their turn is done? So if faced with a 100 foot chasm, they jump 20 feet, then on their next turn they jump again, and continue to jump until they get to the other side of the chasm?
That's not how it would work in my game, but every GM is allowed to do their own thing.
No, that is not what I am proposing. What I am proposing is that if you have 30 feet of movement, and you can long jump 20 feet, on turn A, you could run 20' and long jump, with 10' being expended on turn A and 10' feet being expended on Turn B automatically.
you don't "stop" when you run out of movement, you have just exhausted the 6 seconds of time in the current turn. Turns flow one into the other, and I see no reason why movement has to be broken up so long as the movement economy (your speed) is maintained turn by turn. As far as I can tell, there is no rule that says this cannot be the case, just a lot of assumptions.
What are you to do? Use the assumptions built in to the rules that are given reminders throughout various places in the game: you can jump as far as your movement allows.
The only "problem" with my interpretation is that a character doesn't get to do a thing that sounds like you think you are entitled to do. But you aren't, your movement is limited in combat by your speed. Your interpretation introduces problems that you can't address whereas mine only introduces the limitation that is assumed by the game and emphasized by items like the boots of striding and springing: jumping is limited by movement.
So "combat" fundamentally alters what a PC can do? because you are saying that a PC that could otherwise jump 60' (STR 20 + jump spell), can't, only because they are fighting and the jump occurs at the wrong time? That makes no logical sense and it is perfectly fair to, as a DM, rule that you can.
The fact is there is no rule that says you fall if you end your turn mid-jump, nor is there one that says you fall if you use up your movement before the jump is complete. If I'm wrong, then cite it.
So "combat" fundamentally alters what a PC can do?
Mechanically, yes, particularly when it comes to movement. Or do you think most characters can only walk 30 feet at a time without needing a break?
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
What are you to do? Use the assumptions built in to the rules that are given reminders throughout various places in the game: you can jump as far as your movement allows.
The only "problem" with my interpretation is that a character doesn't get to do a thing that sounds like you think you are entitled to do. But you aren't, your movement is limited in combat by your speed. Your interpretation introduces problems that you can't address whereas mine only introduces the limitation that is assumed by the game and emphasized by items like the boots of striding and springing: jumping is limited by movement.
So "combat" fundamentally alters what a PC can do? because you are saying that a PC that could otherwise jump 60' (STR 20 + jump spell), can't, only because they are fighting and the jump occurs at the wrong time? That makes no logical sense and it is perfectly fair to, as a DM, rule that you can.
The fact is there is no rule that says you fall if you end your turn mid-jump, nor is there one that says you fall if you use up your movement before the jump is complete. If I'm wrong, then cite it.
There doesn't have to be a rule to tell you what happens when you end your turn mid jump, since you can't end your turn mid jump. There's also no rule that actually says you can end your turn mid jump -- that is an assumption that none of the other side has been able to cite a rule for. The only rule I've seen anyone ever mention is the rule from the adventuring chapter about how far one might be able to jump when not limited by movement in combat.
But there do happen to be rules that tell you that your jump distance is limited by your movement speed -- so you can't jump further than your remaining movement and cannot end a jump mid-jump. And rules that tell you that you fall. And rules that tell you that you stay aloft when flying or you have hover or magic, so staying aloft is clearly not a given for all creatures all the time. And magic items that remind you that your jump is limited by your speed on your turn. And most certainly above there are rules that tell you what you can do in combat and how it is different than adventuring (in fact, those are two entirely different chapters). I have cited most of them already already.
I've made my argument, if you don't get it still, that's not my problem anymore.
As the rules say, Stenght determine how far you can jump and that you move on your turn - including jumping - until your your speed is used up or until you are done moving. No rules say out of turn you are considered still moving or jumping.
The core rules don't define what cause a fall, only the result from it. DM must determine what cause a fall where many will assume anyone ending a move in mid air falls unless it can remain aloft somehow.
Jumping: Your Strength determines how far you can jump. Either way, each foot you clear on the jump costs a foot of movement.
Movement and Position: On your turn, you can move a distance up to your speed. Your movement can include jumping...However you're moving, you deduct the distance of each part of your move from your speed until it is used up or until you are done moving.
While not official ruling, the Dev evoked taking falling damage from a jump on X before:
@Hungryghoast if someone uses Jump or a magic item to jump straight upward 30 feet, do they take 30 feet falling dmg coming back down?
@JeremyECrawford As DM, I'd probably roll falling damage if a character jumped straight up and then dropped like a stone.
Strenght and Speed limit how far a creature can move (including jumping) in a round, assuming short bursts of energetic movement in the midst of a life threatening situation and outside that round tracking which is about 6 second span. travel pace is what determine how far can someone move in longer period of time.
You can certainly jump when traveling for a minute, hour or day, but it shouldn't be greater than the distance you can normally do within a round and if you don't land at the end of such jump you should fall, otherwise characters could jump long chasm during travel etc...
Speed: Every character and monster has a speed, which is the distance in feet that the character or monster can walk in 1 round. This number assumes short bursts of energetic movement in the midst of a lifethreatening situation. The following rules (Travel Pace) determine how far a character or monster can move in a minute, an hour, or a day.
Funny, jumping around and searching and still can’t find that single rule that states: “when JUMPING, if your SPEED is 0, you begin to fall immediately.”
All I have been able to find are 2 rules that deal with the FLYING mechanism and what happens when your SPEED is 0, but JUMPING, nothing not a damn thing and that seems odd?
And the rules clearly state: “On your turn, you can move a distance up to your speed. You can use as much or as little of your speed as you like on your turn, following the rules here.”, so what the problem?
read above as “Your speed determines the distance you can move on your turn. You can use as much or as little of your ( now here is that small piece of the puzzle) MOVEMENT as you like on your turn, following the rules here”
WAIT, WHAT, No not that simple? ( said sarcastically in dwarvish ) jumping up and down excitedly.
Funny, jumping around and searching and still can’t find that single rule that states: “when JUMPING, if your SPEED is 0, you begin to fall immediately.”
If your speed is 0, you can't move at all, including jumping.
That's because you can't jump more than your speed. When jumping, your jump ends when you run out of movement.
Like I said in my first post, sometimes we get some Airbud arguments in these forums. "There's no rule that says I can't" isn't a compelling argument. It is at least as damning for your argument as any other that there isn't a rule that says what to do if you are mid jump at the end of your movement -- because that would be something YOU NEED TO KNOW if you could do such a thing. The apparent lack of consideration of such a nonsensical situation is evidence enough that it isn't a game possibility.
Strenght and Speed limit how far a creature can move (including jumping) in a round, assuming short bursts of energetic movement in the midst of a life threatening situation and outside that round tracking which is about 6 second span. travel pace is what determine how far can someone move in longer period of time.
You can certainly jump when traveling for a minute, hour or day, but it shouldn't be greater than the distance you can normally do within a round and if you don't land at the end of such jump you should fall, otherwise characters could jump long chasm during travel etc...
Speed: Every character and monster has a speed, which is the distance in feet that the character or monster can walk in 1 round. This number assumes short bursts of energetic movement in the midst of a lifethreatening situation. The following rules (Travel Pace) determine how far a character or monster can move in a minute, an hour, or a day.
Yes and 1 round is defined as about 6 seconds in game.
We call it 6 seconds because we don't know what fraction of the 5th second it actually ends on 5.6? 5.7? 5.8? 5.9? Assuming they are rounding to the next second.
The Order of Combat:
A typical combat encounter is a clash between two sides, a flurry of weapon swings, feints, parries, footwork, and spellcasting. The game organizes the chaos of combat into a cycle of rounds and turns. A round represents about 6 seconds in the game world. <<<<<Every round lasts only about 6 seconds. During a round, each participant in a battle takes a turn. <<<<<each turn is representing what each character is doing for that round or (6 seconds). The order of turns is determined at the beginning of a combat encounter, when everyone rolls initiative. <<<<<How to determine who goes in what order to explain their actions/movements for that (6 seconds) Once everyone has taken a turn, the fight continues to the next round if neither side has defeated the other.<<<<If no one wins move to the next round... (The next 6 seconds in game)
Speed:
Every character and monster has a speed, which is the distance in feet that the character or monster can walk in 1 round.<<<<<<1 round = 6 seconds in game This number assumes short bursts of energetic movement in the midst of a lifethreatening situation.<<<<during combat.
Combat Step-by-Step:
Determine surprise. The DM determines whether anyone involved in the combat encounter is surprised. <<<<<< What if a character is jumping and is surprised mid-air? do they fall? No realizing, thinking, or feeling a certain way does not stop your movement in mid-air.
Establish positions. The DM decides where all the characters and monsters are located. Given the adventurers’ marching order or their stated positions in the room or other location, the DM figures out where the adversaries are—how far away and in what direction.<<<<< same as at the end of a round establishing position. If you don't use all your movement or none of it, you are marking where they are at that 6th second is all.
Roll initiative. Everyone involved in the combat encounter rolls initiative, determining the order of combatants’ turns.<<<<same as the order of combat rules.
Take turns. Each participant in the battle takes a turn in initiative order. <<<<Same as order of combat
Begin the next round. When everyone involved in the combat has had a turn, the round ends. Repeat step 4 until the fighting stops. <<<< 6 seconds has now ended continue with the next 6 seconds...... Until someone wins.....Where you no longer need to play the game in 6 second intervals. Jumping:
Your Strength determines how far you can jump. <<<<<This is the Only thing that measures how far you can jump too.
Long Jump. ((When you make a long jump, you cover a number of feet up to your Strength score if you move at least 10 feet on foot immediately before the jump. When you make a standing long jump, you can leap only half that distance.)) <<<<This is how you calculate based on the Strength score what that measurement is... If you use "at least" 10 feet you can jump equal your jump score.... If you don't move at all its half your strength score. (((Move AT LEAST 10 feet... you can move more... but if you move that minimum you can go this far. Doesn't say first 10 ft., last 10ft., middle 10 ft., doesn't even limit you to just 10 feet prior to jumping. Just do this minimum amount before hand and this is how far you can go.PERIOD.))) Either way, each foot you clear on the jump costs a foot of movement.<<<<<Just so you can establish position, in order to know where the character is at the beginning of round 2 or where they are at if combat ends in 1 round. (6 Seconds) {Clear =go without interruption, no obstacles}
This rule assumes that the height of your jump doesn’t matter, such as a jump across a stream or chasm. <<<<Long jumps just happen if nothing is in the way At your DM’s option, you must succeed on a DC 10 Strength (Athletics) check to clear a low obstacle (no taller than a quarter of the jump’s distance), such as a hedge or low wall. Otherwise, you hit it. <<<<<what to do if there is an obstacle and the height of it to determine if you hit it if it is higher..... If it is lower roll a athletics check. make the roll you continue on with your jump...don't make it you hit "stop and fall..presumably".
When you land in difficult terrain, you must succeed on a DC 10 Dexterity (Acrobatics) check to land on your feet. Otherwise, you land prone. <<<<<When all that is said and done above, and figured out... When you land if it is difficult terrain roll acrobatics....Not if you land...When you land. and if you fail that you land prone.
Basically the Only time you can fall is if there is a obstacle higher than 1/4 of the jump length or if you fail the athletics roll for something lower.
Now ruling outside of this is your own homebrew rules, nothing else in the rules say you fall or that your jump doesn't continue. Using movement does not mean you fall as time in game does not stop and the ONLY thing to determine how far you can go is the strength calculation ALONE.
Is this whole thing just because you're trying to reconcile turn based combat with "real time" out of game-rules narrative?
Do you notice that there's a huge assumption in the second red addition? The rules say a round is six seconds, and you equate that to a turn being 6 seconds, even though those aren't the same. Flawed assumptions the whole way down just to get to a point that makes sense outside of game logic.
It is absolutely fine for turns to occur in sequence in a round. In fact it is necessary in order for combat to function with any causality. It would also be necessary for the narrative, unless you want to re-explain it as some average of the actions of performed during the round.
The logical extension to your rule is that if my turn is after the guy who jumped out the window, I can just stab where he started his turn, since my turn is technically at the same time as him, and even though at the end of my turn he still hasn't finished his jump, at the beginning of it he hasn't even started running.
If you make assumptions in your ruling that are inconsistent with logic, the devs assumptions, and/or the game, then it isn't fair to call other's rulings homebrew. You are wrong about what determines jump distance. There are even items that tell you that you're wrong.
Basically the Only time you can fall is if there is a obstacle higher than 1/4 of the jump length or if you fail the athletics roll for something lower.
My approach to combat takes into account the fact that in the rules as a whole, DMG pg.270 Combat Options Initiative Variants, exist.
While these variants are extremely rarely used, they are available for DM’s to use, and if dynamic initiative is used, what then? Well the DM is the one who has the power to alter in game reality in ways that force the rules of the game, as broad and flexible as they are permitted, the ability to accommodate the possible changes that might occur during play, and players to really know what their characters are capable of doing when the time comes to make decisions based on what has and is happening in the moment.
Of course a DM should address this possibility well before any measure of play is started.
I have no issue with homebrew, as long as it keeps to the spirit of the broader picture of the game and the openness of such as to only restrict when necessary.
The game in general allows for some interesting dynamics and situations that are illogical by real life standards, but yet deep into the insanity we wade.
Sorry, but it was a team of individuals who helped develop the game and rules thereof that we live and die by as avatars of the world we might find ourselves in, and one single person who has a unique position and title in helping to create the rules does not constitute absolute authority on how I as an individual can determine how the rules in general work, and any opinion they have on how to deal with specifics is their version of homebrew that they are entitled to make but that does not mean that everyone has to absolutely rule by that opinion, and those who don’t fall in line are wrong and have no idea about what they are talking about.
5e is the first edition that actually give the game a jump mechanic that does not involve a one hour power-point presentation with charts, figures and diagrams ( but according to some is needed in this case ), but makes it easier to use.
Hell, just the simple addition to the description of the spell jump stated as: ( * for every 3 feet of jump covered one foot of movement is used ) would keep the general rules better balanced then half-ass homebrewing a specific rule tied directly to an extraordinary item and even reenforces the specific rule for that item and opens more versatility and variety in gameplay.
But damned be me for making my life as a DM or player easier and more entertaining by wanting to jump though that 500 story window across a horde of enemies and feet first into that portal to hell, so those damned robot messages about my horses extended warranty is about to expire would quit one way or another. ( said sarcastically in dwarvish )
Is this whole thing just because you're trying to reconcile turn based combat with "real time" out of game-rules narrative?
Do you notice that there's a huge assumption in the second red addition? The rules say a round is six seconds, and you equate that to a turn being 6 seconds, even though those aren't the same. Flawed assumptions the whole way down just to get to a point that makes sense outside of game logic.
It is absolutely fine for turns to occur in sequence in a round. In fact it is necessary in order for combat to function with any causality. It would also be necessary for the narrative, unless you want to re-explain it as some average of the actions of performed during the round.
The logical extension to your rule is that if my turn is after the guy who jumped out the window, I can just stab where he started his turn, since my turn is technically at the same time as him, and even though at the end of my turn he still hasn't finished his jump, at the beginning of it he hasn't even started running.
If you make assumptions in your ruling that are inconsistent with logic, the devs assumptions, and/or the game, then it isn't fair to call other's rulings homebrew. You are wrong about what determines jump distance. There are even items that tell you that you're wrong.
Look if you want to choose a portion of a rule to fit your narrative go right ahead. I read and use rules in their entirety to determine what they are, failing that I look at other rules, failing that I apply real world applications, and common sense.
I can prove time is consistent in game with a simple question. How many rounds does a spell with a duration of 1 minute last? The answer is 10 rounds..check it out you will not receive a different answer no matter how hard you try. 6 seconds X 10 =60 seconds. Previously you said that game time and real time pass at the same time, now your saying turns in game what? take fractions of a second? Both can't be correct and I will argue that both are incorrect.
There is a rule for stabbing a guy jumping out the window, and you don't have to wait for your turn..... it is called using your reaction for a opportunity attack.? If he hasn't started the jump yet at the end of his turn, he is still reachable from his established position which is still on the ground/floor so you can get within 5 ft and stab?
You absolutely can and If you want to get really picky about the rules, provably should rewind a players turn, if things others do after their turn would effect them, but hardly anyone does it as it would make the combat last much longer in real time. The reason for most not re-doing turns is because retconning one thing could lead to a chain reaction that retcons everyone's following turn that was already taken, it is not because they don't go at the same time..... it is just to simplify it, and keep combat moving forward. Combat is the best and worst part about the game, its great because much of the tension is during combat..... but bad because it takes up so much real time.
I have played games where the DM would ret-con and redo turns. <this is easy to do, and everyone can follow it, it is just time consuming.
I have also played games where the Dm says, "Everyone send me what your doing this round and I will explain how it all happens at once." everyone still makes their roll when asked but it all applies at the same time.< this is much harder to do as it is the Dm alone seeing and explaining all the moving parts.
So now want to point to items to prove a point, items have been made up by many different people and not all of them are on the same page of how the game works, the same goes for spells and abilities.
You are aware that Jeremy Crawford contradicts what he says constantly, even after statement "the jump is limited to movement" comment. The very next answer he gave was contradicting to that very same statement. I will quote it here " 20 Strength running long jump: up to 20 ft. With jump spell: up to 60 ft. with a speed of 30 ft. and Dash." Where is the -10ft for the running? would it not be 50 ft.? or 45 ft. if not running before hand? Why is it still a total 60 ft.? Where did that calculation come from and why is it he is saying they can still make up to the 60 ft. jump distance?
Basically the Only time you can fall is if there is a obstacle higher than 1/4 of the jump length or if you fail the athletics roll for something lower.
Exactly, it is what the rules say. but where are you jumping too? the open air or a solid destination other then the ground? Assuming they can't fly or cast feather fall etc to prevent it. This would be a time of a strictly narrative based ruling. IMO.
You absolutely can and If you want to get really picky about the rules, provably should rewind a players turn, if things others do after their turn would effect them, but hardly anyone does it as it would make the combat last much longer in real time. The reason for most not re-doing turns is because retconning one thing could lead to a chain reaction that retcons everyone's following turn that was already taken, it is not because they don't go at the same time..... it is just to simplify it, and keep combat moving forward. Combat is the best and worst part about the game, its great because much of the tension is during combat..... but bad because it takes up so much real time.
I have played games where the DM would ret-con and redo turns. <this is easy to do, and everyone can follow it, it is just time consuming.
I have also played games where the Dm says, "Everyone send me what your doing this round and I will explain how it all happens at once." everyone still makes their roll when asked but it all applies at the same time.< this is much harder to do as it is the Dm alone seeing and explaining all the moving parts.
This explains a lot. Still not the game described by the PHB, but it explains a lot. I certainly wouldn't expect to come to the same ruling as you for almost anything after reading this section.
You made the same mistake again, equating turns and rounds.
That is because you still aren't understanding the Fact that everyone's turn during the round is the same 6 seconds. Rounds and turns a synonymous with each other, when someone takes their turn it is what they did for the round. If there are 100 people playing and 100 enemies being played by the GM after they all go, it was still only 6 seconds in game. Everyone's turn was not 0.03 hundredths of a second in game. Same goes if it is just the Gm with one enemy and a single player. It is the same 6 seconds in game. Each turn was not 3 seconds passed in game.
No matter how long you think a turn is, you keep saying a thing that the rules don't say. The rules say how long a round is (about 6 seconds), and don't give any indication a turn is the same length -- anything else is an absolute assumption. In fact, you have been putting a lot of spin on rules throughout this thread. I think that kind of spin is problematic when we're trying to understand rules in a sub-forum or thread.
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No, that is not what I am proposing. What I am proposing is that if you have 30 feet of movement, and you can long jump 20 feet, on turn A, you could run 20' and long jump, with 10' being expended on turn A and 10' feet being expended on Turn B automatically.
you don't "stop" when you run out of movement, you have just exhausted the 6 seconds of time in the current turn. Turns flow one into the other, and I see no reason why movement has to be broken up so long as the movement economy (your speed) is maintained turn by turn. As far as I can tell, there is no rule that says this cannot be the case, just a lot of assumptions.
So "combat" fundamentally alters what a PC can do? because you are saying that a PC that could otherwise jump 60' (STR 20 + jump spell), can't, only because they are fighting and the jump occurs at the wrong time? That makes no logical sense and it is perfectly fair to, as a DM, rule that you can.
The fact is there is no rule that says you fall if you end your turn mid-jump, nor is there one that says you fall if you use up your movement before the jump is complete. If I'm wrong, then cite it.
Mechanically, yes, particularly when it comes to movement. Or do you think most characters can only walk 30 feet at a time without needing a break?
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Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
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Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
There doesn't have to be a rule to tell you what happens when you end your turn mid jump, since you can't end your turn mid jump. There's also no rule that actually says you can end your turn mid jump -- that is an assumption that none of the other side has been able to cite a rule for. The only rule I've seen anyone ever mention is the rule from the adventuring chapter about how far one might be able to jump when not limited by movement in combat.
But there do happen to be rules that tell you that your jump distance is limited by your movement speed -- so you can't jump further than your remaining movement and cannot end a jump mid-jump. And rules that tell you that you fall. And rules that tell you that you stay aloft when flying or you have hover or magic, so staying aloft is clearly not a given for all creatures all the time. And magic items that remind you that your jump is limited by your speed on your turn. And most certainly above there are rules that tell you what you can do in combat and how it is different than adventuring (in fact, those are two entirely different chapters). I have cited most of them already already.
I've made my argument, if you don't get it still, that's not my problem anymore.
The core rules don't define what cause a fall, only the result from it. DM must determine what cause a fall where many will assume anyone ending a move in mid air falls unless it can remain aloft somehow.
While not official ruling, the Dev evoked taking falling damage from a jump on X before:
Strenght and Speed limit how far a creature can move (including jumping) in a round, assuming short bursts of energetic movement in the midst of a life threatening situation and outside that round tracking which is about 6 second span. travel pace is what determine how far can someone move in longer period of time.
You can certainly jump when traveling for a minute, hour or day, but it shouldn't be greater than the distance you can normally do within a round and if you don't land at the end of such jump you should fall, otherwise characters could jump long chasm during travel etc...
Funny, jumping around and searching and still can’t find that single rule that states: “when JUMPING, if your SPEED is 0, you begin to fall immediately.”
All I have been able to find are 2 rules that deal with the FLYING mechanism and what happens when your SPEED is 0, but JUMPING, nothing not a damn thing and that seems odd?
And the rules clearly state: “On your turn, you can move a distance up to your speed. You can use as much or as little of your speed as you like on your turn, following the rules here.”, so what the problem?
read above as “Your speed determines the distance you can move on your turn. You can use as much or as little of your ( now here is that small piece of the puzzle) MOVEMENT as you like on your turn, following the rules here”
WAIT, WHAT, No not that simple? ( said sarcastically in dwarvish ) jumping up and down excitedly.
If your speed is 0, you can't move at all, including jumping.
That's because you can't jump more than your speed. When jumping, your jump ends when you run out of movement.
Like I said in my first post, sometimes we get some Airbud arguments in these forums. "There's no rule that says I can't" isn't a compelling argument. It is at least as damning for your argument as any other that there isn't a rule that says what to do if you are mid jump at the end of your movement -- because that would be something YOU NEED TO KNOW if you could do such a thing. The apparent lack of consideration of such a nonsensical situation is evidence enough that it isn't a game possibility.
And so as our dwarf jumps off into the sunset, his last words hanging mid-air :
”Rule as you wish for the power is yours, it’s just a game to those who guide us.”
Yes and 1 round is defined as about 6 seconds in game.
We call it 6 seconds because we don't know what fraction of the 5th second it actually ends on 5.6? 5.7? 5.8? 5.9? Assuming they are rounding to the next second.
The Order of Combat:
A typical combat encounter is a clash between two sides, a flurry of weapon swings, feints, parries, footwork, and spellcasting.
The game organizes the chaos of combat into a cycle of rounds and turns.
A round represents about 6 seconds in the game world. <<<<<Every round lasts only about 6 seconds.
During a round, each participant in a battle takes a turn. <<<<<each turn is representing what each character is doing for that round or (6 seconds).
The order of turns is determined at the beginning of a combat encounter, when everyone rolls initiative. <<<<<How to determine who goes in what order to explain their actions/movements for that (6 seconds)
Once everyone has taken a turn, the fight continues to the next round if neither side has defeated the other.<<<<If no one wins move to the next round... (The next 6 seconds in game)
Speed:
Every character and monster has a speed, which is the distance in feet that the character or monster can walk in 1 round.<<<<<<1 round = 6 seconds in game
This number assumes short bursts of energetic movement in the midst of a lifethreatening situation.<<<<during combat.
Combat Step-by-Step:
Jumping:
Your Strength determines how far you can jump. <<<<<This is the Only thing that measures how far you can jump too.
Long Jump.
((When you make a long jump, you cover a number of feet up to your Strength score if you move at least 10 feet on foot immediately before the jump.
When you make a standing long jump, you can leap only half that distance.)) <<<<This is how you calculate based on the Strength score what that measurement is...
If you use "at least" 10 feet you can jump equal your jump score.... If you don't move at all its half your strength score.
(((Move AT LEAST 10 feet... you can move more... but if you move that minimum you can go this far. Doesn't say first 10 ft., last 10ft., middle 10 ft., doesn't even limit you to just 10 feet prior to jumping. Just do this minimum amount before hand and this is how far you can go.PERIOD.)))
Either way, each foot you clear on the jump costs a foot of movement.<<<<<Just so you can establish position, in order to know where the character is at the beginning of round 2 or where they are at if combat ends in 1 round. (6 Seconds) {Clear =go without interruption, no obstacles}
This rule assumes that the height of your jump doesn’t matter, such as a jump across a stream or chasm. <<<<Long jumps just happen if nothing is in the way
At your DM’s option, you must succeed on a DC 10 Strength (Athletics) check to clear a low obstacle (no taller than a quarter of the jump’s distance), such as a hedge or low wall. Otherwise, you hit it. <<<<<what to do if there is an obstacle and the height of it to determine if you hit it if it is higher..... If it is lower roll a athletics check. make the roll you continue on with your jump...don't make it you hit "stop and fall..presumably".
When you land in difficult terrain, you must succeed on a DC 10 Dexterity (Acrobatics) check to land on your feet. Otherwise, you land prone. <<<<<When all that is said and done above, and figured out... When you land if it is difficult terrain roll acrobatics....Not if you land...When you land. and if you fail that you land prone.
Basically the Only time you can fall is if there is a obstacle higher than 1/4 of the jump length or if you fail the athletics roll for something lower.
Now ruling outside of this is your own homebrew rules, nothing else in the rules say you fall or that your jump doesn't continue.
Using movement does not mean you fall as time in game does not stop and the ONLY thing to determine how far you can go is the strength calculation ALONE.
Is this whole thing just because you're trying to reconcile turn based combat with "real time" out of game-rules narrative?
Do you notice that there's a huge assumption in the second red addition? The rules say a round is six seconds, and you equate that to a turn being 6 seconds, even though those aren't the same. Flawed assumptions the whole way down just to get to a point that makes sense outside of game logic.
It is absolutely fine for turns to occur in sequence in a round. In fact it is necessary in order for combat to function with any causality. It would also be necessary for the narrative, unless you want to re-explain it as some average of the actions of performed during the round.
The logical extension to your rule is that if my turn is after the guy who jumped out the window, I can just stab where he started his turn, since my turn is technically at the same time as him, and even though at the end of my turn he still hasn't finished his jump, at the beginning of it he hasn't even started running.
If you make assumptions in your ruling that are inconsistent with logic, the devs assumptions, and/or the game, then it isn't fair to call other's rulings homebrew. You are wrong about what determines jump distance. There are even items that tell you that you're wrong.
I love the idea that as long as the window sill is less than 1/4 of the jump, I don't fall when I jump out of the top story of the tower.
My approach to combat takes into account the fact that in the rules as a whole, DMG pg.270 Combat Options Initiative Variants, exist.
While these variants are extremely rarely used, they are available for DM’s to use, and if dynamic initiative is used, what then? Well the DM is the one who has the power to alter in game reality in ways that force the rules of the game, as broad and flexible as they are permitted, the ability to accommodate the possible changes that might occur during play, and players to really know what their characters are capable of doing when the time comes to make decisions based on what has and is happening in the moment.
Of course a DM should address this possibility well before any measure of play is started.
I have no issue with homebrew, as long as it keeps to the spirit of the broader picture of the game and the openness of such as to only restrict when necessary.
The game in general allows for some interesting dynamics and situations that are illogical by real life standards, but yet deep into the insanity we wade.
Sorry, but it was a team of individuals who helped develop the game and rules thereof that we live and die by as avatars of the world we might find ourselves in, and one single person who has a unique position and title in helping to create the rules does not constitute absolute authority on how I as an individual can determine how the rules in general work, and any opinion they have on how to deal with specifics is their version of homebrew that they are entitled to make but that does not mean that everyone has to absolutely rule by that opinion, and those who don’t fall in line are wrong and have no idea about what they are talking about.
5e is the first edition that actually give the game a jump mechanic that does not involve a one hour power-point presentation with charts, figures and diagrams ( but according to some is needed in this case ), but makes it easier to use.
Hell, just the simple addition to the description of the spell jump stated as: ( * for every 3 feet of jump covered one foot of movement is used ) would keep the general rules better balanced then half-ass homebrewing a specific rule tied directly to an extraordinary item and even reenforces the specific rule for that item and opens more versatility and variety in gameplay.
But damned be me for making my life as a DM or player easier and more entertaining by wanting to jump though that 500 story window across a horde of enemies and feet first into that portal to hell, so those damned robot messages about my horses extended warranty is about to expire would quit one way or another. ( said sarcastically in dwarvish )
Look if you want to choose a portion of a rule to fit your narrative go right ahead.
I read and use rules in their entirety to determine what they are, failing that I look at other rules, failing that I apply real world applications, and common sense.
I can prove time is consistent in game with a simple question.
How many rounds does a spell with a duration of 1 minute last?
The answer is 10 rounds..check it out you will not receive a different answer no matter how hard you try.
6 seconds X 10 =60 seconds.
Previously you said that game time and real time pass at the same time, now your saying turns in game what? take fractions of a second?
Both can't be correct and I will argue that both are incorrect.
There is a rule for stabbing a guy jumping out the window, and you don't have to wait for your turn..... it is called using your reaction for a opportunity attack.?
If he hasn't started the jump yet at the end of his turn, he is still reachable from his established position which is still on the ground/floor so you can get within 5 ft and stab?
You absolutely can and If you want to get really picky about the rules, provably should rewind a players turn, if things others do after their turn would effect them, but hardly anyone does it as it would make the combat last much longer in real time.
The reason for most not re-doing turns is because retconning one thing could lead to a chain reaction that retcons everyone's following turn that was already taken, it is not because they don't go at the same time..... it is just to simplify it, and keep combat moving forward.
Combat is the best and worst part about the game, its great because much of the tension is during combat..... but bad because it takes up so much real time.
I have played games where the DM would ret-con and redo turns. <this is easy to do, and everyone can follow it, it is just time consuming.
I have also played games where the Dm says, "Everyone send me what your doing this round and I will explain how it all happens at once." everyone still makes their roll when asked but it all applies at the same time.< this is much harder to do as it is the Dm alone seeing and explaining all the moving parts.
So now want to point to items to prove a point, items have been made up by many different people and not all of them are on the same page of how the game works, the same goes for spells and abilities.
You are aware that Jeremy Crawford contradicts what he says constantly, even after statement "the jump is limited to movement" comment.
The very next answer he gave was contradicting to that very same statement.
I will quote it here " 20 Strength running long jump: up to 20 ft. With jump spell: up to 60 ft. with a speed of 30 ft. and Dash."
Where is the -10ft for the running? would it not be 50 ft.? or 45 ft. if not running before hand?
Why is it still a total 60 ft.? Where did that calculation come from and why is it he is saying they can still make up to the 60 ft. jump distance?
You made the same mistake again, equating turns and rounds.
This explains a lot. Still not the game described by the PHB, but it explains a lot. I certainly wouldn't expect to come to the same ruling as you for almost anything after reading this section.
That is because you still aren't understanding the Fact that everyone's turn during the round is the same 6 seconds.
Rounds and turns a synonymous with each other, when someone takes their turn it is what they did for the round.
If there are 100 people playing and 100 enemies being played by the GM after they all go, it was still only 6 seconds in game. Everyone's turn was not 0.03 hundredths of a second in game.
Same goes if it is just the Gm with one enemy and a single player. It is the same 6 seconds in game. Each turn was not 3 seconds passed in game.
No matter how long you think a turn is, you keep saying a thing that the rules don't say. The rules say how long a round is (about 6 seconds), and don't give any indication a turn is the same length -- anything else is an absolute assumption. In fact, you have been putting a lot of spin on rules throughout this thread. I think that kind of spin is problematic when we're trying to understand rules in a sub-forum or thread.