As far as what I have used in my games, teleporting into an area counts as entering it, unless the only area warded is the perimeter. For example, use the Alarm spell. Alarm wards a 20-foot cube of space, triggering the spell's response if a creature enters it. It wards the entire 20 foot cube of square feet, meaning that if you are found inside the cube, even through means of a Misty Step or Teleport spell, the Alarm spell triggers.
Now, let's say that Alarm only wards the very outside of the 20-foot cube. In that case, if you vanish and reappear on the other side, the Alarm wound NOT trigger, since you never technically crossed the threshold, you appeared beyond it. This is the same reason why you don't activate every warded area in you path if you were to cast Teleport and travel a vast distance.
One might just choose to ward the perimeter, though. You might be alarming a house, which is likely bigger than 20' x 20'. By alarming the perimeter you can manage the outer wall of a larger building (as long as it is all within 30' of the caster).
True! I hadn't thought of making the spell work like that. In that case, (at least how I would rule it), the warded space counts as only, let's say, the walls and threshold of the house, so if you were to cast Teleport inside of it, you never actually entered the warded space, so you would avoid the Alarm spell. If you walked through, then that would be a really clever use of the spell to ward a larger area though! And that is mostly how a level 1 spell is used anyways, so it would totally work.
The suggestion that teleporting, say 30 feet, into the spell’s area should do 2d4 x 6 damage is ridiculous, quite frankly. I think 28 pages has caused people to fall too deep into the detail of RAW and away from the safety of logic. If I were to teleport into a load of spikes, why would it hurt me more if I teleported in from 30 feet away than if I teleported in from a foot away? Come on.
Even in pointing out RAW, assuming that there is no exemption for teleporting, I have never said 'based on the full distance of the teleport,' nor has anyone else.
Keep in mind that I am arguing for 0 damage since, to me, you move 0' in. However, if someone is arguing that the arriving person has moved 5' within the area, technically they have moved the full distance from edge to arrival point, not merely 5'. If one insists that there is no exemption for teleporting, then there is no exemption for teleporting.
If there is an exemption for teleporting there is an exemption and no damage.
As you're probably aware though, no one on the opposing side of this argument is arguing this. It is clearly the case that there is a distinction between "moving" and "moving through", and the nonsensical idea that "if teleport is moving, then you take all the damage" is a straw man.
We keep returning to these nonsense arguments, when all that is needed is the recognition of different contexts for what counts as movement. Teleport usually counts as moving (as in it changes your location). It counts as "entering an area", but I can't think of a time when it counts as "moving through, or within" an area.
The suggestion that teleporting, say 30 feet, into the spell’s area should do 2d4 x 6 damage is ridiculous, quite frankly. I think 28 pages has caused people to fall too deep into the detail of RAW and away from the safety of logic. If I were to teleport into a load of spikes, why would it hurt me more if I teleported in from 30 feet away than if I teleported in from a foot away? Come on.
Even in pointing out RAW, assuming that there is no exemption for teleporting, I have never said 'based on the full distance of the teleport,' nor has anyone else.
Keep in mind that I am arguing for 0 damage since, to me, you move 0' in. However, if someone is arguing that the arriving person has moved 5' within the area, technically they have moved the full distance from edge to arrival point, not merely 5'. If one insists that there is no exemption for teleporting, then there is no exemption for teleporting.
If there is an exemption for teleporting there is an exemption and no damage.
As you're probably aware though, no one on the opposing side of this argument is arguing this. It is clearly the case that there is a distinction between "moving" and "moving through", and the nonsensical idea that "if teleport is moving, then you take all the damage" is a straw man.
We keep returning to these nonsense arguments, when all that is needed is the recognition of different contexts for what counts as movement. Teleport usually counts as moving (as in it changes your location). It counts as "entering an area", but I can't think of a time when it counts as "moving through, or within" an area.
Post: #570: Poster repeats their arguments that mere arrival counts as moving 5' since the person arrives in a 5' square.
Post #569: Poster thinks someone dancing within the area but otherwise stationary at their position should take damage.
No one is directly arguing that you must take the full movement, despite it being RAW but that does not make it a straw man, since I am not claiming that they are consciously doing any such thing. It is not a straw man to point out that if one takes damage for the last 5' of movement, it logically follows that one should take damage for the rest of the movement in the area too.
In the particular spell in question, all damage relates to distance moved. Yes you entered the area. My position is that you moved 0' through the area to do so. They have been arguing that you moved the last 5' though the area to do so. And one of them seems to be suggesting that if you do not stand perfectly still even in your own position, you'll still be considered to have 'moved' 5'.
If a creature is on the edge of a spike growth spell and only walks as far as 4ft into the growth, by your interpretation of the 5ft travel portion of the rule that creature would not take damage. And if a creature only travels 4ft per turn, could walk though the growth never taking a point of damage.
We both know that's BS. Teleporting into a Spike Growth should be no different then if you had simply walked 5ft or less into it.
You entered it by teleporting in for whatever reason, and should not be able to simply enter it and not get damaged by trying to exploit a portion of the spell that is intended for a creature that is already in the growth.
If a creature is on the edge of a spike growth spell and only walks as far as 4ft into the growth, by your interpretation of the 5ft travel portion of the rule that creature would not take damage. And if a creature only travels 4ft per turn, could walk though the growth never taking a point of damage.
We both know that's BS. Teleporting into a Spike Growth should be no different then if you had simply walked 5ft or less into it.
You entered it by teleporting in for whatever reason, and should not be able to simply enter it and not get damaged by trying to exploit a portion of the spell that is intended for a creature that is already in the growth.
As I pointed out before, the spell says 5 feet because that's the minimum possible movement on a standard grid, not because the spell does zero damage for four feet and 11 inches but then goes, "Ah-ha! Lured you in, sucker!" and suddenly activates on that 60th inch.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
If it did travel 0 square into the area, it did not enter it.
Again you keeping insisting a creature has to move through, if it was the case, it would have just said "when a creature moves within the area", but it instead says"when a creature moves into OR within the area"
Congrats to everyone who bet the over on 29.5 pages
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
The suggestion that teleporting, say 30 feet, into the spell’s area should do 2d4 x 6 damage is ridiculous, quite frankly. I think 28 pages has caused people to fall too deep into the detail of RAW and away from the safety of logic. If I were to teleport into a load of spikes, why would it hurt me more if I teleported in from 30 feet away than if I teleported in from a foot away? Come on.
Even in pointing out RAW, assuming that there is no exemption for teleporting, I have never said 'based on the full distance of the teleport,' nor has anyone else.
Keep in mind that I am arguing for 0 damage since, to me, you move 0' in. However, if someone is arguing that the arriving person has moved 5' within the area, technically they have moved the full distance from edge to arrival point, not merely 5'. If one insists that there is no exemption for teleporting, then there is no exemption for teleporting.
If there is an exemption for teleporting there is an exemption and no damage.
As you're probably aware though, no one on the opposing side of this argument is arguing this. It is clearly the case that there is a distinction between "moving" and "moving through", and the nonsensical idea that "if teleport is moving, then you take all the damage" is a straw man.
We keep returning to these nonsense arguments, when all that is needed is the recognition of different contexts for what counts as movement. Teleport usually counts as moving (as in it changes your location). It counts as "entering an area", but I can't think of a time when it counts as "moving through, or within" an area.
Post: #570: Poster repeats their arguments that mere arrival counts as moving 5' since the person arrives in a 5' square.
Post #569: Poster thinks someone dancing within the area but otherwise stationary at their position should take damage.
No one is directly arguing that you must take the full movement, despite it being RAW but that does not make it a straw man, since I am not claiming that they are consciously doing any such thing. It is not a straw man to point out that if one takes damage for the last 5' of movement, it logically follows that one should take damage for the rest of the movement in the area too.
In the particular spell in question, all damage relates to distance moved. Yes you entered the area. My position is that you moved 0' through the area to do so. They have been arguing that you moved the last 5' though the area to do so. And one of them seems to be suggesting that if you do not stand perfectly still even in your own position, you'll still be considered to have 'moved' 5'.
I stand corrected. I must have missed reading those posts. Apologies.
I don't know where I stand on calculating damage for Spike Growth exactly, but it would not include the full distance teleported regardless. That makes no sense whatsoever.
The suggestion that teleporting, say 30 feet, into the spell’s area should do 2d4 x 6 damage is ridiculous, quite frankly. I think 28 pages has caused people to fall too deep into the detail of RAW and away from the safety of logic. If I were to teleport into a load of spikes, why would it hurt me more if I teleported in from 30 feet away than if I teleported in from a foot away? Come on.
Even in pointing out RAW, assuming that there is no exemption for teleporting, I have never said 'based on the full distance of the teleport,' nor has anyone else.
Keep in mind that I am arguing for 0 damage since, to me, you move 0' in. However, if someone is arguing that the arriving person has moved 5' within the area, technically they have moved the full distance from edge to arrival point, not merely 5'. If one insists that there is no exemption for teleporting, then there is no exemption for teleporting.
If there is an exemption for teleporting there is an exemption and no damage.
As you're probably aware though, no one on the opposing side of this argument is arguing this. It is clearly the case that there is a distinction between "moving" and "moving through", and the nonsensical idea that "if teleport is moving, then you take all the damage" is a straw man.
We keep returning to these nonsense arguments, when all that is needed is the recognition of different contexts for what counts as movement. Teleport usually counts as moving (as in it changes your location). It counts as "entering an area", but I can't think of a time when it counts as "moving through, or within" an area.
Post: #570: Poster repeats their arguments that mere arrival counts as moving 5' since the person arrives in a 5' square.
Post #569: Poster thinks someone dancing within the area but otherwise stationary at their position should take damage.
No one is directly arguing that you must take the full movement, despite it being RAW but that does not make it a straw man, since I am not claiming that they are consciously doing any such thing. It is not a straw man to point out that if one takes damage for the last 5' of movement, it logically follows that one should take damage for the rest of the movement in the area too.
In the particular spell in question, all damage relates to distance moved. Yes you entered the area. My position is that you moved 0' through the area to do so. They have been arguing that you moved the last 5' though the area to do so. And one of them seems to be suggesting that if you do not stand perfectly still even in your own position, you'll still be considered to have 'moved' 5'.
I stand corrected. I must have missed reading those posts. Apologies.
I don't know where I stand on calculating damage for Spike Growth exactly, but it would not include the full distance teleported regardless. That makes no sense whatsoever.
I contend that calculating the damage of Spike Growth is based on distance traveled physically in the area. The triggers given (entering or moving within) are not triggers for damage, they are triggers to start counting distance traveled. that part is RAW, at least the way it is worded (damage is tied to distance, not the triggers). Teleporting, whether from outside in or from inside to inside, travels 0 feet physically inside the area. The RAI/logic is what distinguishes the fact that travel via physical means (walking in it, being pulled, into it or drug through it), and travel via non-physical means (teleporting, ethereal travel, maybe some others) should be treated differently.
Kotath conveniently left out that they were the one who brought up dancing from side to side all over a 5-foot square, which is not "stationary at their position" unless you believe in that magic 60th inch.
And no, I never suggested that you have to stand perfectly still to avoid damage from spike growth. Kotath never met an opinion they couldn't misstate and twist in an effort to try and Win the Internetz.
There is, shockingly enough, a wide range of options between 'stand perfectly still' and 'dancing around in that space as much as you want', and yes as a DM I would absolutely rule that some of the options down towards the 'dancing around like an idiot in Spike Growth' end of the spectrum would subject you to potential damage
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Kotath conveniently left out that they were the one who brought up dancing from side to side all over a 5-foot square, which is not "stationary at their position" unless you believe in that magic 60th inch.
And no, I never suggested that you have to stand perfectly still to avoid damage from spike growth. Kotath never met an opinion they couldn't misstate and twist in an effort to try and Win the Internetz.
There is, shockingly enough, a wide range of options between 'stand perfectly still' and 'dancing around in that space as much as you want', and yes as a DM I would absolutely rule that some of the options down towards the 'dancing around like an idiot in Spike Growth' end of the spectrum would subject you to potential damage
I'd say that's a perfectly acceptable application and I'd argue it isn't even a house rule to say this. Running around in a very tight circle (as in, inside a single grid square) is still moving within the area, and is still traveling, and the damage only cares about distance traveled, not squares moved. You could feasibly take (speed/5)x2d4 from doing this, without moving a single square on your turn, more if you dashed to keep dancing/running in a circle
Kotath conveniently left out that they were the one who brought up dancing from side to side all over a 5-foot square, which is not "stationary at their position" unless you believe in that magic 60th inch.
And no, I never suggested that you have to stand perfectly still to avoid damage from spike growth. Kotath never met an opinion they couldn't misstate and twist in an effort to try and Win the Internetz.
There is, shockingly enough, a wide range of options between 'stand perfectly still' and 'dancing around in that space as much as you want', and yes as a DM I would absolutely rule that some of the options down towards the 'dancing around like an idiot in Spike Growth' end of the spectrum would subject you to potential damage
I'd say that's a perfectly acceptable application and I'd argue it isn't even a house rule to say this. Running around in a very tight circle (as in, inside a single grid square) is still moving within the area, and is still traveling, and the damage only cares about distance traveled, not squares moved. You could feasibly take (speed/5)x2d4 from doing this, without moving a single square on your turn, more if you dashed to keep dancing/running in a circle
Now I am being misrepresented. When I talked about running in circles I was talking about outside the 5' square. Not sure how one would run in tight circles staying in a 5' square. I brought up running in circles in the 20' area to compare with the suggestion that moving so much as 1" in should still trigger the minimum damage.
I was not intending to; I was only responding to the post I quoted. If they misrepresented you, then that is on them. But 5' x 5' is a pretty big area compared to your average humanoid of PC size and proportion. It would be a tight circle, but it could be done (if only in a theoretical kind of way).
For movement within the 5' square, I used dancing in place and fighting as examples of movement in place within the square. The spell says nothing about forcing people to act immobilized or take damage. It is not an entangle spell with damage added.
This is true, and I can't think of a way that one would be able to track an amount of movement used by doing those things in game using RAW. It would be DM's call both on whether it counted, and how much it counts for, if anything.
Last I checked, you did not have to use movement to dance in place. Or to do anything in place. In place being defined as within your 5' square. Movement in that square is normally not tracked. Otherwise, just from breathing, 12 to 20 breaths per minute at rest, your chest movement would start to trigger it.
Technically (and forgive the pedantry), the damage is contingent of "travel", not "movement", but outside of grid play, it is possible to move in less than 5' increments. Inside of grid play, it is still possible to travel without using movement, in situations of being pulled, pushed, dragged, etc. but you would be right that it would be a rare case that an increment of less than 5' is used.
The suggestion is that even movement within the 5' square should count and that even so little as 1" should count.
It counts, but it doesn't trigger damage until the collective amount reaches 60" or 5'.
And this is being used as justification for arriving by teleport causing damage.
I'm not using it that way. Others might be but I'm not. Teleporting would not cause damage, because teleporting, while moving, is not moving through the area in question. People might be saying that entering a space counts for damage, and it would in other AoEs, but in this spell, the damage is not actually triggered on entering, it is triggered on completing 5 feet of travel. The only thing that triggers on entering is starting the count of travel distance.
I don't know where I stand on calculating damage for Spike Growth exactly, but it would not include the full distance teleported regardless. That makes no sense whatsoever.
I contend that calculating the damage of Spike Growth is based on distance traveled physically in the area. The triggers given (entering or moving within) are not triggers for damage, they are triggers to start counting distance traveled. that part is RAW, at least the way it is worded (damage is tied to distance, not the triggers). Teleporting, whether from outside in or from inside to inside, travels 0 feet physically inside the area. The RAI/logic is what distinguishes the fact that travel via physical means (walking in it, being pulled, into it or drug through it), and travel via non-physical means (teleporting, ethereal travel, maybe some others) should be treated differently.
Probably easiest to just follow what the text of the rules says. If an ability says it moves you, you have been moved. If it says you can move and you choose to do so, you have moved willingly. If it describes it in some other manner, then that isn't you moving.
I like how you're thinking here in the blue'd bit. 100% truth that teleporting is 0ft moved.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
If a creature is on the edge of a spike growth spell and only walks as far as 4ft into the growth, by your interpretation of the 5ft travel portion of the rule that creature would not take damage. And if a creature only travels 4ft per turn, could walk though the growth never taking a point of damage.
We both know that's BS. Teleporting into a Spike Growth should be no different then if you had simply walked 5ft or less into it.
You entered it by teleporting in for whatever reason, and should not be able to simply enter it and not get damaged by trying to exploit a portion of the spell that is intended for a creature that is already in the growth.
As I pointed out before, the spell says 5 feet because that's the minimum possible movement on a standard grid, not because the spell does zero damage for four feet and 11 inches but then goes, "Ah-ha! Lured you in, sucker!" and suddenly activates on that 60th inch.
"When a creature moves into or within the area, it takes 2d4 piercing damage for every 5 feet it travels."
Unless stated otherwise, in 5e you round down. If someone moves less than 5ft, that is less than 1(rounded down to 0) intervals of 5ft, times 2d4. Or, simply put: 0 piercing damage.
You can absolutely positively walk into the area of Spike Growth and stop at that first square and not take any damage whatsoever. You haven't yet moved 5 ft into or within the area. Its actually impossible for you to have moved 5ft within the area at that point since the square is 5ft, you'd need to cross that threshold to hit exactly 5ft ie move into the next square deep.
This is largely only true at the edges when entering or leaving, since the area isn't affecting half the area you're moving over. Since you are, by definition, already in the square, you can't cross the entire length of that square. Even if you had your heels ON the edge and dashed across it, you'd still have traveled less than 5ft, since you began within it, and it IS 5ft.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
You can absolutely positively walk into the area of Spike Growth and stop at that first square and not take any damage whatsoever.
Wrong. To enter a square, you must have have enough movement left to pay for entering it. So entering a square into a Spiked Growth's area is moving into it and count as 5 feet you travel. Walking speed 9 feet or less doesn't get you into it at all.
Entering a Square. To enter a square, you must have at least 1 square of movement left..If a square costs extra movement, as a square of difficult terrain does, you must have enough movement left to pay for entering it.
I don't know where I stand on calculating damage for Spike Growth exactly, but it would not include the full distance teleported regardless. That makes no sense whatsoever.
I contend that calculating the damage of Spike Growth is based on distance traveled physically in the area. The triggers given (entering or moving within) are not triggers for damage, they are triggers to start counting distance traveled. that part is RAW, at least the way it is worded (damage is tied to distance, not the triggers). Teleporting, whether from outside in or from inside to inside, travels 0 feet physically inside the area. The RAI/logic is what distinguishes the fact that travel via physical means (walking in it, being pulled, into it or drug through it), and travel via non-physical means (teleporting, ethereal travel, maybe some others) should be treated differently.
Probably easiest to just follow what the text of the rules says. If an ability says it moves you, you have been moved. If it says you can move and you choose to do so, you have moved willingly. If it describes it in some other manner, then that isn't you moving.
I like how you're thinking here in the blue'd bit. 100% truth that teleporting is 0ft moved.
That is not what I said; you have ignored all nuances of my actual words. Stop misconstruing my words to make your point, it is not a good look for you
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
If a creature is on the edge of a spike growth spell and only walks as far as 4ft into the growth, by your interpretation of the 5ft travel portion of the rule that creature would not take damage. And if a creature only travels 4ft per turn, could walk though the growth never taking a point of damage.
We both know that's BS. Teleporting into a Spike Growth should be no different then if you had simply walked 5ft or less into it.
You entered it by teleporting in for whatever reason, and should not be able to simply enter it and not get damaged by trying to exploit a portion of the spell that is intended for a creature that is already in the growth.
As I pointed out before, the spell says 5 feet because that's the minimum possible movement on a standard grid, not because the spell does zero damage for four feet and 11 inches but then goes, "Ah-ha! Lured you in, sucker!" and suddenly activates on that 60th inch.
"When a creature moves into or within the area, it takes 2d4 piercing damage for every 5 feet it travels."
Unless stated otherwise, in 5e you round down. If someone moves less than 5ft, that is less than 1(rounded down to 0) intervals of 5ft, times 2d4. Or, simply put: 0 piercing damage.
You can absolutely positively walk into the area of Spike Growth and stop at that first square and not take any damage whatsoever. You haven't yet moved 5 ft into or within the area. Its actually impossible for you to have moved 5ft within the area at that point since the square is 5ft, you'd need to cross that threshold to hit exactly 5ft ie move into the next square deep.
This is largely only true at the edges when entering or leaving, since the area isn't affecting half the area you're moving over. Since you are, by definition, already in the square, you can't cross the entire length of that square. Even if you had your heels ON the edge and dashed across it, you'd still have traveled less than 5ft, since you began within it, and it IS 5ft.
In theory yes but why would anyone bother to move just 1' in? Even if the DM cared to allow such precise movement?
Not even "in theory'. Why isn't it 1d4 damage for every two and a half feet of movement? Oh right, because 2.5 feet of movement isn't possible on a grid
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
You can absolutely positively walk into the area of Spike Growth and stop at that first square and not take any damage whatsoever.
Wrong. To enter a square, you must have have enough movement left to pay for entering it. So entering a square into a Spiked Growth's area is moving into it and count as 5 feet you travel. Walking speed 9 feet or less doesn't get you into it at all.
Entering a Square. To enter a square, you must have at least 1 square of movement left..If a square costs extra movement, as a square of difficult terrain does, you must have enough movement left to pay for entering it.
You have the right information but came to the wrong conclusion. Some amount of that movement is done in your current square. If any fraction of a fraction of an inch is done in your current square (roughly half of it would be) then you have moved less than 5 ft WITHIN the area of the spell.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
If a creature is on the edge of a spike growth spell and only walks as far as 4ft into the growth, by your interpretation of the 5ft travel portion of the rule that creature would not take damage. And if a creature only travels 4ft per turn, could walk though the growth never taking a point of damage.
We both know that's BS. Teleporting into a Spike Growth should be no different then if you had simply walked 5ft or less into it.
You entered it by teleporting in for whatever reason, and should not be able to simply enter it and not get damaged by trying to exploit a portion of the spell that is intended for a creature that is already in the growth.
As I pointed out before, the spell says 5 feet because that's the minimum possible movement on a standard grid, not because the spell does zero damage for four feet and 11 inches but then goes, "Ah-ha! Lured you in, sucker!" and suddenly activates on that 60th inch.
"When a creature moves into or within the area, it takes 2d4 piercing damage for every 5 feet it travels."
Unless stated otherwise, in 5e you round down. If someone moves less than 5ft, that is less than 1(rounded down to 0) intervals of 5ft, times 2d4. Or, simply put: 0 piercing damage.
You can absolutely positively walk into the area of Spike Growth and stop at that first square and not take any damage whatsoever. You haven't yet moved 5 ft into or within the area. Its actually impossible for you to have moved 5ft within the area at that point since the square is 5ft, you'd need to cross that threshold to hit exactly 5ft ie move into the next square deep.
This is largely only true at the edges when entering or leaving, since the area isn't affecting half the area you're moving over. Since you are, by definition, already in the square, you can't cross the entire length of that square. Even if you had your heels ON the edge and dashed across it, you'd still have traveled less than 5ft, since you began within it, and it IS 5ft.
In theory yes but why would anyone bother to move just 1' in? Even if the DM cared to allow such precise movement?
Not even "in theory'. Why isn't it 1d4 damage for every two and a half feet of movement? Oh right, because 2.5 feet of movement isn't possible on a grid
...
You move 5 ft. But only half of it is IN the area of the spell.
You're going from inside one square to into the next square. AN amount of that movement MUST be in your current starting square and some amount of it must be in the square you're entering.
Guys. C'mon.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
True! I hadn't thought of making the spell work like that. In that case, (at least how I would rule it), the warded space counts as only, let's say, the walls and threshold of the house, so if you were to cast Teleport inside of it, you never actually entered the warded space, so you would avoid the Alarm spell. If you walked through, then that would be a really clever use of the spell to ward a larger area though! And that is mostly how a level 1 spell is used anyways, so it would totally work.
As you're probably aware though, no one on the opposing side of this argument is arguing this.
It is clearly the case that there is a distinction between "moving" and "moving through", and the nonsensical idea that "if teleport is moving, then you take all the damage" is a straw man.
We keep returning to these nonsense arguments, when all that is needed is the recognition of different contexts for what counts as movement. Teleport usually counts as moving (as in it changes your location). It counts as "entering an area", but I can't think of a time when it counts as "moving through, or within" an area.
If a creature is on the edge of a spike growth spell and only walks as far as 4ft into the growth, by your interpretation of the 5ft travel portion of the rule that creature would not take damage. And if a creature only travels 4ft per turn, could walk though the growth never taking a point of damage.
We both know that's BS. Teleporting into a Spike Growth should be no different then if you had simply walked 5ft or less into it.
You entered it by teleporting in for whatever reason, and should not be able to simply enter it and not get damaged by trying to exploit a portion of the spell that is intended for a creature that is already in the growth.
As I pointed out before, the spell says 5 feet because that's the minimum possible movement on a standard grid, not because the spell does zero damage for four feet and 11 inches but then goes, "Ah-ha! Lured you in, sucker!" and suddenly activates on that 60th inch.
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Spike Growth does not deal damage when a creature moves into AND within the area, but when it does one OR the other. When teleporting;
1. Did it move into or within the area? Yes it moved into it.
2. How many 5 feet/square did it travel into? One.
If it did travel 0 square into the area, it did not enter it.
Again you keeping insisting a creature has to move through, if it was the case, it would have just said "when a creature moves within the area", but it instead says"when a creature moves into OR within the area"
Congrats to everyone who bet the over on 29.5 pages
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I stand corrected. I must have missed reading those posts. Apologies.
I don't know where I stand on calculating damage for Spike Growth exactly, but it would not include the full distance teleported regardless. That makes no sense whatsoever.
I contend that calculating the damage of Spike Growth is based on distance traveled physically in the area. The triggers given (entering or moving within) are not triggers for damage, they are triggers to start counting distance traveled. that part is RAW, at least the way it is worded (damage is tied to distance, not the triggers). Teleporting, whether from outside in or from inside to inside, travels 0 feet physically inside the area. The RAI/logic is what distinguishes the fact that travel via physical means (walking in it, being pulled, into it or drug through it), and travel via non-physical means (teleporting, ethereal travel, maybe some others) should be treated differently.
Kotath conveniently left out that they were the one who brought up dancing from side to side all over a 5-foot square, which is not "stationary at their position" unless you believe in that magic 60th inch.
And no, I never suggested that you have to stand perfectly still to avoid damage from spike growth. Kotath never met an opinion they couldn't misstate and twist in an effort to try and Win the Internetz.
There is, shockingly enough, a wide range of options between 'stand perfectly still' and 'dancing around in that space as much as you want', and yes as a DM I would absolutely rule that some of the options down towards the 'dancing around like an idiot in Spike Growth' end of the spectrum would subject you to potential damage
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I'd say that's a perfectly acceptable application and I'd argue it isn't even a house rule to say this. Running around in a very tight circle (as in, inside a single grid square) is still moving within the area, and is still traveling, and the damage only cares about distance traveled, not squares moved. You could feasibly take (speed/5)x2d4 from doing this, without moving a single square on your turn, more if you dashed to keep dancing/running in a circle
I was not intending to; I was only responding to the post I quoted. If they misrepresented you, then that is on them. But 5' x 5' is a pretty big area compared to your average humanoid of PC size and proportion. It would be a tight circle, but it could be done (if only in a theoretical kind of way).
This is true, and I can't think of a way that one would be able to track an amount of movement used by doing those things in game using RAW. It would be DM's call both on whether it counted, and how much it counts for, if anything.
Technically (and forgive the pedantry), the damage is contingent of "travel", not "movement", but outside of grid play, it is possible to move in less than 5' increments. Inside of grid play, it is still possible to travel without using movement, in situations of being pulled, pushed, dragged, etc. but you would be right that it would be a rare case that an increment of less than 5' is used.
It counts, but it doesn't trigger damage until the collective amount reaches 60" or 5'.
I'm not using it that way. Others might be but I'm not. Teleporting would not cause damage, because teleporting, while moving, is not moving through the area in question. People might be saying that entering a space counts for damage, and it would in other AoEs, but in this spell, the damage is not actually triggered on entering, it is triggered on completing 5 feet of travel. The only thing that triggers on entering is starting the count of travel distance.
Probably easiest to just follow what the text of the rules says. If an ability says it moves you, you have been moved. If it says you can move and you choose to do so, you have moved willingly. If it describes it in some other manner, then that isn't you moving.
I like how you're thinking here in the blue'd bit. 100% truth that teleporting is 0ft moved.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
"When a creature moves into or within the area, it takes 2d4 piercing damage for every 5 feet it travels."
Unless stated otherwise, in 5e you round down. If someone moves less than 5ft, that is less than 1(rounded down to 0) intervals of 5ft, times 2d4. Or, simply put: 0 piercing damage.
You can absolutely positively walk into the area of Spike Growth and stop at that first square and not take any damage whatsoever. You haven't yet moved 5 ft into or within the area. Its actually impossible for you to have moved 5ft within the area at that point since the square is 5ft, you'd need to cross that threshold to hit exactly 5ft ie move into the next square deep.
This is largely only true at the edges when entering or leaving, since the area isn't affecting half the area you're moving over. Since you are, by definition, already in the square, you can't cross the entire length of that square. Even if you had your heels ON the edge and dashed across it, you'd still have traveled less than 5ft, since you began within it, and it IS 5ft.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Wrong. To enter a square, you must have have enough movement left to pay for entering it. So entering a square into a Spiked Growth's area is moving into it and count as 5 feet you travel. Walking speed 9 feet or less doesn't get you into it at all.
Entering a Square. To enter a square, you must have at least 1 square of movement left..If a square costs extra movement, as a square of difficult terrain does, you must have enough movement left to pay for entering it.
That is not what I said; you have ignored all nuances of my actual words. Stop misconstruing my words to make your point, it is not a good look for you
Oh. We're back to this again, are we
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Not even "in theory'. Why isn't it 1d4 damage for every two and a half feet of movement? Oh right, because 2.5 feet of movement isn't possible on a grid
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
You have the right information but came to the wrong conclusion. Some amount of that movement is done in your current square. If any fraction of a fraction of an inch is done in your current square (roughly half of it would be) then you have moved less than 5 ft WITHIN the area of the spell.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
...
You move 5 ft. But only half of it is IN the area of the spell.
You're going from inside one square to into the next square. AN amount of that movement MUST be in your current starting square and some amount of it must be in the square you're entering.
Guys. C'mon.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.