When something "appears" somewhere... As they do when summoned/conjured/plane-shifted/teleported/or even materialized from nothing in an act of creation... "Appearing" isn't a type of movement, it isn't moving. And all these threads spawned because some people refuse to accept that.
Edit: The word you're looking for, by the way, is Conjuration. Plane Shifting is conjuration, summoning... Conjuration. Teleportation? Conjuration. They're all Conjuration. (With a few exceptions, for reasons) If you teleport yourself 30ft away you've conjured yourself into the new space. It is the same type of magic as summoning a creature, you conjure something from elsewhere to you. Just a different application of the same process. Conjuring.
Conjuration spells involve the transportation of objects and creatures from one location to another. Some spells summon creatures or objects to the caster's side, whereas others allow the caster to teleport to another location. Some conjurations create objects or effects out of nothing.
But the words "Appears" and "Appearing" have numerous defined meanings. One such defined meaning is "to arrive". In the context of teleportation, common sense would gravitate toward the "to arrive" definition rather than the "to start to exist or become available" or "to seem" definitions.
Context matters, and even fluff text may hold meaning to the context of rules as written.
When something "appears" somewhere... As they do when summoned/conjured/plane-shifted/teleported/or even materialized from nothing in an act of creation... "Appearing" isn't a type of movement, it isn't moving. And all these threads spawned because some people refuse to accept that.
Edit: The word you're looking for, by the way, is Conjuration. Plane Shifting is conjuration, summoning... Conjuration. Teleportation? Conjuration. They're all Conjuration. (With a few exceptions, for reasons) If you teleport yourself 30ft away you've conjured yourself into the new space. It is the same type of magic as summoning a creature, you conjure something from elsewhere to you. Just a different application of the same process. Conjuring.
Conjuration spells involve the transportation of objects and creatures from one location to another. Some spells summon creatures or objects to the caster's side, whereas others allow the caster to teleport to another location. Some conjurations create objects or effects out of nothing.
But the words "Appears" and "Appearing" have numerous defined meanings. One such defined meaning is "to arrive". In the context of teleportation, common sense would gravitate toward the "to arrive" definition rather than the "to start to exist or become available" or "to seem" definitions.
Context matters, and even fluff text may hold meaning to the context of rules as written.
The context is that most conjuration effects share similar phrasing. I'll stick with that, the context provided by the rules.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Similarly, i don't consider getting into or from the extradimensional space of a portable hole or bag of holding as teleporting in itself even if you vanish in or appear out of it. I'd say its more akin to plane shifting.
With an op attack, it doesn't specify the teleportation spell just teleport as a verb which would be "transport or be transported across space and distance instantly." Meaning thunderstep, misty step, plane shift, teleport, etc. would all not get an op attack unless they have mage slayer.
I come from an era where the planes weren't particularly understandable in our concepts of reality, and the reason it took extremely powerful magic to get there was because it had to essentially pass you through a filter and convert you into some sort of compatible entity to your destination (that's what the tuning fork is for). The outer planes realms of the soul, virtue, ethic, morality itself, and inner planes realms of the mind, idea, thought, and knowledge.
The Outer Planes are the realms of the gods, their servants, and souls. You character isn't a soul, though they do have one. If they die that bad boy eventually makes it way to the outer realms. But, you can't normally interact with souls... but somehow in the outer planes things made of souls are real here, solid... how is that?
Well, the real answer is they're not. You've just been frazzled into a compatible entity when you plane shifted. You can't tell the difference, but now all of sudden you're interacting with pure soul-stuff like it is real stuff, made solid. Creatures roaming this place are made of souls. Yet here you are talking with them, fighting with them.
Similar to the inner planes. These are places of the mind, places of pure thought and concept. You're frazzled into a similar entity when you go there. You get converted into a concept-entity too. Now you interact with one another as if you're both real flesh and blood. Or, at least living element.
So, in this old school way of thinking, Plane Shifting and Teleportation are nothing alike. mechanically going to the other planes seems as simple as going to a new land, but, at least narrative-wise, those places don't exist in any physical sense, and you were instead converted into something more compatible to exist within and experience them.
That, ultimately, is why I say No to this question. My whole concept of what/where the planes are is probably different from the younger/newer D&D folks. They haven't really explored these concepts in anything remotely recent. Minor hints at it from time to time, but simpler to just treat these planes as places instead of non-physical states of being.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Heh. I remember those days. Planar Travel was really weird back then.
IIRC, wasn't there a time you could only get to the outer planes through Astral Projection, and so all the time you were in Asgard you had this long silver cord out of your back? (AD&D maybe?)
And if it got severed, you died in the real world.
Fun times.
So is plane shifting teleport? Maybe. Maybe not. I don't think they have to be. They do share some features, and I think it's up to the game table if there's some mystical magical relationship between the two. But mechanically I don't see the rules having a strong enough opinion on it.
Back to 5e, now...I found an interesting parallel in the rules:
teleport is a teleportation spell. that spell describes the effect as "instantly transported." Gate is a plane shift spell. It also describes the effect as "instantly transported" Given that the writers chose to use similar language to describe each effect, is it not reasonable to assume that the two are related enough to follow the rules set for one? (at least in 5e)
If a rule cares about you being instantly transported somewhere, yes, both spells would fit the bill. I'd argue that's what the common usage of "teleporting" means, and that's why I believe instant planar travel counts as teleporting for the purposes of the opportunity attack rules. But you shouldn't extrapolate anything about Teleport based on Gate or vice-versa.
If a rule cares about you being instantly transported somewhere, yes, both spells would fit the bill. I'd argue that's what the common usage of "teleporting" means, and that's why I believe instant planar travel counts as teleporting for the purposes of the opportunity attack rules. But you shouldn't extrapolate anything about Teleport based on Gate or vice-versa.
Of course not, but it is an interesting parallel that gives insight into what the writers think teleporting and plane-shifting are, and that insight is potentially useful in adjudicating the interaction you stated and I've bolded above.
Back to 5e, now...I found an interesting parallel in the rules:
teleport is a teleportation spell. that spell describes the effect as "instantly transported." Gate is a plane shift spell. It also describes the effect as "instantly transported" Given that the writers chose to use similar language to describe each effect, is it not reasonable to assume that the two are related enough to follow the rules set for one? (at least in 5e)
No, both spells describing effects that instantaniously transport something does not mean they both follow a rule that specifically calls one of them out. If the effect had stated "magic such as teleportation" instead of specifically calling out teleportation as the sole exception, then I'd be more inclined to have that rule work similarly for both (like the move-while-prone rule does).
Edit: I'm not trying to say it is completely unreasonable to assume as you do, but I simply don't believe that 2 similar words in 2 specific spells (and far from all in the category) is enough to make a specific rule more general.
Back to 5e, now...I found an interesting parallel in the rules:
teleport is a teleportation spell. that spell describes the effect as "instantly transported." Gate is a plane shift spell. It also describes the effect as "instantly transported" Given that the writers chose to use similar language to describe each effect, is it not reasonable to assume that the two are related enough to follow the rules set for one? (at least in 5e)
No, both spells describing effects that instantaniously transport something does not mean they both follow a rule that specifically calls one of them out. If the effect had stated "magic such as teleportation" instead of specifically calling out teleportation as the sole exception, then I'd be more inclined to have that rule work similarly for both (like the move-while-prone rule does).
I personally don't think that the writers are so fastidious in their use of language that they would not consider plane-shifting a type of teleportation, but your interpretation is of course a valid route to take. I won't, because I don't think they make the distinction strong enough and the logic of the situation should consider both to be applicable given that they work the same way per description, but you do you. Basically, you are arguing for RAW, and I'm arguing more RAI (at least as I can glean from the RAW)
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But the words "Appears" and "Appearing" have numerous defined meanings. One such defined meaning is "to arrive". In the context of teleportation, common sense would gravitate toward the "to arrive" definition rather than the "to start to exist or become available" or "to seem" definitions.
Context matters, and even fluff text may hold meaning to the context of rules as written.
The context is that most conjuration effects share similar phrasing. I'll stick with that, the context provided by the rules.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Similarly, i don't consider getting into or from the extradimensional space of a portable hole or bag of holding as teleporting in itself even if you vanish in or appear out of it. I'd say its more akin to plane shifting.
With an op attack, it doesn't specify the teleportation spell just teleport as a verb which would be "transport or be transported across space and distance instantly." Meaning thunderstep, misty step, plane shift, teleport, etc. would all not get an op attack unless they have mage slayer.
I come from an era where the planes weren't particularly understandable in our concepts of reality, and the reason it took extremely powerful magic to get there was because it had to essentially pass you through a filter and convert you into some sort of compatible entity to your destination (that's what the tuning fork is for). The outer planes realms of the soul, virtue, ethic, morality itself, and inner planes realms of the mind, idea, thought, and knowledge.
The Outer Planes are the realms of the gods, their servants, and souls. You character isn't a soul, though they do have one. If they die that bad boy eventually makes it way to the outer realms. But, you can't normally interact with souls... but somehow in the outer planes things made of souls are real here, solid... how is that?
Well, the real answer is they're not. You've just been frazzled into a compatible entity when you plane shifted. You can't tell the difference, but now all of sudden you're interacting with pure soul-stuff like it is real stuff, made solid. Creatures roaming this place are made of souls. Yet here you are talking with them, fighting with them.
Similar to the inner planes. These are places of the mind, places of pure thought and concept. You're frazzled into a similar entity when you go there. You get converted into a concept-entity too. Now you interact with one another as if you're both real flesh and blood. Or, at least living element.
So, in this old school way of thinking, Plane Shifting and Teleportation are nothing alike. mechanically going to the other planes seems as simple as going to a new land, but, at least narrative-wise, those places don't exist in any physical sense, and you were instead converted into something more compatible to exist within and experience them.
That, ultimately, is why I say No to this question. My whole concept of what/where the planes are is probably different from the younger/newer D&D folks. They haven't really explored these concepts in anything remotely recent. Minor hints at it from time to time, but simpler to just treat these planes as places instead of non-physical states of being.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Heh. I remember those days. Planar Travel was really weird back then.
IIRC, wasn't there a time you could only get to the outer planes through Astral Projection, and so all the time you were in Asgard you had this long silver cord out of your back? (AD&D maybe?)
And if it got severed, you died in the real world.
Fun times.
So is plane shifting teleport? Maybe. Maybe not. I don't think they have to be. They do share some features, and I think it's up to the game table if there's some mystical magical relationship between the two. But mechanically I don't see the rules having a strong enough opinion on it.
But they both move you somewhere else <wink>
Back to 5e, now...I found an interesting parallel in the rules:
teleport is a teleportation spell. that spell describes the effect as "instantly transported." Gate is a plane shift spell. It also describes the effect as "instantly transported" Given that the writers chose to use similar language to describe each effect, is it not reasonable to assume that the two are related enough to follow the rules set for one? (at least in 5e)
If a rule cares about you being instantly transported somewhere, yes, both spells would fit the bill. I'd argue that's what the common usage of "teleporting" means, and that's why I believe instant planar travel counts as teleporting for the purposes of the opportunity attack rules. But you shouldn't extrapolate anything about Teleport based on Gate or vice-versa.
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Of course not, but it is an interesting parallel that gives insight into what the writers think teleporting and plane-shifting are, and that insight is potentially useful in adjudicating the interaction you stated and I've bolded above.
No, both spells describing effects that instantaniously transport something does not mean they both follow a rule that specifically calls one of them out. If the effect had stated "magic such as teleportation" instead of specifically calling out teleportation as the sole exception, then I'd be more inclined to have that rule work similarly for both (like the move-while-prone rule does).
Edit: I'm not trying to say it is completely unreasonable to assume as you do, but I simply don't believe that 2 similar words in 2 specific spells (and far from all in the category) is enough to make a specific rule more general.
I personally don't think that the writers are so fastidious in their use of language that they would not consider plane-shifting a type of teleportation, but your interpretation is of course a valid route to take. I won't, because I don't think they make the distinction strong enough and the logic of the situation should consider both to be applicable given that they work the same way per description, but you do you. Basically, you are arguing for RAW, and I'm arguing more RAI (at least as I can glean from the RAW)