Trying to find the benefit to grapple, all i see is speed becomes 0. Seems more popular than that benefit alone suggests, shove does not require grapple to knock prone, restrained takes a feat or a spell and the feat gives you disadvantage while you are doing it.
Would make more sense if it gave you advantage on shove or automatically interrupts/prevents casting, breaks concentration, prevents use an item, reduces opponents dex modified AC, etc.
I see opponent can still take whatever action they want except move. Did I misinterpret something?
If my AC21 Eldritch Knight who can cast Shield grapples a powerful boss monster, then that monster has to choose: does it use its entire action to break the grapple (making 0 attacks this turn), or does it attack into a potentially AC26 character. Even with +10 to hit, the monster needs to be rolling 16s or above, giving it just a 20% chance of landing an attack. If it can move, instead it might just run up to hit the squishy wizard instead. What if the grappling character is a raging barbarian? Contest the grapple and lose an action, or know that 50% of your damage is going to be nullified by resistance due to Raging.
What if keeping the enemy in the grapple means that they stay inside an area effect?
What if they are a squishy caster type, and standing next to a melee fighter who has Extra Attacks is a really bad idea?
Trying to find the benefit to grapple, all i see is speed becomes 0. Seems more popular than that benefit alone suggests, shove does not require grapple to knock prone, restrained takes a feat or a spell and the feat gives you disadvantage while you are doing it.
Would make more sense if it gave you advantage on shove or automatically interrupts/prevents casting, breaks concentration, prevents use an item, reduces opponents dex modified AC, etc.
I see opponent can still take whatever action they want except move. Did I misinterpret something?
Grapple is excellent as an addition to shove, because a target that is both grappled and prone can't stand up from prone - it has to escape the grapple in order to do so. The other big use-case for grapple is for flying creatures, or situationally, climbing or swimming creatures, because you can drag a grappled target with you. A flyer or climber can take the enemy up and then drop them; a swimmer can take the enemy down to drown them.
That said, restrained is better than grappled, if you can inflict it. The problem with leaning into nets is that the feats that make them better are Sharpshooter, Crossbow Expert, and Gunner - all of which grant other benefits that don't apply to nets. The feat for restraining targets you grapple is widely considered one of the worst in the game, if not the worst, because in order to restrain your target you have to restrain yourself.
In any other context, restrained is one of the best conditions you can inflict - e.g. if you can cast a spell that inflicts restrained, it will generally be considered one of the better spells you can take.
Trying to find the benefit to grapple, all i see is speed becomes 0. Seems more popular than that benefit alone suggests, shove does not require grapple to knock prone, restrained takes a feat or a spell and the feat gives you disadvantage while you are doing it.
Would make more sense if it gave you advantage on shove or automatically interrupts/prevents casting, breaks concentration, prevents use an item, reduces opponents dex modified AC, etc.
I see opponent can still take whatever action they want except move. Did I misinterpret something?
Grapple is excellent as an addition to shove, because a target that is both grappled and prone can't stand up from prone - it has to escape the grapple in order to do so. The other big use-case for grapple is for flying creatures, or situationally, climbing or swimming creatures, because you can drag a grappled target with you. A flyer or climber can take the enemy up and then drop them; a swimmer can take the enemy down to drown them.
That said, restrained is better than grappled, if you can inflict it. The problem with leaning into nets is that the feats that make them better are Sharpshooter, Crossbow Expert, and Gunner - all of which grant other benefits that don't apply to nets. The feat for restraining targets you grapple is widely considered one of the worst in the game, if not the worst, because in order to restrain your target you have to restrain yourself.
In any other context, restrained is one of the best conditions you can inflict - e.g. if you can cast a spell that inflicts restrained, it will generally be considered one of the better spells you can take.
I keep seeing that, about being grappled and prone, but is it actually true?
If you're affected by freedom of movement, you can spend 5 feet of your movement to escape a grapple even though your speed is 0. Yes, this is a spell which may specifically override a more general rule. It also implies that speed and movement are two separate things by drawing a distinction between the two. Meaning, for example, a grappled Echo Knight could still teleport, swapping places with their manifested echo, by spending 15 feet of movement even if their speed is 0 because they're grappled.
And, functionally, there is no net difference between a prone character first escaping a grapple before standing and moving away or standing first before breaking and moving away. They still end their turn half the same distance away from where they began. This implies the order of operations doesn't matter.
Been reading sage advice, Grappled reduces move to 0, standing requires a portion of your movement, so grappled while prone means you can not stand up without breaking grapple. (You could load and aim and fire a crossbow… at a disadvantage) I still picture grapple as something Ric Flair would do to the opponent, it should at least give disadvantage on actions, major penalty to 2 handed actions, interfere with concentration.
you can grapple, jerk them around 15’ round, lift them over your head and pile drive them into the dungeon floor…. They make a concentration check when they take damage from the impact only?
Holler at me Mr. Crawford, I will assist in development of expanded wrestling rules for 5.5
If you're affected by freedom of movement, you can spend 5 feet of your movement to escape a grapple even though your speed is 0.
We're talking about the requirement to stand up, not the requirement to break a grapple - being grappled stops you from standing up. How you stop being grappled is a separate discussion.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Trying to find the benefit to grapple, all i see is speed becomes 0. Seems more popular than that benefit alone suggests, shove does not require grapple to knock prone, restrained takes a feat or a spell and the feat gives you disadvantage while you are doing it.
Would make more sense if it gave you advantage on shove or automatically interrupts/prevents casting, breaks concentration, prevents use an item, reduces opponents dex modified AC, etc.
I see opponent can still take whatever action they want except move. Did I misinterpret something?
Being unable to move is a huge deal.
If my AC21 Eldritch Knight who can cast Shield grapples a powerful boss monster, then that monster has to choose: does it use its entire action to break the grapple (making 0 attacks this turn), or does it attack into a potentially AC26 character. Even with +10 to hit, the monster needs to be rolling 16s or above, giving it just a 20% chance of landing an attack. If it can move, instead it might just run up to hit the squishy wizard instead. What if the grappling character is a raging barbarian? Contest the grapple and lose an action, or know that 50% of your damage is going to be nullified by resistance due to Raging.
What if keeping the enemy in the grapple means that they stay inside an area effect?
What if they are a squishy caster type, and standing next to a melee fighter who has Extra Attacks is a really bad idea?
Grapple is excellent as an addition to shove, because a target that is both grappled and prone can't stand up from prone - it has to escape the grapple in order to do so. The other big use-case for grapple is for flying creatures, or situationally, climbing or swimming creatures, because you can drag a grappled target with you. A flyer or climber can take the enemy up and then drop them; a swimmer can take the enemy down to drown them.
That said, restrained is better than grappled, if you can inflict it. The problem with leaning into nets is that the feats that make them better are Sharpshooter, Crossbow Expert, and Gunner - all of which grant other benefits that don't apply to nets. The feat for restraining targets you grapple is widely considered one of the worst in the game, if not the worst, because in order to restrain your target you have to restrain yourself.
In any other context, restrained is one of the best conditions you can inflict - e.g. if you can cast a spell that inflicts restrained, it will generally be considered one of the better spells you can take.
I keep seeing that, about being grappled and prone, but is it actually true?
If you're affected by freedom of movement, you can spend 5 feet of your movement to escape a grapple even though your speed is 0. Yes, this is a spell which may specifically override a more general rule. It also implies that speed and movement are two separate things by drawing a distinction between the two. Meaning, for example, a grappled Echo Knight could still teleport, swapping places with their manifested echo, by spending 15 feet of movement even if their speed is 0 because they're grappled.
And, functionally, there is no net difference between a prone character first escaping a grapple before standing and moving away or standing first before breaking and moving away. They still end their turn half the same distance away from where they began. This implies the order of operations doesn't matter.
Been reading sage advice, Grappled reduces move to 0, standing requires a portion of your movement, so grappled while prone means you can not stand up without breaking grapple. (You could load and aim and fire a crossbow… at a disadvantage) I still picture grapple as something Ric Flair would do to the opponent, it should at least give disadvantage on actions, major penalty to 2 handed actions, interfere with concentration.
you can grapple, jerk them around 15’ round, lift them over your head and pile drive them into the dungeon floor…. They make a concentration check when they take damage from the impact only?
Holler at me Mr. Crawford, I will assist in development of expanded wrestling rules for 5.5
Thanks, I definitely see the situational benefits. Read a thread on grappler build and thought there was something i missed regarding advantage
You can't stand up if your speed is 0.
Grappled sets your speed to 0.
We're talking about the requirement to stand up, not the requirement to break a grapple - being grappled stops you from standing up. How you stop being grappled is a separate discussion.