Like the title states my question is, is it possible to nest the find familiar spell on itself?
This is the full idea;
First, 2 levels in Artificer for Item Infusion choosing to Replicate Magic Item and choosing the common item Spellwrought Tattoo 1st level containing the Find Familiar spell x4.
You now have four needles a day to Find Familiars.
Next, 3 levels in Warlock for Pact of the Chain. The idea behind this was I could summon my own familiar as a ritual probably an Imp for the relatively high intelligence as a commander of sorts
Lastly, use all your 1st level Spellwrought Tattoos on your familiar, your familiars' familiar, and so on, until you have an army of familiars at your disposal.
Does this work how I'm thinking? Is this a legit and legal combo? Is there a requirement to cast the find familiar spell from the spellwrought tattoo; or can even a familiar do it? Does a creature need an INT score or something?
I was hoping to have a traveling familiar pet shop service if you will, and with every pet I'm able to adopt out, my secret spy network grows.
Is it possible?
Bonus. Can you train your familiars introducing them to your dark patron using the rules from DMG to add levels to monsters, train them to 3rd level warlock for the eldritch invocation, voice of the chain master to have a familiar spy network around the world with the ability to relay all that juicy gossip back to you anywhere in the world, at least on this plane.
Each familiar is owned by the previous familiar, not you. You only get direct control over one of them, for the rest you have to send an order down the chain for any of them to do anything. And, you only get the special benefits your familiar conveys from your (singular) familiar. No casting spells or using the senses through the 45th familiar down the line.
That means if your familiar dies, your don’t have any control over the others until you resummon yours, and if another link breaks in the chain, you have to send an order down again.
And finally, wIthout at least a bit of DM buy-in, or there could be some reasonable pushback limiting the usefulness anyway. Usually speaking short utterances on your turn is fine to issue a command, but if you’re playing a game of telephone on your turn of anything more than a few stages, then a DM might rule that your command only makes it down the ladder a few rungs each round. And you have to be creative with your commands, because it would have to make your familiar do whatever you want and send the command down the chain.
Some DMs will also not allow Spellwrought Tattoos as valid items for Replicate Magic Item, since it is a consumable magic item - and the Replicate Magic Item doesn't allow the other two types of consumable items (scrolls and potions) to be used (and spellwrought tattoos came out AFTER artificer was published).
Each successive familiar is supposed to be casting the spell, correct? Otherwise you run into the issue of find familiar not allowing for multiple active castings. But the spellwrought tattoo only grants the ability to use the spell, and removes the need for material components. It doesn't remove the need for the verbal and somatic components, which a familiar might not be able to perform. Plus the description for the tattoo says 'you hold the needle against your skin and speak the command word.' That's another time that speaking is required, as some DMs might argue that it has to be self-applied. So the imp might be able to do it, since they can speak languages per their stat block, but that might be it.
Some DMs will also not allow Spellwrought Tattoos as valid items for Replicate Magic Item, since it is a consumable magic item - and the Replicate Magic Item doesn't allow the other two types of consumable items (scrolls and potions) to be used (and spellwrought tattoos came out AFTER artificer was published).
Replicate magic item does not exclude consumable magic items (of which there are more than tattoos). And spellwrought tattoos were published in the SAME BOOK as Artificer (reprint) and nothing was changed to exclude them then.
Each successive familiar is supposed to be casting the spell, correct? Otherwise you run into the issue of find familiar not allowing for multiple active castings. But the spellwrought tattoo only grants the ability to use the spell, and removes the need for material components. It doesn't remove the need for the verbal and somatic components, which a familiar might not be able to perform. Plus the description for the tattoo says 'you hold the needle against your skin and speak the command word.' That's another time that speaking is required, as some DMs might argue that it has to be self-applied. So the imp might be able to do it, since they can speak languages per their stat block, but that might be it.
This is a good point, the familiar must be capable of speech to use the tattoo. No problem for the imp from pact of the chain.
Maybe the DM would allow raven familiars to mimic the command word?
Some DMs will also not allow Spellwrought Tattoos as valid items for Replicate Magic Item, since it is a consumable magic item - and the Replicate Magic Item doesn't allow the other two types of consumable items (scrolls and potions) to be used (and spellwrought tattoos came out AFTER artificer was published).
Replicate magic item does not exclude consumable magic items (of which there are more than tattoos). And spellwrought tattoos were published in the SAME BOOK as Artificer (reprint) and nothing was changed to exclude them then.
Scrolls and Potions are excluded, and both are consumable magic items. This is why there could be an inference that spellwrought tattoos would be included in that list.
Some DMs will also not allow Spellwrought Tattoos as valid items for Replicate Magic Item, since it is a consumable magic item - and the Replicate Magic Item doesn't allow the other two types of consumable items (scrolls and potions) to be used (and spellwrought tattoos came out AFTER artificer was published).
Replicate magic item does not exclude consumable magic items (of which there are more than tattoos). And spellwrought tattoos were published in the SAME BOOK as Artificer (reprint) and nothing was changed to exclude them then.
Scrolls and Potions are excluded, and both are consumable magic items. This is why there could be an inference that spellwrought tattoos would be included in that list.
Non-scroll/potion common magic items printed before or at the same time as Artificer:
Some DMs will also not allow Spellwrought Tattoos as valid items for Replicate Magic Item, since it is a consumable magic item - and the Replicate Magic Item doesn't allow the other two types of consumable items (scrolls and potions) to be used (and spellwrought tattoos came out AFTER artificer was published).
Replicate magic item does not exclude consumable magic items (of which there are more than tattoos). And spellwrought tattoos were published in the SAME BOOK as Artificer (reprint) and nothing was changed to exclude them then.
Each successive familiar is supposed to be casting the spell, correct? Otherwise you run into the issue of find familiar not allowing for multiple active castings. But the spellwrought tattoo only grants the ability to use the spell, and removes the need for material components. It doesn't remove the need for the verbal and somatic components, which a familiar might not be able to perform. Plus the description for the tattoo says 'you hold the needle against your skin and speak the command word.' That's another time that speaking is required, as some DMs might argue that it has to be self-applied. So the imp might be able to do it, since they can speak languages per their stat block, but that might be it.
This is a good point, the familiar must be capable of speech to use the tattoo. No problem for the imp from pact of the chain.
Maybe the DM would allow raven familiars to mimic the command word?
Not relevant. Casting a spell from a magic item doesn't require any components.
"The spell is cast at the lowest possible spell and caster level, doesn’t expend any of the user’s spell slots, and requires no components unless the item’s description says otherwise. "
The item spellwrought tatto doesn't say you need to provide verbal or somatic components, just clarifies that no material components are required.
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Each successive familiar is supposed to be casting the spell, correct? Otherwise you run into the issue of find familiar not allowing for multiple active castings. But the spellwrought tattoo only grants the ability to use the spell, and removes the need for material components. It doesn't remove the need for the verbal and somatic components, which a familiar might not be able to perform. Plus the description for the tattoo says 'you hold the needle against your skin and speak the command word.' That's another time that speaking is required, as some DMs might argue that it has to be self-applied. So the imp might be able to do it, since they can speak languages per their stat block, but that might be it.
This is a good point, the familiar must be capable of speech to use the tattoo. No problem for the imp from pact of the chain.
Maybe the DM would allow raven familiars to mimic the command word?
Not relevant. Casting a spell from a magic item doesn't require any components.
"The spell is cast at the lowest possible spell and caster level, doesn’t expend any of the user’s spell slots, and requires no components unless the item’s description says otherwise. "
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Some DMs will also not allow Spellwrought Tattoos as valid items for Replicate Magic Item, since it is a consumable magic item - and the Replicate Magic Item doesn't allow the other two types of consumable items (scrolls and potions) to be used (and spellwrought tattoos came out AFTER artificer was published).
What do you mean? A tattoo isn't a consumable item, wearing it is a form of attunement, and as stated by the rules for every magic tattoo, the needle drops to the floor after the attunement ends. I do get why this seems like a consumable item though.
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Hollow unbreakable arrows are the most OP common magic item, and my current method of coming up with insane combat shenanigans.
if you make a steel pipe with one end closed and a nozzle on the other, you can enlarge it, fill with any liquid, and then drop concentration, creating a high pressure squirt gun. (or a pipe bomb, depending if it holds)
Some DMs will also not allow Spellwrought Tattoos as valid items for Replicate Magic Item, since it is a consumable magic item - and the Replicate Magic Item doesn't allow the other two types of consumable items (scrolls and potions) to be used (and spellwrought tattoos came out AFTER artificer was published).
What do you mean? A tattoo isn't a consumable item, wearing it is a form of attunement, and as stated by the rules for every magic tattoo, the needle drops to the floor after the attunement ends. I do get why this seems like a consumable item though.
Because of the line "The tattoo glows faintly while you cast the spell and for the spell’s duration. Once the spell ends, the tattoo vanishes from your skin."
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Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Some DMs will also not allow Spellwrought Tattoos as valid items for Replicate Magic Item, since it is a consumable magic item - and the Replicate Magic Item doesn't allow the other two types of consumable items (scrolls and potions) to be used (and spellwrought tattoos came out AFTER artificer was published).
Replicate magic item does not exclude consumable magic items (of which there are more than tattoos). And spellwrought tattoos were published in the SAME BOOK as Artificer (reprint) and nothing was changed to exclude them then.
I beg to differ.
The wording of Infuse Item includes "The magic items you create with this feature are effectively prototypes of permanent items."
Anything that is temporary, such as potions, scrolls and these tattoos, are not really permanent items.
Some DMs will also not allow Spellwrought Tattoos as valid items for Replicate Magic Item, since it is a consumable magic item - and the Replicate Magic Item doesn't allow the other two types of consumable items (scrolls and potions) to be used (and spellwrought tattoos came out AFTER artificer was published).
Replicate magic item does not exclude consumable magic items (of which there are more than tattoos). And spellwrought tattoos were published in the SAME BOOK as Artificer (reprint) and nothing was changed to exclude them then.
I beg to differ.
The wording of Infuse Item includes "The magic items you create with this feature are effectively prototypes of permanent items."
Anything that is temporary, such as potions, scrolls and these tattoos, are not really permanent items.
There is no expiry date on potions. Non-magical swords and metal armor are also permanent items, but if a rust monster hits them or something, their existence ends.
Furthermore, prototypes can be temporary. A prototype weapon that can only be used once (because they haven't worked all the bugs out yet) is a classic trope.
You can only use the magic in the potion once then it is no longer a magical potion, whereas the magic in a magic sword is used as often as you like.
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Like the title states my question is, is it possible to nest the find familiar spell on itself?
This is the full idea;
First, 2 levels in Artificer for Item Infusion choosing to Replicate Magic Item and choosing the common item Spellwrought Tattoo 1st level containing the Find Familiar spell x4.
You now have four needles a day to Find Familiars.
Next, 3 levels in Warlock for Pact of the Chain. The idea behind this was I could summon my own familiar as a ritual probably an Imp for the relatively high intelligence as a commander of sorts
Lastly, use all your 1st level Spellwrought Tattoos on your familiar, your familiars' familiar, and so on, until you have an army of familiars at your disposal.
Does this work how I'm thinking? Is this a legit and legal combo? Is there a requirement to cast the find familiar spell from the spellwrought tattoo; or can even a familiar do it? Does a creature need an INT score or something?
I was hoping to have a traveling familiar pet shop service if you will, and with every pet I'm able to adopt out, my secret spy network grows.
Is it possible?
Bonus. Can you train your familiars introducing them to your dark patron using the rules from DMG to add levels to monsters, train them to 3rd level warlock for the eldritch invocation, voice of the chain master to have a familiar spy network around the world with the ability to relay all that juicy gossip back to you anywhere in the world, at least on this plane.
You only get 2 needles per day until 6th level, but besides that, this is technically RAW.
Each familiar is owned by the previous familiar, not you. You only get direct control over one of them, for the rest you have to send an order down the chain for any of them to do anything. And, you only get the special benefits your familiar conveys from your (singular) familiar. No casting spells or using the senses through the 45th familiar down the line.
That means if your familiar dies, your don’t have any control over the others until you resummon yours, and if another link breaks in the chain, you have to send an order down again.
And finally, wIthout at least a bit of DM buy-in, or there could be some reasonable pushback limiting the usefulness anyway. Usually speaking short utterances on your turn is fine to issue a command, but if you’re playing a game of telephone on your turn of anything more than a few stages, then a DM might rule that your command only makes it down the ladder a few rungs each round. And you have to be creative with your commands, because it would have to make your familiar do whatever you want and send the command down the chain.
Some DMs will also not allow Spellwrought Tattoos as valid items for Replicate Magic Item, since it is a consumable magic item - and the Replicate Magic Item doesn't allow the other two types of consumable items (scrolls and potions) to be used (and spellwrought tattoos came out AFTER artificer was published).
Each successive familiar is supposed to be casting the spell, correct? Otherwise you run into the issue of find familiar not allowing for multiple active castings. But the spellwrought tattoo only grants the ability to use the spell, and removes the need for material components. It doesn't remove the need for the verbal and somatic components, which a familiar might not be able to perform. Plus the description for the tattoo says 'you hold the needle against your skin and speak the command word.' That's another time that speaking is required, as some DMs might argue that it has to be self-applied. So the imp might be able to do it, since they can speak languages per their stat block, but that might be it.
Birgit | Shifter | Sorcerer | Dragonlords
Shayone | Hobgoblin | Sorcerer | Netherdeep
Replicate magic item does not exclude consumable magic items (of which there are more than tattoos). And spellwrought tattoos were published in the SAME BOOK as Artificer (reprint) and nothing was changed to exclude them then.
This is a good point, the familiar must be capable of speech to use the tattoo. No problem for the imp from pact of the chain.
Maybe the DM would allow raven familiars to mimic the command word?
Scrolls and Potions are excluded, and both are consumable magic items. This is why there could be an inference that spellwrought tattoos would be included in that list.
Non-scroll/potion common magic items printed before or at the same time as Artificer:
Not a long list, but all valid targets for replicate magic item. If it wasn't supposed to work with these, it would say so.
Not relevant. Casting a spell from a magic item doesn't require any components.
"The spell is cast at the lowest possible spell and caster level, doesn’t expend any of the user’s spell slots, and requires no components unless the item’s description says otherwise. "
DMG > Chapter 7 > Magic Items > Activating an Item > Spells
Link: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dmg/treasure#Spells
The item spellwrought tatto doesn't say you need to provide verbal or somatic components, just clarifies that no material components are required.
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It isn't about the spell's verbal component, it is about the tattoo requiring a command word.
No speech > no tattoo > no familiar.
Ohhh
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What do you mean? A tattoo isn't a consumable item, wearing it is a form of attunement, and as stated by the rules for every magic tattoo, the needle drops to the floor after the attunement ends. I do get why this seems like a consumable item though.
Hollow unbreakable arrows are the most OP common magic item, and my current method of coming up with insane combat shenanigans.
if you make a steel pipe with one end closed and a nozzle on the other, you can enlarge it, fill with any liquid, and then drop concentration, creating a high pressure squirt gun. (or a pipe bomb, depending if it holds)
Because of the line "The tattoo glows faintly while you cast the spell and for the spell’s duration. Once the spell ends, the tattoo vanishes from your skin."
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
I beg to differ.
The wording of Infuse Item includes "The magic items you create with this feature are effectively prototypes of permanent items."
Anything that is temporary, such as potions, scrolls and these tattoos, are not really permanent items.
You can only use the magic in the potion once then it is no longer a magical potion, whereas the magic in a magic sword is used as often as you like.