Specifically: this isn't about stacking AC calculations, it's can mage armor be cast at all if a Warforged has used Integrated Protection.
IE could Mage Armor be cast to refresh an Abjuration Wizards Arcane Ward (you only get one AC calculation period so that's a given, but I'm a bit unclear on the wording.
I'm assuming you get the AC calculation for Integrated Protection is: 10 + Dex mod (less armor restrictions on Dex mod) +1 (Integrated Protection) + AC of armor?
For Reference:
Integrated Protection
Your body has built-in defensive layers, which can be enhanced with armor:
You gain a +1 bonus to Armor Class.
You can don only armor with which you have proficiency. To don armor other than a shield, you must incorporate it into your body over the course of 1 hour, during which you remain in contact with the armor. To doff armor, you must spend 1 hour removing it. You can rest while donning or doffing armor in this way.
While you live, the armor incorporated into your body can’t be removed against your will.
Mage Armor You touch a willing creature who isn't wearing armor, and a protective magical force surrounds it until the spell ends. The target's base AC becomes 13 + its Dexterity modifier. The spell ends if the target dons armor or if you dismiss the spell as an action.
If you are asking if mage armor stacks with warforged's integrated protection, then the answer is yes, and your AC is 14+DEX.
If you are asking if you can cast mage armor on a warforged that has in donned armor, then no because they are "wearing" armor and mage armor specifically can't target them.
The Warforged's Integrated Protection is a modifier that doesn't specify that you have to be wearing armor, so it does still apply when unarmored, such as when you are using Mage Armor. However, you can't benefit from Mage Armor if you're wearing armor, because it's in the spell description. Integrated separate armor into your form is still wearing armor.
Mage Armor would refresh an Abjuration Wizard's Arcane Ward by 2pts (because it's a 1st level spell). If you took the Feat, Eldritch Adept at L4, and picked Armor of Shadows as your Invocation, when you're out of combat, you can cast Mage Armor without expending a spell slot repeatedly until your Arcane Ward is full. Every time you cast Mage Armor, you're just re-setting the 8hr duration. The effects of Mage Armor don't stack, but you'll always know that it will last 8hrs after the last time you cast it, so you should never be caught in combat without having Mage Armor up.
As a Warforged with Mage Armor, your AC is 13+1+Dex Mod, and if you can add other bonuses later from items, like a Ring or Cloak of Protection.
If I'm understand correctly, your question is, "is a warforged who dons armor considered to be wearing that armor?" EDIT: I think that's not what you meant, actually. I'll leave my response here regardless.
I'd say yes. That's what donning means. Putting it on. I don't think this is a "specific beats general" situation: All of the language around armor refers to the "wearer." You're still wearing it, because if you weren't wearing it, it wouldn't provide you with its benefits, and that would make the Integrated Protection feature extremely stupid.
A warforged who doesn't use armor can be the target of Mage Armor. A warforged who does, can't. EDIT: If you don't put on armor, you're not wearing armor. The mere act of being a warforged doesn't count as wearing armor.
What our tables going with is that because of the integrated wording incorporated into your body, and the time to don or doff armor (and can't be removed against your will) it's not being considered worn. This also means that it can't be removed when willing by other magical effects that can interact with worn items to circumvent the 1 hour donning / doffing, if you get hit with heat metal for instance. It is still an AC calculation though - which you get one of, and Stealth disadvantage is per armor type. However, this also means that things like the Defense Fighting Style aren't applicable either with armor used with Integrated Protection
So strictly for our use they can be the target of Mage Armor - but it's effectively only useful for refreshing Arcane Ward, as FayetteGamer mentioned.
I just don't understand the problem. It's probably my thing. But: - integrated protection gives you +1 AC. - Putting on and taking off armor takes 1h (which can be done in a break). - Armor you're wearing can't be removed if you don't want to.
Then if you use the Mage Armor spell your AC is 13 + DEX + 1. If you are wearing armor, you cannot benefit from the Mage Armor spell (because of the spell).
Also keep in mind that if you have, for whatever reason, several "armors", only one of them applies. That is, if you had an armor of 12 and an armor of 18, only apply one (which you choose): https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/step-by-step-characters#ArmorClass "Some spells and class features give you a different way to calculate your AC. If you have multiple features that give you different ways to calculate your AC, you choose which one to use."
A different case is for AC modifiers, which stack. If you have a ring of protection, a shield, and you are a Warforged, your AC would be: 10 (if you're not wearing any armor) + DEX + 1 ring of protection + 2 shield + 1 integrated protection.
And then something that seemed to me to understand, but that seems to me a very strange doubt. Perhaps it is I who have misunderstood. Anyway, in case there is that strange doubt, even if you are a Warforge, taking off and putting on a Mage Armor does not take 1h. That's just for "physical" armor. Mage Armor is a spell, and that wouldn't make sense.
It was a bit confusing but I thought the question was:
"Is a warforged with armor integrated into it a valid target for the Mage Armor spell. i.e. can you cast Mage Armor in this situation"
I think the situation might be something like a 1 artificer/X abjuration wizard - warforged - wearing armor - can they cast Mage Armor on themselves to refresh the ward?
The wording of Mage Armor says "You touch a willing creature who isn't wearing armor" ... which leads me to believe that a warforged with actual armor integrated into it (not the integrated protection feature) is not a valid target for Mage Armor and so a 1 Artificier/X abjuration wizard could not cast the spell on themselves to refresh the ward - they'd have to cast it on someone else.
The Integrated Protection feature also increases AC by 1 but that has nothing to do with whether the warforged is wearing armor or not. If the warforged has armor integrated it is considered to be "wearing" it.
Also, it is a DM call, but integrated armor may or may not have total cover from spells depending on how the DM rules it. If the armor is actually integrated into the body of the warforged, it may not be visible, in which case it would not be a valid target for spells like heat metal.
I am no expert but when I have played with a warforged PC they needed to have armor to get the extra +1 AC it did not apply with just normal cloths, if I was playing wrong then I am sorry for the confusion with my answer above.
My thought process about the 1 hour time frame is that it takes the warforged 1 hours to adjust their body to the new armor and so they get the extra +1 AC, since mage armor is not adjustable it cannot get the extra bonus. But again that is my thoughts and not official in any way and how I would house rule it. Why? Well in general people I have played with thought the warforged race is a strong race and some limitations were needed vs other races in the setting, so this was the GM's decision.
I am no expert but when I have played with a warforged PC they needed to have armor to get the extra +1 AC it did not apply with just normal cloths, if I was playing wrong then I am sorry for the confusion with my answer above.
I cant recreate this. My warforged applies the +1 without armor, no problem.
I am no expert but when I have played with a warforged PC they needed to have armor to get the extra +1 AC it did not apply with just normal cloths, if I was playing wrong then I am sorry for the confusion with my answer above.
My thought process about the 1 hour time frame is that it takes the warforged 1 hours to adjust their body to the new armor and so they get the extra +1 AC, since mage armor is not adjustable it cannot get the extra bonus. But again that is my thoughts and not official in any way and how I would house rule it. Why? Well in general people I have played with thought the warforged race is a strong race and some limitations were needed vs other races in the setting, so this was the GM's decision.
There are three separate bullet points in the Warforged traits list.
The first line says "You gain a +1 bonus to Armor Class."
There is no mention of needing to be wearing any specific armour at all to gain this benefit. Indeed it would still apply if you were wearing no armour and did not have Mage Armor spell up either.
Only the second and third points are referring to incorporating worn armour into your body.
So a Warforged with a 16 DEX standing there “naked” (no clothes or armor) would have an AC of 14 (10+3 DEX+1Intrgrated Protection)
The same Warforged with Scale Mail integrated into their body will have AC 17 (14 Armor+2 DEX+1 IP). And if they were an abjuration wizard, unable to cast mage armor on themselves to refresh their ward, due to the armor.
So a Warforged with a 16 DEX standing there “naked” (no clothes or armor) would have an AC of 14 (10+3 DEX+1Intrgrated Protection)
The same Warforged with Scale Mail integrated into their body will have AC 17 (14 Armor+2 DEX+1 IP). And if they were an abjuration wizard, unable to cast mage armor on themselves to refresh their ward, due to the armor.
That sound correct?
Exactly.
There are other Abjuration spells at 1st level. Alarm comes to mind. But that's not an action to cast.
So a Warforged with a 16 DEX standing there “naked” (no clothes or armor) would have an AC of 14 (10+3 DEX+1Intrgrated Protection)
The same Warforged with Scale Mail integrated into their body will have AC 17 (14 Armor+2 DEX+1 IP). And if they were an abjuration wizard, unable to cast mage armor on themselves to refresh their ward, due to the armor.
That sound correct?
Exactly.
There are other Abjuration spells at 1st level. Alarm comes to mind. But that's not an action to cast.
Right.
Alarm is a ritual though, so can be cast repeatedly between combat to recharge ward without having to take a feat or multiclass for armor of shadows.
If I was wrong then I am sorry but my reasoning from experience is below:
The GM's in question reason was you needed armor to integrate and that improved the base AC of the armor if you did not have armor then this bonus was easy to by pass during combat.
Their base idea/reasoning from memory was; the warforged frame provided extra support for the armor to protect the person and that these structural hardpoints simply defected attacks into non-protected areas if armor was not worn. Like wise their reasoning on Mage Armor was a magical field that provided protection like armor it does not create armor and cannot be manipulated like armor, ie you cannot take off the right arm of mage armor like you can take off the right arm of chain mail. So the treat mage armor like a ring of protections AC bonus and not something physical even if they are both magical.
In general I have played with quite a few people that have no trouble homebrewing their games do to language and or idea problems presented in RAW and it can cause some confusion when I answer questions off the cuff.
In general I can say in my game I would not have the warforged get a base +1 AC and rule as above but that is because I require more tracking of food and water and other things that others often do not, thus those abilities are huge in my game and having a +1 base AC on top of that and their other abilities is slightly more powerful then most other races.
I just thought of a couple of other areas that I think are non-standard and would cause issues with D&DB, in their games a Monk has to be using their martial arts style to get a bonus equal to their wisdom bonus, ie if they are a sleep they do not get it. The other is a barbarians Con bonus to AC and that they have to be actively trying to avoid combat. Both of these ideas would need special attention in programing on D&DB, I think it could be as easy (potentially) as a condition button with the necessary back end code to make all the stuff happen, I would also say that Rage, Bladesinging and the Bloodhunters Lycan ability would be great condition buttons on a D&DB sheet.
I just thought of a couple of other areas that I think are non-standard and would cause issues with D&DB, in their games a Monk has to be using their martial arts style to get a bonus equal to their wisdom bonus, ie if they are a sleep they do not get it. The other is a barbarians Con bonus to AC and that they have to be actively trying to avoid combat. Both of these ideas would need special attention in programing on D&DB, I think it could be as easy (potentially) as a condition button with the necessary back end code to make all the stuff happen, I would also say that Rage, Bladesinging and the Bloodhunters Lycan ability would be great condition buttons on a D&DB sheet.
All of this homebrew, not RAW, so dndbeyond doesn't support it.
If I was wrong then I am sorry but my reasoning from experience is below:
The GM's in question reason was you needed armor to integrate and that improved the base AC of the armor if you did not have armor then this bonus was easy to by pass during combat.
Their base idea/reasoning from memory was; the warforged frame provided extra support for the armor to protect the person and that these structural hardpoints simply defected attacks into non-protected areas if armor was not worn. Like wise their reasoning on Mage Armor was a magical field that provided protection like armor it does not create armor and cannot be manipulated like armor, ie you cannot take off the right arm of mage armor like you can take off the right arm of chain mail. So the treat mage armor like a ring of protections AC bonus and not something physical even if they are both magical.
In general I have played with quite a few people that have no trouble homebrewing their games do to language and or idea problems presented in RAW and it can cause some confusion when I answer questions off the cuff.
In general I can say in my game I would not have the warforged get a base +1 AC and rule as above but that is because I require more tracking of food and water and other things that others often do not, thus those abilities are huge in my game and having a +1 base AC on top of that and their other abilities is slightly more powerful then most other races.
I understand your logic and reasoning, but that is not what the RAW is. They get a +1 to AC end of effect.
They have protection is integrated into their bodies from the get go and that existing protection can be further enhanced by adding armor. That is what it says.
I just thought of a couple of other areas that I think are non-standard and would cause issues with D&DB, in their games a Monk has to be using their martial arts style to get a bonus equal to their wisdom bonus, ie if they are a sleep they do not get it. The other is a barbarians Con bonus to AC and that they have to be actively trying to avoid combat. Both of these ideas would need special attention in programing on D&DB, I think it could be as easy (potentially) as a condition button with the necessary back end code to make all the stuff happen, I would also say that Rage, Bladesinging and the Bloodhunters Lycan ability would be great condition buttons on a D&DB sheet.
That isn't how AC works in 5e. They made it simpler than earlier editions which had flat footed and touch ACs that actually did account for if you were actively dodging or not.
You can add these rules as house rules, but DDB is under no obligation to accommodate every possible house rule. Almost the opposite in fact.
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Specifically: this isn't about stacking AC calculations, it's can mage armor be cast at all if a Warforged has used Integrated Protection.
IE could Mage Armor be cast to refresh an Abjuration Wizards Arcane Ward (you only get one AC calculation period so that's a given, but I'm a bit unclear on the wording.
I'm assuming you get the AC calculation for Integrated Protection is: 10 + Dex mod (less armor restrictions on Dex mod) +1 (Integrated Protection) + AC of armor?
For Reference:
Your body has built-in defensive layers, which can be enhanced with armor:
Mage Armor
You touch a willing creature who isn't wearing armor, and a protective magical force surrounds it until the spell ends. The target's base AC becomes 13 + its Dexterity modifier. The spell ends if the target dons armor or if you dismiss the spell as an action.
IMHO, the wording of mage armor replaces the wording listed in the warforged race.
Or simply the warforged has to wear armor/incorporate it into their person to get the +1 AC bonus and mage armor does not qualify as wearing armor.
But as always you or your GM may rule otherwise for some game/campaign reason.
If you are asking if mage armor stacks with warforged's integrated protection, then the answer is yes, and your AC is 14+DEX.
If you are asking if you can cast mage armor on a warforged that has in donned armor, then no because they are "wearing" armor and mage armor specifically can't target them.
The Warforged's Integrated Protection is a modifier that doesn't specify that you have to be wearing armor, so it does still apply when unarmored, such as when you are using Mage Armor. However, you can't benefit from Mage Armor if you're wearing armor, because it's in the spell description. Integrated separate armor into your form is still wearing armor.
Mage Armor would refresh an Abjuration Wizard's Arcane Ward by 2pts (because it's a 1st level spell). If you took the Feat, Eldritch Adept at L4, and picked Armor of Shadows as your Invocation, when you're out of combat, you can cast Mage Armor without expending a spell slot repeatedly until your Arcane Ward is full. Every time you cast Mage Armor, you're just re-setting the 8hr duration. The effects of Mage Armor don't stack, but you'll always know that it will last 8hrs after the last time you cast it, so you should never be caught in combat without having Mage Armor up.
As a Warforged with Mage Armor, your AC is 13+1+Dex Mod, and if you can add other bonuses later from items, like a Ring or Cloak of Protection.
If I'm understand correctly, your question is, "is a warforged who dons armor considered to be wearing that armor?" EDIT: I think that's not what you meant, actually. I'll leave my response here regardless.
I'd say yes. That's what donning means. Putting it on. I don't think this is a "specific beats general" situation: All of the language around armor refers to the "wearer." You're still wearing it, because if you weren't wearing it, it wouldn't provide you with its benefits, and that would make the Integrated Protection feature extremely stupid.
A warforged who doesn't use armor can be the target of Mage Armor. A warforged who does, can't. EDIT: If you don't put on armor, you're not wearing armor. The mere act of being a warforged doesn't count as wearing armor.
okay, thanks all for the responses and input!
What our tables going with is that because of the integrated wording incorporated into your body, and the time to don or doff armor (and can't be removed against your will) it's not being considered worn. This also means that it can't be removed when willing by other magical effects that can interact with worn items to circumvent the 1 hour donning / doffing, if you get hit with heat metal for instance. It is still an AC calculation though - which you get one of, and Stealth disadvantage is per armor type. However, this also means that things like the Defense Fighting Style aren't applicable either with armor used with Integrated Protection
So strictly for our use they can be the target of Mage Armor - but it's effectively only useful for refreshing Arcane Ward, as FayetteGamer mentioned.
I just don't understand the problem. It's probably my thing.
But:
- integrated protection gives you +1 AC.
- Putting on and taking off armor takes 1h (which can be done in a break).
- Armor you're wearing can't be removed if you don't want to.
Then if you use the Mage Armor spell your AC is 13 + DEX + 1.
If you are wearing armor, you cannot benefit from the Mage Armor spell (because of the spell).
Also keep in mind that if you have, for whatever reason, several "armors", only one of them applies. That is, if you had an armor of 12 and an armor of 18, only apply one (which you choose):
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/step-by-step-characters#ArmorClass
"Some spells and class features give you a different way to calculate your AC. If you have multiple features that give you different ways to calculate your AC, you choose which one to use."
A different case is for AC modifiers, which stack. If you have a ring of protection, a shield, and you are a Warforged, your AC would be:
10 (if you're not wearing any armor) + DEX + 1 ring of protection + 2 shield + 1 integrated protection.
And then something that seemed to me to understand, but that seems to me a very strange doubt. Perhaps it is I who have misunderstood. Anyway, in case there is that strange doubt, even if you are a Warforge, taking off and putting on a Mage Armor does not take 1h. That's just for "physical" armor. Mage Armor is a spell, and that wouldn't make sense.
It was a bit confusing but I thought the question was:
"Is a warforged with armor integrated into it a valid target for the Mage Armor spell. i.e. can you cast Mage Armor in this situation"
I think the situation might be something like a 1 artificer/X abjuration wizard - warforged - wearing armor - can they cast Mage Armor on themselves to refresh the ward?
The wording of Mage Armor says "You touch a willing creature who isn't wearing armor" ... which leads me to believe that a warforged with actual armor integrated into it (not the integrated protection feature) is not a valid target for Mage Armor and so a 1 Artificier/X abjuration wizard could not cast the spell on themselves to refresh the ward - they'd have to cast it on someone else.
The Integrated Protection feature also increases AC by 1 but that has nothing to do with whether the warforged is wearing armor or not. If the warforged has armor integrated it is considered to be "wearing" it.
Also, it is a DM call, but integrated armor may or may not have total cover from spells depending on how the DM rules it. If the armor is actually integrated into the body of the warforged, it may not be visible, in which case it would not be a valid target for spells like heat metal.
I am no expert but when I have played with a warforged PC they needed to have armor to get the extra +1 AC it did not apply with just normal cloths, if I was playing wrong then I am sorry for the confusion with my answer above.
My thought process about the 1 hour time frame is that it takes the warforged 1 hours to adjust their body to the new armor and so they get the extra +1 AC, since mage armor is not adjustable it cannot get the extra bonus. But again that is my thoughts and not official in any way and how I would house rule it. Why? Well in general people I have played with thought the warforged race is a strong race and some limitations were needed vs other races in the setting, so this was the GM's decision.
I cant recreate this. My warforged applies the +1 without armor, no problem.
There are three separate bullet points in the Warforged traits list.
The first line says "You gain a +1 bonus to Armor Class."
There is no mention of needing to be wearing any specific armour at all to gain this benefit. Indeed it would still apply if you were wearing no armour and did not have Mage Armor spell up either.
Only the second and third points are referring to incorporating worn armour into your body.
So a Warforged with a 16 DEX standing there “naked” (no clothes or armor) would have an AC of 14 (10+3 DEX+1Intrgrated Protection)
The same Warforged with Scale Mail integrated into their body will have AC 17 (14 Armor+2 DEX+1 IP). And if they were an abjuration wizard, unable to cast mage armor on themselves to refresh their ward, due to the armor.
That sound correct?
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Exactly.
There are other Abjuration spells at 1st level. Alarm comes to mind. But that's not an action to cast.
Right.
Alarm is a ritual though, so can be cast repeatedly between combat to recharge ward without having to take a feat or multiclass for armor of shadows.
To DxjxC and Farling;
If I was wrong then I am sorry but my reasoning from experience is below:
The GM's in question reason was you needed armor to integrate and that improved the base AC of the armor if you did not have armor then this bonus was easy to by pass during combat.
Their base idea/reasoning from memory was; the warforged frame provided extra support for the armor to protect the person and that these structural hardpoints simply defected attacks into non-protected areas if armor was not worn. Like wise their reasoning on Mage Armor was a magical field that provided protection like armor it does not create armor and cannot be manipulated like armor, ie you cannot take off the right arm of mage armor like you can take off the right arm of chain mail. So the treat mage armor like a ring of protections AC bonus and not something physical even if they are both magical.
In general I have played with quite a few people that have no trouble homebrewing their games do to language and or idea problems presented in RAW and it can cause some confusion when I answer questions off the cuff.
In general I can say in my game I would not have the warforged get a base +1 AC and rule as above but that is because I require more tracking of food and water and other things that others often do not, thus those abilities are huge in my game and having a +1 base AC on top of that and their other abilities is slightly more powerful then most other races.
A side note:
I just thought of a couple of other areas that I think are non-standard and would cause issues with D&DB, in their games a Monk has to be using their martial arts style to get a bonus equal to their wisdom bonus, ie if they are a sleep they do not get it. The other is a barbarians Con bonus to AC and that they have to be actively trying to avoid combat. Both of these ideas would need special attention in programing on D&DB, I think it could be as easy (potentially) as a condition button with the necessary back end code to make all the stuff happen, I would also say that Rage, Bladesinging and the Bloodhunters Lycan ability would be great condition buttons on a D&DB sheet.
All of this homebrew, not RAW, so dndbeyond doesn't support it.
I understand your logic and reasoning, but that is not what the RAW is. They get a +1 to AC end of effect.
They have protection is integrated into their bodies from the get go and that existing protection can be further enhanced by adding armor. That is what it says.
That isn't how AC works in 5e. They made it simpler than earlier editions which had flat footed and touch ACs that actually did account for if you were actively dodging or not.
You can add these rules as house rules, but DDB is under no obligation to accommodate every possible house rule. Almost the opposite in fact.