I'm designing a trap for my players, and one of them is playing a dwarf.
The wording of Dwarven Resilience feels very old to me to me, unlike most newer (and clearer) wordings when it comes to new races and other effects.
"You have advantage on saving throws against poison, and you have resistance against poison damage."
The latter half of the sentence is pretty self explanatory, but it's the former that has me second-guessing...
My question, as you might have already guessed is as follows;
Does Dwarven Resilience grant advantage on saving throws against effects that deal;
a. Poison damage (like from cloudkill)
b. The poison condition (like with a ghasts 'stench' effect)
c. Both?
I've tried to find some info about this online and only came across conversations about saving on a saving throw and taking 1/4 of the rolled damage, which isn't what I was looking for.
To elaborate, I believe that this will be dependent on the specific poison that is involved. If you check out Chapter 15 (Running the Game) from the Basic Rules, take a look at the section on Poisons. This is more or less taken from the Poisons section of the DMG.
Anyways, in that section there is a table of 14 sample poisons and there is a description for each one. One thing that each and every one of those descriptions has in common is that there will be a saving throw involved when interacting with the poison. Some will be related to poison damage, some will be related to the poisoned condition, and so on. In my opinion, the Dwarven Resilience feature applies to all of these particular saving throws that is described for the various poisons. Obviously, the DM can make up their own poison as well that doesn't appear on the given table -- but they should probably follow the same principles when inventing poisons for their games which means that a saving throw will be involved that is affected by the Dwarven Resilience feature.
As one example: "Assassin's Blood (Ingested). A creature subjected to this poison must make a DC 10 Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, it takes 6 (1d12) poison damage and is poisoned for 24 hours. On a successful save, the creature takes half damage and isn't poisoned." So, in this case the poison might inflict poison damage and the poisoned condition. The saving throw mentioned in that description would be made with advantage by a character who has Dwarven Resilience.
Dwarves are simply hard to poison That's a solid core aspect of the species, and they are big on that whole "hardier than thou" thing (it is why they can drink others under the table -- alcohol is a poison and they aren't affected by it like others are).
I will point out that it also means the not only have advantage, but that they will take less damage from poisons -- so the cloudkill save is half or none, not all or half. If a poison did 15 damage, I'd say it causes 7 damage to a dwarf. It is a big part of them.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I will point out that it also means the not only have advantage, but that they will take less damage from poisons -- so the cloudkill save is half or none, not all or half. If a poison did 15 damage, I'd say it causes 7 damage to a dwarf. It is a big part of them.
The cloudkill save would be half or quarter. Halving something twice doesn't result in 0 (unless that something is 0).
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Any saving throw involving poison and the dwarf has advantage on the save. If there is no save then the ability does not grant the dwarf a saving throw.
For example, some attacks will say something like (weapon damage) + (poison damage). In this case the dwarven poison resistance applies to reduce the poison damage but there is no saving throw involved. Other attacks will have a wording of (weapon damage) + (poison damage DC X for 1/2 damage). In this case, both the advantage on saving throws and the resistance applies reducing the damage to 1/4 on a successful save.
In the case of Cloudkill, it inflicts poison damage and requires a save so the dwarf has advantage.
In the case of a Ghast stench, there is a saving throw against the effects of a cloud inflicting the poisoned condition, since it is again poison related the dwarf would have advantage on their saving throw.
However, the dwarf is not immune to the poisoned condition.
P.S. Just for reference though ...
There are some changes to note in Mordenkainen's Monsters of the Multiverse:
In MMotM, the Dwarven Resilience trait for Duergar has been re-written:
"Dwarven Resilience. You have advantage on saving throws you make to avoid or end the poisoned condition on yourself. You also have resistance to poison damage."
They only receive advantage on saves against the poisoned condition, not against effects that inflict poison damage unless the effect inflicting the poison damage also inflicts the poisoned condition.
-----
This is the same as the Yuan-Ti pureblood trait from MMotM.
"Poison Resilience. You have advantage on saving throws you make to avoid or end the poisoned condition on yourself. You also have resistance to poison damage."
After taking a week or so to do more research on the matter, as my sessions has been oh so classically delayed (you DMs out there get me);
I've read the comments and searched a bit more on my own to find and compare, and came to the following insights;
1. I was initially reluctent to heed the advice of the first comment made by up2ng, because the comment was made about specifically the poisons in the DMG, whereas I believe in newer printing of newer material, wordings related to these things has become a lot more clear - For example Xanather's guide has a whole retooled section about traps, and among them poison traps. The specific trap that caught my attention and caused this thread is actualy the Death fog trap from Return to glory (an extra life adventure from 2021), that basically functions like a cloudkill spell (and is presented like a trap from Xanather's guide). The spell doesn't inflict both poison damage and the condition, rather just the damage - so I initially thought the commenter's approached was skewed (as 9 out of the 14 poisons in the DMG - inflict both).
2. I compared it to a thread in the sage advice compendium, which stated that the monk's level 10 feature - Purity of mind, would give it immunity to both the damage and the condition. Ironically, this dwarf character is also a monk, but not level 10 yet. However, I feel like the ruling made by (probably) Jeremy Crawford makes a lot of sense - and to put it to my specific table; that character would have a advantage on saving throws against effects that deal either/or.
3. The comment made by AEDorsay had my agreeing at first, especially about being drunk - to which no official rules exist, and my players have already partifipated in drinking competition, it only made me realise that I should be more 'on point' about remembering how to apply the benefit of dwarven resilience consistently, because I've been fickle about it in the past - to the benefit of my players (accidently giving immunity to the poisoned condition a small number of occassions). Regardless, the 2nd half had me scratch my head a bit - seeing as how the 'half or nothing' wasn't mentioned anywhere I could find at least - and it was followed up with a correction from Quar1on.
4. After reading the aforementioned section from the sage advice compendium, also reading IamSposta's comment strengthened my view on it, and also reminded me of some cool new poisons not from the DMG that would be fun to toy with.
5. Reading David52's comment intrigued me the most with the mention of MMotM's newer wording on the dwarven resilience trait - to where it doesn't grant an advantage on effects requiring saving throws to avoid taking poison damage. Makes me wonder if it was the intent all along from 2014, or just a modern 'nerf'. Perhaps it only works that way on the duergar and the Yuan-ti... Also the math-side explanation was just wonderful to read - makes everything clear to calculate (which would probably help as in the 'heat of the moment' I tend to get things wrong... specifically with a ghast encounter I ran wrong - It hit right at home.
I guess we'll never know about the aforementioned intent for dwarven resilience (that is until the new 2024 core rulebooks come out whenever they do) but until then, this character is going to have an advantage on saving throws against effects the deal poison damage or inflict the poisoned effect (or effects that inflict both).
It does however bring up a final point to which I wanna hear your opinions; How would you treat effects that are similar to the poisoned condition, but do not specifically say the word 'poisoned' - the most basic example of this would be the 'Ash puff' ability from the Ash zombies in the original version of 'Lost Mines of Phandelver'. There are probably more apt examples of this but this is the first one that came to mind. One the one hand - it is more severe than the regular version of the poisoned condition (seeing as how it also inflicts a disadvantage on saving throws instead of just ability checks and attack rolls), But on the other hand, it is read so similarly to a poisone effect, especially with the CON saving throw. When I ran this encounter to my party, that question was brought up, but I ruled that it is a different effect, because it was specifically worded like the poisoned condition but did not actually use that word to describe the effect.
Anyway, Thank you to everyone who contributed!
Sorry about rambling
Would love to hear further opinions on the last matter mentioned in this post
So, generally, I turn to mechanical in situations like this, so I am inclined to treat it as a poison.
In my new game world, I have taken pains to be more specific wit my damage types (and I have a lot of them), because it has proven to make the play more interesting for us (like how weapons break on a nat 1 for us).
I have both Poison and Disease, and they operate very similarly, so I could possibly use Disease for it. I think since disease has a broader impact on the way we use fatigue, I would be more inclined towards Poison, but I can't say for certain because a lot of it is feel and what creates more drama (rule of cool) versus what creates more headaches and requires more work, lol.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
It does however bring up a final point to which I wanna hear your opinions; How would you treat effects that are similar to the poisoned condition, but do not specifically say the word 'poisoned' - the most basic example of this would be the 'Ash puff' ability from the Ash zombies in the original version of 'Lost Mines of Phandelver'. There are probably more apt examples of this but this is the first one that came to mind. One the one hand - it is more severe than the regular version of the poisoned condition (seeing as how it also inflicts a disadvantage on saving throws instead of just ability checks and attack rolls), But on the other hand, it is read so similarly to a poisone effect, especially with the CON saving throw. When I ran this encounter to my party, that question was brought up, but I ruled that it is a different effect, because it was specifically worded like the poisoned condition but did not actually use that word to describe the effect.
Anyway, Thank you to everyone who contributed!
Sorry about rambling
Would love to hear further opinions on the last matter mentioned in this post
I am unfamiliar with the ash zombie from the “original version” of LMoP, so I cannot say for sure. However, that being said (written), if it reads like a poison, venom, or toxin then I would treat it as a poison, if it reads like a disease of some kind then I would not. Make sense?
It does however bring up a final point to which I wanna hear your opinions; How would you treat effects that are similar to the poisoned condition, but do not specifically say the word 'poisoned' - the most basic example of this would be the 'Ash puff' ability from the Ash zombies in the original version of 'Lost Mines of Phandelver'.
. . .
When I ran this encounter to my party, that question was brought up, but I ruled that it is a different effect, because it was specifically worded like the poisoned condition but did not actually use that word to describe the effect.
This was the correct ruling. Poison is a specific thing in D&D. Mainly, it's one of the damage types listed in Chapter 9 and it is also one of the official Conditions listed in Appendix A so the effect in question pretty much has to use the word "poison" or "Poisoned" somewhere in its description for it to be poison. The Dwarf species has an inherant trait which makes them resistant to poison. In my opinion it would be unbalanced to generalize and extend this attribute to any affect that does not specifically and explicitly declare that it is poison.
I think that it would be a mistake in logic to look at the mechanical consequences of the poisoned condition and then work backwards from there and treat every other instance of these same consequences as if they are also poison. There are many ways that these consequences can be inflicted upon the creature -- there can be similarities and overlap between what various different effects actually do. For example, the Frightened Condition creates some similar consequences. The Restrained Condition might have some overlap. Three levels of Exhaustion also causes similar consequences. There might also be individual descriptions from spells, feats, abilities, class features and so on that cause similar consequences without actually being a poison or a poisonous source. In these examples the similar mechanical consequences are all caused for vastly different reasons by different effects or circumstances and so we obviously should not assume that all of these are poison based only on their similar mechanical effects.
The ash zombie is a good example of this: "These zombies were created by the magical devastation when Mount Hotenow erupted thirty years ago." and: "Ash Puff. The first time the zombie takes damage, any living creature within 5 feet of the zombie must succeed on a DC 10 Constitution saving throw or gain disadvantage on attack rolls, saving throws, and ability checks for 1 minute. A creature can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on it early with a successful save."
In terms of flavor, this is a Zombie that is covered in a layer of ash. When the zombie is hit, a thick cloud of ash puffs out 5 feet in all directions and creatures within this area are all of a sudden coughing and choking on this contaminated air for a while, causing various mechanical disadvantages. This is not a poison in terms of game mechanics -- it's just another type of environmental effect that causes some similar problems for creatures who are affected by it -- so a Dwarf should not be inherently resisting this effect from this source based only on his special species trait of being resistant to poison.
After taking a week or so to do more research on the matter, as my sessions has been oh so classically delayed (you DMs out there get me);
I've read the comments and searched a bit more on my own to find and compare, and came to the following insights;
1. I was initially reluctent to heed the advice of the first comment made by up2ng, because the comment was made about specifically the poisons in the DMG, whereas I believe in newer printing of newer material, wordings related to these things has become a lot more clear - For example Xanather's guide has a whole retooled section about traps, and among them poison traps. The specific trap that caught my attention and caused this thread is actualy the Death fog trap from Return to glory (an extra life adventure from 2021), that basically functions like a cloudkill spell (and is presented like a trap from Xanather's guide). The spell doesn't inflict both poison damage and the condition, rather just the damage - so I initially thought the commenter's approached was skewed (as 9 out of the 14 poisons in the DMG - inflict both).
2. I compared it to a thread in the sage advice compendium, which stated that the monk's level 10 feature - Purity of mind, would give it immunity to both the damage and the condition. Ironically, this dwarf character is also a monk, but not level 10 yet. However, I feel like the ruling made by (probably) Jeremy Crawford makes a lot of sense - and to put it to my specific table; that character would have a advantage on saving throws against effects that deal either/or.
3. The comment made by AEDorsay had my agreeing at first, especially about being drunk - to which no official rules exist, and my players have already partifipated in drinking competition, it only made me realise that I should be more 'on point' about remembering how to apply the benefit of dwarven resilience consistently, because I've been fickle about it in the past - to the benefit of my players (accidently giving immunity to the poisoned condition a small number of occassions). Regardless, the 2nd half had me scratch my head a bit - seeing as how the 'half or nothing' wasn't mentioned anywhere I could find at least - and it was followed up with a correction from Quar1on.
4. After reading the aforementioned section from the sage advice compendium, also reading IamSposta's comment strengthened my view on it, and also reminded me of some cool new poisons not from the DMG that would be fun to toy with.
5. Reading David52's comment intrigued me the most with the mention of MMotM's newer wording on the dwarven resilience trait - to where it doesn't grant an advantage on effects requiring saving throws to avoid taking poison damage. Makes me wonder if it was the intent all along from 2014, or just a modern 'nerf'. Perhaps it only works that way on the duergar and the Yuan-ti... Also the math-side explanation was just wonderful to read - makes everything clear to calculate (which would probably help as in the 'heat of the moment' I tend to get things wrong... specifically with a ghast encounter I ran wrong - It hit right at home.
I guess we'll never know about the aforementioned intent for dwarven resilience (that is until the new 2024 core rulebooks come out whenever they do) but until then, this character is going to have an advantage on saving throws against effects the deal poison damage or inflict the poisoned effect (or effects that inflict both).
The playtest rules for the Dwarf in the first Unearthed Arcana follow the wording for the MotM Duergar. Obviously, they might change when the new PHB is finally printed, but there’s a good chance that they’ll be very similar.
I'm designing a trap for my players, and one of them is playing a dwarf.
The wording of Dwarven Resilience feels very old to me to me, unlike most newer (and clearer) wordings when it comes to new races and other effects.
"You have advantage on saving throws against poison, and you have resistance against poison damage."
The latter half of the sentence is pretty self explanatory, but it's the former that has me second-guessing...
My question, as you might have already guessed is as follows;
Does Dwarven Resilience grant advantage on saving throws against effects that deal;
a. Poison damage (like from cloudkill)
b. The poison condition (like with a ghasts 'stench' effect)
c. Both?
I've tried to find some info about this online and only came across conversations about saving on a saving throw and taking 1/4 of the rolled damage, which isn't what I was looking for.
I believe that the short answer is: c. Both.
To elaborate, I believe that this will be dependent on the specific poison that is involved. If you check out Chapter 15 (Running the Game) from the Basic Rules, take a look at the section on Poisons. This is more or less taken from the Poisons section of the DMG.
Anyways, in that section there is a table of 14 sample poisons and there is a description for each one. One thing that each and every one of those descriptions has in common is that there will be a saving throw involved when interacting with the poison. Some will be related to poison damage, some will be related to the poisoned condition, and so on. In my opinion, the Dwarven Resilience feature applies to all of these particular saving throws that is described for the various poisons. Obviously, the DM can make up their own poison as well that doesn't appear on the given table -- but they should probably follow the same principles when inventing poisons for their games which means that a saving throw will be involved that is affected by the Dwarven Resilience feature.
As one example: "Assassin's Blood (Ingested). A creature subjected to this poison must make a DC 10 Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, it takes 6 (1d12) poison damage and is poisoned for 24 hours. On a successful save, the creature takes half damage and isn't poisoned." So, in this case the poison might inflict poison damage and the poisoned condition. The saving throw mentioned in that description would be made with advantage by a character who has Dwarven Resilience.
I agree with Up2ng.
Dwarves are simply hard to poison That's a solid core aspect of the species, and they are big on that whole "hardier than thou" thing (it is why they can drink others under the table -- alcohol is a poison and they aren't affected by it like others are).
I will point out that it also means the not only have advantage, but that they will take less damage from poisons -- so the cloudkill save is half or none, not all or half. If a poison did 15 damage, I'd say it causes 7 damage to a dwarf. It is a big part of them.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
Yup, both. In addition they would also have advantage on saving throws against any other poisons that do anything different to the PC too, such as anything on this list: (https://www.dndbeyond.com/equipment?filter-search=Poison&filter-cost-min=&filter-cost-max=&filter-weight-min=&filter-weight-max=).
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The cloudkill save would be half or quarter. Halving something twice doesn't result in 0 (unless that something is 0).
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Any saving throw involving poison and the dwarf has advantage on the save. If there is no save then the ability does not grant the dwarf a saving throw.
For example, some attacks will say something like (weapon damage) + (poison damage). In this case the dwarven poison resistance applies to reduce the poison damage but there is no saving throw involved. Other attacks will have a wording of (weapon damage) + (poison damage DC X for 1/2 damage). In this case, both the advantage on saving throws and the resistance applies reducing the damage to 1/4 on a successful save.
In the case of Cloudkill, it inflicts poison damage and requires a save so the dwarf has advantage.
In the case of a Ghast stench, there is a saving throw against the effects of a cloud inflicting the poisoned condition, since it is again poison related the dwarf would have advantage on their saving throw.
However, the dwarf is not immune to the poisoned condition.
P.S. Just for reference though ...
There are some changes to note in Mordenkainen's Monsters of the Multiverse:
In MMotM, the Dwarven Resilience trait for Duergar has been re-written:
"Dwarven Resilience. You have advantage on saving throws you make to avoid or end the poisoned condition on yourself. You also have resistance to poison damage."
They only receive advantage on saves against the poisoned condition, not against effects that inflict poison damage unless the effect inflicting the poison damage also inflicts the poisoned condition.
-----
This is the same as the Yuan-Ti pureblood trait from MMotM.
"Poison Resilience. You have advantage on saving throws you make to avoid or end the poisoned condition on yourself. You also have resistance to poison damage."
After taking a week or so to do more research on the matter, as my sessions has been oh so classically delayed (you DMs out there get me);
I've read the comments and searched a bit more on my own to find and compare, and came to the following insights;
1. I was initially reluctent to heed the advice of the first comment made by up2ng, because the comment was made about specifically the poisons in the DMG, whereas I believe in newer printing of newer material, wordings related to these things has become a lot more clear - For example Xanather's guide has a whole retooled section about traps, and among them poison traps. The specific trap that caught my attention and caused this thread is actualy the Death fog trap from Return to glory (an extra life adventure from 2021), that basically functions like a cloudkill spell (and is presented like a trap from Xanather's guide). The spell doesn't inflict both poison damage and the condition, rather just the damage - so I initially thought the commenter's approached was skewed (as 9 out of the 14 poisons in the DMG - inflict both).
2. I compared it to a thread in the sage advice compendium, which stated that the monk's level 10 feature - Purity of mind, would give it immunity to both the damage and the condition. Ironically, this dwarf character is also a monk, but not level 10 yet. However, I feel like the ruling made by (probably) Jeremy Crawford makes a lot of sense - and to put it to my specific table; that character would have a advantage on saving throws against effects that deal either/or.
3. The comment made by AEDorsay had my agreeing at first, especially about being drunk - to which no official rules exist, and my players have already partifipated in drinking competition, it only made me realise that I should be more 'on point' about remembering how to apply the benefit of dwarven resilience consistently, because I've been fickle about it in the past - to the benefit of my players (accidently giving immunity to the poisoned condition a small number of occassions). Regardless, the 2nd half had me scratch my head a bit - seeing as how the 'half or nothing' wasn't mentioned anywhere I could find at least - and it was followed up with a correction from Quar1on.
4. After reading the aforementioned section from the sage advice compendium, also reading IamSposta's comment strengthened my view on it, and also reminded me of some cool new poisons not from the DMG that would be fun to toy with.
5. Reading David52's comment intrigued me the most with the mention of MMotM's newer wording on the dwarven resilience trait - to where it doesn't grant an advantage on effects requiring saving throws to avoid taking poison damage. Makes me wonder if it was the intent all along from 2014, or just a modern 'nerf'. Perhaps it only works that way on the duergar and the Yuan-ti... Also the math-side explanation was just wonderful to read - makes everything clear to calculate (which would probably help as in the 'heat of the moment' I tend to get things wrong... specifically with a ghast encounter I ran wrong - It hit right at home.
I guess we'll never know about the aforementioned intent for dwarven resilience (that is until the new 2024 core rulebooks come out whenever they do) but until then, this character is going to have an advantage on saving throws against effects the deal poison damage or inflict the poisoned effect (or effects that inflict both).
It does however bring up a final point to which I wanna hear your opinions; How would you treat effects that are similar to the poisoned condition, but do not specifically say the word 'poisoned' - the most basic example of this would be the 'Ash puff' ability from the Ash zombies in the original version of 'Lost Mines of Phandelver'. There are probably more apt examples of this but this is the first one that came to mind. One the one hand - it is more severe than the regular version of the poisoned condition (seeing as how it also inflicts a disadvantage on saving throws instead of just ability checks and attack rolls), But on the other hand, it is read so similarly to a poisone effect, especially with the CON saving throw. When I ran this encounter to my party, that question was brought up, but I ruled that it is a different effect, because it was specifically worded like the poisoned condition but did not actually use that word to describe the effect.
Anyway, Thank you to everyone who contributed!
Sorry about rambling
Would love to hear further opinions on the last matter mentioned in this post
So, generally, I turn to mechanical in situations like this, so I am inclined to treat it as a poison.
In my new game world, I have taken pains to be more specific wit my damage types (and I have a lot of them), because it has proven to make the play more interesting for us (like how weapons break on a nat 1 for us).
I have both Poison and Disease, and they operate very similarly, so I could possibly use Disease for it. I think since disease has a broader impact on the way we use fatigue, I would be more inclined towards Poison, but I can't say for certain because a lot of it is feel and what creates more drama (rule of cool) versus what creates more headaches and requires more work, lol.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I am unfamiliar with the ash zombie from the “original version” of LMoP, so I cannot say for sure. However, that being said (written), if it reads like a poison, venom, or toxin then I would treat it as a poison, if it reads like a disease of some kind then I would not. Make sense?
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This was the correct ruling. Poison is a specific thing in D&D. Mainly, it's one of the damage types listed in Chapter 9 and it is also one of the official Conditions listed in Appendix A so the effect in question pretty much has to use the word "poison" or "Poisoned" somewhere in its description for it to be poison. The Dwarf species has an inherant trait which makes them resistant to poison. In my opinion it would be unbalanced to generalize and extend this attribute to any affect that does not specifically and explicitly declare that it is poison.
I think that it would be a mistake in logic to look at the mechanical consequences of the poisoned condition and then work backwards from there and treat every other instance of these same consequences as if they are also poison. There are many ways that these consequences can be inflicted upon the creature -- there can be similarities and overlap between what various different effects actually do. For example, the Frightened Condition creates some similar consequences. The Restrained Condition might have some overlap. Three levels of Exhaustion also causes similar consequences. There might also be individual descriptions from spells, feats, abilities, class features and so on that cause similar consequences without actually being a poison or a poisonous source. In these examples the similar mechanical consequences are all caused for vastly different reasons by different effects or circumstances and so we obviously should not assume that all of these are poison based only on their similar mechanical effects.
The ash zombie is a good example of this: "These zombies were created by the magical devastation when Mount Hotenow erupted thirty years ago." and: "Ash Puff. The first time the zombie takes damage, any living creature within 5 feet of the zombie must succeed on a DC 10 Constitution saving throw or gain disadvantage on attack rolls, saving throws, and ability checks for 1 minute. A creature can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on it early with a successful save."
In terms of flavor, this is a Zombie that is covered in a layer of ash. When the zombie is hit, a thick cloud of ash puffs out 5 feet in all directions and creatures within this area are all of a sudden coughing and choking on this contaminated air for a while, causing various mechanical disadvantages. This is not a poison in terms of game mechanics -- it's just another type of environmental effect that causes some similar problems for creatures who are affected by it -- so a Dwarf should not be inherently resisting this effect from this source based only on his special species trait of being resistant to poison.
The playtest rules for the Dwarf in the first Unearthed Arcana follow the wording for the MotM Duergar. Obviously, they might change when the new PHB is finally printed, but there’s a good chance that they’ll be very similar.
I'm pretty new at this, but something you wrote sounds false to me so please clarify if you have the time and interest.
"The cloudkill save is half or none"
Wouldn't the damage be half of full damage on a fail and half of half damage on a save?