OK I think I have a question that Sage Advice never actually addressed. If you are standing in an aoe like cloud of daggers or moonbeam, that states you take damage 'if you enter it or start your turn there', you take the dmg for starting your turn there, walk out, grab somebody else and drag them back in, do you get damaged for entering the AOE, or does only your enemy take the damage because you took it for starting your turn there? It feels to me like RAI you should take both the dmg for starting your turn there, AND for reentering it even if it happened during your turn. Seems like an obvious answer to prevent people and monsters from using the AoE to damage others without being damaged themselves for doing it (yes if you have 2 atks you could run in and out twice and only be damaged once by reentry but I figure at that point you've paid the toll). I ask because a caster with PAM and Crusher can knock somebody back in as a reaction and this prompts a knee jerk reaction from people that RAI, there is no double dip on your turn, but I would argue RAI was more concerned with people running in and out and NOT getting the double dip. as I have outlined above. For the record, Crawford has clarified that if multiple people move a creature in and out of the AOE on each of their turns, they can each get one dip per turn but not two, so multiple times being damaged in the same round by the same AOE is allowed.
RAW, it's if you start your turn (which you can only do once per turn) or enter the area (which you can do multiple times per turn) so if you wanted to suicide you could hop in and out of cloud of daggers 5ft. at a time, and dash as well for 60ft movement, and get hit loads of times.
RAI, it's sketchy. I don't think you're supposed to be able to tie someone to a 10ft. pole and push them in and out of a cloud of daggers to get multiple hits from it. I think, as a DM, it would come down to intent - if you intentionally left the cloud and then came back, you get hit twice. If you pull off an awesome combo and use repelling blast on someone to push them through the cloud, then use Lightning Lure to pull them back into the cloud, then yes, that's awesome and you get damage for the work it took to make it happen. If you just grab someone and run in and out of the cloud, I would say you need a con save to keep hold of them as you're going to want to cover your face, and you can't do that whilst holding them. I'd probably also make them attempt to stop you each time you change direction, because they don't want to go in there. But I'd probably still have you and them take damage each time. I would not let you push them in and out of it without getting hurt yourself, though!
Each spell like this may have its own wording within its own description that will impose limitations. For example, you mentioned Cloud of Daggers. The text in that case says "damage when it enters the spell’s area for the first time on a turnor starts its turn there". So in that case a creature only takes the damage once in a turn. Moonbeam has similar wording. Other spells might be worded differently whereby a creature could run in and out or be bounced in and out multiple times within the same turn and have to take the damage every time.
It will depend of the wording of each area of effect spell or feature. In general, if an effect deals damage when a target enter an area for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there, it will potentially take damage up to twice since these are two separate instances occuring. You can for example take damage upon starting your turn inside a moonbeam. area of effect and then take damage after leaving and entering it for the first time. There's a Sage Advice ruling on this very subject.
In summary, a spell like moonbeam affects a creature when the creature passes into the spell’s area of effect and when the creature starts its turn there.
In general, if an effect deals damage when a target enter an area for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there, it will potentially take damage up to twice since these are two separate instances occuring.
Because of the use of the word "or" in the spell description I interpret this to mean that it is one or the other within a single turn and therefore you can only take the damage once in a turn. This might even be what is meant by that Sage Advice that you quoted -- that is a summary of a longer explanation. We might need to review that longer explanation to figure out what they are trying to say. They might be simply meaning that there are two ways that a creature could be damaged -- this way and that way. But not necessarily implying that both could occur in the same turn.
No they are mutually exclusive clause so it's intended that way. While not official ruling, Devs have answered in this sense in the past on Twitter or X;
@flux_fidelbumm Creature enters area of Insect Plague on it's turn, takes damage, then ends turn in the area. Does it take damage again?
@JeremyECrawford Yes.
@Day_Knights "When a creature enters the spells area for the first time on a turn". What does this mean in relation to moonbeam?
@JeremyECrawford Moonbeam is meant to get you when you enter the light (not when it passes over you) or start your turn in it.
Does moonbeam deal damage when you cast it? What about when its effect moves onto a creature?
The answer to both questions is no. Here’s some elaboration on that answer.
Some spells and other game features create an area of effect that does something when a creature enters that area for the first time on a turn or when a creature starts its turn in that area. On the turn when you cast such a spell, you’re primarily setting up hurt for your foes on later turns. Moonbeam, for example, creates a beam of light that can damage a creature who enters the beam or who starts its turn in the beam.
Here are some spells with the same timing as moonbeam for their areas of effect:
Reading the description of any of those spells, you might wonder whether a creature is considered to be entering the spell’s area of effect if the area is created on the creature’s space. And if the area of effect can be moved—as the beam of moonbeam can—does moving it into a creature’s space count as the creature entering the area? Our design intent for such spells is this: a creature enters the area of effect when the creature passes into it. Creating the area of effect on the creature or moving it onto the creature doesn’t count. If the creature is still in the area at the start of its turn, it is subjected to the area’s effect.
Entering such an area of effect needn’t be voluntary, unless a spell says otherwise. You can, therefore, hurl a creature into the area with a spell like thunderwave. We consider that clever play, not an imbalance, so hurl away! Keep in mind, however, that a creature is subjected to such an area of effect only the first time it enters the area on a turn. You can’t move a creature in and out of it to damage it over and over again on the same turn.
In summary, a spell like moonbeam affects a creature when the creature passes into the spell’s area of effect and when the creature starts its turn there. You’re essentially creating a hazard on the battlefield.
It clearly states that you can only take the damage once on any other creatures turn. Now that does leave the possibility of taking the damage twice on your own turn and if anyone wants to argue that that's the RAW answer then I'm not going to argue much but I would say that the RAI answer is that you can only take the damage once on any turn (which is also the ruling I would make).
It clearly states that you can only take the damage once on any other creatures turn. Now that does leave the possibility of taking the damage twice on your own turn and if anyone wants to argue that that's the RAW answer then I'm not going to argue much but I would say that the RAI answer is that you can only take the damage once on any turn (which is also the ruling I would make).
I agree with this. Maximum of once on any turn is also how I interpret the rule itself and also the SAC full text explanation. I believe that they never talk about a scenario where you can take the damage twice on the same turn and are always just discussing that there are two different ways that the damage could occur in general.
As i posted RAW for the first time is only concerning movement, and RAI it's intended to deal damage whenever any of one or the other clauses happen. Spells like moonbeam works
When a creature enters the spell’s area for the first time on a turn
If you think about it, it HAS to work that way because if you can't get damaged one more time it gives you license to run in and out of the aoe dragging people without taking additional damage, as a reward for having the aoe cast on you. It kind of defeats the purpose of casting an aoe on a monster if it can pull two of your friends into it per round to share the damage without at least having to get damaged a second time.
OK I think I have a question that Sage Advice never actually addressed. If you are standing in an aoe like cloud of daggers or moonbeam, that states you take damage 'if you enter it or start your turn there', you take the dmg for starting your turn there, walk out, grab somebody else and drag them back in, do you get damaged for entering the AOE, or does only your enemy take the damage because you took it for starting your turn there? It feels to me like RAI you should take both the dmg for starting your turn there, AND for reentering it even if it happened during your turn. Seems like an obvious answer to prevent people and monsters from using the AoE to damage others without being damaged themselves for doing it (yes if you have 2 atks you could run in and out twice and only be damaged once by reentry but I figure at that point you've paid the toll). I ask because a caster with PAM and Crusher can knock somebody back in as a reaction and this prompts a knee jerk reaction from people that RAI, there is no double dip on your turn, but I would argue RAI was more concerned with people running in and out and NOT getting the double dip. as I have outlined above. For the record, Crawford has clarified that if multiple people move a creature in and out of the AOE on each of their turns, they can each get one dip per turn but not two, so multiple times being damaged in the same round by the same AOE is allowed.
RAW, it's if you start your turn (which you can only do once per turn) or enter the area (which you can do multiple times per turn) so if you wanted to suicide you could hop in and out of cloud of daggers 5ft. at a time, and dash as well for 60ft movement, and get hit loads of times.
RAI, it's sketchy. I don't think you're supposed to be able to tie someone to a 10ft. pole and push them in and out of a cloud of daggers to get multiple hits from it. I think, as a DM, it would come down to intent - if you intentionally left the cloud and then came back, you get hit twice. If you pull off an awesome combo and use repelling blast on someone to push them through the cloud, then use Lightning Lure to pull them back into the cloud, then yes, that's awesome and you get damage for the work it took to make it happen. If you just grab someone and run in and out of the cloud, I would say you need a con save to keep hold of them as you're going to want to cover your face, and you can't do that whilst holding them. I'd probably also make them attempt to stop you each time you change direction, because they don't want to go in there. But I'd probably still have you and them take damage each time. I would not let you push them in and out of it without getting hurt yourself, though!
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Each spell like this may have its own wording within its own description that will impose limitations. For example, you mentioned Cloud of Daggers. The text in that case says "damage when it enters the spell’s area for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there". So in that case a creature only takes the damage once in a turn. Moonbeam has similar wording. Other spells might be worded differently whereby a creature could run in and out or be bounced in and out multiple times within the same turn and have to take the damage every time.
It will depend of the wording of each area of effect spell or feature. In general, if an effect deals damage when a target enter an area for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there, it will potentially take damage up to twice since these are two separate instances occuring. You can for example take damage upon starting your turn inside a moonbeam. area of effect and then take damage after leaving and entering it for the first time. There's a Sage Advice ruling on this very subject.
Because of the use of the word "or" in the spell description I interpret this to mean that it is one or the other within a single turn and therefore you can only take the damage once in a turn. This might even be what is meant by that Sage Advice that you quoted -- that is a summary of a longer explanation. We might need to review that longer explanation to figure out what they are trying to say. They might be simply meaning that there are two ways that a creature could be damaged -- this way and that way. But not necessarily implying that both could occur in the same turn.
No they are mutually exclusive clause so it's intended that way. While not official ruling, Devs have answered in this sense in the past on Twitter or X;
This is the full text from the SAC.
It clearly states that you can only take the damage once on any other creatures turn. Now that does leave the possibility of taking the damage twice on your own turn and if anyone wants to argue that that's the RAW answer then I'm not going to argue much but I would say that the RAI answer is that you can only take the damage once on any turn (which is also the ruling I would make).
I agree with this. Maximum of once on any turn is also how I interpret the rule itself and also the SAC full text explanation. I believe that they never talk about a scenario where you can take the damage twice on the same turn and are always just discussing that there are two different ways that the damage could occur in general.
Thank you thank you thank you for the quote Plaguescarred! I KNEW there had to be SOMETHING on this.
https://dnd.wizards.com/sage-advice/compendium-november-2020
"In summary, a spell like moonbeam affects a creature when the creature passes into the spell's area of effect AND when the creature starts it's turn there."
If you think about it, it HAS to work that way because if you can't get damaged one more time it gives you license to run in and out of the aoe dragging people without taking additional damage, as a reward for having the aoe cast on you. It kind of defeats the purpose of casting an aoe on a monster if it can pull two of your friends into it per round to share the damage without at least having to get damaged a second time.