A spell cast is a class X spell if it's cast with class X's casting stat. All spells you have learned specifically from the class's preparation slots are cast with that stat. (If you have two classes with the same stat, you have to go entirely on the prep slot.)
Since magic item spells pretty much always have their own built-in casting modifiers or specify a stat to use, they're pretty much always not a class spell for purposes of your abilities. If it does tell you to use your casting stat, then it would count. (This is not "it tells you to use a stat that happens to be your casting stat".)
No, this isn't how it works. The class of the spell is not dependent on the stat used, it's the other way around. The class of the spell determines which stat you use and which spellcasting focus is allowed. And this ONLY applies when using a Spellcasting class Feature to cast the spell since every one of those features explicitly specifies which class list to pull the spells from and which stat is used.
Is there a functional difference?
As for the multi-class rule being horrendous -- maybe it's not that bad really. But it does lead to this drawback where you've earned the experience for a character level up and now you are burning some of the benefits of that level up to learn a spell that you've already learned previously on a previous level up. Assuming that you want to be able to cast the spell both ways. If not, then there really is no inefficiency, it's just weird. Like, yup, I've learned that spell, but not really. It's just clunky at best. But yeah, it's sort of consistent with some of the other rules and maybe it's not as bad as I was thinking at first. Maybe it's just plain bad but not horrendous.
I don't think people multiclass in order to cast their current spells with a different stat. They multiclass to get new features.
Is it weird in that specific case? Sure. Is it bad? Meh. Maybe it screws over somebody who's doing something particularly odd in their multiclassing. I won't lose any sleep over it, and wouldn't even if I were the person responsible for the rules. (There's plenty of other things I'd be losing sleep over in that case.)
This is my understanding of what is happening. If you are a Wizard and you level up your Wizard class, the Wizard Spellcasting class Feature within that Wizard class explicitly specifies that you can permanently "learn" spells upon level up by choosing them from the Wizard Spells list. By pulling that spell from the Wizard Spells list, you have learned that "version" of the spell -- the Wizard spell. Later, when you prepare the spell for battle, you again use the Wizard Spellcasting class Feature which specifies that you are preparing "Wizard spells" from your spellbook -- those spells were pulled from the Wizard spell list. When you cast the spell "as a Wizard", you are using that same class Feature to cast one of those prepared spells.
Later, you might multiclass into a Sorcerer. In order to cast a spell "as a Sorcerer", I would be using the Sorcerer's Spellcasting class Feature. However, that Spellcasting class Feature explicitly states that the spells used by that Feature are pulled from the Sorcerer spell list. That's a different "version" of the spell. The Sorcerer spell. If I use my existing Wizard Spellcasting class Feature to cast a spell that has already been learned from the Wizard spell list, I would not be able to use any of the rules and features specified in the Sorcerer Spellcasting class Feature while casting that spell because that spell was not learned from the Sorcerer Spells list. The spell that's being cast is a Wizard spell and not a Sorcerer spell.
But again, this only applies when using the Spellcasting class Features to cast spells because those Features explicitly specify which class's Spells list to pull the spell from. These rules do not apply when casting a spell in another way. When casting Magic Missile from a Wand of Magic Missiles, it is unspecified if the spell comes from the Wizard Spells list or from the Sorcerer Spells list and therefore it is unspecified whether or not the spell is a Wizard Spell or a Sorcerer Spell (or both, or neither).
Edit: this gives rise to the question "so, if I prepare magic missile in both wizard and sorcerer slots, do I get wild magic, enhanced evocation, both, or neither?"
It would depend if Magic Missile was learned as a Wizard or Sorcerer. Sorcerer don't prepare spell, they just cast spell they know using their spell slot which is specifically distinguished when multiclassing,t; so if
Singleclassed: You cast a sorcerer spell you know using your spell slot.
Multiclassed: You cast a sorcerer spell you know using your spell slot. Each spell you know and prepare is associated with one of your classes.
You cast a wizard spell you know using your spell slot. Each spell you know and prepare is associated with one of your classes.
Right. Assuming you can learn the spell twice and are able to cast the spell as a Wizard and also as a Sorcerer, you would have to choose one when casting the spell since you are using a specific class's Spellcasting class Feature to cast the spell -- the appropriate spellcasting ability modifier is then chosen based on this, the type of spellcasting focus which can be used is determined based on this and so on. So, in that case it's one or the other, your choice.
First of all, D&D does sometimes use two identical or very similar phases to mean two clearly mechanically distinct things, so this ain't that strong an argument.
Secondly, your "enough excerpts" is almost entirely the choosing spells to prepare rules, or modifying which spells you can prepare. The rules for what counts as an X spell for preparation and what counts as an X spell when casting do not have to align.
The excerp was mainly for choosing class spell ,When a game feature just refer to a class spell as a reference, i don't think it's dependant on wether you know and spend spell slot to cast it or not but if it's on that class spell list. That's my RAW understanding of it.
This is my understanding of what is happening. If you are a Wizard and you level up your Wizard class, the Wizard Spellcasting class Feature within that Wizard class explicitly specifies that you can permanently "learn" spells upon level up by choosing them from the Wizard Spells list. By pulling that spell from the Wizard Spells list, you have learned that "version" of the spell -- the Wizard spell. Later, when you prepare the spell for battle, you again use the Wizard Spellcasting class Feature which specifies that you are preparing "Wizard spells" from your spellbook -- those spells were pulled from the Wizard spell list. When you cast the spell "as a Wizard", you are using that same class Feature to cast one of those prepared spells.
Later, you might multiclass into a Sorcerer. In order to cast a spell "as a Sorcerer", I would be using the Sorcerer's Spellcasting class Feature. However, that Spellcasting class Feature explicitly states that the spells used by that Feature are pulled from the Sorcerer spell list. That's a different "version" of the spell. The Sorcerer spell. If I use my existing Wizard Spellcasting class Feature to cast a spell that has already been learned from the Wizard spell list, I would not be able to use any of the rules and features specified in the Sorcerer Spellcasting class Feature while casting that spell because that spell was not learned from the Sorcerer Spells list. The spell that's being cast is a Wizard spell and not a Sorcerer spell.
Correct, which leads to:
But again, this only applies when using the Spellcasting class Features to cast spells because those Features explicitly specify which class's Spells list to pull the spell from. These rules do not apply when casting a spell in another way. When casting Magic Missile from a Wand of Magic Missiles, it is unspecified if the spell comes from the Wizard Spells list or from the Sorcerer Spells list and therefore it is unspecified whether or not the spell is a Wizard Spell or a Sorcerer Spell (or both, or neither).
If it's a wizard spell when you get it with your wizard spellcasting feature, and a sorcerer spell when you get it with your sorcerer spellcasting feature, when you get it from a wand, which is neither, it should be neither, should it not?
Right. Assuming you can learn the spell twice and are able to cast the spell as a Wizard and also as a Sorcerer, you would have to choose one when casting the spell since you are using a specific class's Spellcasting class Feature to cast the spell -- the appropriate spellcasting ability modifier is then chosen based on this, the type of spellcasting focus which can be used is determined based on this and so on. So, in that case it's one or the other, your choice.
I assume you can learn the same spell multiple time since you determine what spells you know for each class individually as if you were a single-classed member of that class.
Spells Known and Prepared. You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class.
Edit: this gives rise to the question "so, if I prepare magic missile in both wizard and sorcerer slots, do I get wild magic, enhanced evocation, both, or neither?"
It would depend if Magic Missile was learned as a Wizard or Sorcerer. Sorcerer don't prepare spell, they just cast spell they know using their spell slot which is specifically distinguished when multiclassing,t; so if
Singleclassed: You cast a sorcerer spell you know using your spell slot.
Multiclassed: You cast a sorcerer spell you know using your spell slot. Each spell you know and prepare is associated with one of your classes.
You cast a wizard spell you know using your spell slot. Each spell you know and prepare is associated with one of your classes.
So, if you're multiclassed, is the spell from the wand of Magic Missile a sorcerer spell, a wizard spell, or neither? Since it was prepared (used in the generic sense) by neither class, the answer ought to be neither. Therefore, the same must apply to the singleclassed.
The reason i think this SAC is wrong is because Magic Missile is both a sorcerer and wizard spell regardless if you know it or not, otherwise you wouldn't be able to learn it in the first place when learning more spells as a wizard or sorcerer.
Spell Known of 1st-Level or Higher: You know two 1st-level spells of your choice from the sorcerer spell list. The Spells Known column of the Sorcerer table shows when you learn more sorcerer spells of your choice. Each of these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots.
Spellbook: At 1st level, you have a spellbook containing six 1st-level wizard spells of your choice.
Learning Spells of 1st Level and Higher: Each time you gain a wizard level, you can add two wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook for free.
If it's a wizard spell when you get it with your wizard spellcasting feature, and a sorcerer spell when you get it with your sorcerer spellcasting feature, when you get it from a wand, which is neither, it should be neither, should it not?
So, if you're multiclassed, is the spell from the wand of Magic Missile a sorcerer spell, a wizard spell, or neither? Since it was prepared (used in the generic sense) by neither class, the answer ought to be neither. Therefore, the same must apply to the singleclassed.
You can't extend the logic in that way. Those restrictions (which Spell list you must pull the spell from) are only applicable when casting a spell by using a Spellcasting class Feature. Each of those Features has explicit rules for that specific case. It's sort of a case of specific vs general but the general rule is undefined. The specific rule only applies when casting the spell in that way.
Because the general rule is undefined, I believe that it's up to the DM. In my opinion, the spellcaster should pretty much always be able to choose which spell list he casts the spell from unless he is casting a spell by using a Feature which specifically restricts which Spell list it can come from.
If it's a wizard spell when you get it with your wizard spellcasting feature, and a sorcerer spell when you get it with your sorcerer spellcasting feature, when you get it from a wand, which is neither, it should be neither, should it not?
So, if you're multiclassed, is the spell from the wand of Magic Missile a sorcerer spell, a wizard spell, or neither? Since it was prepared (used in the generic sense) by neither class, the answer ought to be neither. Therefore, the same must apply to the singleclassed.
You can't extend the logic in that way.
Of course you can. Deriving the underlying logic of the system is the only way to figure out the answers to new questions. (Well, ok, there's "make it up arbitrarily", but that leads to poor results.) And yes, sometimes the system ends up being self-contradictory, but that's not the case here.
If a tiefling fighter uses hellish rebuke, is it a warlock spell? If a tiefling bard does it, is it now a bard spell? If the bard levels up enough to take hellish rebuke through magical secrets, does their inherent hellish rebuke suddenly become a bard spell, even though it wasn't before? If they also had a ring that let them cast hellish rebuke once a day, what sort of spell was that before and after they took magical secrets?
Anyway, I said I was done a page ago, and I'm going to stick to it now. Like the logic or not, it's there, and it gives consistent results. They may disagree with your preferences, but they work.
If it's a wizard spell when you get it with your wizard spellcasting feature, and a sorcerer spell when you get it with your sorcerer spellcasting feature, when you get it from a wand, which is neither, it should be neither, should it not?
So, if you're multiclassed, is the spell from the wand of Magic Missile a sorcerer spell, a wizard spell, or neither? Since it was prepared (used in the generic sense) by neither class, the answer ought to be neither. Therefore, the same must apply to the singleclassed.
You can't extend the logic in that way.
Of course you can.
It sort of looks like you read that far and then stopped, because you missed the point being made in that post.
The more we hash this out, the more confident I am that I have the best interpretation now. Let me summarize:
There are many ways that a spell can be cast. Within every possible method, any restrictions beyond what is required by the general rules of the PHB Chapter 10 (Spellcasting) are explicitly stated. If no restriction is mentioned then there is no restriction.
There are two broad categories for how to cast a spell: The spell is cast from the spellcaster's mind or it is cast from a magic item.
Within the category of casting a spell from the spellcaster's mind, this can be done by using one of the many Spellcasting class Features. Or, it can be done by using a Feat, or a Racial Trait or by some other method.
Using one of the Spellcasting class Features to cast a spell is common and powerful -- access to many spells is provided, but there are a lot of restrictions. Typically, the Feature only allows access to spells from a specific class's Spells list. If you use the Feature to learn a spell, it must be from that list. Then, later on, if you use the Feature to prepare and/or cast a spell, it must be one of the spells that you learned from that list. The "version" of the spell is determined by which class's Spells list it came from, which is explicitly specified by the Feature. For example, when using the Wizard's Spellcasting class Feature, you learn spells from the Wizard Spells list so when you do this you have learned a Wizard Spell.
If instead we cast a spell from the spellcaster's mind by using a Feat, the rules and restrictions are different. Consider the Magic Initiate Feat. Now, instead of being restricted to learning spells from one specific class's Spells list, you have a choice. You can learn a spell from the Bard, Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, Warlock, or Wizard Spells list. So, you seemingly have a lot more options. However, in this case there are other restrictions. You can only learn one spell, and it is restricted to being a 1st Level spell (and also two cantrips). In addition, once you choose a Spells list, you are locked in. The cantrips and the 1st level spell that you learn must all come from that same list. Then, later on, when you cast the spell that you have learned through this Feat, you can use the Feat to cast it instead of using a Spellcasting class Feature. Casting a spell by using this method has its own rules and restrictions that are different from those imposed by any Spellcasting class Feature. For example, the Wizard Spellcasting class Feature explicitly requires the use of spell slots when casting leveled spells. Casting a spell with this Feat does not impose this restriction, so spell slots are not required. Instead, when casting a spell with this Feat, "you can cast the spell once at its lowest level, and you must finish a long rest before you can cast it in this way again." Those are rules and restrictions which do not apply to any Spellcasting class Feature.
If a tiefling fighter uses hellish rebuke, is it a warlock spell? If a tiefling bard does it, is it now a bard spell? If the bard levels up enough to take hellish rebuke through magical secrets, does their inherent hellish rebuke suddenly become a bard spell, even though it wasn't before? If they also had a ring that let them cast hellish rebuke once a day, what sort of spell was that before and after they took magical secrets?
This brings up another method of casting spells -- casting spells via a Racial Trait. Again, any additional rules and restrictions on spellcasting by using this method are explicitly specified by the method itself. Any rule which might appear within a Spellcasting class Feature does not apply here -- we are not using that method, we are using the method provided by a Racial Trait.
The Tiefling Racial Trait called "Infernal Legacy" does not specify any restrictions for which spell list a spell must be pulled from in order to cast it with this Trait. Therefore, you can use this Trait to cast a spell from any spell list -- essentially, this Trait allows you to cast any spell in the game. EXCEPT, there is another pretty big restriction. The list of the actual spells that you are allowed to cast by using this Trait is severely limited -- Only thaumaturgy, hellish rebuke, and darkness are accessible via this Trait. BUT, you can cast any "version" of these spells that you want since that is not restricted by the Trait. Only the name of the spells are restricted. Other casting restrictions are similar to the Magic Initiate Feat above -- no spell slots required, but you can only cast each leveled spell once at a specific spell level and then you need to finish a long rest before doing so again.
So, if a Tiefling Fighter uses the Racial Trait to cast Hellish Rebuke, he has the option to choose any "version" of that spell, including the Warlock version. The same is true when a Tiefling Bard does this.
In the case of the Bard's Magical Secrets, you may choose to learn Hellish Rebuke using the rules and restrictions of this Feature. After learning the spell in this way, it counts as a known Bard spell for you. Mechanically, this means that you have learned the "Bard version" of the spell as if you pulled it from the Bard Spells list, even though Hellish Rebuke doesn't actually appear on that list. This makes it a Bard Spell that you can cast using the Bard's Spellcasting class Feature, if desired. Or, alternatively, you can cast that spell by using your Racial Trait and only the above rules and restrictions for the Racial Trait apply. So, in this case, you can cast the spell in two different ways, using two different methods, and you can potentially cast two different "versions" of the spell depending on the method used -- the Bard spell or the Warlock spell.
Finally, if they also had a ring that allowed this character to cast Hellish Rebuke once per day, then they would have access to a 3rd method of casting that spell. This 3rd spellcasting method (casting a spell from a magic item) has it's own rules and restrictions that are separate from the rules and restrictions of the other spellcasting methods. In this case, there is no restriction on which Spells list the spell must be pulled from, so you can choose any list where it appears, including the Warlock Spells list. In this case, the major restriction is that the item is only capable of casting this specific spell -- but it can be any "version" of that spell, including the Warlock spell. This is true before and after Magical Secrets.
This takes us all the way back around to the original question from the thread. The Wand of Magic Missiles. Casting a spell from a magic item is its own method of spellcasting which has its own rules and restrictions that are separate from any other spellcasting method. Often the item description itself will impose additional rules and restrictions. In this case, there is no restriction about which Spell list the Magic Missile spell must be pulled from, so the spellcaster has the option to choose any list on which it appears. So, you can cast any "version" of Magic Missile -- the Wizard Spell, the Sorcerer Spell, or any other version of it that appears on a class's Spells list. The major restrictions are that you can only cast Magic Missile as well as the other restrictions regarding the limited number of charges and the requirements for upcasting and so on. None of the rules and restrictions for any other method of spellcasting applies.
DDB actually provides an easy answer to the question of "Is it a wizard spell?", since every spell on your character sheet indicates how you got it
If it doesn't say 'Wizard' underneath the spell name, it's not a Wizard spell
For example, my tabaxi wizard Chasing Waterfalls (now retired) has the Fey Touched feat. If I look at his 2nd-level spells, magic mouth is listed as a Wizard spell, but misty step is listed as a Fey Touched (Intelligence) spell
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That's an interesting feature of the character sheet but maybe that's just information specifying how you got it? It's unclear if that information could also be used to determine if the listed spell is a Wizard spell.
Fey Touched is written a bit differently than a lot of other Feats since it does specify that you learn the spell but it doesn't specify which Spells list you learn it from. To me, this could mean that you get to pick which Spells list you learn it from and then it always comes from that list whenever you cast it by using the Feat. But that's pretty clunky. Other Feats have language just like that spelled out within the description but this one doesn't. Are you saying that it's possible to learn a version of a spell that doesn't appear on any of the class's Spells lists? I'm not too familiar with Tasha's or some of the other source books -- are there more examples like this?
Similar to the Fey Touched feat, Tieflings get spells from their Infernal Legacy trait. They are not specified as belonging to one class list or another and no class spell list includes all of the granted spells.
Personally I only considered spells learned/prepared via a class trait as belonging to a class. But I don't think there is anything wrong with allowing a spell cast via a non-class feature to count as a class spell for any/all class spell lists it appears on.
Also, I now have the image of a wizard casting Booming Blade from a spell scroll and clubbing a goblin with the scroll as a result XD.
The Infernal Legacy trait has already been discussed quite a bit. That's significantly different than Fey Touched because it allows you to cast certain spells directly. You never learn the spells. Although, looking back at it, I guess the cantrip is considered "known" so you would have to have learned that one I suppose. But when you can cast spells directly it's easier to imagine that you are just choosing whichever version of the spell you want on the fly. But learning a spell is different -- there should be a defined source of the spell that's being learned and then that's the version that gets cast. Contrast Fey Touched with Feats such as Magic Initiate and Artificer Initiate -- in those cases the spells are learned but it is specified by the Feat which list the spells are learned from. I'm just curious if there are other examples of Feats or other spellcasting methods where it is specified that a spell is learned but it is unspecified which list the spell is learned from.
If we check those spells from Racial trait, the bottom will reveal classes because D&D Beyond indicate sources by way of annex coding but it's not a rule source though.
Checking the original print version in the Player's Handbook, there's a spell lists of the spellcasting classes for reference.
If we check those spells from Racial trait, the bottom will reveal classes because D&D Beyond indicate sources by way of annex coding but it's not a rule source though.
Checking the original print version in the Player's Handbook, there's a spell lists of the spellcasting classes for reference.
RAI, it seems pretty clear to me that "wizard evocation spell" is supposed to mean "evocation spell you learned as a wizard" and not "evocation spell on the wizard list" simply because the extra qualifier would be effectively meaningless otherwise
Sculpt Spells doesn't talk about "wizard" evocation spells, for instance
Sculpt Spells
Beginning at 2nd level, you can create pockets of relative safety within the effects of your evocation spells. When you cast an evocation spell that affects other creatures that you can see, you can choose a number of them equal to 1 + the spell’s level. The chosen creatures automatically succeed on their saving throws against the spell, and they take no damage if they would normally take half damage on a successful save.
Consider Order of Scribes too, which talks about "wizard spells [cast] with a spell slot" on Awakened Spellbook
When you cast a wizard spell with a spell slot, you can temporarily replace its damage type with a type that appears in another spell in your spellbook, which magically alters the spell’s formula for this casting only. The latter spell must be of the same level as the spell slot you expend.
That's clearly aimed at limiting its use to spells that are actually in your spellbook. "Wizard spell" = "learned as a wizard", not "happens to be on the wizard list too"
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Referring to class spell as to mean "on class list" makes more sense than "learned as a class" as that definition makes no sense for things such as Arcane Trickster, Eldritch Knight, Boon of Spell Mastery etc...
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Is there a functional difference?
I don't think people multiclass in order to cast their current spells with a different stat. They multiclass to get new features.
Is it weird in that specific case? Sure. Is it bad? Meh. Maybe it screws over somebody who's doing something particularly odd in their multiclassing. I won't lose any sleep over it, and wouldn't even if I were the person responsible for the rules. (There's plenty of other things I'd be losing sleep over in that case.)
This is my understanding of what is happening. If you are a Wizard and you level up your Wizard class, the Wizard Spellcasting class Feature within that Wizard class explicitly specifies that you can permanently "learn" spells upon level up by choosing them from the Wizard Spells list. By pulling that spell from the Wizard Spells list, you have learned that "version" of the spell -- the Wizard spell. Later, when you prepare the spell for battle, you again use the Wizard Spellcasting class Feature which specifies that you are preparing "Wizard spells" from your spellbook -- those spells were pulled from the Wizard spell list. When you cast the spell "as a Wizard", you are using that same class Feature to cast one of those prepared spells.
Later, you might multiclass into a Sorcerer. In order to cast a spell "as a Sorcerer", I would be using the Sorcerer's Spellcasting class Feature. However, that Spellcasting class Feature explicitly states that the spells used by that Feature are pulled from the Sorcerer spell list. That's a different "version" of the spell. The Sorcerer spell. If I use my existing Wizard Spellcasting class Feature to cast a spell that has already been learned from the Wizard spell list, I would not be able to use any of the rules and features specified in the Sorcerer Spellcasting class Feature while casting that spell because that spell was not learned from the Sorcerer Spells list. The spell that's being cast is a Wizard spell and not a Sorcerer spell.
But again, this only applies when using the Spellcasting class Features to cast spells because those Features explicitly specify which class's Spells list to pull the spell from. These rules do not apply when casting a spell in another way. When casting Magic Missile from a Wand of Magic Missiles, it is unspecified if the spell comes from the Wizard Spells list or from the Sorcerer Spells list and therefore it is unspecified whether or not the spell is a Wizard Spell or a Sorcerer Spell (or both, or neither).
It would depend if Magic Missile was learned as a Wizard or Sorcerer. Sorcerer don't prepare spell, they just cast spell they know using their spell slot which is specifically distinguished when multiclassing,t; so if
Singleclassed: You cast a sorcerer spell you know using your spell slot.
Multiclassed: You cast a sorcerer spell you know using your spell slot. Each spell you know and prepare is associated with one of your classes.
You cast a wizard spell you know using your spell slot. Each spell you know and prepare is associated with one of your classes.
Right. Assuming you can learn the spell twice and are able to cast the spell as a Wizard and also as a Sorcerer, you would have to choose one when casting the spell since you are using a specific class's Spellcasting class Feature to cast the spell -- the appropriate spellcasting ability modifier is then chosen based on this, the type of spellcasting focus which can be used is determined based on this and so on. So, in that case it's one or the other, your choice.
The excerp was mainly for choosing class spell ,When a game feature just refer to a class spell as a reference, i don't think it's dependant on wether you know and spend spell slot to cast it or not but if it's on that class spell list. That's my RAW understanding of it.
Correct, which leads to:
If it's a wizard spell when you get it with your wizard spellcasting feature, and a sorcerer spell when you get it with your sorcerer spellcasting feature, when you get it from a wand, which is neither, it should be neither, should it not?
I assume you can learn the same spell multiple time since you determine what spells you know for each class individually as if you were a single-classed member of that class.
So, if you're multiclassed, is the spell from the wand of Magic Missile a sorcerer spell, a wizard spell, or neither? Since it was prepared (used in the generic sense) by neither class, the answer ought to be neither. Therefore, the same must apply to the singleclassed.
The reason i think this SAC is wrong is because Magic Missile is both a sorcerer and wizard spell regardless if you know it or not, otherwise you wouldn't be able to learn it in the first place when learning more spells as a wizard or sorcerer.
Indeed Magic Missile can also become a cleric spell for Arcane Cleric and an artificer spells for Armorer Artificer.
You can't extend the logic in that way. Those restrictions (which Spell list you must pull the spell from) are only applicable when casting a spell by using a Spellcasting class Feature. Each of those Features has explicit rules for that specific case. It's sort of a case of specific vs general but the general rule is undefined. The specific rule only applies when casting the spell in that way.
Because the general rule is undefined, I believe that it's up to the DM. In my opinion, the spellcaster should pretty much always be able to choose which spell list he casts the spell from unless he is casting a spell by using a Feature which specifically restricts which Spell list it can come from.
Of course you can. Deriving the underlying logic of the system is the only way to figure out the answers to new questions. (Well, ok, there's "make it up arbitrarily", but that leads to poor results.) And yes, sometimes the system ends up being self-contradictory, but that's not the case here.
If a tiefling fighter uses hellish rebuke, is it a warlock spell? If a tiefling bard does it, is it now a bard spell? If the bard levels up enough to take hellish rebuke through magical secrets, does their inherent hellish rebuke suddenly become a bard spell, even though it wasn't before? If they also had a ring that let them cast hellish rebuke once a day, what sort of spell was that before and after they took magical secrets?
Anyway, I said I was done a page ago, and I'm going to stick to it now. Like the logic or not, it's there, and it gives consistent results. They may disagree with your preferences, but they work.
It sort of looks like you read that far and then stopped, because you missed the point being made in that post.
The more we hash this out, the more confident I am that I have the best interpretation now. Let me summarize:
There are many ways that a spell can be cast. Within every possible method, any restrictions beyond what is required by the general rules of the PHB Chapter 10 (Spellcasting) are explicitly stated. If no restriction is mentioned then there is no restriction.
There are two broad categories for how to cast a spell: The spell is cast from the spellcaster's mind or it is cast from a magic item.
Within the category of casting a spell from the spellcaster's mind, this can be done by using one of the many Spellcasting class Features. Or, it can be done by using a Feat, or a Racial Trait or by some other method.
Using one of the Spellcasting class Features to cast a spell is common and powerful -- access to many spells is provided, but there are a lot of restrictions. Typically, the Feature only allows access to spells from a specific class's Spells list. If you use the Feature to learn a spell, it must be from that list. Then, later on, if you use the Feature to prepare and/or cast a spell, it must be one of the spells that you learned from that list. The "version" of the spell is determined by which class's Spells list it came from, which is explicitly specified by the Feature. For example, when using the Wizard's Spellcasting class Feature, you learn spells from the Wizard Spells list so when you do this you have learned a Wizard Spell.
If instead we cast a spell from the spellcaster's mind by using a Feat, the rules and restrictions are different. Consider the Magic Initiate Feat. Now, instead of being restricted to learning spells from one specific class's Spells list, you have a choice. You can learn a spell from the Bard, Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, Warlock, or Wizard Spells list. So, you seemingly have a lot more options. However, in this case there are other restrictions. You can only learn one spell, and it is restricted to being a 1st Level spell (and also two cantrips). In addition, once you choose a Spells list, you are locked in. The cantrips and the 1st level spell that you learn must all come from that same list. Then, later on, when you cast the spell that you have learned through this Feat, you can use the Feat to cast it instead of using a Spellcasting class Feature. Casting a spell by using this method has its own rules and restrictions that are different from those imposed by any Spellcasting class Feature. For example, the Wizard Spellcasting class Feature explicitly requires the use of spell slots when casting leveled spells. Casting a spell with this Feat does not impose this restriction, so spell slots are not required. Instead, when casting a spell with this Feat, "you can cast the spell once at its lowest level, and you must finish a long rest before you can cast it in this way again." Those are rules and restrictions which do not apply to any Spellcasting class Feature.
Next, it's time to address this question:
This brings up another method of casting spells -- casting spells via a Racial Trait. Again, any additional rules and restrictions on spellcasting by using this method are explicitly specified by the method itself. Any rule which might appear within a Spellcasting class Feature does not apply here -- we are not using that method, we are using the method provided by a Racial Trait.
The Tiefling Racial Trait called "Infernal Legacy" does not specify any restrictions for which spell list a spell must be pulled from in order to cast it with this Trait. Therefore, you can use this Trait to cast a spell from any spell list -- essentially, this Trait allows you to cast any spell in the game. EXCEPT, there is another pretty big restriction. The list of the actual spells that you are allowed to cast by using this Trait is severely limited -- Only thaumaturgy, hellish rebuke, and darkness are accessible via this Trait. BUT, you can cast any "version" of these spells that you want since that is not restricted by the Trait. Only the name of the spells are restricted. Other casting restrictions are similar to the Magic Initiate Feat above -- no spell slots required, but you can only cast each leveled spell once at a specific spell level and then you need to finish a long rest before doing so again.
So, if a Tiefling Fighter uses the Racial Trait to cast Hellish Rebuke, he has the option to choose any "version" of that spell, including the Warlock version. The same is true when a Tiefling Bard does this.
In the case of the Bard's Magical Secrets, you may choose to learn Hellish Rebuke using the rules and restrictions of this Feature. After learning the spell in this way, it counts as a known Bard spell for you. Mechanically, this means that you have learned the "Bard version" of the spell as if you pulled it from the Bard Spells list, even though Hellish Rebuke doesn't actually appear on that list. This makes it a Bard Spell that you can cast using the Bard's Spellcasting class Feature, if desired. Or, alternatively, you can cast that spell by using your Racial Trait and only the above rules and restrictions for the Racial Trait apply. So, in this case, you can cast the spell in two different ways, using two different methods, and you can potentially cast two different "versions" of the spell depending on the method used -- the Bard spell or the Warlock spell.
Finally, if they also had a ring that allowed this character to cast Hellish Rebuke once per day, then they would have access to a 3rd method of casting that spell. This 3rd spellcasting method (casting a spell from a magic item) has it's own rules and restrictions that are separate from the rules and restrictions of the other spellcasting methods. In this case, there is no restriction on which Spells list the spell must be pulled from, so you can choose any list where it appears, including the Warlock Spells list. In this case, the major restriction is that the item is only capable of casting this specific spell -- but it can be any "version" of that spell, including the Warlock spell. This is true before and after Magical Secrets.
This takes us all the way back around to the original question from the thread. The Wand of Magic Missiles. Casting a spell from a magic item is its own method of spellcasting which has its own rules and restrictions that are separate from any other spellcasting method. Often the item description itself will impose additional rules and restrictions. In this case, there is no restriction about which Spell list the Magic Missile spell must be pulled from, so the spellcaster has the option to choose any list on which it appears. So, you can cast any "version" of Magic Missile -- the Wizard Spell, the Sorcerer Spell, or any other version of it that appears on a class's Spells list. The major restrictions are that you can only cast Magic Missile as well as the other restrictions regarding the limited number of charges and the requirements for upcasting and so on. None of the rules and restrictions for any other method of spellcasting applies.
DDB actually provides an easy answer to the question of "Is it a wizard spell?", since every spell on your character sheet indicates how you got it
If it doesn't say 'Wizard' underneath the spell name, it's not a Wizard spell
For example, my tabaxi wizard Chasing Waterfalls (now retired) has the Fey Touched feat. If I look at his 2nd-level spells, magic mouth is listed as a Wizard spell, but misty step is listed as a Fey Touched (Intelligence) spell
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
That's an interesting feature of the character sheet but maybe that's just information specifying how you got it? It's unclear if that information could also be used to determine if the listed spell is a Wizard spell.
Fey Touched is written a bit differently than a lot of other Feats since it does specify that you learn the spell but it doesn't specify which Spells list you learn it from. To me, this could mean that you get to pick which Spells list you learn it from and then it always comes from that list whenever you cast it by using the Feat. But that's pretty clunky. Other Feats have language just like that spelled out within the description but this one doesn't. Are you saying that it's possible to learn a version of a spell that doesn't appear on any of the class's Spells lists? I'm not too familiar with Tasha's or some of the other source books -- are there more examples like this?
Similar to the Fey Touched feat, Tieflings get spells from their Infernal Legacy trait. They are not specified as belonging to one class list or another and no class spell list includes all of the granted spells.
Personally I only considered spells learned/prepared via a class trait as belonging to a class. But I don't think there is anything wrong with allowing a spell cast via a non-class feature to count as a class spell for any/all class spell lists it appears on.
Also, I now have the image of a wizard casting Booming Blade from a spell scroll and clubbing a goblin with the scroll as a result XD.
The Infernal Legacy trait has already been discussed quite a bit. That's significantly different than Fey Touched because it allows you to cast certain spells directly. You never learn the spells. Although, looking back at it, I guess the cantrip is considered "known" so you would have to have learned that one I suppose. But when you can cast spells directly it's easier to imagine that you are just choosing whichever version of the spell you want on the fly. But learning a spell is different -- there should be a defined source of the spell that's being learned and then that's the version that gets cast. Contrast Fey Touched with Feats such as Magic Initiate and Artificer Initiate -- in those cases the spells are learned but it is specified by the Feat which list the spells are learned from. I'm just curious if there are other examples of Feats or other spellcasting methods where it is specified that a spell is learned but it is unspecified which list the spell is learned from.
If we check those spells from Racial trait, the bottom will reveal classes because D&D Beyond indicate sources by way of annex coding but it's not a rule source though.
Checking the original print version in the Player's Handbook, there's a spell lists of the spellcasting classes for reference.
RAI, it seems pretty clear to me that "wizard evocation spell" is supposed to mean "evocation spell you learned as a wizard" and not "evocation spell on the wizard list" simply because the extra qualifier would be effectively meaningless otherwise
Sculpt Spells doesn't talk about "wizard" evocation spells, for instance
Consider Order of Scribes too, which talks about "wizard spells [cast] with a spell slot" on Awakened Spellbook
That's clearly aimed at limiting its use to spells that are actually in your spellbook. "Wizard spell" = "learned as a wizard", not "happens to be on the wizard list too"
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Referring to class spell as to mean "on class list" makes more sense than "learned as a class" as that definition makes no sense for things such as Arcane Trickster, Eldritch Knight, Boon of Spell Mastery etc...