Ok I am questioning this feat in regards to fall damage example a basic pit trap or reverse gravity trap. If a pit trap damage is resistable then shouldn't all fall damage be? I mean let's say you are investigating an abandoned rune let's say I am blindfolded I can not therefore can not tell the difference between a pit trap or just an open pit. While very funny the idea you are safer blindfolded kinda borders on silly land. I am not opposed to letting the feat resisted all fall damage but I am not sure if this is correct
Alert to the hidden traps and secret doors found in many dungeons, you gain the following benefits:
You have advantage on Wisdom (Perception) and Intelligence (Investigation) checks made to detect the presence of secret doors.
You have advantage on saving throws made to avoid or resist traps.
You have resistance to the damage dealt by traps.
Traveling at a fast pace doesn't impose the normal −5 penalty on your passive Wisdom (Perception) score.
You have advantage on saving throws made to avoid/resist traps. Avoid: Not falling into the pitfall trap. Resist: Figuring out how to stop the moving wall from crushing you.
You have resistance to damage made by traps. Example: Rogue walks into a poison dart trap. He would normally take 12 piercing damage and a additional 5 poison damage. But with dungeon delver he takes 6 piercing damage and 2 poison damage.
I guess my question is an open pit really just a poorly concealed trap? What qualifies it to be a trap let's say I am wondering a temple riddle with pits if I can't see the pit is it a trap? How much concealment matters if I had a familiar with running ahead putting pieces of leaves and braches on a pit is it now a trap? At what point is a pit a pit trap ?
I guess my question is an open pit really just a poorly concealed trap? What qualifies it to be a trap let's say I am wondering a temple riddle with pits if I can't see the pit is it a trap? How much concealment matters if I had a familiar with running ahead putting pieces of leaves and braches on a pit is it now a trap? At what point is a pit a pit trap ?
Question of the week: "What is a trap?" A pit is not a trap. It's a hole. If leaves fall by it and they slightly conceal it? Then it's still a pit. If somebody made said pit and covered it? Now it's a trap made to catch or even kill somebody. If trap is activated. It's a pit again.
Yes, if a familiar ran ahead and covered a pit purposefully then it's a trap. Its a very fine line for pit traps.
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Monster Fact of the Day: Tarrasque
Tarrasque's have a magical regeneration and are able to reflect spells back at its enemies
Praise Jeff with Your Hole Heart and Soul with the Sign ofDoomJOY to Come!!!!!
I guess I don't like the up to interpretation of it. Example I am searching room a for secret doors party member b scouts the next room he sees a 100ft drop but can see a door at the bottom we need to get down he casts silent image concealing the cliffdrop I get to the room and walk straight into his illusion this is a trap I take half damage had I instead just jumped off the cliff I would have taken full damage. How can me not being aware of a 100ft sheer drop be less dangerous then me being aware of it and willing jumping ?
Your making my brain hurt. Look its what the feat says. If you don't like it go into the homebrew feat maker and make a duplicate and take out what you don't like. D&D isn't a perfect simulator. You can't expect the wording to be super exact.
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Monster Fact of the Day: Tarrasque
Tarrasque's have a magical regeneration and are able to reflect spells back at its enemies
Praise Jeff with Your Hole Heart and Soul with the Sign ofDoomJOY to Come!!!!!
I'm sorry I am just frustrated. I mean by this interpretation it means for example if I am playing a paranoid blind character who thinks everyone except his seeing eye bear ( party druid) is out to get them I could say any environmental hazard is a trap. As I would be unaware of the hazard and of the belief it was maliciously there explicitly to get me. I may just ban the feat instead of opening Pandora box.
You said in your post that you're not against resisting the fall damage. The fall damage is part of the trap. Otherwise, the feat is kinda useless. I'd say at least I good percent of starter traps are pitfalls. Its why when I play rogue, I play var human so I can get dungeon delver. It's a good feat. It's not too overpowered compared to lucky and it's also not weak.
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Monster Fact of the Day: Tarrasque
Tarrasque's have a magical regeneration and are able to reflect spells back at its enemies
Praise Jeff with Your Hole Heart and Soul with the Sign ofDoomJOY to Come!!!!!
I would rule that for any bludgeoning damage resulting from a fall in a pit trap or trap with gravity effect is considered to be dealt by it for the purpose of the Dungeon Delver feat.
I guess my question is an open pit really just a poorly concealed trap? What qualifies it to be a trap let's say I am wondering a temple riddle with pits if I can't see the pit is it a trap? How much concealment matters if I had a familiar with running ahead putting pieces of leaves and braches on a pit is it now a trap? At what point is a pit a pit trap ?
Let me answer your first Pandora's Box with a second one. Find Traps is kind of a rules nightmare, but it gives us an at least somewhat functional definition of a trap: "anything that would inflict a sudden or unexpected effect you consider harmful or undesirable, which was specifically intended as such by its creator." We don't have to use this definition for anything other than the Find Traps spell, but lacking any other definition, we may as well see where it leads us.
I would say that an open pit, by this definition, is a trap if it was dug for the specific purpose of people falling into it. Pits dug to collect rainwater or some other function are not traps for this purpose; though they might "inflict a sudden or unexpected effect you consider harmful or undesirable" (falling), unless they are "specifically intended as such by <their> creator", they're not traps for the purpose of Find Traps.
Now: does it make sense for a character with Dungeon Delver to take half damage from falling into an open pit dug as a (bad) trap, but full damage from falling into an equally deep pit dug as a cistern? Absolutely not. And it never, ever will. So you're just gonna have to make the call as to whether it's more important to you to follow the letter of the rules, or to make the game make sense as you interpret sense.
Here's how I would do it: if a character with Dungeon Delver is subjected to something that _might_ be a trap, I would ask them: "Explain to me how your experience with traps could help you avoid this." If they make a convincing argument, they get the benefit. If they don't, they don't. It's pure DM fiat, but sometimes that's just how this game works.
Pit traps are the most line pushing, but I consider the fall damage portion to not be the trap proper, but incidental environmental bonus.
if there are spikes on the bottom you can fall in a way to resist those. You can resist the fall itself.
think if there was a trap where when you stepped on the plate a baseball bat swung out and pummeled you and hopes to knock you into a fire/lava square.
the trap and bat portion you could modify with the feat. if the bat was on fire you could resist that by knowing fire trap chemical how to deflect it best with your better insulated hand , etc.
but the falling into the regular lava is a secondary effect of environmental happenstance and clever use of trap positioning. Your dungeon delving didn’t prepare you for that.
it didn’t prepare you for resisting gravity either.
because it’s a mid meh feat id consider giving the taker resistance to all fall damage too, or reduced by a certain amount / distance like other options.
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Ok I am questioning this feat in regards to fall damage example a basic pit trap or reverse gravity trap. If a pit trap damage is resistable then shouldn't all fall damage be? I mean let's say you are investigating an abandoned rune let's say I am blindfolded I can not therefore can not tell the difference between a pit trap or just an open pit. While very funny the idea you are safer blindfolded kinda borders on silly land. I am not opposed to letting the feat resisted all fall damage but I am not sure if this is correct
You have advantage on saving throws made to avoid/resist traps. Avoid: Not falling into the pitfall trap. Resist: Figuring out how to stop the moving wall from crushing you.
You have resistance to damage made by traps. Example: Rogue walks into a poison dart trap. He would normally take 12 piercing damage and a additional 5 poison damage. But with dungeon delver he takes 6 piercing damage and 2 poison damage.
The fall damage is part of the trap. Its halved.
Monster Fact of the Day: Tarrasque
Tarrasque's have a magical regeneration and are able to reflect spells back at its enemies
Praise Jeff with Your Hole Heart and Soul with the Sign of
DoomJOY to Come!!!!!I guess my question is an open pit really just a poorly concealed trap? What qualifies it to be a trap let's say I am wondering a temple riddle with pits if I can't see the pit is it a trap? How much concealment matters if I had a familiar with running ahead putting pieces of leaves and braches on a pit is it now a trap? At what point is a pit a pit trap ?
Question of the week: "What is a trap?" A pit is not a trap. It's a hole. If leaves fall by it and they slightly conceal it? Then it's still a pit. If somebody made said pit and covered it? Now it's a trap made to catch or even kill somebody. If trap is activated. It's a pit again.
Yes, if a familiar ran ahead and covered a pit purposefully then it's a trap. Its a very fine line for pit traps.
Monster Fact of the Day: Tarrasque
Tarrasque's have a magical regeneration and are able to reflect spells back at its enemies
Praise Jeff with Your Hole Heart and Soul with the Sign of
DoomJOY to Come!!!!!I guess I don't like the up to interpretation of it. Example I am searching room a for secret doors party member b scouts the next room he sees a 100ft drop but can see a door at the bottom we need to get down he casts silent image concealing the cliffdrop I get to the room and walk straight into his illusion this is a trap I take half damage had I instead just jumped off the cliff I would have taken full damage. How can me not being aware of a 100ft sheer drop be less dangerous then me being aware of it and willing jumping ?
Your making my brain hurt. Look its what the feat says. If you don't like it go into the homebrew feat maker and make a duplicate and take out what you don't like. D&D isn't a perfect simulator. You can't expect the wording to be super exact.
Monster Fact of the Day: Tarrasque
Tarrasque's have a magical regeneration and are able to reflect spells back at its enemies
Praise Jeff with Your Hole Heart and Soul with the Sign of
DoomJOY to Come!!!!!I'd say it isn't the fall that you are resisting, it is the landing, which is not part of the trap, per se.
I'm sorry I am just frustrated. I mean by this interpretation it means for example if I am playing a paranoid blind character who thinks everyone except his seeing eye bear ( party druid) is out to get them I could say any environmental hazard is a trap. As I would be unaware of the hazard and of the belief it was maliciously there explicitly to get me. I may just ban the feat instead of opening Pandora box.
You said in your post that you're not against resisting the fall damage. The fall damage is part of the trap. Otherwise, the feat is kinda useless. I'd say at least I good percent of starter traps are pitfalls. Its why when I play rogue, I play var human so I can get dungeon delver. It's a good feat. It's not too overpowered compared to lucky and it's also not weak.
Monster Fact of the Day: Tarrasque
Tarrasque's have a magical regeneration and are able to reflect spells back at its enemies
Praise Jeff with Your Hole Heart and Soul with the Sign of
DoomJOY to Come!!!!!I would rule that for any bludgeoning damage resulting from a fall in a pit trap or trap with gravity effect is considered to be dealt by it for the purpose of the Dungeon Delver feat.
Let me answer your first Pandora's Box with a second one. Find Traps is kind of a rules nightmare, but it gives us an at least somewhat functional definition of a trap: "anything that would inflict a sudden or unexpected effect you consider harmful or undesirable, which was specifically intended as such by its creator." We don't have to use this definition for anything other than the Find Traps spell, but lacking any other definition, we may as well see where it leads us.
I would say that an open pit, by this definition, is a trap if it was dug for the specific purpose of people falling into it. Pits dug to collect rainwater or some other function are not traps for this purpose; though they might "inflict a sudden or unexpected effect you consider harmful or undesirable" (falling), unless they are "specifically intended as such by <their> creator", they're not traps for the purpose of Find Traps.
Now: does it make sense for a character with Dungeon Delver to take half damage from falling into an open pit dug as a (bad) trap, but full damage from falling into an equally deep pit dug as a cistern? Absolutely not. And it never, ever will. So you're just gonna have to make the call as to whether it's more important to you to follow the letter of the rules, or to make the game make sense as you interpret sense.
Here's how I would do it: if a character with Dungeon Delver is subjected to something that _might_ be a trap, I would ask them: "Explain to me how your experience with traps could help you avoid this." If they make a convincing argument, they get the benefit. If they don't, they don't. It's pure DM fiat, but sometimes that's just how this game works.
Thank you this helps a lot.
Pit traps are the most line pushing, but I consider the fall damage portion to not be the trap proper, but incidental environmental bonus.
if there are spikes on the bottom you can fall in a way to resist those. You can resist the fall itself.
think if there was a trap where when you stepped on the plate a baseball bat swung out and pummeled you and hopes to knock you into a fire/lava square.
the trap and bat portion you could modify with the feat.
if the bat was on fire you could resist that by knowing fire trap chemical how to deflect it best with your better insulated hand , etc.
but the falling into the regular lava is a secondary effect of environmental happenstance and clever use of trap positioning. Your dungeon delving didn’t prepare you for that.
it didn’t prepare you for resisting gravity either.
because it’s a mid meh feat id consider giving the taker resistance to all fall damage too, or reduced by a certain amount / distance like other options.