Give that the Hide action is fairly atomic (single action, not part of a move), and a Stealth roll, it's fair to assume that it, itself, doesn't make appreciable noise. But staying hidden requires staying quiet.
Moving once you are hidden (conditional Invisible Condition) would, logically, require an additional Stealth roll, so as to not "make a sound louder than a whisper." Someone's Passive Perception being higher than that Stealth roll would be the most straightforward way for them to "find" you without a Search action (short of DM fiat about someone pointedly staring at your hiding location --- but in combat that probably requires a Search action anyway, since they're ignoring all the other combat around them).
In a regular pitched combat, I'd streamline things and give a hidden person one "free" move action using their Hide roll's value. In most cases that would streamline play to only one Stealth roll per turn, even if they are leaving cover, stabbing someone, and returning to cover to re-hide each turn. (Which itself is fairly risky, given the lack of Disengage and the target(s) needing to be within a half-move of the hiding spot(s).
The context of what? The Hide action? It's quite obvious that the context of the Hide action is to "make unseen and unheard":
The context is "Success gives you the Invisible condition".
I'm curious if you've read any of my past few posts? It's all explained there.
Why do you continue to ignore most of the text that is given for the Hide action? That's becoming sort of baffling.
One of the main things that "success gives you" is explicitly given right at the beginning of the text for the Hide action:
you try to conceal yourself. To do so, you must succeed . . .
There are 5 sentences spread out over 3 paragraphs which make up the text for the Hide action. Continuing to tunnel vision in on only one of those sentences is causing you to severely miss many of the important concepts that are explicitly presented in the text for the Hide action.
Moving once you are hidden (conditional Invisible Condition) would, logically, require an additional Stealth roll, so as to not "make a sound louder than a whisper." Someone's Passive Perception being higher than that Stealth roll would be the most straightforward way for them to "find" you without a Search action (short of DM fiat about someone pointedly staring at your hiding location --- but in combat that probably requires a Search action anyway, since they're ignoring all the other combat around them).
I'm pretty sure that the Stealth roll you make to hide applies to moving as well. At least during the same turn. Can you imagine: PC: "I quietly move toward the enemy..." DM: "Alright, make TWO Stealth checks, one to hide, and one to move quietly afterwards..." Nah, I don't buy it.
The context of what? The Hide action? It's quite obvious that the context of the Hide action is to "make unseen and unheard":
The context is "Success gives you the Invisible condition".
If that's the case, then what's the point of hiding while already being invisible? When you're invisible, enemies can estimate your location and know roughly where you are even if they can't see you. They have disadvantage on their attack roles, but their actions that force a saving throw are unaffected. Are you saying that an enemy would still be able to do all that to a PC who's just taken and succeeded the Hide action? That would make hiding completely useless...
Also, if the enemies can do that, then so can the players. Therefore the DM should never hide enemy tokens from the players, who should always be at least able to estimate the enemies' positions on the map, even if they're invisible and/or hiding
You're reading things into the text that simply aren't there.
In fact, I am doing the exact opposite of this. I am quite literally quoting the exact text word for word.
For example, in my previous post, I wrote this:
One of the main things that "success gives you" is explicitly given right at the beginning of the text for the Hide action:
you try to conceal yourself. To do so, you must succeed . . .
Except for some emphasis added to a few words, the text within the shaded region above is cut-and-pasted 100% word for word straight out of the text, completely unmodified.
On the contrary, in my opinion you are not reading things in the text that simply ARE there. You seem to think that the Hide action is one sentence long. There are more words than that in the text.
I guess if you still aren't seeing it then we can just agree to disagree. The updated text for the Hide action has been sufficiently explained a few times now.
You're reading things into the text that simply aren't there.
In fact, I am doing the exact opposite of this. I am quite literally quoting the exact text word for word.
For example, in my previous post, I wrote this:
One of the main things that "success gives you" is explicitly given right at the beginning of the text for the Hide action:
you try to conceal yourself. To do so, you must succeed . . .
Except for some emphasis added to a few words, the text within the shaded region above is cut-and-pasted 100% word for word straight out of the text, completely unmodified.
On the contrary, in my opinion you are not reading things in the text that simply ARE there. You seem to think that the Hide action is one sentence long. There are more words than that in the text.
I guess if you still aren't seeing it then we can just agree to disagree. The updated text for the Hide action has been sufficiently explained a few times now.
you are talking about conceal yourself as if it is mechanical term. It is not, there is not a conceal in the glossary, or a place where they define conceal. Conceal as he already pointed out has a valid dictionary definition of trying to avoid being seen.
This sentence qould be valid; i concealed myself by casting invisible. Or i concealed myself behind the curtain while singing backup. I heard laughter from someone concealed in darkness. conceal does not necessarily mean being unheard.
and they did not modify that definition in the phb, so thats a weak argument.
there is no part of the hide definition that specifically mentions people being unable to hear you.
don't mention hide disapearing if you speak louder than a whisper, that says nothing about whether people can hear you. As i already established, the dmg says people can hear you if you are trying to be quiet.(which would mean making no noise above a whisper) within 2d6+5 feet. This means, even if you are hidden people can hear you, that does not mean you lose the invsisble condition. You still have advantage /disadvantage/immunity to spells while you are invsible even if people know your general location.
show me, in the hide definition where it says people cant hear you, or that they dont know your location, or anything related.
In fact, I am doing the exact opposite of this. I am quite literally quoting the exact text word for word.
And reading stuff into that text that isn't there. Let's pull apart hide
With the Hide action, you try to conceal yourself. (Conceal is not defined in the text. As such, we can conclude that hiding must match some definition of conceal, but not which one.)
To do so.... (Nothing about this sentence states what it means to be hidden. It may be useful for deriving the intent of the rules).
On a successful check, you have the Invisible condition while hidden. (Hidden is also not defined in the text, other than the fact it grants the invisible condition. The text does not forbid it having additional meaning, but also does not require it to have additional meaning).
Make note of... (the normal use of the search action is to find something that is concealed. Again, conceal is not defined in the text).
You stop being hidden immediately after any of the following occurs: you make a sound louder than a whisper, an enemy finds you, you make an attack roll, or you cast a spell with a Verbal component (again, nothing about this sentence says what it means to be hidden, though it may be useful for deriving the intent of the rules).
As such, all we know that hiding does is give you the invisible condition. The rules don't forbid it doing more... but they also don't require it to do more.
To conceal something is to hide their presence. It's not limited to sight. When something is concealed, other people do not know that it's there. It's not just invisible. If you have an invisible object on a table, but everybody at the table knows the object is there, then it's not concealed.
Passive Perception: The DM uses this score when determining whether a creature notices something without consciously making a Wisdom (Perception) check.
Search: When you take the Search action, you make a Wisdom check to discern something that isn’t obvious.
Something hidden requires 'noticing something' and isn't 'obvious'. There's a reason the Hide check has a DC attached to detect the Hidden player:
Make note of your check’s total, which is the DC for a creature to find you with a Wisdom (Perception) check.
- Being invisible doesn't mean undetectable. A creature can always estimate the position of another creature (basically know where they are on the grid), if that creature hasn't taken the Hide action to actually conceal their presence. They just have disadvantage on attack rolls against them. That remains true even if you add other means to hinder their senses, like blinding and deafening them. - When a creature hides using the Hide action and succeeds the DC 15 Stealth check, they are considered invisible and hidden, and other creatures are unaware of their presence. Creatures that were previously aware of their presence only know where the creature was before they hid. - While hidden, a creature can move without requiring extra Stealth checks, as they already determined their ability to move quietly when they made the first Stealth check. They only require to make an extra check if they come in the line of sight of another creature, or try to take an action that could be heard, which is then compared to the other creatures' passive perception checks to determine if they can detect the hidden creature. The perception check is made with disadvantage if the hidden creature is in dim light and the perception check is based on sight. - If a hidden creature walk on a noisy surface, makes a sound louder than a whisper, makes an attack or casts a spell with a verbal component, they are no longer hidden to the creatures that can see or hear them (no checks required). - If a creature has Truesight/Blindsight/Tremorsense, it's impossible to hide from them if that sense allows them to see a creature attempting to hide or previously hidden. - If a creature is made invisible by something else than the Hide action (like invisibility spell), line of sight is no longer an issue to stay hidden and their presence concealed. - A creature can take the Search action to reveal the location of hidden creatures in the vicinity. Their perception check is then compared to the result of the roll of the stealth check of the hidden creature to determine its success. This works even if the creature taking the Search action doesn't have line of sight on the hidden creatures. - Since all the aforementioned rules concern either sight or hearing, I'd say that a creature can only detect a hidden and invisible creature by using its hearing. A deafened creature can only detect a hidden creature by using its sight. If circumstances prevent a creature from detecting another one either by sight or hearing (with simultaneous Invisibility and Silence spells, for example), they cannot make a perception check to detect that creature. This doesn't affect the fact that even in these circumstances, they can still estimate the other creature's position if they're not actively hiding. - A creature stays hidden if they cast a spell with a verbal component, or generate any kind of sound, but the creatures its hidden from are deafened.
So you have to be unseen to attempt to become unseen. The moment you are seen, you are no longer unseen.
Does stepping out from cover make you seen? Who knows?
Does leaning out to fire that bow make you seen? Who knows?
My big question, that no one has seemed to answer yet, is this: If I step behind a column (become unseen) in combat, what does taking the Hide Action get me? It seems like all it does is make it so I can't be targeted by things that rely on sight (which I already have by way of the column), gives me advantage on attack rolls and disadvantage to attack me (I'm already unseen, so I already have this via Unseen Attacker/Targets). Does taking the Hide Action mean that if someone walks around the column they still can't see me? Does it mean that if I duck out to attack they can't see me?
Here is what I think: The devs intended Stealth/Hide to never be used in combat in 5.5e. They wanted this to only be out of combat or a setup for combat. This really hampers the Rogue; BA Hide is now pretty useless unless you are trying to run away or actively avoid combat.
Does stepping out from cover make you seen? Who knows?
There's no rule that says you do, so you don't. However, if you come into the line of sight of an enemy, they can make a passive perception check to see you. And if you're in dim light when that happens, they do so at disadvantage.
My big question, that no one has seemed to answer yet, is this: If I step behind a column (become unseen) in combat, what does taking the Hide Action get me? It seems like all it does is make it so I can't be targeted by things that rely on sight (which I already have by way of the column), gives me advantage on attack rolls and disadvantage to attack me (I'm already unseen, so I already have this via Unseen Attacker/Targets). Does taking the Hide Action mean that if someone walks around the column they still can't see me? Does it mean that if I duck out to attack they can't see me?
These questions are all answered by the rules. Taking the Hide action allow you to prevent enemies from being aware of your presence. If you go behind a column and you don't hide, they can't see you, but they know you're there. If you then get out, they can see you get out, and target you as normal. Now, if you go behind a column and you take the Hide action, the enemies can't detect you anymore. They know you're behind the column because they saw you get there, but if you come out, they won't see you come out unless they pass a Perception check against your Stealth roll. And don't forget that if you're in dim light, they'll make that roll with disadvantage! So I'd say that's a huge benefit. Now how often they make that check depends on the DM, but you'll probably have to do it again every time circumstances change, and at least every turn.
Here is what I think: The devs intended Stealth/Hide to never be used in combat in 5.5e. They wanted this to only be out of combat or a setup for combat. This really hampers the Rogue; BA Hide is now pretty useless unless you are trying to run away or actively avoid combat.
The very fact that there are things that allow you to hide as a bonus action in the first place shows that this isn't true. They would have never made this if it hadn't been intended for combat. The problem with Stealth is that it has a shitton of edge cases, and that makes these rules particularly difficult to design. So they made mistakes.
My big question, that no one has seemed to answer yet, is this: If I step behind a column (become unseen) in combat, what does taking the Hide Action get me?
I'd say it depends if there's an enemy or not. In principle, it now requires the attacker guessing your location, which is very easy to do if it saw you step behind the column before hiding.
But if no enemy was present, the difference between a creature standing behind a column in which you can't see but otherwise perceive and one that you don't because it's successfully hidden is huge as you're unaware of it.
So you have to be unseen to attempt to become unseen. The moment you are seen, you are no longer unseen.
Does stepping out from cover make you seen? Who knows?
Does leaning out to fire that bow make you seen? Who knows?
My big question, that no one has seemed to answer yet, is this: If I step behind a column (become unseen) in combat, what does taking the Hide Action get me? It seems like all it does is make it so I can't be targeted by things that rely on sight (which I already have by way of the column), gives me advantage on attack rolls and disadvantage to attack me (I'm already unseen, so I already have this via Unseen Attacker/Targets). Does taking the Hide Action mean that if someone walks around the column they still can't see me? Does it mean that if I duck out to attack they can't see me?
Here is what I think: The devs intended Stealth/Hide to never be used in combat in 5.5e. They wanted this to only be out of combat or a setup for combat. This really hampers the Rogue; BA Hide is now pretty useless unless you are trying to run away or actively avoid combat.
The Rogue's Cunning Action: Hide was always useless (unless using it to escape and evade), the only difference is that now people are realizing it.
If someone is blocked from view by full concealment or full cover, then using the Hide Action represents their active attempt to remain hidden. Standing still behind a pillar is great, but only if the enemy doesn't move. If the enemy moves, the PC must also move to remain on the opposite side of the pillar and quiet - however, in game terms, during combat - you are correct there is no point. You gain nothing by wasting your action to do so. This also explains why only 3/4 cover is needed (your Hide Action represents your attempt to squeeze yourself behind 3/4 cover so it effectively becomes full cover).
Now, if you're running away through brush, taking the Hide Action and using stealth would dampen the noise you are making which would make it harder for the enemy to know exactly where you went (assuming line of sight blocked by full concealment (heavily obscured, or cover, etc.)). They won't know if you kept running or are hiding in place, if you beat their rolls to find you - without the Hide Action, they could easily keep track of your direction and rough distance even without line of sight due to the amount of noise you would be making.
Of course many would then point out that if you're a rogue trying to escape, instead of taking the Hide Action as a bonus action, taking Dash is the better choice because it allows you to outrun the enemy who likely has a much slower movement rate. Even if the enemy has a 40 speed, your 30 speed Rogue that Moves, Dashes, Bonus Action Dashes will outrun them - so why hide at all?
Hide in all versions of 5e is for out of combat situations or setting up ambushes, once a fight starts hiding is almost always pointless. An exception would be if using Invisibility or Greater Invisibility. Invisibility doesn't mean they don't know where you are, they just can't see you. But imagine this scenario. ROgue is under the effects of Greater Invisibility. ROgue attacks (with advantage for being invisible), then Bonus Action: Hide to move quietly, then moves to a new location.
Now the enemy has no idea where the Rogue is (even if dropping AoE, they could still guess the wrong spot or direction and miss the rogue). No weapon attack is likely to hit the Rogue (the enemy would need to successfully guess the Rogue's location first). Let's assume a 50x50 room, with two combatants - the rogue and the enemy. A Rogue with Greatuer Invis, who attacks, then hides, can then move into any corner of the room which means there's a good chance the enemy can't hit the rogue even with an AoE attack without hitting themselves as well.
That's the only case I can make for when Hiding during combat makes sense.
This also explains why only 3/4 cover is needed (your Hide Action represents your attempt to squeeze yourself behind 3/4 cover so it effectively becomes full cover).
If that was true, you would be considered having full cover after successfully hiding while having 3/4 cover. This is not the case, so no.
Keep in mind that there's no rule that says that coming into the line of sight of an enemy automatically reveals your position. You have the invisible condition while hidden, and to end your hiding, an enemy has to FIND you, not just see you.
Keep in mind that there's no rule that says that coming into the line of sight of an enemy automatically reveals your position.
In 2014, it revealed you if you "advanced" on them. "In combat, most creatures stay alert for signs of danger all around, so if you come out of hiding and approach a creature, it usually sees you." Meaning you could snipe or sneak off, but not approach and melee sneak attack.
However, that rule is not present in 2024. It's been replaced with a special version of the invisible condition. In combat, you now only need not alert them to you presence (making noise, etc). Thus, new stealth rolls for movement, or not (because you've already rolled stealth).
To conceal something is to hide their presence. It's not limited to sight. When something is concealed, other people do not know that it's there. It's not just invisible. If you have an invisible object on a table, but everybody at the table knows the object is there, then it's not concealed.
Conceal has multiple definitions, and "hidden from sight" is one of them (5e doesn't define concealed, but both both 3.x and 4.x used it for what 5e calls 'obscured', and that usage was in fact far more standard than what 5e does -- the military has historically defined concealment as something that block vision but not attacks -- https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/21-75/Ch1.htm -- and wargames tend to do the same. Given that D&D combat is basically a small unit tactical wargame, assuming a meaning appropriate to wargaming is hardly a stretch of logic).
This also explains why only 3/4 cover is needed (your Hide Action represents your attempt to squeeze yourself behind 3/4 cover so it effectively becomes full cover).
If that was true, you would be considered having full cover after successfully hiding while having 3/4 cover. This is not the case, so no.
Keep in mind that there's no rule that says that coming into the line of sight of an enemy automatically reveals your position. You have the invisible condition while hidden, and to end your hiding, an enemy has to FIND you, not just see you.
So an enemy can see you and not find you?!? But if they can see you, they don't need to find you, because you lose all the advantages of Invisible if the enemy can see you.
And how does taking the Hide action to be quiet make it so they can no longer see you when you duck out of cover? It seems like everyone is arguing that Hide really just makes you move silently, but IT DOES NOT SAY THAT ANYWHERE!! The only affect you get by Hiding is the Invisible condition which is explicitly, exclusively sight based.
Invisible is an effect you get in addition to being Hidden. Being Hidden is what creates the DC to be discovered. If an opponent can't defeat that DC, they don't notice you. Doesn't matter if you're Invisible or not. Doesn't matter if there's line of sight or not. The rules are pretty explicit about what defeats Hiding and those conditions aren't part of it.
It's also worth noting for those who believe Hiding in combat isn't a thing: "Fog of War. You exploit the distractions of battle, gaining Advantage on any Dexterity (Stealth) check you make as part of the Hide action during combat."
That's a pretty strange rule to write if it's a game where Hiding in combat isn't legal.
So you have to be unseen to attempt to become unseen. The moment you are seen, you are no longer unseen.
More like, you have to be unseen to attempt to become hidden. Not the same thing.
And becoming hidden makes you...*checks notes*...oh yes! Invisible aka unseen. In 5e, being Invisible meant that you could Hide without cover. In 5.5e Hiding makes you Invisible.
So if 3/4 cover makes you unseen, then I don't need to take the Hide action to gain the Unseen Attacker advantage.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Give that the Hide action is fairly atomic (single action, not part of a move), and a Stealth roll, it's fair to assume that it, itself, doesn't make appreciable noise. But staying hidden requires staying quiet.
Moving once you are hidden (conditional Invisible Condition) would, logically, require an additional Stealth roll, so as to not "make a sound louder than a whisper." Someone's Passive Perception being higher than that Stealth roll would be the most straightforward way for them to "find" you without a Search action (short of DM fiat about someone pointedly staring at your hiding location --- but in combat that probably requires a Search action anyway, since they're ignoring all the other combat around them).
In a regular pitched combat, I'd streamline things and give a hidden person one "free" move action using their Hide roll's value. In most cases that would streamline play to only one Stealth roll per turn, even if they are leaving cover, stabbing someone, and returning to cover to re-hide each turn. (Which itself is fairly risky, given the lack of Disengage and the target(s) needing to be within a half-move of the hiding spot(s).
I'm curious if you've read any of my past few posts? It's all explained there.
Why do you continue to ignore most of the text that is given for the Hide action? That's becoming sort of baffling.
One of the main things that "success gives you" is explicitly given right at the beginning of the text for the Hide action:
There are 5 sentences spread out over 3 paragraphs which make up the text for the Hide action. Continuing to tunnel vision in on only one of those sentences is causing you to severely miss many of the important concepts that are explicitly presented in the text for the Hide action.
Yes. I just don't agree with any of them. You're reading things into the text that simply aren't there.
I'm pretty sure that the Stealth roll you make to hide applies to moving as well. At least during the same turn. Can you imagine:
PC: "I quietly move toward the enemy..."
DM: "Alright, make TWO Stealth checks, one to hide, and one to move quietly afterwards..."
Nah, I don't buy it.
If that's the case, then what's the point of hiding while already being invisible? When you're invisible, enemies can estimate your location and know roughly where you are even if they can't see you. They have disadvantage on their attack roles, but their actions that force a saving throw are unaffected. Are you saying that an enemy would still be able to do all that to a PC who's just taken and succeeded the Hide action?
That would make hiding completely useless...
Also, if the enemies can do that, then so can the players. Therefore the DM should never hide enemy tokens from the players, who should always be at least able to estimate the enemies' positions on the map, even if they're invisible and/or hiding
In fact, I am doing the exact opposite of this. I am quite literally quoting the exact text word for word.
For example, in my previous post, I wrote this:
One of the main things that "success gives you" is explicitly given right at the beginning of the text for the Hide action:
Except for some emphasis added to a few words, the text within the shaded region above is cut-and-pasted 100% word for word straight out of the text, completely unmodified.
On the contrary, in my opinion you are not reading things in the text that simply ARE there. You seem to think that the Hide action is one sentence long. There are more words than that in the text.
I guess if you still aren't seeing it then we can just agree to disagree. The updated text for the Hide action has been sufficiently explained a few times now.
you are talking about conceal yourself as if it is mechanical term. It is not, there is not a conceal in the glossary, or a place where they define conceal. Conceal as he already pointed out has a valid dictionary definition of trying to avoid being seen.
This sentence qould be valid; i concealed myself by casting invisible. Or i concealed myself behind the curtain while singing backup. I heard laughter from someone concealed in darkness. conceal does not necessarily mean being unheard.
and they did not modify that definition in the phb, so thats a weak argument.
there is no part of the hide definition that specifically mentions people being unable to hear you.
don't mention hide disapearing if you speak louder than a whisper, that says nothing about whether people can hear you. As i already established, the dmg says people can hear you if you are trying to be quiet.(which would mean making no noise above a whisper) within 2d6+5 feet. This means, even if you are hidden people can hear you, that does not mean you lose the invsisble condition. You still have advantage /disadvantage/immunity to spells while you are invsible even if people know your general location.
show me, in the hide definition where it says people cant hear you, or that they dont know your location, or anything related.
And reading stuff into that text that isn't there. Let's pull apart hide
You stop being hidden immediately after any of the following occurs: you make a sound louder than a whisper, an enemy finds you, you make an attack roll, or you cast a spell with a Verbal component (again, nothing about this sentence says what it means to be hidden, though it may be useful for deriving the intent of the rules).
As such, all we know that hiding does is give you the invisible condition. The rules don't forbid it doing more... but they also don't require it to do more.
To conceal something is to hide their presence. It's not limited to sight.
When something is concealed, other people do not know that it's there. It's not just invisible.
If you have an invisible object on a table, but everybody at the table knows the object is there, then it's not concealed.
Passive Perception: The DM uses this score when determining whether a creature notices something without consciously making a Wisdom (Perception) check.
Search: When you take the Search action, you make a Wisdom check to discern something that isn’t obvious.
Something hidden requires 'noticing something' and isn't 'obvious'. There's a reason the Hide check has a DC attached to detect the Hidden player:
Make note of your check’s total, which is the DC for a creature to find you with a Wisdom (Perception) check.
I think you're right. I've taken a step back and re-read all the rules I know that are related to stealth:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/phb-2024/playing-the-game#Covertable
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/phb-2024/playing-the-game#Hiding
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/phb-2024/playing-the-game#Skills (Stealth & Perception)
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/br-2024/rules-glossary#HideAction
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/br-2024/rules-glossary#SearchAction
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/br-2024/rules-glossary#PassivePerception
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/br-2024/rules-glossary#LightlyObscured
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/br-2024/rules-glossary#HeavilyObscured
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/br-2024/rules-glossary#InvisibleCondition
What I've derived from them is:
- Being invisible doesn't mean undetectable. A creature can always estimate the position of another creature (basically know where they are on the grid), if that creature hasn't taken the Hide action to actually conceal their presence. They just have disadvantage on attack rolls against them. That remains true even if you add other means to hinder their senses, like blinding and deafening them.
- When a creature hides using the Hide action and succeeds the DC 15 Stealth check, they are considered invisible and hidden, and other creatures are unaware of their presence. Creatures that were previously aware of their presence only know where the creature was before they hid.
- While hidden, a creature can move without requiring extra Stealth checks, as they already determined their ability to move quietly when they made the first Stealth check. They only require to make an extra check if they come in the line of sight of another creature, or try to take an action that could be heard, which is then compared to the other creatures' passive perception checks to determine if they can detect the hidden creature. The perception check is made with disadvantage if the hidden creature is in dim light and the perception check is based on sight.
- If a hidden creature walk on a noisy surface, makes a sound louder than a whisper, makes an attack or casts a spell with a verbal component, they are no longer hidden to the creatures that can see or hear them (no checks required).
- If a creature has Truesight/Blindsight/Tremorsense, it's impossible to hide from them if that sense allows them to see a creature attempting to hide or previously hidden.
- If a creature is made invisible by something else than the Hide action (like invisibility spell), line of sight is no longer an issue to stay hidden and their presence concealed.
- A creature can take the Search action to reveal the location of hidden creatures in the vicinity. Their perception check is then compared to the result of the roll of the stealth check of the hidden creature to determine its success. This works even if the creature taking the Search action doesn't have line of sight on the hidden creatures.
- Since all the aforementioned rules concern either sight or hearing, I'd say that a creature can only detect a hidden and invisible creature by using its hearing. A deafened creature can only detect a hidden creature by using its sight. If circumstances prevent a creature from detecting another one either by sight or hearing (with simultaneous Invisibility and Silence spells, for example), they cannot make a perception check to detect that creature. This doesn't affect the fact that even in these circumstances, they can still estimate the other creature's position if they're not actively hiding.
- A creature stays hidden if they cast a spell with a verbal component, or generate any kind of sound, but the creatures its hidden from are deafened.
So you have to be unseen to attempt to become unseen. The moment you are seen, you are no longer unseen.
Does stepping out from cover make you seen? Who knows?
Does leaning out to fire that bow make you seen? Who knows?
My big question, that no one has seemed to answer yet, is this: If I step behind a column (become unseen) in combat, what does taking the Hide Action get me? It seems like all it does is make it so I can't be targeted by things that rely on sight (which I already have by way of the column), gives me advantage on attack rolls and disadvantage to attack me (I'm already unseen, so I already have this via Unseen Attacker/Targets). Does taking the Hide Action mean that if someone walks around the column they still can't see me? Does it mean that if I duck out to attack they can't see me?
Here is what I think: The devs intended Stealth/Hide to never be used in combat in 5.5e. They wanted this to only be out of combat or a setup for combat. This really hampers the Rogue; BA Hide is now pretty useless unless you are trying to run away or actively avoid combat.
More like, you have to be unseen to attempt to become hidden. Not the same thing.
There's no rule that says you do, so you don't. However, if you come into the line of sight of an enemy, they can make a passive perception check to see you. And if you're in dim light when that happens, they do so at disadvantage.
The rules say that you can hide with only 3/4 cover. If you lean out to fire your bow, you still have 3/4 cover, so you stay hidden.
These questions are all answered by the rules. Taking the Hide action allow you to prevent enemies from being aware of your presence. If you go behind a column and you don't hide, they can't see you, but they know you're there. If you then get out, they can see you get out, and target you as normal.
Now, if you go behind a column and you take the Hide action, the enemies can't detect you anymore. They know you're behind the column because they saw you get there, but if you come out, they won't see you come out unless they pass a Perception check against your Stealth roll. And don't forget that if you're in dim light, they'll make that roll with disadvantage! So I'd say that's a huge benefit. Now how often they make that check depends on the DM, but you'll probably have to do it again every time circumstances change, and at least every turn.
The very fact that there are things that allow you to hide as a bonus action in the first place shows that this isn't true. They would have never made this if it hadn't been intended for combat. The problem with Stealth is that it has a shitton of edge cases, and that makes these rules particularly difficult to design. So they made mistakes.
I'd say it depends if there's an enemy or not. In principle, it now requires the attacker guessing your location, which is very easy to do if it saw you step behind the column before hiding.
But if no enemy was present, the difference between a creature standing behind a column in which you can't see but otherwise perceive and one that you don't because it's successfully hidden is huge as you're unaware of it.
The Rogue's Cunning Action: Hide was always useless (unless using it to escape and evade), the only difference is that now people are realizing it.
If someone is blocked from view by full concealment or full cover, then using the Hide Action represents their active attempt to remain hidden. Standing still behind a pillar is great, but only if the enemy doesn't move. If the enemy moves, the PC must also move to remain on the opposite side of the pillar and quiet - however, in game terms, during combat - you are correct there is no point. You gain nothing by wasting your action to do so. This also explains why only 3/4 cover is needed (your Hide Action represents your attempt to squeeze yourself behind 3/4 cover so it effectively becomes full cover).
Now, if you're running away through brush, taking the Hide Action and using stealth would dampen the noise you are making which would make it harder for the enemy to know exactly where you went (assuming line of sight blocked by full concealment (heavily obscured, or cover, etc.)). They won't know if you kept running or are hiding in place, if you beat their rolls to find you - without the Hide Action, they could easily keep track of your direction and rough distance even without line of sight due to the amount of noise you would be making.
Of course many would then point out that if you're a rogue trying to escape, instead of taking the Hide Action as a bonus action, taking Dash is the better choice because it allows you to outrun the enemy who likely has a much slower movement rate. Even if the enemy has a 40 speed, your 30 speed Rogue that Moves, Dashes, Bonus Action Dashes will outrun them - so why hide at all?
Hide in all versions of 5e is for out of combat situations or setting up ambushes, once a fight starts hiding is almost always pointless. An exception would be if using Invisibility or Greater Invisibility. Invisibility doesn't mean they don't know where you are, they just can't see you. But imagine this scenario. ROgue is under the effects of Greater Invisibility. ROgue attacks (with advantage for being invisible), then Bonus Action: Hide to move quietly, then moves to a new location.
Now the enemy has no idea where the Rogue is (even if dropping AoE, they could still guess the wrong spot or direction and miss the rogue). No weapon attack is likely to hit the Rogue (the enemy would need to successfully guess the Rogue's location first). Let's assume a 50x50 room, with two combatants - the rogue and the enemy. A Rogue with Greatuer Invis, who attacks, then hides, can then move into any corner of the room which means there's a good chance the enemy can't hit the rogue even with an AoE attack without hitting themselves as well.
That's the only case I can make for when Hiding during combat makes sense.
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
If that was true, you would be considered having full cover after successfully hiding while having 3/4 cover. This is not the case, so no.
Keep in mind that there's no rule that says that coming into the line of sight of an enemy automatically reveals your position. You have the invisible condition while hidden, and to end your hiding, an enemy has to FIND you, not just see you.
In 2014, it revealed you if you "advanced" on them. "In combat, most creatures stay alert for signs of danger all around, so if you come out of hiding and approach a creature, it usually sees you." Meaning you could snipe or sneak off, but not approach and melee sneak attack.
However, that rule is not present in 2024. It's been replaced with a special version of the invisible condition. In combat, you now only need not alert them to you presence (making noise, etc). Thus, new stealth rolls for movement, or not (because you've already rolled stealth).
Conceal has multiple definitions, and "hidden from sight" is one of them (5e doesn't define concealed, but both both 3.x and 4.x used it for what 5e calls 'obscured', and that usage was in fact far more standard than what 5e does -- the military has historically defined concealment as something that block vision but not attacks -- https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/21-75/Ch1.htm -- and wargames tend to do the same. Given that D&D combat is basically a small unit tactical wargame, assuming a meaning appropriate to wargaming is hardly a stretch of logic).
So an enemy can see you and not find you?!? But if they can see you, they don't need to find you, because you lose all the advantages of Invisible if the enemy can see you.
And how does taking the Hide action to be quiet make it so they can no longer see you when you duck out of cover? It seems like everyone is arguing that Hide really just makes you move silently, but IT DOES NOT SAY THAT ANYWHERE!! The only affect you get by Hiding is the Invisible condition which is explicitly, exclusively sight based.
Invisible is an effect you get in addition to being Hidden. Being Hidden is what creates the DC to be discovered. If an opponent can't defeat that DC, they don't notice you. Doesn't matter if you're Invisible or not. Doesn't matter if there's line of sight or not. The rules are pretty explicit about what defeats Hiding and those conditions aren't part of it.
It's also worth noting for those who believe Hiding in combat isn't a thing: "Fog of War. You exploit the distractions of battle, gaining Advantage on any Dexterity (Stealth) check you make as part of the Hide action during combat."
That's a pretty strange rule to write if it's a game where Hiding in combat isn't legal.
And becoming hidden makes you...*checks notes*...oh yes! Invisible aka unseen. In 5e, being Invisible meant that you could Hide without cover. In 5.5e Hiding makes you Invisible.
So if 3/4 cover makes you unseen, then I don't need to take the Hide action to gain the Unseen Attacker advantage.