Say i'm playing a Monk/Barbarian Plasmoid from spelljammer and i've got an opponent in a grapple...
Amorphous
You can squeeze through a space as narrow as 1 inch wide, provided you are wearing and carrying nothing. You have advantage on ability checks you make to initiate or escape a grapple.
I want to squeeze myself into the creature's mouth and start hurting them from the inside.
The reason i'm asking is because the plasmoid seems almost built to be used this way to be able to squeeze into small openings, has resistance to acid (ie. stomach acid), can hold their breath for up to an hour and doesn't seem to have a form unless they choose to look humanoid, otherwise they're a blob.
So If i came to your table and said i want to do this, would you let it happen?
No. You can’t make yourself occupy less volume. You’re no more capable of sticking your pseudopod down someone’s throat than a human is of sticking their fingers down someone’s throat, which is simply not something that can reasonably happen outside of some very specific circumstances.
what if i classify myself as small? plasmoids can be medium or small. If memory serves, there are creatures who are are large size that can swallow medium creatures which indicates that you only need to be one size larger to do that, granted those creatures usually have large mouths like the giant toad, but i feel that is solved by the amorphous property of the plasmoid.
Say i'm playing a Monk/Barbarian Plasmoid from spelljammer and i've got an opponent in a grapple...
Amorphous
You can squeeze through a space as narrow as 1 inch wide, provided you are wearing and carrying nothing. You have advantage on ability checks you make to initiate or escape a grapple.
I want to squeeze myself into the creature's mouth and start hurting them from the inside.
The reason i'm asking is because the plasmoid seems almost built to be used this way to be able to squeeze into small openings, has resistance to acid (ie. stomach acid), can hold their breath for up to an hour and doesn't seem to have a form unless they choose to look humanoid, otherwise they're a blob.
So If i came to your table and said i want to do this, would you let it happen?
I would 100% let you deal unarmed strike damage to a creature you're grappling and flavor it as being done in the narrative style you're describing.
What you propose is very cool, but there are no mechanics to do it. Obviously you can do a workaround like the one proposed by quindraco. It could even be simulated with other alternatives. However, no rule you apply is going to be satisfactory simply because being able to get inside someone should have devastating effects.
D&D is essentially a mechanical game. When a player proposes things like this to me, the first thing I try is to find a way to do it within the mechanics. If we don't find a satisfactory solution, I invite they to join another of my games with much more narrative systems. Games where players have much more freedom to get out of the mechanics and narrate whatever they want. And I know a lot of people are going to tell me that with D&D you can play more narrative and blah blah blah. But really, in my point of view, if you allow too much freedom outside of the mechanics, the game breaks down and stops being fun. Because it is not designed for that, it's that simple. Also, there are many games on the market that by design do allow you to be more narrative and do whatever cool thing you can think of. I love those games, like I love D&D. Why complicate your life trying to peel an apple with a screwdriver when you have a knife? Each game has its own style, and offers different gaming experiences. That is something that many TRPG players do not understand, and insist on peeling the apple with the screwdriver.
But back to the topic of the thread, I repeat that the problem is that you are trying to do something for which there are no mechanics. Any mechanic you apply to simulate that will either be unsatisfying or too powerful. That's my opinion.
what if i classify myself as small? plasmoids can be medium or small. If memory serves, there are creatures who are are large size that can swallow medium creatures which indicates that you only need to be one size larger to do that, granted those creatures usually have large mouths like the giant toad, but i feel that is solved by the amorphous property of the plasmoid.
Large creatures can swallow medium creatures only when they have powers specifically worded to allow them to do so. The applicable rules are:
you can move through a hostile creature’s space only if the creature is at least two sizes larger or smaller than you.
Whether a creature is a friend or an enemy, you can’t willingly end your move in its space.
So unless you have abilities that specifically override these, you must abide by them. Amorphous is not specific enough to do this. What you can do as a small blob is move into a large creature's space, attack it, and move back out. You can flavor that as going in their mouth and out their ears if you like. I'll also second quin that you can flavor regular attacks however you like, you just won't get any mechanical benefit by doing so.
I would rule that you are allowed to grapple them and attempt to do damage to them, as per normal rules, with the only change being a flavor change of you attempting to do what you describe.
No extra damage, no advantage besides what you normally get for grapple.
Say i'm playing a Monk/Barbarian Plasmoid from spelljammer and i've got an opponent in a grapple...
Amorphous
You can squeeze through a space as narrow as 1 inch wide, provided you are wearing and carrying nothing. You have advantage on ability checks you make to initiate or escape a grapple.
I want to squeeze myself into the creature's mouth and start hurting them from the inside.
The reason i'm asking is because the plasmoid seems almost built to be used this way to be able to squeeze into small openings, has resistance to acid (ie. stomach acid), can hold their breath for up to an hour and doesn't seem to have a form unless they choose to look humanoid, otherwise they're a blob.
So If i came to your table and said i want to do this, would you let it happen?
I'd have to ask what makes you think a 1" wide pseudo pod would have the strength to force open a creature's mouth and then force its way down its throat which may well narrow to less than 1" wide? A typical human throat is actually less than 1" wide and is surrounded by thick loops of smooth muscles. Those muscles are designed to either swallow or expel something going down or caught in the throat.
The rules for plasmoids do not describe such an ability and I could see a 1" wide pseudo pod being too small/narrow to exert significant force.
So, personally, I wouldn't allow it in a game I was running. I'd classify it as one of those "Wow! I wonder if this works?!" ideas that doesn't when you really think about it.
I mean, a creature isn't going to just let you pour yourself into them, they're going to fight that; even if you rolled a check to force their mouth open, how long can you keep it open? Can they bite you in half and just slice half your hit-points off?
This is the kind of thing I might allow in an unusual circumstance, but I can't see allowing it as a standard practice, as it just makes things more complicated. Plus we've got a precedent for monsters having an explicit swallow ability if that's something they can do.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
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My problem with this scenario is the Plasmoid is an amorphous creature from all intents and purposes does not separate for various logical reasons. If I was a being like, I would have a fear of putting my parts into another creatures mouth. If they bite down then I will lose part of me. If I start with 200 ounces of ooze, unless I can reabsorb that ooze if broken off I would be very jealous of my 200 ounces of ooze.
Plasmoids are very guarded of their bodies when unconscious, which tells me they don't want to lose any ounce of their mass. If one would give away any of their mass, I would assume that was one of the greatest gifts that they can offer. So in my mind a plasmoid first would never put itself into a creatures mouth, and then you would have to logically figure out what happens to the part of you in said creatures mouth if they just instinctually bite down.
So this would be a hard no for me, unless I am missing something.
Edit: Actually you made me think about Groot in Guardians. A more useful thing would be if you had the strength in your pseudopod to grapple the nose, and if you could solidify in a specific way, actually do rather painful damage that would affect very low hit point damage, but would add effects like reduced vision or/and smell, and maybe a temporary stun depending on the target.
I think SagaTympana brings up an excellent point about volume. Even if you were small, you still couldn't fit the whole of your body in the mouth, throat, and stomach of a medium sized creature; part of you would be hanging out. This would leave you vulnerable to potential attacks, and would almost certainly not qualify you for full-cover. You may also want to make sure to keep whatever makes up your eyes, ears, and mouth outside of your combatant to be aware of what's going on outside and communicate what's going on inside.
Rationalizing damage capacity is interesting. There is no reference to how much outward force a plasmoid can exert when expanding or shaping their bodies. They have to be able to exert at the very least slightly more pressure than the atmosphere, which is around 15psi on earth. We do have reference of their pseudopods being able to carry 10 pounds. If we assume by "extrude" that the height of their pseudopod is 1" based on their Amorphous trait, then the volume of a pseudopod is somewhere close to 1830 cubic centimeters. An average human has a volume of about 62,000. That means there's about 34 pseudopods in a medium sized plasmoid. Knowing each has a relative strength of 10 pounds, you could theorize that a fully realized plasmoid could generate enough force to hold 340 lbs. Which, when building a Strength 17 medium plasmoid, falls within the range of their carry (255 lbs) and push, drag, or lift (510 lbs) limits.
While professional boxers can generate over 770 psi, 340 psi is still more than twice an average human who can typically generate between 120 and 150 psi. Although, what may be even scarier is that it only takes 100psi to tear human skin. Three times that number being exerted on your insides would surely do some serious damage.
However, if DMs still don't want to allow for or deal with the damage, there is also the element of asphyxiation. You'd have to manage to stay in place for a good chunk of time, but you could slowly "choke" your victim to death. This could be a really dark form of torture. Perhaps a really twisted plasmoid headsman or executioner should make an appearance in my next campaign... "...You awake to a strange gurgling sound coming from your stomach..."
You can squeeze through an opening as narrow as 1 inch.
If your opponent closes their mouth, there is no opening.
/discussion =)
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I would say, it would be broken against most opponents. Also not really possible, because they can just close their mouth or refuse to swallow you. You can open your mouth and pour water in it, but block it off from enterig your esophagus or lungs, so you would end up trying to shove yourselfe inside its mouth, not fitting in. Basically just pushing your arm or head inside their mouth. The nose or ear would be a more accessable entrance, but they are too small (less than 1 inch / 2cm for humans).
The point of a blade or a spear or even a finger is also small enough to enter an opponent's mouth or put out their eye, but there is no ability to simply 'do so' no matter how well you roll to hit.
Thus, it follows that Plasmoids could not simply 'do that' to another unwilling and conscious creature.
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Say i'm playing a Monk/Barbarian Plasmoid from spelljammer and i've got an opponent in a grapple...
Amorphous
You can squeeze through a space as narrow as 1 inch wide, provided you are wearing and carrying nothing. You have advantage on ability checks you make to initiate or escape a grapple.
I want to squeeze myself into the creature's mouth and start hurting them from the inside.
The reason i'm asking is because the plasmoid seems almost built to be used this way to be able to squeeze into small openings, has resistance to acid (ie. stomach acid), can hold their breath for up to an hour and doesn't seem to have a form unless they choose to look humanoid, otherwise they're a blob.
So If i came to your table and said i want to do this, would you let it happen?
No. You can’t make yourself occupy less volume. You’re no more capable of sticking your pseudopod down someone’s throat than a human is of sticking their fingers down someone’s throat, which is simply not something that can reasonably happen outside of some very specific circumstances.
what if i classify myself as small? plasmoids can be medium or small. If memory serves, there are creatures who are are large size that can swallow medium creatures which indicates that you only need to be one size larger to do that, granted those creatures usually have large mouths like the giant toad, but i feel that is solved by the amorphous property of the plasmoid.
I would 100% let you deal unarmed strike damage to a creature you're grappling and flavor it as being done in the narrative style you're describing.
What you propose is very cool, but there are no mechanics to do it. Obviously you can do a workaround like the one proposed by quindraco. It could even be simulated with other alternatives. However, no rule you apply is going to be satisfactory simply because being able to get inside someone should have devastating effects.
D&D is essentially a mechanical game. When a player proposes things like this to me, the first thing I try is to find a way to do it within the mechanics. If we don't find a satisfactory solution, I invite they to join another of my games with much more narrative systems. Games where players have much more freedom to get out of the mechanics and narrate whatever they want. And I know a lot of people are going to tell me that with D&D you can play more narrative and blah blah blah. But really, in my point of view, if you allow too much freedom outside of the mechanics, the game breaks down and stops being fun. Because it is not designed for that, it's that simple. Also, there are many games on the market that by design do allow you to be more narrative and do whatever cool thing you can think of. I love those games, like I love D&D. Why complicate your life trying to peel an apple with a screwdriver when you have a knife? Each game has its own style, and offers different gaming experiences. That is something that many TRPG players do not understand, and insist on peeling the apple with the screwdriver.
But back to the topic of the thread, I repeat that the problem is that you are trying to do something for which there are no mechanics. Any mechanic you apply to simulate that will either be unsatisfying or too powerful. That's my opinion.
Large creatures can swallow medium creatures only when they have powers specifically worded to allow them to do so. The applicable rules are:
So unless you have abilities that specifically override these, you must abide by them. Amorphous is not specific enough to do this. What you can do as a small blob is move into a large creature's space, attack it, and move back out. You can flavor that as going in their mouth and out their ears if you like. I'll also second quin that you can flavor regular attacks however you like, you just won't get any mechanical benefit by doing so.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I would rule that you are allowed to grapple them and attempt to do damage to them, as per normal rules, with the only change being a flavor change of you attempting to do what you describe.
No extra damage, no advantage besides what you normally get for grapple.
I'd have to ask what makes you think a 1" wide pseudo pod would have the strength to force open a creature's mouth and then force its way down its throat which may well narrow to less than 1" wide? A typical human throat is actually less than 1" wide and is surrounded by thick loops of smooth muscles. Those muscles are designed to either swallow or expel something going down or caught in the throat.
The rules for plasmoids do not describe such an ability and I could see a 1" wide pseudo pod being too small/narrow to exert significant force.
So, personally, I wouldn't allow it in a game I was running. I'd classify it as one of those "Wow! I wonder if this works?!" ideas that doesn't when you really think about it.
Just no
I mean, a creature isn't going to just let you pour yourself into them, they're going to fight that; even if you rolled a check to force their mouth open, how long can you keep it open? Can they bite you in half and just slice half your hit-points off?
This is the kind of thing I might allow in an unusual circumstance, but I can't see allowing it as a standard practice, as it just makes things more complicated. Plus we've got a precedent for monsters having an explicit swallow ability if that's something they can do.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
My problem with this scenario is the Plasmoid is an amorphous creature from all intents and purposes does not separate for various logical reasons. If I was a being like, I would have a fear of putting my parts into another creatures mouth. If they bite down then I will lose part of me. If I start with 200 ounces of ooze, unless I can reabsorb that ooze if broken off I would be very jealous of my 200 ounces of ooze.
Plasmoids are very guarded of their bodies when unconscious, which tells me they don't want to lose any ounce of their mass. If one would give away any of their mass, I would assume that was one of the greatest gifts that they can offer. So in my mind a plasmoid first would never put itself into a creatures mouth, and then you would have to logically figure out what happens to the part of you in said creatures mouth if they just instinctually bite down.
So this would be a hard no for me, unless I am missing something.
Edit: Actually you made me think about Groot in Guardians. A more useful thing would be if you had the strength in your pseudopod to grapple the nose, and if you could solidify in a specific way, actually do rather painful damage that would affect very low hit point damage, but would add effects like reduced vision or/and smell, and maybe a temporary stun depending on the target.
I am not sure what my Spirit Animal is. But whatever that thing is, I am pretty sure it has rabies!
I think SagaTympana brings up an excellent point about volume. Even if you were small, you still couldn't fit the whole of your body in the mouth, throat, and stomach of a medium sized creature; part of you would be hanging out. This would leave you vulnerable to potential attacks, and would almost certainly not qualify you for full-cover. You may also want to make sure to keep whatever makes up your eyes, ears, and mouth outside of your combatant to be aware of what's going on outside and communicate what's going on inside.
Rationalizing damage capacity is interesting. There is no reference to how much outward force a plasmoid can exert when expanding or shaping their bodies. They have to be able to exert at the very least slightly more pressure than the atmosphere, which is around 15psi on earth. We do have reference of their pseudopods being able to carry 10 pounds. If we assume by "extrude" that the height of their pseudopod is 1" based on their Amorphous trait, then the volume of a pseudopod is somewhere close to 1830 cubic centimeters. An average human has a volume of about 62,000. That means there's about 34 pseudopods in a medium sized plasmoid. Knowing each has a relative strength of 10 pounds, you could theorize that a fully realized plasmoid could generate enough force to hold 340 lbs. Which, when building a Strength 17 medium plasmoid, falls within the range of their carry (255 lbs) and push, drag, or lift (510 lbs) limits.
While professional boxers can generate over 770 psi, 340 psi is still more than twice an average human who can typically generate between 120 and 150 psi. Although, what may be even scarier is that it only takes 100psi to tear human skin. Three times that number being exerted on your insides would surely do some serious damage.
However, if DMs still don't want to allow for or deal with the damage, there is also the element of asphyxiation. You'd have to manage to stay in place for a good chunk of time, but you could slowly "choke" your victim to death. This could be a really dark form of torture. Perhaps a really twisted plasmoid headsman or executioner should make an appearance in my next campaign... "...You awake to a strange gurgling sound coming from your stomach..."
You can squeeze through an opening as narrow as 1 inch.
If your opponent closes their mouth, there is no opening.
/discussion =)
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I would say, it would be broken against most opponents. Also not really possible, because they can just close their mouth or refuse to swallow you. You can open your mouth and pour water in it, but block it off from enterig your esophagus or lungs, so you would end up trying to shove yourselfe inside its mouth, not fitting in. Basically just pushing your arm or head inside their mouth. The nose or ear would be a more accessable entrance, but they are too small (less than 1 inch / 2cm for humans).
The point of a blade or a spear or even a finger is also small enough to enter an opponent's mouth or put out their eye, but there is no ability to simply 'do so' no matter how well you roll to hit.
Thus, it follows that Plasmoids could not simply 'do that' to another unwilling and conscious creature.