You normally interact with an object while doing something else, such as when you draw a sword as part of the Attack action. When an object requires an action for its use, you take the Utilize action.
It's very clear in that section that the equipping/unequipping is tied to the Attack action, and not to any attack you make during an Attack action
So a short reminder in the description of a different action trumps the full text in the actual action? That seems like a really poor way to design/write the rules tbh.
It seems that is the intention though. The attack action comment specifies when you can take that free object interaction not that you can take an unlimited amount of them.
This view makes the dual welder feat make sense as well as the thrown property. It also does away with the odd one handed with a shield thing, and my 5 attacks per round thing, which the designers likely didn't intend.
You normally interact with an object while doing something else, such as when you draw a sword as part of the Attack action. When an object requires an action for its use, you take the Utilize action.
It's very clear in that section that the equipping/unequipping is tied to the Attack action, and not to any attack you make during an Attack action
So a short reminder in the description of a different action trumps the full text in the actual action? That seems like a really poor way to design/write the rules tbh.
It's not "trumping" anything. It's saying the same thing in a different way
As per usual, they just didn't anticipate the ways people would look for exploits in the other wording
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Green Hill Sunrise, jaded tabaxi mercenary trapped in the Dark Domains (Battle Master fighter) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
The wording in the Utilize rule does NOT limit you to drawing a sword only once per Attack action. It is simply citing an example of something that you might be doing that doesn't require the Utilize action -- when you draw a sword as part of the Attack action is one of those things. You might also draw an axe as part of that same Attack action, who knows?
You normally interact with an object while doing something else, such as when you draw a sword as part of the Attack action. When an object requires an action for its use, you take the Utilize action.
It's very clear in that section that the equipping/unequipping is tied to the Attack action, and not to any attack you make during an Attack action
So a short reminder in the description of a different action trumps the full text in the actual action? That seems like a really poor way to design/write the rules tbh.
It seems that is the intention though. The attack action comment specifies when you can take that free object interaction not that you can take an unlimited amount of them.
This view makes the dual welder feat make sense as well as the thrown property. It also does away with the odd one handed with a shield thing, and my 5 attacks per round thing, which the designers likely didn't intend.
You are seriously confusing a few things.
First, when an object requires an action for its use, you take the Utilize Action.
But an object may not require an action for its use -- you might be able to simply interact with it:
-- If you are interacting with a weapon during an Attack action, you can use the Equipping and Unequipping Weapons rule from the Attack action description.
-- If you are interacting with anythingat any time during Your Turn ("during either your move or action") then you can use the Interacting with Things combat rule.
These are two separate rules, and they can both be used to interact with weapons during combat without using an action.
Regardless of what may or may not have been intended, which is debatable, the RAW is that you can interact with a weapon every time you make an attack using the Attack action and also one additional time using the Interacting with Things rule. This also doesn't include other specific rules that might exist such as the Thrown property.
The wording in the Utilize rule does NOT limit you to drawing a sword only once per Attack action. It is simply citing an example of something that you might be doing that doesn't require the Utilize action -- when you draw a sword as part of the Attack action is one of those things. You might also draw an axe as part of that same Attack action, who knows?
You normally interact with an object while doing something else, such as when you draw a sword as part of the Attack action. When an object requires an action for its use, you take the Utilize action.
It's very clear in that section that the equipping/unequipping is tied to the Attack action, and not to any attack you make during an Attack action
So a short reminder in the description of a different action trumps the full text in the actual action? That seems like a really poor way to design/write the rules tbh.
It seems that is the intention though. The attack action comment specifies when you can take that free object interaction not that you can take an unlimited amount of them.
This view makes the dual welder feat make sense as well as the thrown property. It also does away with the odd one handed with a shield thing, and my 5 attacks per round thing, which the designers likely didn't intend.
You are seriously confusing a few things.
First, when an object requires an action for its use, you take the Utilize Action.
But an object may not require an action for its use -- you might be able to simply interact with it:
-- If you are interacting with a weapon during an Attack action, you can use the Equipping and Unequipping Weapons rule from the Attack action description.
-- If you are interacting with anythingat any time during Your Turn ("during either your move or action") then you can use the Interacting with Things combat rule.
These are two separate rules, and they can both be used to interact with weapons during combat without using an action.
Regardless of what may or may not have been intended, which is debatable, the RAW is that you can interact with a weapon every time you make an attack using the Attack action and also one additional time using the Interacting with Things rule. This also doesn't include other specific rules that might exist such as the Thrown property.
I honestly don't think they are supposed to be two different rules.
"Time-Limited Object Interactions
When time is short, such as in combat, interactions with objects are limited: one free interaction per turn. That interaction must occur duringa creature’s movement or action. Any additional interactions require the Utilize action, as explained in “Combat” later in this chapter."
Further combat once again says "Interacting with Things. You can interact with one object or feature of the environment for free, during either your move or action."
That definitely seems like it is limiting objects to one per turn. And it makes the most sense. It fixes all the other issues and makes other sections of the game make sense instead of being completely useless (as is the case for being able to draw to weapons at the same time) or redundant (in the case of throwing weapons).
First, when an object requires an action for its use, you take the Utilize Action.
But an object may not require an action for its use -- you might be able to simply interact with it:
-- If you are interacting with a weapon during an Attack action, you can use the Equipping and Unequipping Weapons rule from the Attack action description.
-- If you are interacting with anythingat any time during Your Turn ("during either your move or action") then you can use the Interacting with Things combat rule.
These are two separate rules, and they can both be used to interact with weapons during combat without using an action.
Regardless of what may or may not have been intended, which is debatable, the RAW is that you can interact with a weapon every time you make an attack using the Attack action and also one additional time using the Interacting with Things rule. This also doesn't include other specific rules that might exist such as the Thrown property.
I honestly don't think they are supposed to be two different rules.
"Time-Limited Object Interactions
When time is short, such as in combat, interactions with objects are limited: one free interaction per turn. That interaction must occur duringa creature’s movement or action. Any additional interactions require the Utilize action, as explained in “Combat” later in this chapter."
Further combat once again says "Interacting with Things. You can interact with one object or feature of the environment for free, during either your move or action."
That definitely seems like it is limiting objects to one per turn. And it makes the most sense. It fixes all the other issues and makes other sections of the game make sense instead of being completely useless (as is the case for being able to draw to weapons at the same time) or redundant (in the case of throwing weapons).
That's the default. You get a free interaction. All other interactions are granted to you by actions you take. Utilize being the basic "do an object thing" action.
If you cast a spell, you take the Magic action and get to interact with its material components. (The action rules don't even mention it, but it has to be the case.)
If you attack with a thrown weapon, for whatever reason, you get to draw it, because the Thrown property says so.
Similarly, the Attack action says you get to draw and stow weapons, so you get to do it.
All other interactions are granted to you by actions you take.
Please cite the rule that says this
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Green Hill Sunrise, jaded tabaxi mercenary trapped in the Dark Domains (Battle Master fighter) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
First, when an object requires an action for its use, you take the Utilize Action.
But an object may not require an action for its use -- you might be able to simply interact with it:
-- If you are interacting with a weapon during an Attack action, you can use the Equipping and Unequipping Weapons rule from the Attack action description.
-- If you are interacting with anythingat any time during Your Turn ("during either your move or action") then you can use the Interacting with Things combat rule.
These are two separate rules, and they can both be used to interact with weapons during combat without using an action.
Regardless of what may or may not have been intended, which is debatable, the RAW is that you can interact with a weapon every time you make an attack using the Attack action and also one additional time using the Interacting with Things rule. This also doesn't include other specific rules that might exist such as the Thrown property.
I honestly don't think they are supposed to be two different rules.
"Time-Limited Object Interactions
When time is short, such as in combat, interactions with objects are limited: one free interaction per turn. That interaction must occur duringa creature’s movement or action. Any additional interactions require the Utilize action, as explained in “Combat” later in this chapter."
Further combat once again says "Interacting with Things. You can interact with one object or feature of the environment for free, during either your move or action."
That definitely seems like it is limiting objects to one per turn. And it makes the most sense. It fixes all the other issues and makes other sections of the game make sense instead of being completely useless (as is the case for being able to draw to weapons at the same time) or redundant (in the case of throwing weapons).
That's the default. You get a free interaction. All other interactions are granted to you by actions you take. Utilize being the basic "do an object thing" action.
If you cast a spell, you take the Magic action and get to interact with its material components. (The action rules don't even mention it, but it has to be the case.)
If you attack with a thrown weapon, for whatever reason, you get to draw it, because the Thrown property says so.
Similarly, the Attack action says you get to draw and stow weapons, so you get to do it.
I really don't think the intention of the game can be that I as a ranger (hunter, horde breaker) can cast hunter's mark, take 5 attacks, Greataxe (Maybe 3 attacks with a maul?). Then every other round take 6 attacks. (probably only worrying about hunter's mark against significant threats) Which by my count would be 75 points of damage every round at level 5. with a grand total of a max damage of 114. Even without shenanigans you are going to do quite a bit of damage, but I really don't think the rules are suppose to be where I can take 6 attacks at level 5. And switch from a two handed weapon to a single weapon.
I think I can still get the damage to go even higher. Goliath and some other species add damage. (We will be nice and assume bugbear isn't an option).
(Gloomstalker is probably better and since level 13 is when you don't have to worry about concentration is probably when this would really go crazy. Gloomstalker adds more damage and the same number of attacks at level 11.
Perfect exemple of when Exceptions Supersede General Rules to me.
If the Attack action said "you can either equip or unequip one weapon when you take the Attack action" it would have been redundant since the general rule already allow free object interaction during an action.
It instead say "You can either equip or unequip one weapon when you make an attack as part of this action." to specifically allow it during each attack as part of this action.
Exceptions Supersede General Rules
General rules govern each part of the game. For example, the combat rules tell you that melee attacks use Strength and ranged attacks use Dexterity. That’s a general rule, and a general rule is in effect as long as something in the game doesn’t explicitly say otherwise.
The game also includes elements—class features, feats, weapon properties, spells, magic items, monster abilities, and the like—that sometimes contradict a general rule. When an exception and a general rule disagree, the exception wins. For example, if a feature says you can make melee attacks using your Charisma, you can do so, even though that statement disagrees with the general rule.
Regardless of what may or may not have been intended, which is debatable, the RAW is that you can interact with a weapon every time you make an attack...
That's one of two possible ways to read it in isolation. The RAW is debatable. That's why it's being debated.
If you cast a spell, you take the Magic action and get to interact with its material components. (The action rules don't even mention it, but it has to be the case.)
If you attack with a thrown weapon, for whatever reason, you get to draw it, because the Thrown property says so.
Similarly, the Attack action says you get to draw and stow weapons, so you get to do it.
If the Attack action said "you can either equip or unequip one weapon when you take the Attack action" it would have been redundant since the general rule already allow free object interaction during an action.
It instead say "You can either equip or unequip one weapon when you make an attack as part of this action." to specifically allow it during each attack as part of this action.
The ammunition rules say "Drawing the ammunition is part of the attack." That's verbiage from 2014, and those rules have been beaten to death, I think we can all agree drawing ammo is free. So that's an exception to the normal rules. That's why it's part of the weapon property.
Thrown weapons use the same wording now: "...and you can draw that weapon as part of the attack." So unless someone wants to argue ammunition's been nerfed to eat up your one free interaction, this is the same exception being made for Thrown weapons.
So we've got a situation where the Exploration rules say you get to interact with 1 object per turn and anything more would require the Utilitize action, and see the Combat section for more details. Then the Combat section tells you the same thing again; 1 object, then you have to use Utilitize.
Then you go to the Glossary and the Utilize action tells you you'd normally interact with an object as part of doing something else, and gives the specific example of drawing a sword (notably, not a thrown weapon) with the Attack action. So that's clearly a reference to the object rules in the Exploration and Combat sections, because we're talking about what normally happens.
The Attack action says you can draw one weapon (not a weapon) when (not whenever, or every time) you make an attack that's part of the Attack action. And it's not saying the object interaction is taken "as part of an attack" like the Ammunition and Thrown rules do; it's the attack that's part of the action. So it's not written like the ammunition rules, and it's also not written like every other rule that lets you do something however many times as a trigger occurs.
To me, it's pretty clear they intended to write quantity, then timing with that sentence. The Attack rules in the glossary exist in the context of the actual rules chapters (none of the action descriptions go into full detail, the Utilize action barely even bothers to explain object interactions.) It's just explaining the particular ways you can choose to interact with weapons, which isn't covered anywhere else in the book, and because there's a lot of edge cases, it's good to have right next to the action definition. Reading it any other way requires a lot of selective reading.
All other interactions are granted to you by actions you take.
Please cite the rule that says this
As Plaguescarred said. Exceptions supersede general rules. It's in chapter 1 of the PHB. If a part of the rules says you can do a thing under a specific condition, you can do that thing under that condition, even if there's a more general rule that says you can't.
You get a free object interaction. Other actions give you more. Utilize lets you do general object actions. Magic lets you use a magic item. Attack lets you draw and stow weapons as part of each attack you make.
The idea that the free object interaction is the upper bound of all object interactions with Utilize the only exception is an even weaker interpretation than the one that says the attack action only gives you one free draw however many attacks you get within it. I can't support either of them looking at the text of the rules.
Regardless of what may or may not have been intended, which is debatable, the RAW is that you can interact with a weapon every time you make an attack...
That's one of two possible ways to read it in isolation. The RAW is debatable. That's why it's being debated.
I strongly disagree. I honestly don't know why it's being debated, but the rule is not ambiguous.
It's also very clear that you are meant to be able to use the general Interacting with Things rule (at any time on your turn) and also the Equipping and Unequipping Weapons rule during an Attack action. One rule is not replacing the other -- it's two different rules, providing two different ways to draw or stow a weapon without using an action.
All other interactions are granted to you by actions you take.
Please cite the rule that says this
As Plaguescarred said. Exceptions supersede general rules. It's in chapter 1 of the PHB. If a part of the rules says you can do a thing under a specific condition, you can do that thing under that condition, even if there's a more general rule that says you can't.
You get a free object interaction. Other actions give you more. Utilize lets you do general object actions. Magic lets you use a magic item. Attack lets you draw and stow weapons as part of each attack you make.
The idea that the free object interaction is the upper bound of all object interactions with Utilize the only exception is an even weaker interpretation than the one that says the attack action only gives you one free draw however many attacks you get within it. I can't support either of them looking at the text of the rules.
No, you misunderstand. Show me where it says, "You get one free object interaction per turn, but certain actions will give you more."
Your entire interpretation of the object interaction rules is predicated on that assumption, but that statement is nowhere in the rules that I can find. Show me what you're basing that assumption on. Show me where it says you can get more object interactions somehow, without the Utilize action
Saying "it's a case of specific beats general" is a circular argument, because the 'specific' you're citing doesn't actually contradict the general rule -- unless you go in assuming that it will
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Regardless of what may or may not have been intended, which is debatable, the RAW is that you can interact with a weapon every time you make an attack...
That's one of two possible ways to read it in isolation. The RAW is debatable. That's why it's being debated.
I strongly disagree. I honestly don't know why it's being debated, but the rule is not ambiguous.
It's also very clear that you are meant to be able to use the general Interacting with Things rule (at any time on your turn) and also the Equipping and Unequipping Weapons rule during an Attack action. One rule is not replacing the other -- it's two different rules, providing two different ways to draw or stow a weapon without using an action.
I'm not sure it is clear. Like I said I don't think the designers intended that a hunter ranger could take six attacks every round at level 5. And the thrown weapons have a redundant effect and dual wielder has a completely pointless ability.
No, you misunderstand. Show me where it says, "You get one free object interaction per turn, but certain actions will give you more."
I don't think he necessarily means "certain actions". It's really just any rule or any feature anywhere in the game might give you a free object interaction if they say that they do because things do what they say in this game.
As a default, you always have the one free interaction with an object or feature of the environment given by the general combat rule "Interacting with Things". This rule applies "during either your move or action" and is listed as a subsection of the "Your Turn" section of combat. Meaning, this is one of the things that you can do on Your Turn.
Your Turn
On your turn, you can move a distance up to your Speed and take one action. You decide whether to move first or take your action first.
According to the rules in the "Your Turn" section, in addition to moving and taking an action, on your turn you can also communicate and/or interact with one object. You can also do nothing on your turn.
In other words, the restrictions for this interaction are very broad. It just has to be on Your Turn. This includes duringyour action.
One of the possible actions that you can take with your one action that you can take on Your Turn is called the Attack action, which is defined elsewhere. The Attack action defines an additional way that you can interact with something for free that is much more restrictive, in the Equipping and Unequipping Weapons rule. In this case, you can interact with only one particular type of object that is considered to be a weapon, and that has to be done during this particular type of Action and only when certain other conditions are met (you must be making an attack).
Since the default free object interaction can already be used in that way, there would be absolutely no reason for the Equipping and Unequipping Weapons rule to even exist at all if it were somehow simply replacing the object interaction that you already have, for a total of one. The mere existence of this more specific and more restrictive rule is telling you that this is separate and in addition to the other rule which could also be used in this same situation. The same is true for other rules such as the Thrown property. These are all cumulative ways to interact with weapons on your turn.
I'm not sure it is clear. Like I said I don't think the designers intended that a hunter ranger could take six attacks every round at level 5. And the thrown weapons have a redundant effect and dual wielder has a completely pointless ability.
None of us can know for sure what the intent of any design was, but I believe strongly that this is indeed exactly the sort of thing that they are trying to allow with the new rules. Damage-wise, slightly more attacks with lighter weapons is not necessarily stronger than using heavier weapons, so there isn't a drastic balance issue, and conceptually being able to attack slightly faster or more often with lighter weapons makes some logical sense and is a concept that has existed before in previous versions of D&D.
In addition, I believe strongly that they are intentionally trying to make certain small things more fun than they were. Having to worry too much about how to get the thing that you need into your hand in order to do something cool was unnecessarily restrictive in many cases and was mostly ignored by many players and DMs. A lot of ret-conning was happening where people would say things like "oh, I had my sword drawn the whole time while walking through town, and now I guess I'll just drop it on the ground so that I can draw my bow". These sorts of technicalities made things less fun and broke immersion and encouraged players do say that their characters would be doing things that they really wouldn't be doing, and so on. Making it much easier to draw weapons at the beginning of battle and to switch weapons during battle is a very positive design change that I am quite certain is extremely intentional.
No, you misunderstand. Show me where it says, "You get one free object interaction per turn, but certain actions will give you more."
I don't think he necessarily means "certain actions". It's really just any rule or any feature anywhere in the game might give you a free object interaction if they say that they do because things do what they say in this game.
As a default, you always have the one free interaction with an object or feature of the environment given by the general combat rule "Interacting with Things". This rule applies "during either your move or action" and is listed as a subsection of the "Your Turn" section of combat. Meaning, this is one of the things that you can do on Your Turn.
Your Turn
On your turn, you can move a distance up to your Speed and take one action. You decide whether to move first or take your action first.
According to the rules in the "Your Turn" section, in addition to moving and taking an action, on your turn you can also communicate and/or interact with one object. You can also do nothing on your turn.
In other words, the restrictions for this interaction are very broad. It just has to be on Your Turn. This includes duringyour action.
One of the possible actions that you can take with your one action that you can take on Your Turn is called the Attack action, which is defined elsewhere. The Attack action defines an additional way that you can interact with something for free that is much more restrictive, in the Equipping and Unequipping Weapons rule. In this case, you can interact with only one particular type of object that is considered to be a weapon, and that has to be done during this particular type of Action and only when certain other conditions are met (you must be making an attack).
Since the default free object interaction can already be used in that way, there would be absolutely no reason for the Equipping and Unequipping Weapons rule to even exist at all if it were somehow simply replacing the object interaction that you already have, for a total of one. The mere existence of this more specific and more restrictive rule is telling you that this is separate and in addition to the other rule which could also be used in this same situation. The same is true for other rules such as the Thrown property. These are all cumulative ways to interact with weapons on your turn.
I'm not sure it is clear. Like I said I don't think the designers intended that a hunter ranger could take six attacks every round at level 5. And the thrown weapons have a redundant effect and dual wielder has a completely pointless ability.
None of us can know for sure what the intent of any design was, but I believe strongly that this is indeed exactly the sort of thing that they are trying to allow with the new rules. Damage-wise, slightly more attacks with lighter weapons is not necessarily stronger than using heavier weapons, so there isn't a drastic balance issue, and conceptually being able to attack slightly faster or more often with lighter weapons makes some logical sense and is a concept that has existed before in previous versions of D&D.
In addition, I believe strongly that they are intentionally trying to make certain small things more fun than they were. Having to worry too much about how to get the thing that you need into your hand in order to do something cool was unnecessarily restrictive in many cases and was mostly ignored by many players and DMs. A lot of ret-conning was happening where people would say things like "oh, I had my sword drawn the whole time while walking through town, and now I guess I'll just drop it on the ground so that I can draw my bow". These sorts of technicalities made things less fun and broke immersion and encouraged players do say that their characters would be doing things that they really wouldn't be doing, and so on. Making it much easier to draw weapons at the beginning of battle and to switch weapons during battle is a very positive design change that I am quite certain is extremely intentional.
Here is the attacks
Greataxe
Greataxe (hunters attack ability)
Greataxe (cleave... As I read it because the hunters ability and cleave trigger at the same time the player decides which goes first.)
Scrimar (2nd attack)
Scimitar (light weapon - Nick probably required for the object interactions)
Scimitar (feat) (obviously this attack is not used when you need to cast hunters mark.
If I remember correctly this gives you an average of 70 damage each round as long as each attack hits. The issue being it's not just light attacks. You literally always start off with a two handed weapon and then go into your one handed weapons or you use a shield and go into the light weapons. You should never use a longsword or any single weapon.
General rules don't need to validate specific rules. For example, the Hide action don't indicate other ways you can try to conceal yourself than the one mentioned, and yet the Halfling can do so differently. The game is full of examples such as this.
Greataxe (cleave... As I read it because the hunters ability and cleave trigger at the same time the player decides which goes first.)
Scrimar (2nd attack)
Scimitar (light weapon - Nick probably required for the object interactions)
Scimitar (feat) (obviously this attack is not used when you need to cast hunters mark.
If I remember correctly this gives you an average of 70 damage each round as long as each attack hits. The issue being it's not just light attacks. You literally always start off with a two handed weapon and then go into your one handed weapons or you use a shield and go into the light weapons. You should never use a longsword or any single weapon.
I think that we confirmed that this works. I think that some effort has gone into beefing up the Ranger class anyway as they were considered to be one of the weaker classes (although the new 20th level ability is apparently very underwhelming) so finding a high damage combo like this is probably not the end of the world. You need 4 interactions to be able to start and end your turn wielding the greataxe. The first greataxe attack and the first scimitar attack each grant an interaction since those are part of your Attack action. The Nick property attack provides your third interaction since that makes that attack part of your Attack action as well. Your 4th interaction comes from the general Interacting with Things (free object interaction) rule.
Greataxe (cleave... As I read it because the hunters ability and cleave trigger at the same time the player decides which goes first.)
Scrimar (2nd attack)
Scimitar (light weapon - Nick probably required for the object interactions)
Scimitar (feat) (obviously this attack is not used when you need to cast hunters mark.
If I remember correctly this gives you an average of 70 damage each round as long as each attack hits. The issue being it's not just light attacks. You literally always start off with a two handed weapon and then go into your one handed weapons or you use a shield and go into the light weapons. You should never use a longsword or any single weapon.
I think that we confirmed that this works. I think that some effort has gone into beefing up the Ranger class anyway as they were considered to be one of the weaker classes (although the new 20th level ability is apparently very underwhelming) so finding a high damage combo like this is probably not the end of the world. You need 4 interactions to be able to start and end your turn wielding the greataxe. The first greataxe attack and the first scimitar attack each grant an interaction since those are part of your Attack action. The Nick property attack provides your third interaction since that makes that attack part of your Attack action as well. Your 4th interaction comes from the general Interacting with Things (free object interaction) rule.
Well fighters, rangers, rogues, any class with weapon mysteries should do this exact samething. I just went ranger because it gives you hunters mark and an extra attack. But every non magic class should make those same attacks. Someone may substitute a maul for a greataxe to give everyone advantage.
No PC with weapon mastery should ever do anything different than what I just said above. The exception is the final bonus action attack, as sentinel can be utilized for more attacks.
I am also not sure anyone should ever play fighter. As I don't think it can keep up with the ranger, as it gets one less attack and no means to increase every attack.
If you have 5pc doing this you are easily looking at 400 damage per round at level 5.
I've read all of the excellent, and wonderful posts that have been made so far on this topic, and I appreciate the interest.
I'm leaning towards this as being the actual intention of these rules.
1.) You get one free object interaction per turn regardless of what you do. 2.) You get one extra object interaction (specifically to equip or unequip a weapon) when you make an attack as part of the Attack [Action]. 3.) If you use Action Surge, you get one extra extra object interaction (specifically to equip or unequip a weapon) when you make an attack as part of the Attack [Action] during your second Attack [Action]. 4.) Dual Wielder lets you equip or unequip two weapons instead of one when you make an attack as part of the Attack [Action].
This is enough to unequip one weapon and equip one weapon if you take the Attack action.
This is enough to unequip one weapon and equip two weapons if you have the dual wielder feat. (Greataxe, Scimitar, Scimitar example seems to work either way).
I agree that it would say 'whenever' instead of 'when' if they meant 'once per attack'.
I agree that the verbiage on Utilize to some extent supports the Once per Attack [Action] interpretation.
I disagree that the free object interaction described in Utilize is the same as, or is used up during the Attack [Action].
Crossbow Juggling actually still works either way you rule this, since you only need to swap once per turn typically (1 object interaction, and 1 weapon interaction).
I agree that the verbiage on Thrown weapons, and the verbiage in the Dual Wielder feat become redundant or meaningless with the 'once per attack' interpretation.
As Plaguescarred said. Exceptions supersede general rules. It's in chapter 1 of the PHB. If a part of the rules says you can do a thing under a specific condition, you can do that thing under that condition, even if there's a more general rule that says you can't.
You get a free object interaction. Other actions give you more. Utilize lets you do general object actions. Magic lets you use a magic item. Attack lets you draw and stow weapons as part of each attack you make.
The idea that the free object interaction is the upper bound of all object interactions with Utilize the only exception is an even weaker interpretation than the one that says the attack action only gives you one free draw however many attacks you get within it. I can't support either of them looking at the text of the rules.
No, you misunderstand. Show me where it says, "You get one free object interaction per turn, but certain actions will give you more."
Your entire interpretation of the object interaction rules is predicated on that assumption, but that statement is nowhere in the rules that I can find. Show me what you're basing that assumption on. Show me where it says you can get more object interactions somehow, without the Utilize action
Saying "it's a case of specific beats general" is a circular argument, because the 'specific' you're citing doesn't actually contradict the general rule -- unless you go in assuming that it will
General rule: you get one free object interaction per turn
Now, can a fifth-level fighter open a door (free interaction), then draw and throw two daggers?
They can, because the Thrown property says that you can draw the weapon as part of attacking. That's the specific rule. It says you can take an object interaction. Therefore, you can take that interaction because the specific rule overrides the general.
Similarly, a fighter can open a door, then unsling their bow and attack with it, because the Attack action says you can equip a weapon when you attack as part of this action.
Even the Utilize action is this. It overrides the general rule by saying "you can spend your action to operate an object".
Potions, which are now drunk with a bonus action, are yet another exception.
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It seems that is the intention though. The attack action comment specifies when you can take that free object interaction not that you can take an unlimited amount of them.
This view makes the dual welder feat make sense as well as the thrown property. It also does away with the odd one handed with a shield thing, and my 5 attacks per round thing, which the designers likely didn't intend.
It's not "trumping" anything. It's saying the same thing in a different way
As per usual, they just didn't anticipate the ways people would look for exploits in the other wording
Active characters:
Green Hill Sunrise, jaded tabaxi mercenary trapped in the Dark Domains (Battle Master fighter)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
A couple of things.
The wording in the Utilize rule does NOT limit you to drawing a sword only once per Attack action. It is simply citing an example of something that you might be doing that doesn't require the Utilize action -- when you draw a sword as part of the Attack action is one of those things. You might also draw an axe as part of that same Attack action, who knows?
You are seriously confusing a few things.
First, when an object requires an action for its use, you take the Utilize Action.
But an object may not require an action for its use -- you might be able to simply interact with it:
-- If you are interacting with a weapon during an Attack action, you can use the Equipping and Unequipping Weapons rule from the Attack action description.
-- If you are interacting with anything at any time during Your Turn ("during either your move or action") then you can use the Interacting with Things combat rule.
These are two separate rules, and they can both be used to interact with weapons during combat without using an action.
Regardless of what may or may not have been intended, which is debatable, the RAW is that you can interact with a weapon every time you make an attack using the Attack action and also one additional time using the Interacting with Things rule. This also doesn't include other specific rules that might exist such as the Thrown property.
I honestly don't think they are supposed to be two different rules.
"Time-Limited Object Interactions
When time is short, such as in combat, interactions with objects are limited: one free interaction per turn. That interaction must occur during a creature’s movement or action. Any additional interactions require the Utilize action, as explained in “Combat” later in this chapter."
Further combat once again says "Interacting with Things. You can interact with one object or feature of the environment for free, during either your move or action."
That definitely seems like it is limiting objects to one per turn. And it makes the most sense. It fixes all the other issues and makes other sections of the game make sense instead of being completely useless (as is the case for being able to draw to weapons at the same time) or redundant (in the case of throwing weapons).
That's the default. You get a free interaction. All other interactions are granted to you by actions you take. Utilize being the basic "do an object thing" action.
If you cast a spell, you take the Magic action and get to interact with its material components. (The action rules don't even mention it, but it has to be the case.)
If you attack with a thrown weapon, for whatever reason, you get to draw it, because the Thrown property says so.
Similarly, the Attack action says you get to draw and stow weapons, so you get to do it.
Please cite the rule that says this
Active characters:
Green Hill Sunrise, jaded tabaxi mercenary trapped in the Dark Domains (Battle Master fighter)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I really don't think the intention of the game can be that I as a ranger (hunter, horde breaker) can cast hunter's mark, take 5 attacks, Greataxe (Maybe 3 attacks with a maul?). Then every other round take 6 attacks. (probably only worrying about hunter's mark against significant threats) Which by my count would be 75 points of damage every round at level 5. with a grand total of a max damage of 114. Even without shenanigans you are going to do quite a bit of damage, but I really don't think the rules are suppose to be where I can take 6 attacks at level 5. And switch from a two handed weapon to a single weapon.
I think I can still get the damage to go even higher. Goliath and some other species add damage. (We will be nice and assume bugbear isn't an option).
(Gloomstalker is probably better and since level 13 is when you don't have to worry about concentration is probably when this would really go crazy. Gloomstalker adds more damage and the same number of attacks at level 11.
Perfect exemple of when Exceptions Supersede General Rules to me.
If the Attack action said "you can either equip or unequip one weapon when you take the Attack action" it would have been redundant since the general rule already allow free object interaction during an action.
It instead say "You can either equip or unequip one weapon when you make an attack as part of this action." to specifically allow it during each attack as part of this action.
That's one of two possible ways to read it in isolation. The RAW is debatable. That's why it's being debated.
The ammunition rules say "Drawing the ammunition is part of the attack." That's verbiage from 2014, and those rules have been beaten to death, I think we can all agree drawing ammo is free. So that's an exception to the normal rules. That's why it's part of the weapon property.
Thrown weapons use the same wording now: "...and you can draw that weapon as part of the attack." So unless someone wants to argue ammunition's been nerfed to eat up your one free interaction, this is the same exception being made for Thrown weapons.
So we've got a situation where the Exploration rules say you get to interact with 1 object per turn and anything more would require the Utilitize action, and see the Combat section for more details. Then the Combat section tells you the same thing again; 1 object, then you have to use Utilitize.
Then you go to the Glossary and the Utilize action tells you you'd normally interact with an object as part of doing something else, and gives the specific example of drawing a sword (notably, not a thrown weapon) with the Attack action. So that's clearly a reference to the object rules in the Exploration and Combat sections, because we're talking about what normally happens.
The Attack action says you can draw one weapon (not a weapon) when (not whenever, or every time) you make an attack that's part of the Attack action. And it's not saying the object interaction is taken "as part of an attack" like the Ammunition and Thrown rules do; it's the attack that's part of the action. So it's not written like the ammunition rules, and it's also not written like every other rule that lets you do something however many times as a trigger occurs.
To me, it's pretty clear they intended to write quantity, then timing with that sentence. The Attack rules in the glossary exist in the context of the actual rules chapters (none of the action descriptions go into full detail, the Utilize action barely even bothers to explain object interactions.) It's just explaining the particular ways you can choose to interact with weapons, which isn't covered anywhere else in the book, and because there's a lot of edge cases, it's good to have right next to the action definition. Reading it any other way requires a lot of selective reading.
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As Plaguescarred said. Exceptions supersede general rules. It's in chapter 1 of the PHB. If a part of the rules says you can do a thing under a specific condition, you can do that thing under that condition, even if there's a more general rule that says you can't.
You get a free object interaction. Other actions give you more. Utilize lets you do general object actions. Magic lets you use a magic item. Attack lets you draw and stow weapons as part of each attack you make.
The idea that the free object interaction is the upper bound of all object interactions with Utilize the only exception is an even weaker interpretation than the one that says the attack action only gives you one free draw however many attacks you get within it. I can't support either of them looking at the text of the rules.
I strongly disagree. I honestly don't know why it's being debated, but the rule is not ambiguous.
It's also very clear that you are meant to be able to use the general Interacting with Things rule (at any time on your turn) and also the Equipping and Unequipping Weapons rule during an Attack action. One rule is not replacing the other -- it's two different rules, providing two different ways to draw or stow a weapon without using an action.
No, you misunderstand. Show me where it says, "You get one free object interaction per turn, but certain actions will give you more."
Your entire interpretation of the object interaction rules is predicated on that assumption, but that statement is nowhere in the rules that I can find. Show me what you're basing that assumption on. Show me where it says you can get more object interactions somehow, without the Utilize action
Saying "it's a case of specific beats general" is a circular argument, because the 'specific' you're citing doesn't actually contradict the general rule -- unless you go in assuming that it will
Active characters:
Green Hill Sunrise, jaded tabaxi mercenary trapped in the Dark Domains (Battle Master fighter)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I'm not sure it is clear. Like I said I don't think the designers intended that a hunter ranger could take six attacks every round at level 5. And the thrown weapons have a redundant effect and dual wielder has a completely pointless ability.
I don't think he necessarily means "certain actions". It's really just any rule or any feature anywhere in the game might give you a free object interaction if they say that they do because things do what they say in this game.
As a default, you always have the one free interaction with an object or feature of the environment given by the general combat rule "Interacting with Things". This rule applies "during either your move or action" and is listed as a subsection of the "Your Turn" section of combat. Meaning, this is one of the things that you can do on Your Turn.
According to the rules in the "Your Turn" section, in addition to moving and taking an action, on your turn you can also communicate and/or interact with one object. You can also do nothing on your turn.
In other words, the restrictions for this interaction are very broad. It just has to be on Your Turn. This includes during your action.
One of the possible actions that you can take with your one action that you can take on Your Turn is called the Attack action, which is defined elsewhere. The Attack action defines an additional way that you can interact with something for free that is much more restrictive, in the Equipping and Unequipping Weapons rule. In this case, you can interact with only one particular type of object that is considered to be a weapon, and that has to be done during this particular type of Action and only when certain other conditions are met (you must be making an attack).
Since the default free object interaction can already be used in that way, there would be absolutely no reason for the Equipping and Unequipping Weapons rule to even exist at all if it were somehow simply replacing the object interaction that you already have, for a total of one. The mere existence of this more specific and more restrictive rule is telling you that this is separate and in addition to the other rule which could also be used in this same situation. The same is true for other rules such as the Thrown property. These are all cumulative ways to interact with weapons on your turn.
None of us can know for sure what the intent of any design was, but I believe strongly that this is indeed exactly the sort of thing that they are trying to allow with the new rules. Damage-wise, slightly more attacks with lighter weapons is not necessarily stronger than using heavier weapons, so there isn't a drastic balance issue, and conceptually being able to attack slightly faster or more often with lighter weapons makes some logical sense and is a concept that has existed before in previous versions of D&D.
In addition, I believe strongly that they are intentionally trying to make certain small things more fun than they were. Having to worry too much about how to get the thing that you need into your hand in order to do something cool was unnecessarily restrictive in many cases and was mostly ignored by many players and DMs. A lot of ret-conning was happening where people would say things like "oh, I had my sword drawn the whole time while walking through town, and now I guess I'll just drop it on the ground so that I can draw my bow". These sorts of technicalities made things less fun and broke immersion and encouraged players do say that their characters would be doing things that they really wouldn't be doing, and so on. Making it much easier to draw weapons at the beginning of battle and to switch weapons during battle is a very positive design change that I am quite certain is extremely intentional.
Here is the attacks
Greataxe
Greataxe (hunters attack ability)
Greataxe (cleave... As I read it because the hunters ability and cleave trigger at the same time the player decides which goes first.)
Scrimar (2nd attack)
Scimitar (light weapon - Nick probably required for the object interactions)
Scimitar (feat) (obviously this attack is not used when you need to cast hunters mark.
If I remember correctly this gives you an average of 70 damage each round as long as each attack hits. The issue being it's not just light attacks. You literally always start off with a two handed weapon and then go into your one handed weapons or you use a shield and go into the light weapons. You should never use a longsword or any single weapon.
General rules don't need to validate specific rules. For example, the Hide action don't indicate other ways you can try to conceal yourself than the one mentioned, and yet the Halfling can do so differently. The game is full of examples such as this.
I think that we confirmed that this works. I think that some effort has gone into beefing up the Ranger class anyway as they were considered to be one of the weaker classes (although the new 20th level ability is apparently very underwhelming) so finding a high damage combo like this is probably not the end of the world. You need 4 interactions to be able to start and end your turn wielding the greataxe. The first greataxe attack and the first scimitar attack each grant an interaction since those are part of your Attack action. The Nick property attack provides your third interaction since that makes that attack part of your Attack action as well. Your 4th interaction comes from the general Interacting with Things (free object interaction) rule.
Well fighters, rangers, rogues, any class with weapon mysteries should do this exact samething. I just went ranger because it gives you hunters mark and an extra attack. But every non magic class should make those same attacks. Someone may substitute a maul for a greataxe to give everyone advantage.
No PC with weapon mastery should ever do anything different than what I just said above. The exception is the final bonus action attack, as sentinel can be utilized for more attacks.
I am also not sure anyone should ever play fighter. As I don't think it can keep up with the ranger, as it gets one less attack and no means to increase every attack.
If you have 5pc doing this you are easily looking at 400 damage per round at level 5.
I've read all of the excellent, and wonderful posts that have been made so far on this topic, and I appreciate the interest.
I'm leaning towards this as being the actual intention of these rules.
1.) You get one free object interaction per turn regardless of what you do.
2.) You get one extra object interaction (specifically to equip or unequip a weapon) when you make an attack as part of the Attack [Action].
3.) If you use Action Surge, you get one extra extra object interaction (specifically to equip or unequip a weapon) when you make an attack as part of the Attack [Action] during your second Attack [Action].
4.) Dual Wielder lets you equip or unequip two weapons instead of one when you make an attack as part of the Attack [Action].
This is enough to unequip one weapon and equip one weapon if you take the Attack action.
This is enough to unequip one weapon and equip two weapons if you have the dual wielder feat. (Greataxe, Scimitar, Scimitar example seems to work either way).
I agree that it would say 'whenever' instead of 'when' if they meant 'once per attack'.
I agree that the verbiage on Utilize to some extent supports the Once per Attack [Action] interpretation.
I disagree that the free object interaction described in Utilize is the same as, or is used up during the Attack [Action].
Crossbow Juggling actually still works either way you rule this, since you only need to swap once per turn typically (1 object interaction, and 1 weapon interaction).
I agree that the verbiage on Thrown weapons, and the verbiage in the Dual Wielder feat become redundant or meaningless with the 'once per attack' interpretation.
General rule: you get one free object interaction per turn
Now, can a fifth-level fighter open a door (free interaction), then draw and throw two daggers?
They can, because the Thrown property says that you can draw the weapon as part of attacking. That's the specific rule. It says you can take an object interaction. Therefore, you can take that interaction because the specific rule overrides the general.
Similarly, a fighter can open a door, then unsling their bow and attack with it, because the Attack action says you can equip a weapon when you attack as part of this action.
Even the Utilize action is this. It overrides the general rule by saying "you can spend your action to operate an object".
Potions, which are now drunk with a bonus action, are yet another exception.