Having the invisibility check to find you based on your Spell Save DC would be cool and make sense, and you could further it by taking the hide action (for them rogue boys) making stealth builds more attainable to full casters
The 2024 don't have any official way of causing your location to become unknown. While the rules for attacking unseen targets are largely the same as in 2014 ("This is true whether you’re guessing the target’s location or targeting a creature you can hear but not see.") there's no longer any rule that causes your location to be unknown (in 2014, the way you did it was by hiding). As such, the actual situation is "I cast invisibility. This has absolutely no effect on whether I can be found, unless the DM makes a custom determination that it's relevant".
Yes and no. If you cast Invisibility and can't move, then enemies still know where you are and can target you using the Unseen Attackers rules. However, if you cast Invisibility and move, enemies won't be able to find your location right away, so you're unknown during that time; unless of course they have See Invisibility, Blindsight or Truesight
Incorrect. The invisible status has no effect on whether they know your location.
I mean, isn't that what you just said above? If the condition has no way to cause your location to be unknown, and you cast Invisibility while in combat with enemies looking at you, unless you move from your spot then they know where you are
People perfectly know where you are no matter how much you move if you are not hiding. they can be blind and they know the exact location of everyone on the battlefield with hundreds of friends and foes and know which they are if people don't make a DC 15 hide check. I'm trying to make the situation as ludicrous as possible to illustrate my disdain for this rule. Just as there is a flat Dc to hide, there should be a Dc to know the location of invisible targets scaling by range, with disadvantage for distractions. Can a DM wing this, sure. But it makes it easier to wing things if the rules include guidelines.
They aren't the same, and you can infer this by the requirements or lack thereof to gain the condition. The Invisibility spell in 2014 didn't require a check, and the the requirements to break the spell are the same in 2014 as in 2024. The spell doesn't actually make you transparent nor it bends light around you; instead it creates the illusion that you're not where you are through magical means. I use the example of a security camera having their feed replaced by another where you're not present, thus making you unseen to the security guard watching the video. This is why attacking, dealing damage or casting any spell ends the effect, because any of those disrupts the illusion.
Meanwhile, Hiding is a physical act where you use Cover and Heavily Obscured areas to become unseen by others. You're not using magic to become unseen, you're using the environment to do so. This is why it requires a DC check to hide, and why it requires an enemy to beat that score if they take the Search action.
The Invisible condition doesn't tell you whether you're unseen or not, it just says what benefits you gain under it, which is: "advantage on initiative; you cannot be targeted by sight unless you can somehow be seen; advantage on attacks and enemies have disadvantage to attack you unless they can somehow see you"
The problem with your example is the single perception view, the security camera, and the belief that the invisibility spell or feature does not make an object or creature transparent enough to be impossible to see without special abilities or magic.
And in 2014, the only mention of invisibility in hiding was in the hide sub bar that said,” if a creature is invisible, for the purposes of hiding the creature is considered heavily Obscured.”, meaning the invisible creature has advantage on making a stealth check to hide.
2024, make it up as you go, and be sure your having fun.
Never said my example was perfect, but it served the purpose to illustrate what happens. A better way to say it would be that you create an illusion where you vanish from where you are, but if you have a special sense or magic, you can see through the illusion. It's similar to using Silent Image or Major Illusion to make an object appear invisible, which no you can't do with the Invisibility spell since that only targets creatures
When was invisibility spell unable to be cast upon an object?
Ever since the spell existed the ability to cast it on an object has existed. You know the whole this are not the Ai’s your looking for, schtick ?
You've never been able to cast it on an object, not even in 2014. It's in the description: "A creature you touch has the Invisible condition until the spell ends."
If that were ever the case, why are there so many magical items that can be created if the description only states it effects creatures?
Because magic item creation doesn't use the spell rules? There's nothing preventing applying the invisible status to objects, it's just not done with the invisibility spell.
They aren't the same, and you can infer this by the requirements or lack thereof to gain the condition. The Invisibility spell in 2014 didn't require a check, and the the requirements to break the spell are the same in 2014 as in 2024. The spell doesn't actually make you transparent nor it bends light around you; instead it creates the illusion that you're not where you are through magical means. I use the example of a security camera having their feed replaced by another where you're not present, thus making you unseen to the security guard watching the video. This is why attacking, dealing damage or casting any spell ends the effect, because any of those disrupts the illusion.
Meanwhile, Hiding is a physical act where you use Cover and Heavily Obscured areas to become unseen by others. You're not using magic to become unseen, you're using the environment to do so. This is why it requires a DC check to hide, and why it requires an enemy to beat that score if they take the Search action.
The Invisible condition doesn't tell you whether you're unseen or not, it just says what benefits you gain under it, which is: "advantage on initiative; you cannot be targeted by sight unless you can somehow be seen; advantage on attacks and enemies have disadvantage to attack you unless they can somehow see you"
The problem with your example is the single perception view, the security camera, and the belief that the invisibility spell or feature does not make an object or creature transparent enough to be impossible to see without special abilities or magic.
And in 2014, the only mention of invisibility in hiding was in the hide sub bar that said,” if a creature is invisible, for the purposes of hiding the creature is considered heavily Obscured.”, meaning the invisible creature has advantage on making a stealth check to hide.
2024, make it up as you go, and be sure your having fun.
Never said my example was perfect, but it served the purpose to illustrate what happens. A better way to say it would be that you create an illusion where you vanish from where you are, but if you have a special sense or magic, you can see through the illusion. It's similar to using Silent Image or Major Illusion to make an object appear invisible, which no you can't do with the Invisibility spell since that only targets creatures
When was invisibility spell unable to be cast upon an object?
Ever since the spell existed the ability to cast it on an object has existed. You know the whole this are not the Ai’s your looking for, schtick ?
You've never been able to cast it on an object, not even in 2014. It's in the description: "A creature you touch has the Invisible condition until the spell ends."
If that were ever the case, why are there so many magical items that can be created if the description only states it effects creatures?
Objects will never break the invisible condition, and would remain hidden until interacted with. You’d never notice anything was there unless it was moved, or you had the ability to see invisible stuff.
The rules themselves state that invisible objects can exist, so obviously you can cast invisibility on an object, and the object is invisible.( unable to be seen without aid of special senses or magical ability.)
If you can’t cast invisibility on an object, then how can they exist? Why is it so good at hiding? Where’s my electric car Wanye?”
Don't know what to tell you. Both Invisibility and Greater Invisibility clearly says you can only target creatures with it. There are no official spells that I know that allow you to make objects invisible, but you can create optical illusions with Silent Image and Major Illusion, though they will not be perfect. The other way is Homebrewing the Invisibility spells to allow them to target objects
Edit: You could use the Wish spell, but that clearly is a waste and risks losing the ability to cast it permanently
2nd Edit: You can use Sequester to turn an object or creature invisible, though that is a 7th level spell.
Having the invisibility check to find you based on your Spell Save DC would be cool and make sense, and you could further it by taking the hide action (for them rogue boys) making stealth builds more attainable to full casters
The 2024 don't have any official way of causing your location to become unknown. While the rules for attacking unseen targets are largely the same as in 2014 ("This is true whether you’re guessing the target’s location or targeting a creature you can hear but not see.") there's no longer any rule that causes your location to be unknown (in 2014, the way you did it was by hiding). As such, the actual situation is "I cast invisibility. This has absolutely no effect on whether I can be found, unless the DM makes a custom determination that it's relevant".
Yes and no. If you cast Invisibility and can't move, then enemies still know where you are and can target you using the Unseen Attackers rules. However, if you cast Invisibility and move, enemies won't be able to find your location right away, so you're unknown during that time; unless of course they have See Invisibility, Blindsight or Truesight
Incorrect. The invisible status has no effect on whether they know your location.
I mean, isn't that what you just said above? If the condition has no way to cause your location to be unknown, and you cast Invisibility while in combat with enemies looking at you, unless you move from your spot then they know where you are
No. In 2014 and presumably in 2024, creatures always know where you are even when you have cast invisibility, because perception accounts for hearing. To be unheard requires(ed) stealth. This is somewhat problematic in 2024 as it doesn't appear you can simply start stealthing if you are invisible, so opponents would always know where you are because they can hear you.
Greater Invisibility would essentially make a player or monster impossible to ever be hit, if they could only ever guess where you are. A player has a 1% chance of guessing where a character is (who can move 30 ft. in all directions) and then with disadvantage, would never be able to hit someone with greater invisibility. Hence why its required to take the hide action while invisible to actually be undetected.
This potentially doesn't work in 2024. The invisible spell doesn't grant you the conditions needed to take the hide action. So presumably you would need to run behind a wall to hide while invisible. And then that creates a whole other mess of having the same condition twice, but not having it twice.
People perfectly know where you are no matter how much you move if you are not hiding. they can be blind and they know the exact location of everyone on the battlefield with hundreds of friends and foes and know which they are if people don't make a DC 15 hide check. I'm trying to make the situation as ludicrous as possible to illustrate my disdain for this rule. Just as there is a flat Dc to hide, there should be a Dc to know the location of invisible targets scaling by range, with disadvantage for distractions. Can a DM wing this, sure. But it makes it easier to wing things if the rules include guidelines.
You've never been able to cast it on an object, not even in 2014. It's in the description: "A creature you touch has the Invisible condition until the spell ends."
Because magic item creation doesn't use the spell rules? There's nothing preventing applying the invisible status to objects, it's just not done with the invisibility spell.
Don't know what to tell you. Both Invisibility and Greater Invisibility clearly says you can only target creatures with it.
There are no official spells that I know that allow you to make objects invisible,but you can create optical illusions with Silent Image and Major Illusion, though they will not be perfect. The other way is Homebrewing the Invisibility spells to allow them to target objectsEdit: You could use the Wish spell, but that clearly is a waste and risks losing the ability to cast it permanently
2nd Edit: You can use Sequester to turn an object or creature invisible, though that is a 7th level spell.
No. In 2014 and presumably in 2024, creatures always know where you are even when you have cast invisibility, because perception accounts for hearing. To be unheard requires(ed) stealth. This is somewhat problematic in 2024 as it doesn't appear you can simply start stealthing if you are invisible, so opponents would always know where you are because they can hear you.
Greater Invisibility would essentially make a player or monster impossible to ever be hit, if they could only ever guess where you are. A player has a 1% chance of guessing where a character is (who can move 30 ft. in all directions) and then with disadvantage, would never be able to hit someone with greater invisibility. Hence why its required to take the hide action while invisible to actually be undetected.
This potentially doesn't work in 2024. The invisible spell doesn't grant you the conditions needed to take the hide action. So presumably you would need to run behind a wall to hide while invisible. And then that creates a whole other mess of having the same condition twice, but not having it twice.
And the hide action doesn't make you unheard anyway.