- Does Devil's Sight allow to see through Heavily Obscured area like Shadow of Moil? - Can Shadow Blade be used as a Pact Weapon for Pact of the Blade? - If yes, does Hex Warrior allow you to use your CHA modifier on Shadow Blade's attack and damage rolls when it's used as a Pact Weapon?
Pact of the Blade
As a Bonus Action, you can conjure a pact weapon in your hand—a Simple or Martial Melee weapon of your choice with which you bond—or create a bond with a magic weapon you touch; you can’t bond with a magic weapon if someone else is attuned to it or another Warlock is bonded with it. Until the bond ends, you have proficiency with the weapon, and you can use it as a Spellcasting Focus.
Hex Warrior
At 3rd level, you acquire the training necessary to effectively arm yourself for battle. You gain proficiency with medium armor, shields, and martial weapons.
The influence of your patron also allows you to mystically channel your will through a particular weapon. Whenever you finish a long rest, you can touch one weapon that you are proficient with and that lacks the two-handed property. When you attack with that weapon, you can use your Charisma modifier, instead of Strength or Dexterity, for the attack and damage rolls. This benefit lasts until you finish a long rest. If you later gain the Pact of the Blade feature, this benefit extends to every pact weapon you conjure with that feature, no matter the weapon’s type.
Shadow Blade
You weave together threads of shadow to create a sword of solidified gloom in your hand. This magic sword lasts until the spell ends. It counts as a simple melee weapon with which you are proficient. It deals 2d8 psychic damage on a hit and has the finesse, light, and thrown properties (range 20/60). In addition, when you use the sword to attack a target that is in dim light or darkness, you make the attack roll with advantage.
If you drop the weapon or throw it, it dissipates at the end of the turn. Thereafter, while the spell persists, you can use a bonus action to cause the sword to reappear in your hand.
Devil’s Sight
Prerequisite: Level 2+ Warlock
You can see normally in Dim Light and Darkness—both magical and nonmagical—within 120 feet of yourself.
- Can Shadow Blade be used as a Pact Weapon for Pact of the Blade? - If yes, does Hex Warrior allow you to use your CHA modifier on Shadow Blade's attack and damage rolls when it's used as a Pact Weapon?
- Does Devil's Sight allow to see through Heavily Obscured area like Shadow of Moil?
The rules for Vision and Light rules treats Obscured Areas and Bright/Dim light or Darkness as different concepts so I can't see Devil's Sight making any difference for the "you to become heavily obscured to others" part of Shadow of Moil. You should be able to see through the dim light/darkness part though.
So if I want to blind a Warlock that may have Devil's Sight, I'm better off using Fog Cloud instead of Darkness? The way I'm reading it, the only way to see through Fog Cloud other than relying on other senses is by having True Sight. Is that correct?
So if I want to blind a Warlock that may have Devil's Sight, I'm better off using Fog Cloud instead of Darkness? The way I'm reading it, the only way to see through Fog Cloud other than relying on other senses is by having True Sight. Is that correct?
Yes, that's correct. Devil's Sight only allows seeing through darkness, not through other blinding effects.
- Does Devil's Sight allow to see through Heavily Obscured area like Shadow of Moil?
The rules for Vision and Light rules treats Obscured Areas and Bright/Dim light or Darkness as different concepts so I can't see Devil's Sight making any difference for the "you to become heavily obscured to others" part of Shadow of Moil. You should be able to see through the dim light/darkness part though.
So if I want to blind a Warlock that may have Devil's Sight, I'm better off using Fog Cloud instead of Darkness? The way I'm reading it, the only way to see through Fog Cloud other than relying on other senses is by having True Sight. Is that correct?
Blindsight would also see through Fog Cloud but Warlock doesn't have easy access too Blindsight, however, if the Warlock had Pact of the Chain too, they might have a pseudodragon familiar and pseudodragons do have blindsight, thus it's not an impossible scenario that a warlock could "see" through Fog Cloud by using their familiar's senses.
Also blinding the warlock means blinding everybody else against the warlock using this method, you'd need a sense to sense them back. Blindsight is available to Fighter, Paladin and Ranger via fighting style, Rogue also gets Blindsight at level 18 but given the level, probably not relevant. Also the Skulker feat also grants blindsight. Notably in all these cases (except Rogue, 30ft), the blindsight is 10 foot, so it's going to disable most casting but not melee.
In the case of a familiar tho, the familiar could just leave the cloud of fog and that would allow the warlock too still see. So you'd have to take the familiar down to disable their eyes.
[...] Rogue also gets Blindsight at level 18 but given the level [...]
Sorry, R3sistance, one question: which feature is that?
The 2014 Rogue had a level 14 feature that provided a benefit similar to blindsight (though not quite the same). That is no longer in the 2024 version, though.
[...] Rogue also gets Blindsight at level 18 but given the level [...]
Sorry, R3sistance, one question: which feature is that?
The 2014 Rogue had a level 14 feature that provided a benefit similar to blindsight (though not quite the same). That is no longer in the 2024 version, though.
Yeah, it was Blindsense. As you said, now removed.
Blindsense Starting at 14th level, if you are able to hear, you are aware of the location of any hidden or invisible creature within 10 feet of you.
In the case of a familiar tho, the familiar could just leave the cloud of fog and that would allow the warlock too still see. So you'd have to take the familiar down to disable their eyes.
But in that case and without Blindsight, the familiar won't be able to see through the fog, right? Only what outside of it?
- Does Devil's Sight allow to see through Heavily Obscured area like Shadow of Moil? - Can Shadow Blade be used as a Pact Weapon for Pact of the Blade? - If yes, does Hex Warrior allow you to use your CHA modifier on Shadow Blade's attack and damage rolls when it's used as a Pact Weapon?
Pact of the Blade
As a Bonus Action, you can conjure a pact weapon in your hand—a Simple or Martial Melee weapon of your choice with which you bond—or create a bond with a magic weapon you touch; you can’t bond with a magic weapon if someone else is attuned to it or another Warlock is bonded with it. Until the bond ends, you have proficiency with the weapon, and you can use it as a Spellcasting Focus.
Since you seem to be using the 2024 Pact of the Blade Invocation, if you are willing to spend a Bonus Action to turn the Magic Sword that Shadow Blade creates into your Pact Weapon, I'd say that yes, you can do that. The Invocation also includes the ability to use Charisma to wield your Pact Weapon, so the Hex Warrior feature of the Legacy Hexblade subclass is not required for that. And of course, if you lose your Concentration, you'll lose the Shadow Blade, and won't have any Pact Weapons available until at least your next Bonus Action.
If you were instead using the 2014 Pact of the Blade Pact Boon, this would not work, as it would take one hour to bond to the Shadow Blade, and the duration of the Shadow Blade spell is one minute.
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🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
[...] The way I'm reading it, the only way to see through Fog Cloud other than relying on other senses is by having True Sight. Is that correct? [...]
AFAIK, Truesight can't see through Fog Cloud or any other Heavily Obscured area, unless the obscurement is caused by normal or magical Darkness which Truesight explicitly bypasses.
Wow. I had no idea that Fog Cloud was so much more effective as a blinding tool than Darkness :o (even though Darkness is level 2 and Fog Cloud only level 1)
Wow. I had no idea that Fog Cloud was so much more effective as a blinding tool than Darkness :o (even though Darkness is level 2 and Fog Cloud only level 1)
The tradeoff is that Darkness is harder to get rid of and eliminates magical light from lower-level sources.
- Does Devil's Sight allow to see through Heavily Obscured area like Shadow of Moil? - Can Shadow Blade be used as a Pact Weapon for Pact of the Blade? - If yes, does Hex Warrior allow you to use your CHA modifier on Shadow Blade's attack and damage rolls when it's used as a Pact Weapon?
Ah, didn't answer the last question: Yes, you can put Hex Warrior on your Shadow Blade, but it's not worth the effort to do so; You can only apply the effects of Hex Warrior upon finishing a Long Rest, and the Shadow Blade only exists for the duration of the spell. So you'd finish your Long Rest, cast Shadow Blade, make it your Hex Weapon, and one minute later (pending Concentration), that Shadow Blade ceases to exist. If you cast it again, it's not the same Shadow Blade.
If you want Charisma for Shadow Blade, you're much better off using the 2024 Pact of the Blade invocation, if you have it. The Hex Warrior Feature should probably be used on a different weapon that you can expect to exist for at least 24 hours.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
- Does Devil's Sight allow to see through Heavily Obscured area like Shadow of Moil?
- Can Shadow Blade be used as a Pact Weapon for Pact of the Blade?
- If yes, does Hex Warrior allow you to use your CHA modifier on Shadow Blade's attack and damage rolls when it's used as a Pact Weapon?
Thanks in advance :)
If not wrong, only Darkness but not other Heavily Obscured types.
Seems legit to me.
The rules for Vision and Light rules treats Obscured Areas and Bright/Dim light or Darkness as different concepts so I can't see Devil's Sight making any difference for the "you to become heavily obscured to others" part of Shadow of Moil. You should be able to see through the dim light/darkness part though.
So if I want to blind a Warlock that may have Devil's Sight, I'm better off using Fog Cloud instead of Darkness?
The way I'm reading it, the only way to see through Fog Cloud other than relying on other senses is by having True Sight.
Is that correct?
Yes, that's correct. Devil's Sight only allows seeing through darkness, not through other blinding effects.
Jeremy Crawford addressed this several years ago and he agrees: https://x.com/JeremyECrawford/status/1084904730789212160
Blindsight would also see through Fog Cloud but Warlock doesn't have easy access too Blindsight, however, if the Warlock had Pact of the Chain too, they might have a pseudodragon familiar and pseudodragons do have blindsight, thus it's not an impossible scenario that a warlock could "see" through Fog Cloud by using their familiar's senses.
Also blinding the warlock means blinding everybody else against the warlock using this method, you'd need a sense to sense them back. Blindsight is available to Fighter, Paladin and Ranger via fighting style, Rogue also gets Blindsight at level 18 but given the level, probably not relevant. Also the Skulker feat also grants blindsight. Notably in all these cases (except Rogue, 30ft), the blindsight is 10 foot, so it's going to disable most casting but not melee.
In the case of a familiar tho, the familiar could just leave the cloud of fog and that would allow the warlock too still see. So you'd have to take the familiar down to disable their eyes.
Sorry, R3sistance, one question: which feature is that?
The 2014 Rogue had a level 14 feature that provided a benefit similar to blindsight (though not quite the same). That is no longer in the 2024 version, though.
Yeah, it was Blindsense. As you said, now removed.
But in that case and without Blindsight, the familiar won't be able to see through the fog, right? Only what outside of it?
Since you seem to be using the 2024 Pact of the Blade Invocation, if you are willing to spend a Bonus Action to turn the Magic Sword that Shadow Blade creates into your Pact Weapon, I'd say that yes, you can do that. The Invocation also includes the ability to use Charisma to wield your Pact Weapon, so the Hex Warrior feature of the Legacy Hexblade subclass is not required for that. And of course, if you lose your Concentration, you'll lose the Shadow Blade, and won't have any Pact Weapons available until at least your next Bonus Action.
If you were instead using the 2014 Pact of the Blade Pact Boon, this would not work, as it would take one hour to bond to the Shadow Blade, and the duration of the Shadow Blade spell is one minute.
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Charisma Saving Throw: DC 18, Failure: 20d6 Psychic Damage, Success: Half damage
AFAIK, Truesight can't see through Fog Cloud or any other Heavily Obscured area, unless the obscurement is caused by normal or magical Darkness which Truesight explicitly bypasses.
Wow. I had no idea that Fog Cloud was so much more effective as a blinding tool than Darkness :o
(even though Darkness is level 2 and Fog Cloud only level 1)
The tradeoff is that Darkness is harder to get rid of and eliminates magical light from lower-level sources.
Sorry, got confused, it was Ranger, not Rogue I was looking at, so nevermind.
Ah, didn't answer the last question: Yes, you can put Hex Warrior on your Shadow Blade, but it's not worth the effort to do so; You can only apply the effects of Hex Warrior upon finishing a Long Rest, and the Shadow Blade only exists for the duration of the spell. So you'd finish your Long Rest, cast Shadow Blade, make it your Hex Weapon, and one minute later (pending Concentration), that Shadow Blade ceases to exist. If you cast it again, it's not the same Shadow Blade.
If you want Charisma for Shadow Blade, you're much better off using the 2024 Pact of the Blade invocation, if you have it. The Hex Warrior Feature should probably be used on a different weapon that you can expect to exist for at least 24 hours.
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Charisma Saving Throw: DC 18, Failure: 20d6 Psychic Damage, Success: Half damage