There are many threads about this topic already. You can search the forum and see all kinds of arguments for or against.
The best solution that I have seen is: Passive Perception is NOT an act of perceiving, it's a 6th sense (as well as being the lowest active perception result possible).
When the DM runs a group through a dungeon where a trap has a spot DC of 15 and one character has a passive equal or above that, the DM tells that player, "There's something about this room that nags at you... what do you do?" If they roll perception, they find 'it'. If the player does anything else for whatever reason, then they don't find the trap.
DM's job is to have options to choose from so rolling Perception doesn't become the obvious choice every time.
There are many threads about this topic already. You can search the forum and see all kinds of arguments for or against.
The best solution that I have seen is: Passive Perception is NOT an act of perceiving, it's a 6th sense (as well as being the lowest active perception result possible).
When the DM runs a group through a dungeon where a trap has a spot DC of 15 and one character has a passive equal or above that, the DM tells that player, "There's something about this room that nags at you... what do you do?" If they roll perception, they find 'it'. If the player does anything else for whatever reason, then they don't find the trap.
DM's job is to have options to choose from so rolling Perception doesn't become the obvious choice every time.
What other options? Your example is "give them a vague description and if they do anything but declare they roll perception they don't find it." Those aren't options for the player, they are a stick you hit the player with until the player learns to always say they roll perception.
Have to use the same prodding for many different checks, not just perception so it doesn't become a default:
A chest with a false bottom would require a Investigation check.
Tracks that would require a Survival check to notice or follow.
And so on. DM has to do some work to find ways to fit it in with many more of the skills available, but it is doable and makes passive perception/investigation/insight a useful skill for characters without breaking modules for DM's.
I treat it like - say you enter a room you've designed. There's a secret door behind a bookcase with a DC 15 perception check to spot it. Your Ranger/druid/rogue whoever enters the room with a passive perception of 17.
In the description of the room, then, you describe everything in the room and then say "Ranger, with your passive perception, you notice the bookcase on the far wall is unusually thick, and there are tracks in the dust around it suggesting it has been moved recently."
So they know something's there, but passive perception isn't going to tell them how to open it. That takes a perception or investigation roll.
Think everyone should take a close look at passive check as written in the PHB that is the base core statement. It has to main functions one is a passive check can represent a task that is done repeatedly over and over again. It's up to the DM not the player who decides to use this. It is only used basically to cut down dice rolls. Second is if the DM wishes to make a roll secret. It doesn't matter what other parts use because a roll can be substituted for it.
Jeremy Crawford was asked about this and is in a tweet. He stated passive checks are a dms tool to choose when to use. Which means they can never use it, some times use it and always use it.
Passive check is also not always on if the DM chooses to use it. Read the part about travel and that a DM can choose all or part of a group to use passive check to spot a threat. Perhaps the front or only the back. Also if players are doing so something else like navigating, map making etc they don't use their passive. Now take combat. This is maybe the reason there is an active search action that needs to be taken. So passive checks don't always happen.
As far as jeremy's comment about passive being the floor result he said only if passive checks are being used by the DM. Also in a tweet. However it is not written as RAW and I not see it in an errata for RAI. So to me that is a RAF option.
One of the major points about passive is it's about not rolling a die and that is up to the DM when or if that happens. If it's not something being repeated all over and over the first use is not applied. So it is only then up to the DM to use it as a secret check when the DM wishes.
Now some might think I am wrong but to me passive checks seem to be more aimed for non combat use. Then again a DM can decide any check become secret even in combat and use the passive check instead of a player rolling. Meaning I believe if a player decides to use a search action a DM could choose the secret check option instead of a player rolling a die. It would not fit the first option of a passive check.
In the end at the church core it's about an ability check and it can be done a roll or not and it's up to the DM.
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Also, if the party is all being Stealthy. Use "Group Checks" so that 1 bad roll in the group doesn't screw over the entire party's plan.
There are many threads about this topic already. You can search the forum and see all kinds of arguments for or against.
The best solution that I have seen is: Passive Perception is NOT an act of perceiving, it's a 6th sense (as well as being the lowest active perception result possible).
When the DM runs a group through a dungeon where a trap has a spot DC of 15 and one character has a passive equal or above that, the DM tells that player, "There's something about this room that nags at you... what do you do?" If they roll perception, they find 'it'. If the player does anything else for whatever reason, then they don't find the trap.
DM's job is to have options to choose from so rolling Perception doesn't become the obvious choice every time.
What other options?
Your example is "give them a vague description and if they do anything but declare they roll perception they don't find it."
Those aren't options for the player, they are a stick you hit the player with until the player learns to always say they roll perception.
Have to use the same prodding for many different checks, not just perception so it doesn't become a default:
And so on. DM has to do some work to find ways to fit it in with many more of the skills available, but it is doable and makes passive perception/investigation/insight a useful skill for characters without breaking modules for DM's.
I treat it like - say you enter a room you've designed. There's a secret door behind a bookcase with a DC 15 perception check to spot it. Your Ranger/druid/rogue whoever enters the room with a passive perception of 17.
In the description of the room, then, you describe everything in the room and then say "Ranger, with your passive perception, you notice the bookcase on the far wall is unusually thick, and there are tracks in the dust around it suggesting it has been moved recently."
So they know something's there, but passive perception isn't going to tell them how to open it. That takes a perception or investigation roll.
At this point, it's just an issue of DM style.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Think everyone should take a close look at passive check as written in the PHB that is the base core statement. It has to main functions one is a passive check can represent a task that is done repeatedly over and over again. It's up to the DM not the player who decides to use this. It is only used basically to cut down dice rolls. Second is if the DM wishes to make a roll secret. It doesn't matter what other parts use because a roll can be substituted for it.
Jeremy Crawford was asked about this and is in a tweet. He stated passive checks are a dms tool to choose when to use. Which means they can never use it, some times use it and always use it.
Passive check is also not always on if the DM chooses to use it. Read the part about travel and that a DM can choose all or part of a group to use passive check to spot a threat. Perhaps the front or only the back. Also if players are doing so something else like navigating, map making etc they don't use their passive. Now take combat. This is maybe the reason there is an active search action that needs to be taken. So passive checks don't always happen.
As far as jeremy's comment about passive being the floor result he said only if passive checks are being used by the DM. Also in a tweet. However it is not written as RAW and I not see it in an errata for RAI. So to me that is a RAF option.
One of the major points about passive is it's about not rolling a die and that is up to the DM when or if that happens. If it's not something being repeated all over and over the first use is not applied. So it is only then up to the DM to use it as a secret check when the DM wishes.
Now some might think I am wrong but to me passive checks seem to be more aimed for non combat use. Then again a DM can decide any check become secret even in combat and use the passive check instead of a player rolling. Meaning I believe if a player decides to use a search action a DM could choose the secret check option instead of a player rolling a die. It would not fit the first option of a passive check.
In the end at the church core it's about an ability check and it can be done a roll or not and it's up to the DM.