That's not what I meant. I meant, when they go down, are they dead?
Well, they're generally banished rather than dead, being summoned entities, but yes, they just get popped.
ItsScottish_ was asking as a DM what happens. RAW is that it is their choice whether it is dead or incapacitated. I am suggesting that they make the choice in a similar fashion as other companions.
I personally would not effectively break a magic item that is not explicitly expendable. It's not how I personally play, so I would have had the Guardian go down to saves. Animal companions are the best comparable scenario I could think of to guide consistent ruling. With Animal Companions, Familiars, and Paladin Mounts, even if "dead", they can be restored with a minor expense (a spell slot). A similar option could be used for the Shield Guardion, from any healing (Cure Spells if the Shield Guardian is not dead yet) to Raise Dead, Revivify, Resurrection, or True Resurrection. The resurrection path should work without any house ruling/retconning.
In any case, put me down in the I would run it differently column.
Still, I am just surprised that, even with its Maximum Hit Points reduced to 80, the Shield Guardian went down when it heals 10 HP a turn without any outside healing. It has a 17 AC, which isn't awful. It's been a while since I opened up the book, but what took it down? Immediate encounters should be well below the strength of the guardian and it should start every battle at full health.
I personally would not effectively break a magic item that is not explicitly expendable.
The mechanical benefits of a shield guardian are well in excess of the normal power level of a Rare item, so presumably the balancing factor for it being Rare (rather than, err, Legendary) is presumably the temporary nature of the item.
I personally would not effectively break a magic item that is not explicitly expendable.
The mechanical benefits of a shield guardian are well in excess of the normal power level of a Rare item, so presumably the balancing factor for it being Rare (rather than, err, Legendary) is presumably the temporary nature of the item.
If you say so but that is still irrelevant. The magic item is not, by design, an expendable resource, like a feather token. When you kill the guardian dead, you are taking a resource away from the party. And with the resilience and innate healing, I believe it would require a fairly deliberate effort to kill unless it was later in the adventure (which it doesn't sound like it was). So I would rule it differently and I suspect that either an aspect of the Shield Guardian was forgotten or the Guardian was deliberately targeted (or both).
If you say so but that is still irrelevant. The magic item is not, by design, an expendable resource, like a feather token.
If the item was meant to grant a permanent minion, it would have a power that allows you to recreate the golem when destroyed, or the golem would have a special power making it regenerate, because it's the nature of minions to be expendable and expended.
If you say so but that is still irrelevant. The magic item is not, by design, an expendable resource, like a feather token.
If the item was meant to grant a permanent minion, it would have a power that allows you to recreate the golem when destroyed, or the golem would have a special power making it regenerate, because it's the nature of minions to be expendable and expended.
The golem does have the power to regenerate. However, I don't think that's what you meant.
A rust monster can destroy nonmagical metal. While it is restricted to nonmagical metal, when it destroys a 1,500 GP suit of full plate, it doesn't make it a consumable item. That was a permanent item that got destroyed by a CR 1/2 creature.
The fact that a character can die does not make them expendable and the same is true for the Shield Guardian. Permanent things can be destroyed/killed.
You are either arguing to convince me that at my tables shield guardians should be dead at 0 HP with no recourse, which I am not going to budge on, or you are arguing with me about ItsScottish_'s campaign, which neither of us have a right to dictate how that game runs. The rules have been laid out and it is ItsScottish_'s choice. I am curious how the fight went but if they choose not to share, that's their prerogative.
ItsScottish_ was asking as a DM what happens. RAW is that it is their choice whether it is dead or incapacitated. I am suggesting that they make the choice in a similar fashion as other companions.
I personally would not effectively break a magic item that is not explicitly expendable. It's not how I personally play, so I would have had the Guardian go down to saves. Animal companions are the best comparable scenario I could think of to guide consistent ruling. With Animal Companions, Familiars, and Paladin Mounts, even if "dead", they can be restored with a minor expense (a spell slot). A similar option could be used for the Shield Guardion, from any healing (Cure Spells if the Shield Guardian is not dead yet) to Raise Dead, Revivify, Resurrection, or True Resurrection. The resurrection path should work without any house ruling/retconning.
In any case, put me down in the I would run it differently column.
Still, I am just surprised that, even with its Maximum Hit Points reduced to 80, the Shield Guardian went down when it heals 10 HP a turn without any outside healing. It has a 17 AC, which isn't awful. It's been a while since I opened up the book, but what took it down? Immediate encounters should be well below the strength of the guardian and it should start every battle at full health.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
The mechanical benefits of a shield guardian are well in excess of the normal power level of a Rare item, so presumably the balancing factor for it being Rare (rather than, err, Legendary) is presumably the temporary nature of the item.
If you say so but that is still irrelevant. The magic item is not, by design, an expendable resource, like a feather token. When you kill the guardian dead, you are taking a resource away from the party. And with the resilience and innate healing, I believe it would require a fairly deliberate effort to kill unless it was later in the adventure (which it doesn't sound like it was). So I would rule it differently and I suspect that either an aspect of the Shield Guardian was forgotten or the Guardian was deliberately targeted (or both).
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
If the item was meant to grant a permanent minion, it would have a power that allows you to recreate the golem when destroyed, or the golem would have a special power making it regenerate, because it's the nature of minions to be expendable and expended.
The golem does have the power to regenerate. However, I don't think that's what you meant.
A rust monster can destroy nonmagical metal. While it is restricted to nonmagical metal, when it destroys a 1,500 GP suit of full plate, it doesn't make it a consumable item. That was a permanent item that got destroyed by a CR 1/2 creature.
The fact that a character can die does not make them expendable and the same is true for the Shield Guardian. Permanent things can be destroyed/killed.
You are either arguing to convince me that at my tables shield guardians should be dead at 0 HP with no recourse, which I am not going to budge on, or you are arguing with me about ItsScottish_'s campaign, which neither of us have a right to dictate how that game runs. The rules have been laid out and it is ItsScottish_'s choice. I am curious how the fight went but if they choose not to share, that's their prerogative.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.