Imagine a Cloud Giant that can't seem to hit anyone due to unlucky dice that couldn't roll over a 10 even with advantage. In a moment of frustration, he jumped into the air like an Olympic vault to lan, butt first, on the opponents he couldn't hit. He rolls a modified 20 to hit. The opponents fail their Dex roll to avoid. He lands on all 3 doing 2d12 of damage, 2 dice for the 10 feet he fell and d12 because something huge warrants the size increase from d6.
A Cloud Giant stands 24 feet and weighs in at over 10,000 pounds. The opponents took 12 points of damage. This seems to be a flaw in the system. Anyone have a rationale? An alternative rule that makes sense?
Not sure why there is both an attack roll and a dex save, as for the rationale, taking a hit does not necessarily mean direct hit. A creature 4~5 times the size of an average human is going to struggle to properly hit a person by jumping or landing like this. Instead the adventurers are going to try and deflect the incoming creature to the best of their ability using shields, weapons, etc to the best of their ability.
Additionally adventurers are generally considered to be people far above the normal/average abilities of a normal commoner, a level 1 adventurer is already stronger than your average commoner and so those facing cloud giants usually have abnormal and supernatural abilities... to the average commoner, 12 points of damage is quiet lethal, in fact it's three times their maximum hit points meaning this is instant death for an average normal person.
The game's rules are not intended to be a perfect reflection of reality. They don't have the depth to cover all possibilities. They're also intended to produce a fun play experience rather than a strict simulation of physics.
Where the rules break down, this is where a GM, if so inclined, can step in. Want to say that the Cloud Giant stomp will deal 500 damage on a failed save and half on a successful one? You can do that as GM. But consider if you should do that.
Well, there are a few trains of thought on this. One is the definition of "Hit Points". Hit points are described not just as damage a person can take, but as their endurance and ability to avoid taking damage. A commoner might have 6 hit points, where a level 20 Barbarian can have over 200. Why is that? Is it because during their adventures they have developed the ability to literally take 30 or so arrow hits to their body without dying? No, probably not. More likely at level 20 when they get "hit" by an arrow, they are using their endurance and mastery to mostly avoid the hits, getting more tired as they go, until they get down to their last bit of hit points when the arrows finally start to actually make good hits.
From the 2014 PHB: "Hit points represent a combination of physical and mental durability, the will to live, and luck. Creatures with more hit points are more difficult to kill. Those with fewer hit points are more fragile."
So while the huge giant is "crushing" the party members, in all likelihood it would make sense they would mostly have gotten out of the way, not taking the full brunt of the giant's weight on them. It is the same logic for how adventurers don't immediately die when an ancient dragon breathes fire or acid on them, or a tarrasque hits them with its claws.
In general, I would say it makes sense that any improvised attack could only do at maximum the most damage of any of the stated attacks in the stat block. It would be odd for a giant to fight with their Thunderous Mace for a total maximum damage of 44 (2 attacks for 2024 stat block) when they could instead be doing 200 points of damage just by falling on people. We can assume the attacks listed in the stat block are that creature at their most deadly (and balanced).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Imagine a Cloud Giant that can't seem to hit anyone due to unlucky dice that couldn't roll over a 10 even with advantage. In a moment of frustration, he jumped into the air like an Olympic vault to lan, butt first, on the opponents he couldn't hit. He rolls a modified 20 to hit. The opponents fail their Dex roll to avoid. He lands on all 3 doing 2d12 of damage, 2 dice for the 10 feet he fell and d12 because something huge warrants the size increase from d6.
A Cloud Giant stands 24 feet and weighs in at over 10,000 pounds. The opponents took 12 points of damage. This seems to be a flaw in the system. Anyone have a rationale? An alternative rule that makes sense?
Thanks for your consideration.
Not sure why there is both an attack roll and a dex save, as for the rationale, taking a hit does not necessarily mean direct hit. A creature 4~5 times the size of an average human is going to struggle to properly hit a person by jumping or landing like this. Instead the adventurers are going to try and deflect the incoming creature to the best of their ability using shields, weapons, etc to the best of their ability.
Additionally adventurers are generally considered to be people far above the normal/average abilities of a normal commoner, a level 1 adventurer is already stronger than your average commoner and so those facing cloud giants usually have abnormal and supernatural abilities... to the average commoner, 12 points of damage is quiet lethal, in fact it's three times their maximum hit points meaning this is instant death for an average normal person.
The game's rules are not intended to be a perfect reflection of reality. They don't have the depth to cover all possibilities. They're also intended to produce a fun play experience rather than a strict simulation of physics.
Where the rules break down, this is where a GM, if so inclined, can step in. Want to say that the Cloud Giant stomp will deal 500 damage on a failed save and half on a successful one? You can do that as GM. But consider if you should do that.
Well, there are a few trains of thought on this. One is the definition of "Hit Points". Hit points are described not just as damage a person can take, but as their endurance and ability to avoid taking damage. A commoner might have 6 hit points, where a level 20 Barbarian can have over 200. Why is that? Is it because during their adventures they have developed the ability to literally take 30 or so arrow hits to their body without dying? No, probably not. More likely at level 20 when they get "hit" by an arrow, they are using their endurance and mastery to mostly avoid the hits, getting more tired as they go, until they get down to their last bit of hit points when the arrows finally start to actually make good hits.
From the 2014 PHB: "Hit points represent a combination of physical and mental durability, the will to live, and luck. Creatures with more hit points are more difficult to kill. Those with fewer hit points are more fragile."
So while the huge giant is "crushing" the party members, in all likelihood it would make sense they would mostly have gotten out of the way, not taking the full brunt of the giant's weight on them. It is the same logic for how adventurers don't immediately die when an ancient dragon breathes fire or acid on them, or a tarrasque hits them with its claws.
In general, I would say it makes sense that any improvised attack could only do at maximum the most damage of any of the stated attacks in the stat block. It would be odd for a giant to fight with their Thunderous Mace for a total maximum damage of 44 (2 attacks for 2024 stat block) when they could instead be doing 200 points of damage just by falling on people. We can assume the attacks listed in the stat block are that creature at their most deadly (and balanced).