I can't seem to find this anywhere, so I need to ask. Can a spell like Steelwind Strike damage enemies behind a Wall of Force? Wall of Force says nothing can physically pass through it but Steelwind Strike doesn't say you need to pass through objects, just that you can see your target. I've also checked other sources and online and people have said that Wall of Force provides total cover to those behind it, but I checked the spell and it doesn't say that?
I would say a target behind a Wall of Force has can't be targeted by Steel Wind Strike melee attacks because nothing can physically pass through the wall, even the wind that you narratively strike as not having a clear path to it.
The spell is somewhat oddly designed though, as it doesn't let you teleport next to each target you strike only after you attack, so you technically determine target within range from the space you cast the spell and it doesn't say it bypass cover or anything. Now the wall isn't said to be cover per se, but it's evident it block anything physical.
A Clear Path to the Target. To target something with a spell, a caster must have a clear path to it, so it can’t be behind Total Cover.
I can't seem to find this anywhere, so I need to ask. Can a spell like Steelwind Strike damage enemies behind a Wall of Force? Wall of Force says nothing can physically pass through it but Steelwind Strike doesn't say you need to pass through objects, just that you can see your target. I've also checked other sources and online and people have said that Wall of Force provides total cover to those behind it, but I checked the spell and it doesn't say that?
Yea it has always been a poorly worded spell. The designers never really managed to come up with a wording for transparent cover that used the actual terms of the rules but where the spell says "Nothing can physically pass through the wall" you should read that as "the wall provides total cover" because that's what it really means in game terms.
The 2014 rules had text that implied that you could target an AOE in a position that had total cover if you didn't know that it was behind cover which could potentially apply to transparent cover too. But in the 2024 rules that language is gone and anything behind total cover is an invalid target.
[...] The 2014 rules had text that implied that you could target an AOE in a position that had total cover if you didn't know that it was behind cover which could potentially apply to transparent cover too. But in the 2024 rules that language is gone and anything behind total cover is an invalid target.
[...] If the creator of an area of effect places it at an unseen point and an obstruction—such as a wall—is between the creator and that point, the point of origin comes into being on the near side of the obstruction.
@Frankiefivefingers, regarding Wall of Force blocking a clear path, it's something that's been discussed around the D&D world. I agree with the answers given in this thread, but there are also some unofficial rulings from the Devs if you want to follow them. For example:
@DerynDraconis Is a glass window considered a total cover for the purpose of targeting a creature with Hold Person spell? @JeremyECrawford A solid obstacle, regardless of material, can provide total cover. A closed window counts.
@Dan_Dillon_1 Targeting spells/clear path: "Unoccupied space you can see" Does this imply targeting? Conjure fey across Wall of Force? @JeremyECrawford Unless a spell says otherwise, you can't cast it at someone or something behind total cover.
@crathjen Wall of Force is invisible...so it doesn't provide cover does it? Blocks physical passage though. @JeremyECrawford Cover is a physical obstruction, not necessarily a visual one.
Also, here are some more or less recent threads/posts related to Wall of Force, in case they're helpful to you:
[...] The 2014 rules had text that implied that you could target an AOE in a position that had total cover if you didn't know that it was behind cover which could potentially apply to transparent cover too. But in the 2024 rules that language is gone and anything behind total cover is an invalid target.
[...] If the creator of an area of effect places it at an unseen point and an obstruction—such as a wall—is between the creator and that point, the point of origin comes into being on the near side of the obstruction.
Technically this rule only applies when selecting an unseen point as the point of origin.
I can't seem to find this anywhere, so I need to ask. Can a spell like Steelwind Strike damage enemies behind a Wall of Force? Wall of Force says nothing can physically pass through it but Steelwind Strike doesn't say you need to pass through objects, just that you can see your target. I've also checked other sources and online and people have said that Wall of Force provides total cover to those behind it, but I checked the spell and it doesn't say that?
A dungeon master will determine if the rules for Cover apply to a situation by following a three-step process.
First, we determine if the attack or other effect originates on the opposite side of something that could potentially provide cover. When it comes to spellcasting and the Clear Path rule, the use of the word "originates" in the rules for Cover is a bit unfortunate since it opens the door to the wrong sort of Rules Lawyers, but what this actually means in this context is whether or not the path from the spellcaster to the place where the spell effect originates is interrupted.
Second, we determine if the thing in question that could potentially provide cover is actually an "obstacle" which "provides a degree of protection to a target behind it". Are we talking about a cloud of fog? A large leaf or feather? A stone wall? The DM makes this determination.
Third, how much of the target's body is "covered" by the obstacle? Total cover is offered by "An object that covers the whole target".
So, if it is determined that a spellcaster is attempting to cast the spell "on the opposite side" of the Wall of Force AND it is determined that the Wall is a sufficient enough obstacle to provide a degree of protection (it definitely is -- nothing can physically pass through the Wall) AND it is determined that the whole target creature is located fully behind the wall (as opposed to peeking around the edge of it for some reason or something) THEN the Wall does provide total cover to that target creature and cannot be directly targeted by a spell due to a violation of the clear path rule.
Lastly, it is useful to double check how the spell in question actually works. Does it actually directly target the creature in question? For example, it is possible to target a creature that is behind total cover with a Fireball spell if the spellcaster is able to target a nearby point in space and the resulting AoE affects this creature.
In the case of Steel Wind Strike, it is an instantaneous duration spell with a Range of 30 feet and the creatures that are selected to receive the effects of this spell must be within this range. This is not an AoE spell. Instead, this spell directly targets those creatures (with a spell attack). Meaning, when the spell is cast, the magic is initiated at the spellcaster's location and it is cast at the target creatures, resulting in the spell effect originating directly within the target creatures. Once originated, the spell effect exists only within those target creatures and nowhere else. For all spells which are cast with this mechanic, by rule there must be a clear path (a straight line) between the spellcaster and these target creatures. If the Wall of Force completely covers the target creature such that there is no clear path, then that creature cannot be targeted by this spell.
[...] If the creator of an area of effect places it at an unseen point and an obstruction—such as a wall—is between the creator and that point, the point of origin comes into being on the near side of the obstruction.
Oh well there it is.
I really like that they added a glossary but this habit of theirs of adding rules in there that is only mentioned there is quite annoying.
Technically this rule only applies when selecting an unseen point as the point of origin.
Sure but I'd say that the more interesting question is why it applies at all. Why would the fact that the point of origin is unseen allow you to get around the "A Clear Path to the Target" rule? And yes I realise that this rule was in the 2014 rules too and I get that you could possibly make an "specific beats general" case her but still, it is kind of strange.
I would say a target behind a Wall of Force has can't be targeted by Steel Wind Strike melee attacks because nothing can physically pass through the wall, even the wind that you narratively strike as not having a clear path to it.
The spell is somewhat oddly designed though, as it doesn't let you teleport next to each target you strike only after you attack, so you technically determine target within range from the space you cast the spell and it doesn't say it bypass cover or anything. Now the wall isn't said to be cover per se, but it's evident it block anything physical.
A Clear Path to the Target. To target something with a spell, a caster must have a clear path to it, so it can’t be behind Total Cover.
I don't think you are striking with wind, its like the wind as in super fast. You are thematically vanishing and appearing next to each target, hitting them with a melee attack and ending up next to one target. Doing it so fast nothing but your final destination shows up as movement.
The basic determination imo is if it is all a teleport effect or just the final movement.
I would say a target behind a Wall of Force has can't be targeted by Steel Wind Strike melee attacks because nothing can physically pass through the wall, even the wind that you narratively strike as not having a clear path to it.
The spell is somewhat oddly designed though, as it doesn't let you teleport next to each target you strike only after you attack, so you technically determine target within range from the space you cast the spell and it doesn't say it bypass cover or anything. Now the wall isn't said to be cover per se, but it's evident it block anything physical.
A Clear Path to the Target. To target something with a spell, a caster must have a clear path to it, so it can’t be behind Total Cover.
I don't think you are striking with wind, its like the wind as in super fast. You are thematically vanishing and appearing next to each target, hitting them with a melee attack and ending up next to one target. Doing it so fast nothing but your final destination shows up as movement.
The basic determination imo is if it is all a teleport effect or just the final movement.
According to Steel Wind Strike's description, the only teleportation happens after the attacks are made, so the rule of a Clear Path to the Target still applies, but teleportation at the end is not restricted. The spell would have to explicitly involve teleportation between attacks or explicitly state that it is not blocked by Total Cover. You could teleport at the end to the other side of a Wall of Force, assuming you can do so and still be within 5 feet of one the targets.
I think you could target someone on the other side of a Wall of Force, have the attack fail because of the above reason, and still teleport to them at the end. This could be used to reunite with your group by targeting a teammate, for example.
I can't seem to find this anywhere, so I need to ask. Can a spell like Steelwind Strike damage enemies behind a Wall of Force? Wall of Force says nothing can physically pass through it but Steelwind Strike doesn't say you need to pass through objects, just that you can see your target. I've also checked other sources and online and people have said that Wall of Force provides total cover to those behind it, but I checked the spell and it doesn't say that?
I would say a target behind a Wall of Force has can't be targeted by Steel Wind Strike melee attacks because nothing can physically pass through the wall, even the wind that you narratively strike as not having a clear path to it.
The spell is somewhat oddly designed though, as it doesn't let you teleport next to each target you strike only after you attack, so you technically determine target within range from the space you cast the spell and it doesn't say it bypass cover or anything. Now the wall isn't said to be cover per se, but it's evident it block anything physical.
Yea it has always been a poorly worded spell. The designers never really managed to come up with a wording for transparent cover that used the actual terms of the rules but where the spell says "Nothing can physically pass through the wall" you should read that as "the wall provides total cover" because that's what it really means in game terms.
The 2014 rules had text that implied that you could target an AOE in a position that had total cover if you didn't know that it was behind cover which could potentially apply to transparent cover too. But in the 2024 rules that language is gone and anything behind total cover is an invalid target.
The rule is still in the 2024 PHB:
@Frankiefivefingers, regarding Wall of Force blocking a clear path, it's something that's been discussed around the D&D world. I agree with the answers given in this thread, but there are also some unofficial rulings from the Devs if you want to follow them. For example:
Also, here are some more or less recent threads/posts related to Wall of Force, in case they're helpful to you:
Technically this rule only applies when selecting an unseen point as the point of origin.
A dungeon master will determine if the rules for Cover apply to a situation by following a three-step process.
First, we determine if the attack or other effect originates on the opposite side of something that could potentially provide cover. When it comes to spellcasting and the Clear Path rule, the use of the word "originates" in the rules for Cover is a bit unfortunate since it opens the door to the wrong sort of Rules Lawyers, but what this actually means in this context is whether or not the path from the spellcaster to the place where the spell effect originates is interrupted.
Second, we determine if the thing in question that could potentially provide cover is actually an "obstacle" which "provides a degree of protection to a target behind it". Are we talking about a cloud of fog? A large leaf or feather? A stone wall? The DM makes this determination.
Third, how much of the target's body is "covered" by the obstacle? Total cover is offered by "An object that covers the whole target".
So, if it is determined that a spellcaster is attempting to cast the spell "on the opposite side" of the Wall of Force AND it is determined that the Wall is a sufficient enough obstacle to provide a degree of protection (it definitely is -- nothing can physically pass through the Wall) AND it is determined that the whole target creature is located fully behind the wall (as opposed to peeking around the edge of it for some reason or something) THEN the Wall does provide total cover to that target creature and cannot be directly targeted by a spell due to a violation of the clear path rule.
Lastly, it is useful to double check how the spell in question actually works. Does it actually directly target the creature in question? For example, it is possible to target a creature that is behind total cover with a Fireball spell if the spellcaster is able to target a nearby point in space and the resulting AoE affects this creature.
In the case of Steel Wind Strike, it is an instantaneous duration spell with a Range of 30 feet and the creatures that are selected to receive the effects of this spell must be within this range. This is not an AoE spell. Instead, this spell directly targets those creatures (with a spell attack). Meaning, when the spell is cast, the magic is initiated at the spellcaster's location and it is cast at the target creatures, resulting in the spell effect originating directly within the target creatures. Once originated, the spell effect exists only within those target creatures and nowhere else. For all spells which are cast with this mechanic, by rule there must be a clear path (a straight line) between the spellcaster and these target creatures. If the Wall of Force completely covers the target creature such that there is no clear path, then that creature cannot be targeted by this spell.
Oh well there it is.
I really like that they added a glossary but this habit of theirs of adding rules in there that is only mentioned there is quite annoying.
Sure but I'd say that the more interesting question is why it applies at all. Why would the fact that the point of origin is unseen allow you to get around the "A Clear Path to the Target" rule? And yes I realise that this rule was in the 2014 rules too and I get that you could possibly make an "specific beats general" case her but still, it is kind of strange.
I don't think you are striking with wind, its like the wind as in super fast. You are thematically vanishing and appearing next to each target, hitting them with a melee attack and ending up next to one target. Doing it so fast nothing but your final destination shows up as movement.
The basic determination imo is if it is all a teleport effect or just the final movement.
According to Steel Wind Strike's description, the only teleportation happens after the attacks are made, so the rule of a Clear Path to the Target still applies, but teleportation at the end is not restricted. The spell would have to explicitly involve teleportation between attacks or explicitly state that it is not blocked by Total Cover. You could teleport at the end to the other side of a Wall of Force, assuming you can do so and still be within 5 feet of one the targets.
I think you could target someone on the other side of a Wall of Force, have the attack fail because of the above reason, and still teleport to them at the end. This could be used to reunite with your group by targeting a teammate, for example.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.