What's supposed to happen if a player uses a Bead of Force in a room too small to contain the 20' diameter sphere? Happened recently in a game I'm DM'ing, and I sorta fudged it to keep the game running (the "bubble" conformed to the room's size, flattening on top and bottom, more like a "cheese wheel" shape than a sphere). Come to think of it, what should happen if it hits anywhere near the ground, considering that the point of impact is almost certainly less than 10' from the ground? Does the impact move the material from the ground (and ceiling, if necessary) out of the way, like it does creatures, leaving a crater? Does the bubble "move" upward, so that it can fully form? What if it can't (as in a room less that 20' high)?
If the sphere were immobile, I'd say it just "crosses through" whatever material is in its way... but given that it can be moved, easily, plus the fact that nothing but breathing air can pass through it, that doesn't work, unless moving the sphere also moved the material in it?
Hm, maybe that works... it traps the material in it, but since it only weighs one pound now, you can easily lift it out of the crater it left. On the other hand, if it detonated in a small room, moving it could prove impossible, since you wouldn't be able to "lift" it.
The rules say that 'any creature' that succeeds on their save is forced away from the centre. It mentions nothing about solid objects, walls, doors, floors or ceilings. The only other stipulation of what can and cannot pass through is 'breathable air' that can, but not attacks.
But of course, it's a sphere, so if you tried to tunnel underneath it, you'd only be able to tunnel 10 feet down before you hit the sphere's wall, and can tunnel no further. It wouldn't, however, leave a crater in the ground.
I'd rule it as you did - RAW, it conforms to the room.
Of course, you could have fun using it as a wrecking ball to smash down a keep's gate or something. Or get your hands on a Cube of Force, which has some pretty fun 'at your discretion' rules about ceilings and floors.
The rules say that 'any creature' that succeeds on their save is forced away from the centre. It mentions nothing about solid objects, walls, doors, floors or ceilings. The only other stipulation of what can and cannot pass through is 'breathable air' that can, but not attacks.
But of course, it's a sphere, so if you tried to tunnel underneath it, you'd only be able to tunnel 10 feet down before you hit the sphere's wall, and can tunnel no further. It wouldn't, however, leave a crater in the ground.
I'd rule it as you did - RAW, it conforms to the room.
Of course, you could have fun using it as a wrecking ball to smash down a keep's gate or something. Or get your hands on a Cube of Force, which has some pretty fun 'at your discretion' rules about ceilings and floors.
Don't think it'd work as a wrecking ball, since it only weighs one pound, unless you mean throwing it, unactivated, against the gate or wall, and having it gouge out a hole via its activation.
My problem with a RAW interpretation is that there is no mention of it conforming to the space around it, so that shouldn't work. Having it gouging out whatever non-living material it englobes should work, but then the "you can easily move it, since it weighs 1 pound" is kinda iffy, since it would only work aboveground, or when it hits something that's surrounded by empty space for 10' around. Otherwise it becomes embedded in the space it appears in, being held in by the crater(s) it made in the surrounding material. Plus, the description mentions nothing of the sort, regarding non-living material, other than "cannot pass".
The rules say that 'any creature' that succeeds on their save is forced away from the centre. It mentions nothing about solid objects, walls, doors, floors or ceilings. The only other stipulation of what can and cannot pass through is 'breathable air' that can, but not attacks.
But of course, it's a sphere, so if you tried to tunnel underneath it, you'd only be able to tunnel 10 feet down before you hit the sphere's wall, and can tunnel no further. It wouldn't, however, leave a crater in the ground.
I'd rule it as you did - RAW, it conforms to the room.
Of course, you could have fun using it as a wrecking ball to smash down a keep's gate or something. Or get your hands on a Cube of Force, which has some pretty fun 'at your discretion' rules about ceilings and floors.
Don't think it'd work as a wrecking ball, since it only weighs one pound, unless you mean throwing it, unactivated, against the gate or wall, and having it gouge out a hole via its activation.
My problem with a RAW interpretation is that there is no mention of it conforming to the space around it, so that shouldn't work. Having it gouging out whatever non-living material it englobes should work, but then the "you can easily move it, since it weighs 1 pound" is kinda iffy, since it would only work aboveground, or when it hits something that's surrounded by empty space for 10' around. Otherwise it becomes embedded in the space it appears in, being held in by the crater(s) it made in the surrounding material. Plus, the description mentions nothing of the sort, regarding non-living material, other than "cannot pass".
Yes, that's what I meant. Joking a little about some fun interpretation of the rules to suggest it can be used to 'force out' inorganic matter - like a keep door. Not RAW, but lots of fun!
I think the issue is that there are items, spells, etc that do stipulate whether it affects the room, which is why I referenced the Cube of Force. The item's description refers only to affecting 'creatures' that either make their save or not (and air). Therefore, I wouldn't say it affects anything else, whether the ground, solid objects like columns, walls, doors etc.
At my table, I'd rule that the sphere doesn't exactly 'conform to the room', but it doesn't gouge out a crater. You could tunnel downwards for 10 feet, and hit the base of the sphere, for example.
But it does, somewhat, stipulate whether it affects the room, when it says "Only breathable air can pass through the sphere's wall. No attack or other effect can.". The earth, wood, or stone of the floor of the room is not "breathable air", so it can't. If you move the sphere while it's "embedded" in the ground, and it just moves through the ground, then the ground is passing through it. Hence the conundrum. =/
Each creature within a 10-foot radius of where the bead landed must succeed on a DC 15 Dexterity saving throw or take 5d4 force damage. A sphere of transparent force then encloses the area for 1 minute.
It does damage to creatures, but not objects. It says THEN a sphere is created after the damage. I would rule that it ignores objects when creating this sphere and just forms around them. RAW it would generally include a bunch of dirt inside it's radius that would then stay inside the sphere if moved. Thus it could be used to cut a hole in a wall if properly positioned and subsequently rolled away.
Creatures that are only partially enclosed are pushed outside it, so i would say RAI it should ignore objects that do not fully fit inside it as well and would this not have any effect on the ground or nearby walls. Likely it would float above the ground
Each creature within a 10-foot radius of where the bead landed must succeed on a DC 15 Dexterity saving throw or take 5d4 force damage. A sphere of transparent force then encloses the area for 1 minute.
It does damage to creatures, but not objects. It says THEN a sphere is created after the damage. I would rule that it ignores objects when creating this sphere and just forms around them. RAW it would generally include a bunch of dirt inside it's radius that would then stay inside the sphere if moved. Thus it could be used to cut a hole in a wall if properly positioned and subsequently rolled away.
Creatures that are only partially enclosed are pushed outside it, so i would say RAI it should ignore objects that do not fully fit inside it as well and would this not have any effect on the ground or nearby walls. Likely it would float above the ground
What if there's no space for it to float above the ground? Like in any room less that 20' tall?
But it does, somewhat, stipulate whether it affects the room, when it says "Only breathable air can pass through the sphere's wall. No attack or other effect can.". The earth, wood, or stone of the floor of the room is not "breathable air", so it can't. If you move the sphere while it's "embedded" in the ground, and it just moves through the ground, then the ground is passing through it. Hence the conundrum. =/
I think this is more to to prevent an additional effect of suffocation, rather than to suggest it can be used to plough a tunnel through the entire dungeon. 'Passing through' suggests either being on the inside and trying to get out, or the outside and trying to get in - the physical properties of the room aren't mentioned, probably because they're irrelevant, as opposed to say a 'Cube of Force', which specifically mentions that it can affect the room if you want it to.
Of course, if you want to rule it the other way, you could. If not, I don't think you're breaking the rules by saying it doesn't carve out a sphere shaped hole wherever it goes.
But it does, somewhat, stipulate whether it affects the room, when it says "Only breathable air can pass through the sphere's wall. No attack or other effect can.". The earth, wood, or stone of the floor of the room is not "breathable air", so it can't. If you move the sphere while it's "embedded" in the ground, and it just moves through the ground, then the ground is passing through it. Hence the conundrum. =/
I think this is more to to prevent an additional effect of suffocation, rather than to suggest it can be used to plough a tunnel through the entire dungeon. 'Passing through' suggests either being on the inside and trying to get out, or the outside and trying to get in - the physical properties of the room aren't mentioned, probably because they're irrelevant, as opposed to say a 'Cube of Force', which specifically mentions that it can affect the room if you want it to.
Of course, if you want to rule it the other way, you could. If not, I don't think you're breaking the rules by saying it doesn't carve out a sphere shaped hole wherever it goes.
So you're suggesting it ignores terrain and structures entirely, and that the "only breathable air, no attacks or other effects" only applies to "active" effects like attacks, spells (whether harmful or helpful), etc.? As in, the force sphere passes through them (terrain and structures)? In that case, how would you handle someone pushing the sphere through a wall, with a trapped creature inside it? Would the sphere stop when the creature got pinned between the wall and the sphere's inside wall? That could work. Would the creature pass through the wall along with the sphere? That probably wouldn't work as well.
Yes, I'd rule the former. If you force a creature against a wall with the sphere (whether they're inside it, or on the outside), then they'd be trapped against the wall - although they can push the sphere for half their movement, so I wouldn't say they can be crushed. It only weighs one pound.
Yes, I'd rule the former. If you force a creature against a wall with the sphere (whether they're inside it, or on the outside), then they'd be trapped against the wall - although they can push the sphere for half their movement, so I wouldn't say they can be crushed. It only weighs one pound.
That sounds very reasonable. Thanks!
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What's supposed to happen if a player uses a Bead of Force in a room too small to contain the 20' diameter sphere? Happened recently in a game I'm DM'ing, and I sorta fudged it to keep the game running (the "bubble" conformed to the room's size, flattening on top and bottom, more like a "cheese wheel" shape than a sphere). Come to think of it, what should happen if it hits anywhere near the ground, considering that the point of impact is almost certainly less than 10' from the ground? Does the impact move the material from the ground (and ceiling, if necessary) out of the way, like it does creatures, leaving a crater? Does the bubble "move" upward, so that it can fully form? What if it can't (as in a room less that 20' high)?
If the sphere were immobile, I'd say it just "crosses through" whatever material is in its way... but given that it can be moved, easily, plus the fact that nothing but breathing air can pass through it, that doesn't work, unless moving the sphere also moved the material in it?
Hm, maybe that works... it traps the material in it, but since it only weighs one pound now, you can easily lift it out of the crater it left. On the other hand, if it detonated in a small room, moving it could prove impossible, since you wouldn't be able to "lift" it.
The rules say that 'any creature' that succeeds on their save is forced away from the centre. It mentions nothing about solid objects, walls, doors, floors or ceilings. The only other stipulation of what can and cannot pass through is 'breathable air' that can, but not attacks.
But of course, it's a sphere, so if you tried to tunnel underneath it, you'd only be able to tunnel 10 feet down before you hit the sphere's wall, and can tunnel no further. It wouldn't, however, leave a crater in the ground.
I'd rule it as you did - RAW, it conforms to the room.
Of course, you could have fun using it as a wrecking ball to smash down a keep's gate or something. Or get your hands on a Cube of Force, which has some pretty fun 'at your discretion' rules about ceilings and floors.
Don't think it'd work as a wrecking ball, since it only weighs one pound, unless you mean throwing it, unactivated, against the gate or wall, and having it gouge out a hole via its activation.
My problem with a RAW interpretation is that there is no mention of it conforming to the space around it, so that shouldn't work. Having it gouging out whatever non-living material it englobes should work, but then the "you can easily move it, since it weighs 1 pound" is kinda iffy, since it would only work aboveground, or when it hits something that's surrounded by empty space for 10' around. Otherwise it becomes embedded in the space it appears in, being held in by the crater(s) it made in the surrounding material. Plus, the description mentions nothing of the sort, regarding non-living material, other than "cannot pass".
Yes, that's what I meant. Joking a little about some fun interpretation of the rules to suggest it can be used to 'force out' inorganic matter - like a keep door. Not RAW, but lots of fun!
I think the issue is that there are items, spells, etc that do stipulate whether it affects the room, which is why I referenced the Cube of Force. The item's description refers only to affecting 'creatures' that either make their save or not (and air). Therefore, I wouldn't say it affects anything else, whether the ground, solid objects like columns, walls, doors etc.
At my table, I'd rule that the sphere doesn't exactly 'conform to the room', but it doesn't gouge out a crater. You could tunnel downwards for 10 feet, and hit the base of the sphere, for example.
But it does, somewhat, stipulate whether it affects the room, when it says "Only breathable air can pass through the sphere's wall. No attack or other effect can.". The earth, wood, or stone of the floor of the room is not "breathable air", so it can't. If you move the sphere while it's "embedded" in the ground, and it just moves through the ground, then the ground is passing through it. Hence the conundrum. =/
It does damage to creatures, but not objects. It says THEN a sphere is created after the damage. I would rule that it ignores objects when creating this sphere and just forms around them. RAW it would generally include a bunch of dirt inside it's radius that would then stay inside the sphere if moved. Thus it could be used to cut a hole in a wall if properly positioned and subsequently rolled away.
Creatures that are only partially enclosed are pushed outside it, so i would say RAI it should ignore objects that do not fully fit inside it as well and would this not have any effect on the ground or nearby walls. Likely it would float above the ground
What if there's no space for it to float above the ground? Like in any room less that 20' tall?
I think this is more to to prevent an additional effect of suffocation, rather than to suggest it can be used to plough a tunnel through the entire dungeon. 'Passing through' suggests either being on the inside and trying to get out, or the outside and trying to get in - the physical properties of the room aren't mentioned, probably because they're irrelevant, as opposed to say a 'Cube of Force', which specifically mentions that it can affect the room if you want it to.
Of course, if you want to rule it the other way, you could. If not, I don't think you're breaking the rules by saying it doesn't carve out a sphere shaped hole wherever it goes.
So you're suggesting it ignores terrain and structures entirely, and that the "only breathable air, no attacks or other effects" only applies to "active" effects like attacks, spells (whether harmful or helpful), etc.? As in, the force sphere passes through them (terrain and structures)? In that case, how would you handle someone pushing the sphere through a wall, with a trapped creature inside it? Would the sphere stop when the creature got pinned between the wall and the sphere's inside wall? That could work. Would the creature pass through the wall along with the sphere? That probably wouldn't work as well.
Yes, I'd rule the former. If you force a creature against a wall with the sphere (whether they're inside it, or on the outside), then they'd be trapped against the wall - although they can push the sphere for half their movement, so I wouldn't say they can be crushed. It only weighs one pound.
That sounds very reasonable. Thanks!