I don't... why is nobody pointing out that, even if you could cast Greater Restoration or Heal on the soul trapped in the ring, it wouldn't matter? The soul isn't afflicted by the effect needing to be healed by Greater Restoration or the injuries needing to be healed by Heal, the body is. What would be the value of casting those spells on the soul?
They’re feebleminded
Ask your DM. I would personally allow you to use something, possibly depending on your explanation being clever enough. But that's certainly not what the rules would generally say.
(Heal shouldn't be able to do it. It only ends Blindness, Deafness, and Poisoned. If feebleminded is a reduction in ability scores, you'd just have to convince me you can touch it for Greater Restoration. If it's actually a Befuddlement spell, i don't think either works. If nothing else, Wish can definitely do it).
*exhales* its a spell. That specifically calls out Heal and Greater Restoration as ways to cure the effect Feeblemind
Feeblemind or Befuddlement target a creature. I would expect that once the target dies, the spell ends as it no longer has a valid target. For the same reason, the spell could not be cast on the soul inside the ring.
I don't... why is nobody pointing out that, even if you could cast Greater Restoration or Heal on the soul trapped in the ring, it wouldn't matter? The soul isn't afflicted by the effect needing to be healed by Greater Restoration or the injuries needing to be healed by Heal, the body is. What would be the value of casting those spells on the soul?
They’re feebleminded
Ask your DM. I would personally allow you to use something, possibly depending on your explanation being clever enough. But that's certainly not what the rules would generally say.
(Heal shouldn't be able to do it. It only ends Blindness, Deafness, and Poisoned. If feebleminded is a reduction in ability scores, you'd just have to convince me you can touch it for Greater Restoration. If it's actually a Befuddlement spell, i don't think either works. If nothing else, Wish can definitely do it).
*exhales* its a spell. That specifically calls out Heal and Greater Restoration as ways to cure the effect Feeblemind
Feeblemind or Befuddlement target a creature. I would expect that once the target dies, the spell ends as it no longer has a valid target. For the same reason, the spell could not be cast on the soul inside the ring.
The implication is, at least with conditions like [Tooltip Not Found], that any conditions on the body continue to affect them, even after death. That's why spells like True Resurrection specifically remove negative conditions, curses, etc. on the resurrected creature, and lower-level spells have lesser effects that would need to be mitigated with things like Heal. You could argue either way, I suppose, but I'd rule that a Feeblemind cast in life could affect a soul, at least one that is still bound to the mortal plane, and would need to be resolved in some way, shape, or form.
That said, it sounds like this IS a story-based problem, and if it's a story-based problem, then your DM probably isn't looking for a rules-based solution. If your DM wants to allow you to restore the feebleminded soul with Heal or whatnot, then they will allow it, regardless of the official rulings. If you're asking here because there's friction at the table about it, then it's more likely that the DM wants you to pursue a story-based solution. Do that. Just because it's easier to bypass a problem with a spell doesn't mean that it's more fun.
I don't... why is nobody pointing out that, even if you could cast Greater Restoration or Heal on the soul trapped in the ring, it wouldn't matter? The soul isn't afflicted by the effect needing to be healed by Greater Restoration or the injuries needing to be healed by Heal, the body is. What would be the value of casting those spells on the soul?
They’re feebleminded
Ask your DM. I would personally allow you to use something, possibly depending on your explanation being clever enough. But that's certainly not what the rules would generally say.
(Heal shouldn't be able to do it. It only ends Blindness, Deafness, and Poisoned. If feebleminded is a reduction in ability scores, you'd just have to convince me you can touch it for Greater Restoration. If it's actually a Befuddlement spell, i don't think either works. If nothing else, Wish can definitely do it).
*exhales* its a spell. That specifically calls out Heal and Greater Restoration as ways to cure the effect Feeblemind
Feeblemind or Befuddlement target a creature. I would expect that once the target dies, the spell ends as it no longer has a valid target. For the same reason, the spell could not be cast on the soul inside the ring.
The implication is, at least with conditions like [Tooltip Not Found], that any conditions on the body continue to affect them, even after death. That's why spells like True Resurrection specifically remove negative conditions, curses, etc. on the resurrected creature, and lower-level spells have lesser effects that would need to be mitigated with things like Heal. You could argue either way, I suppose, but I'd rule that a Feeblemind cast in life could affect a soul, at least one that is still bound to the mortal plane, and would need to be resolved in some way, shape, or form.
That said, it sounds like this IS a story-based problem, and if it's a story-based problem, then your DM probably isn't looking for a rules-based solution. If your DM wants to allow you to restore the feebleminded soul with Heal or whatnot, then they will allow it, regardless of the official rulings. If you're asking here because there's friction at the table about it, then it's more likely that the DM wants you to pursue a story-based solution. Do that. Just because it's easier to bypass a problem with a spell doesn't mean that it's more fun.
The issue I have there is a Ring of Mind Shielding doesn't specify if the soul of a deceased creature retains its mental ability scores, saving throws, skill proficiencies, or even languages. If it's affected by spells like Befuddlement and Feeblemind, then it cannot repeat the saving throw to recover.
I would say the condition reasserts itself upon resurrection, at which point it can be treated. Until then, the soul is perfectly fine. The spells attack the body and mind, not the spirit.
You caught me I am a DM who was fishing for ideas because my players are looking for a way to transfer soul from a phylactery and thought this would be a good starting point. (The phylactery is a religious artifact that the pcs do not wish to destroy)
You caught me I am a DM who was fishing for ideas because my players are looking for a way to transfer soul from a phylactery and thought this would be a good starting point. (The phylactery is a religious artifact that the pcs do not wish to destroy)
In that case, maybe let them. It’s an interesting idea. Then decide how hard you want it to be. Could be as simple as a persuasion check to convince the soul to move. Or, you act like this has always been the idea, and they figured it out. (Half the stuff I have my players do is based on stealing ideas they had when they were talking things through. Players love it. It lets them feel like they solved the puzzle.) If you want, you can always make it into a side quest. They can transfer the soul from one to another, but they need some other artifact, or ritual spell, or special location, or combination of those, to pull it off.
Given that it sounds like this is already a pretty high level campaign, I think I'd center the quest around True Resurrection (it cures magical contagions, I'd think that would count). To cast that, you're going to either need a body or a name, which is a good opportunity for some detective work by the players. Even though it's feebleminded/Befuddled, it might have an accent or dialect, it might use archaic words or phrases, it might drop the occasional word which hints at something it did or saw. Now it's time for Knowledge: History or some divination magic. Can they identify a location to look for a body? Can they find an historical figure which is a plausible match to what clues they can get? (Anyone who's had an 8th level spell cast at them was probably pretty significant). They can always Contact Other Plane or Commune to get some help / more clues. Legend Lore also sounds useful. Let the players propose ways forward when they run into difficulty, and say 'yes' whenever something is plausible.
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Feeblemind or Befuddlement target a creature. I would expect that once the target dies, the spell ends as it no longer has a valid target. For the same reason, the spell could not be cast on the soul inside the ring.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
The implication is, at least with conditions like [Tooltip Not Found], that any conditions on the body continue to affect them, even after death. That's why spells like True Resurrection specifically remove negative conditions, curses, etc. on the resurrected creature, and lower-level spells have lesser effects that would need to be mitigated with things like Heal. You could argue either way, I suppose, but I'd rule that a Feeblemind cast in life could affect a soul, at least one that is still bound to the mortal plane, and would need to be resolved in some way, shape, or form.
That said, it sounds like this IS a story-based problem, and if it's a story-based problem, then your DM probably isn't looking for a rules-based solution. If your DM wants to allow you to restore the feebleminded soul with Heal or whatnot, then they will allow it, regardless of the official rulings. If you're asking here because there's friction at the table about it, then it's more likely that the DM wants you to pursue a story-based solution. Do that. Just because it's easier to bypass a problem with a spell doesn't mean that it's more fun.
The issue I have there is a Ring of Mind Shielding doesn't specify if the soul of a deceased creature retains its mental ability scores, saving throws, skill proficiencies, or even languages. If it's affected by spells like Befuddlement and Feeblemind, then it cannot repeat the saving throw to recover.
I would say the condition reasserts itself upon resurrection, at which point it can be treated. Until then, the soul is perfectly fine. The spells attack the body and mind, not the spirit.
You caught me I am a DM who was fishing for ideas because my players are looking for a way to transfer soul from a phylactery and thought this would be a good starting point. (The phylactery is a religious artifact that the pcs do not wish to destroy)
In that case, maybe let them. It’s an interesting idea. Then decide how hard you want it to be. Could be as simple as a persuasion check to convince the soul to move.
Or, you act like this has always been the idea, and they figured it out. (Half the stuff I have my players do is based on stealing ideas they had when they were talking things through. Players love it. It lets them feel like they solved the puzzle.) If you want, you can always make it into a side quest. They can transfer the soul from one to another, but they need some other artifact, or ritual spell, or special location, or combination of those, to pull it off.
Given that it sounds like this is already a pretty high level campaign, I think I'd center the quest around True Resurrection (it cures magical contagions, I'd think that would count). To cast that, you're going to either need a body or a name, which is a good opportunity for some detective work by the players. Even though it's feebleminded/Befuddled, it might have an accent or dialect, it might use archaic words or phrases, it might drop the occasional word which hints at something it did or saw. Now it's time for Knowledge: History or some divination magic. Can they identify a location to look for a body? Can they find an historical figure which is a plausible match to what clues they can get? (Anyone who's had an 8th level spell cast at them was probably pretty significant). They can always Contact Other Plane or Commune to get some help / more clues. Legend Lore also sounds useful. Let the players propose ways forward when they run into difficulty, and say 'yes' whenever something is plausible.