When you cast a spell that requires Concentration, you can distribute the mental load of the spell among you and the secondary casters. Once the casting is complete, you and all secondary casters can maintain Concentration on this spell. As long as at least one caster who contributed to the spell maintains this Concentration, the spell’s effects remain active.
I think I already know the answers to this, but I want to see if people agree with me.
If anything breaks one of the casters' Concentration, that is it for them. They cannot 'rejoin' and pick up part of the load once more.
As a result, there is no requirement to 'break all Concentration within the same round'.
e.g.: A Cleric casts Conjure Celestial with the Distribute option and two other casters help out as secondary casters. The monsters don't like conjured celestials frying their butts and healing the PCs and target the casters. On the very first round they take down the obvious target, the Cleric, and knock him down to 0 hp. The spell continues to function, however, because the other two casters maintain Concentration.
Round 2: The monsters wonder why the celestial is still there and decide to see if beating on the Wizard will help things. They do not take him down, but they do cause him to fail a CON Save and lose his Concentration. As soon as his Initiative comes up, he Misty Steps away and hides behind the rest of the party.
Round 3: The monsters bash on the Paladin in the hopes of making the celestial go away, but he wasn't a secondary caster, so there is no effect. Even though no one is attacking the Wizard he cannot do anything to 'pick back up' Concentrating on the spell.
Round 4: The monsters start attacking at random and end up breaking the Concentration of the Bard who was the other secondary caster and that annoying celestial finally goes away.
Is this correct?
As a second question, even though the two casters maintained Concentration, since neither was the original caster I am assuming they could neither move the area of the spell, nor decide whether it did damage or healing on creatures that passed through it (ignore the obvious question of why they maintained Concentration in such a case). Is this correct?
At first, I read it like each of them could jump in and out of concentration whenever they wanted as long as the spell was still active. But I think that your interpretation is better -- once you're out, you're out.
Your example scenario seems legit.
The only part that could have an alternate interpretation is related to your second question. Suppose the Cleric was picked back up right away. His concentration on the spell is broken, but the spell IS still active. The spell description says:
"whenever a creature you (the Cleric) can see enters the Cylinder or ends its turn there, you can bathe it in one of the lights."
and
"Until the spell ends . . . when you (the Cleric) move on your turn, you can also move the Cylinder up to 30 feet."
There is not actually an explicit requirement in the spell description that you must be maintaining concentration on the spell in order for you to be able to perform the above two activities -- only that the spell has not yet ended. Of course, for normal single spellcasting, when concentration is broken the spell automatically ends immediately. So, it's a little weird. I also don't see any general rule within Circle Magic's mechanics which would enforce maintaining concentration in order to perform such activities either. Although logically it sort of seems like it should be that way.
"Unless otherwise specified, you as the primary caster decide the spell’s targets, maintain Concentration if required by the spell’s Duration entry, provide the spell’s components, expend the slot for casting the spell, and decide any of the other options noted in the spell’s description. The spell’s effects originate from you."
What this means for a Summon Celestial spell with Distribute:
-You still control the spell while it's active, not the others concentrating with you -Concentration is split because Distribute overrides, but each involved caster can maintain the spell; only one needs to maintain concentration for the spell to remain active -You still need to have the material component, not one of the secondary casters -You must still spend the spell slot (spells cast without a slot, no matter how, are ineligible for Circle Magic) -The spell originating from you means it must start within 90 feet of you, not a secondary caster
As a second question, even though the two casters maintained Concentration, since neither was the original caster I am assuming they could neither move the area of the spell, nor decide whether it did damage or healing on creatures that passed through it (ignore the obvious question of why they maintained Concentration in such a case). Is this correct?
Yea the cleric would be the only one controlling it and I'd have to agree with @up2ng that they could do so again if they got healed back up. I would even say that if the spell was an emanation it would stay going around the unconscious cleric (possibly even the dead cleric) as long as the spell stays active.
As a second question, even though the two casters maintained Concentration, since neither was the original caster I am assuming they could neither move the area of the spell, nor decide whether it did damage or healing on creatures that passed through it (ignore the obvious question of why they maintained Concentration in such a case). Is this correct?
This is a great question, and one they really should have thought to cover in the Distribute section
Pure letter of the RAW though, nothing in those spell descriptions say the caster has to be maintaining concentration to give those orders. They generally just say "until the spell ends, you can do..." X and Y, and it's assumed that dropping concentration would end the spell. Except in this case, it doesn't
Edoumiaond Willegume "Eddie" Podslee, Vegetanian scholar (College of Spirits bard) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator (Assassin rogue) Peter "the Pied Piper" Hausler, human con artist/remover of vermin (Circle of the Shepherd druid) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
At first, I read it like each of them could jump in and out of concentration whenever they wanted as long as the spell was still active. But I think that your interpretation is better -- once you're out, you're out.
Your example scenario seems legit.
The only part that could have an alternate interpretation is related to your second question. Suppose the Cleric was picked back up right away. His concentration on the spell is broken, but the spell IS still active. The spell description says:
"whenever a creature you (the Cleric) can see enters the Cylinder or ends its turn there, you can bathe it in one of the lights."
and
"Until the spell ends . . . when you (the Cleric) move on your turn, you can also move the Cylinder up to 30 feet."
There is not actually an explicit requirement in the spell description that you must be maintaining concentration on the spell in order for you to be able to perform the above two activities -- only that the spell has not yet ended. Of course, for normal single spellcasting, when concentration is broken the spell automatically ends immediately. So, it's a little weird. I also don't see any general rule within Circle Magic's mechanics which would enforce maintaining concentration in order to perform such activities either. Although logically it sort of seems like it should be that way.
"Unless otherwise specified, you as the primary caster decide the spell’s targets, maintain Concentration if required by the spell’s Duration entry, provide the spell’s components, expend the slot for casting the spell, and decide any of the other options noted in the spell’s description. The spell’s effects originate from you."
What this means for a Summon Celestial spell with Distribute:
-You still control the spell while it's active, not the others concentrating with you -Concentration is split because Distribute overrides, but each involved caster can maintain the spell; only one needs to maintain concentration for the spell to remain active -You still need to have the material component, not one of the secondary casters -You must still spend the spell slot (spells cast without a slot, no matter how, are ineligible for Circle Magic) -The spell originating from you means it must start within 90 feet of you, not a secondary caster
Yes, this brings up a second thought I had last night;
By the RAW it would appear that if the cleric is healed they still cannot reestablish Concentration on the spell, yet they are completely capable of once again causing the AoE to move and to regulate Damage and Healing (which possibly explains why the Wizard and Bard maintained Concentration even though the spell stopped doing damage). Do people agree with that summary?
(and, if it looks like I'm trying to build up to some spectacular loophole, I promise I'm not. I'm just taking in what people are saying, processing it, and then figuring out new questions raised).
I will point out that it appears, if this is the case, that an Arcane Trickster could be a secondary caster, have Concentration Distributed to them, then find a convenient hole to crawl in so that it becomes nearly impossible to disrupt the spell.
That's correct. No matter what happens, only the primary caster controls the spell, and anyone holding Concentration is enough to allow them to control it even if they've been downed.
About hiding away: Don't think it's 100% foolproof. Dispel Magic still breaks it.
I will point out that it appears, if this is the case, that an Arcane Trickster could be a secondary caster, have Concentration Distributed to them, then find a convenient hole to crawl in so that it becomes nearly impossible to disrupt the spell.
An Eldritch Knight could do quite well while still staying in the fight.
That's correct. No matter what happens, only the primary caster controls the spell, and anyone holding Concentration is enough to allow them to control it even if they've been downed.
About hiding away: Don't think it's 100% foolproof. Dispel Magic still breaks it.
I will point out that it appears, if this is the case, that an Arcane Trickster could be a secondary caster, have Concentration Distributed to them, then find a convenient hole to crawl in so that it becomes nearly impossible to disrupt the spell.
An Eldritch Knight could do quite well while still staying in the fight.
Yeah, I know it isn't foolproof and I'm not even advocating for people to play this way. I am merely positing the possibility of characters functioning as 'Concentration Batteries' and making it significantly harder for smart opponents to disrupt spells such as Conjure Celestial. Sure, Dispel Magic is an option, but the traditional solution has typically been to smack the caster hard enough to lose Concentration since A) it doesn't burn a spell slot and B) it does damage.
I will point out that it appears, if this is the case, that an Arcane Trickster could be a secondary caster, have Concentration Distributed to them, then find a convenient hole to crawl in so that it becomes nearly impossible to disrupt the spell.
Depending on how important it is for Concentration to be maintained, there is nothing saying that the secondary casters need to stay on the same plane. There are very few practical uses that I can think of. What spell would you abuse if you tell your Warforged Spellcaster buddy to concentrate for you while they hop in a Portable Hole? Spellfire Storm would seem like a decent candidate except that as a Circle Spell, it no longer requires concentration.
I think I already know the answers to this, but I want to see if people agree with me.
If anything breaks one of the casters' Concentration, that is it for them. They cannot 'rejoin' and pick up part of the load once more.
As a result, there is no requirement to 'break all Concentration within the same round'.
e.g.: A Cleric casts Conjure Celestial with the Distribute option and two other casters help out as secondary casters. The monsters don't like conjured celestials frying their butts and healing the PCs and target the casters. On the very first round they take down the obvious target, the Cleric, and knock him down to 0 hp. The spell continues to function, however, because the other two casters maintain Concentration.
Round 2: The monsters wonder why the celestial is still there and decide to see if beating on the Wizard will help things. They do not take him down, but they do cause him to fail a CON Save and lose his Concentration. As soon as his Initiative comes up, he Misty Steps away and hides behind the rest of the party.
Round 3: The monsters bash on the Paladin in the hopes of making the celestial go away, but he wasn't a secondary caster, so there is no effect. Even though no one is attacking the Wizard he cannot do anything to 'pick back up' Concentrating on the spell.
Round 4: The monsters start attacking at random and end up breaking the Concentration of the Bard who was the other secondary caster and that annoying celestial finally goes away.
Is this correct?
As a second question, even though the two casters maintained Concentration, since neither was the original caster I am assuming they could neither move the area of the spell, nor decide whether it did damage or healing on creatures that passed through it (ignore the obvious question of why they maintained Concentration in such a case). Is this correct?
At first, I read it like each of them could jump in and out of concentration whenever they wanted as long as the spell was still active. But I think that your interpretation is better -- once you're out, you're out.
Your example scenario seems legit.
The only part that could have an alternate interpretation is related to your second question. Suppose the Cleric was picked back up right away. His concentration on the spell is broken, but the spell IS still active. The spell description says:
"whenever a creature you (the Cleric) can see enters the Cylinder or ends its turn there, you can bathe it in one of the lights."
and
"Until the spell ends . . . when you (the Cleric) move on your turn, you can also move the Cylinder up to 30 feet."
There is not actually an explicit requirement in the spell description that you must be maintaining concentration on the spell in order for you to be able to perform the above two activities -- only that the spell has not yet ended. Of course, for normal single spellcasting, when concentration is broken the spell automatically ends immediately. So, it's a little weird. I also don't see any general rule within Circle Magic's mechanics which would enforce maintaining concentration in order to perform such activities either. Although logically it sort of seems like it should be that way.
The example is correct.
Circle Magic states that:
"Unless otherwise specified, you as the primary caster decide the spell’s targets, maintain Concentration if required by the spell’s Duration entry, provide the spell’s components, expend the slot for casting the spell, and decide any of the other options noted in the spell’s description. The spell’s effects originate from you."
What this means for a Summon Celestial spell with Distribute:
-You still control the spell while it's active, not the others concentrating with you
-Concentration is split because Distribute overrides, but each involved caster can maintain the spell; only one needs to maintain concentration for the spell to remain active
-You still need to have the material component, not one of the secondary casters
-You must still spend the spell slot (spells cast without a slot, no matter how, are ineligible for Circle Magic)
-The spell originating from you means it must start within 90 feet of you, not a secondary caster
I'd have to agree with the others, it looks correct.
Yea the cleric would be the only one controlling it and I'd have to agree with @up2ng that they could do so again if they got healed back up. I would even say that if the spell was an emanation it would stay going around the unconscious cleric (possibly even the dead cleric) as long as the spell stays active.
This is a great question, and one they really should have thought to cover in the Distribute section
Pure letter of the RAW though, nothing in those spell descriptions say the caster has to be maintaining concentration to give those orders. They generally just say "until the spell ends, you can do..." X and Y, and it's assumed that dropping concentration would end the spell. Except in this case, it doesn't
Active characters:
Edoumiaond Willegume "Eddie" Podslee, Vegetanian scholar (College of Spirits bard)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator (Assassin rogue)
Peter "the Pied Piper" Hausler, human con artist/remover of vermin (Circle of the Shepherd druid)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Yes, this brings up a second thought I had last night;
By the RAW it would appear that if the cleric is healed they still cannot reestablish Concentration on the spell, yet they are completely capable of once again causing the AoE to move and to regulate Damage and Healing (which possibly explains why the Wizard and Bard maintained Concentration even though the spell stopped doing damage). Do people agree with that summary?
(and, if it looks like I'm trying to build up to some spectacular loophole, I promise I'm not. I'm just taking in what people are saying, processing it, and then figuring out new questions raised).
I will point out that it appears, if this is the case, that an Arcane Trickster could be a secondary caster, have Concentration Distributed to them, then find a convenient hole to crawl in so that it becomes nearly impossible to disrupt the spell.
That's correct. No matter what happens, only the primary caster controls the spell, and anyone holding Concentration is enough to allow them to control it even if they've been downed.
About hiding away: Don't think it's 100% foolproof. Dispel Magic still breaks it.
An Eldritch Knight could do quite well while still staying in the fight.
Yeah, I know it isn't foolproof and I'm not even advocating for people to play this way. I am merely positing the possibility of characters functioning as 'Concentration Batteries' and making it significantly harder for smart opponents to disrupt spells such as Conjure Celestial. Sure, Dispel Magic is an option, but the traditional solution has typically been to smack the caster hard enough to lose Concentration since A) it doesn't burn a spell slot and B) it does damage.
Depending on how important it is for Concentration to be maintained, there is nothing saying that the secondary casters need to stay on the same plane. There are very few practical uses that I can think of. What spell would you abuse if you tell your Warforged Spellcaster buddy to concentrate for you while they hop in a Portable Hole? Spellfire Storm would seem like a decent candidate except that as a Circle Spell, it no longer requires concentration.
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My houserulings.