So as the spell is cast it can essentially have 2 attacks afterwards I read it as you have your Action (to attack or otherwise) and may use your bonus action to attack with the Spiritual Weapon.
You can attack (or cast a cantrip) as your action and then cast the spell (it's a bonus action to cast).
Then on subsequent turns, you can use your action for whatever (likely to attack or cast another spell), and then a bonus action to make the Spiritual Weapon move up to 20 feet and attack.
The Spiritual Weapon attack + Spiritual Weapon attack is stronger than a basic attack/cantrip + Spiritual Weapon attack if you allow a bonus action to be used in place of a standard action.
This is even more noticeable with a spell like Bigby's Grasping Hand (concentration up to 1 minute) which allows you to use a bonus action to move up to 60 feet AND grapple an enemy or crush a grappled enemy (2d6+1d6 for every spell slot after 5th). So, the most OP way of using this spell in an open field is 60 feet of movement STRAIGHT UP until the creature is 210 feet in the air (the maximum amount of falling damage is 20d6). Normally it would take 7 rounds of movement to get the enemy that high. So assuming you use the other 3 rounds to do Clenched fist (to make an attack) and, as to not increase the total spell cost, we use a cantrip for our action every round (let's say Fire Bolt which is 2d10 at 9th level - when you first get Bigby's Hand): You're looking at 99 (18d10) firebolt damage, 54 (12d8) Clench damage, 49 (14d6) Grasp damage, and 70 (20d6) falling damage. So you're looking at a potential 263 damage if all fire bolts and Clenching Fists hit. If we assume only 75% of the fire bolts hit and 2 of the Clenching Fists hit, you're looking at ~221 damage instead (that's still being generous with 75%).
Now let's look at the same situation but with double bonus actions. It'll only take 4 rounds to get the enemy at max distance (0.5 round to start the grapple and 3.5 rounds of movement/grasping). That means you can do 6 rounds of double clenching or 12 clenches so 216 (48d8) Clench Damage, same 49 grasp and 70 falling, for 335 potential damage (if all Clenches hit); 281 with the same 75% hit chance. That's ~60 damage over 10 rounds (so 6 DPR increase).
It gets even worse when you are thinking of it in regards to a non-plain type environment, like say near a cliff or castle wall.
Rd 1: Cast spell + Grab an enemy > Move 30 feet to edge + Grasp + Drop Rd 2: Move up to 60 feet and grapple the next enemy > Move 30 feet to edge + Grasp + Drop Rd 3: Move up to 60 feet and grapple the next enemy > Move 30 feet to edge + Grasp + Drop Rd 4: Move up to 60 feet and grapple the next enemy > Move 30 feet to edge + Grasp + Drop Rd 5: Move up to 60 feet and grapple the next enemy > Move 30 feet to edge + Grasp + Drop Rd 6-10: Give each of your friends a high five AND to the side (assuming they haven't fallen asleep in the time it took you to solo 5 enemies).
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
The way I read the Bigby's Hand spell is you would not be able to lift something up in the air after grasping it. If you read the text for forceful hand, you can only push them 5 feet plus 5 times your spell casting modifier away from you. The grasping just says crush for 2d6+spell mod damage. So if you used your action as a bonus action to crush 2 times in a round. You would do 2d6+spell mod + 2d6+spell mod in 1 round. This will average 22 damage assuming character has an +4 spell mod. By contrast if you crushed for 2d6+spell mod and cast Fire Bolt cantrip, 2d10, as an action. You would average 23 damage. So technically using your action to cast the cantrip is more damage then using your action as a bonus action to crush 2 times. So even if you allowed the caster to also move the enemy straight up. It would still be better to cast the cantrip + crush then double crush. Also, the max range on the spell is 120 feet, so it would only take 2 rounds to reach max height.
Why would spiritual weapon be a problem? You still have to use a bonus action to attack with it. So casting two spiritual weapons still only allows one extra attack since you only have one bonus action unless you also change the spell text to allow the subsequent use of the spell with either an action or bonus action.
What would the ruling be if you were to use Action Surge? Does the ability to have another action give you another bonus action as well?
No. You only ever get one bonus action and must choose which one. The only way that would change is for it to explicitly say you get two bonus actions (specific beats general). Action surge only specifically talks about adding an additional action. The mention of a possible bonus action is referencing that on any given turn, you may have a bonus action, ie cleric 1/fighter 2 with healing word prepared could attack or cast a cantrip, then cast healing word, then action surge to attack or cast a cantrip.
I´m still working myself through 5e rules after more than a decade of absence and I´m still not getting the bonus action in general.
Does every player have a bonus action every turn regardless of the situation? Or do I as a DM, grant them bonus actions for specific events? Like rolling a critical hit or something?
Everyone has an action, a bonus action and a reaction per round. Whether they have something to use the bonus action or the reaction on is dependent on the build. Common options are two weapon fighting and spells for bonus actions, though class features often have options. AoOs, spells, and some class features use reactions.
If something says that the character must cast a spell or make an attack to use the bonus action, then that must be done in order to use the bonus action (the timing might be variable and is often given clarification in sage advice). When casting a spell with a bonus action (such as healing word), a character can still attack with a weapon or cast a cantrip, but can't cast another level 1 or higher spell. For bonus action spells, compare the casting time for healing word (yes) versus cure wounds (no).
Thanks! So I did get it right at the beginning. I started my campaign like this and found out that this is quite powerful depending on the classes. So I thought I understood that wrong and changed it to situation based bonus actions. That resulted in players forgetting about it or not feeling meaningful enough. Thanks for clarifying!
Bonus Actions are special actions. Each character can take one bonus action each turn. What they can use that bonus action for depends on the situation, class abilities, spell descriptions, etc.
The general rule is that you may take one Action, one Bonus Action, and one Reaction each turn. The order they are taken in and what they are depends on the specifics of character and situation.
Bonus Actions are special actions. Each character can take one bonus action each turn. What they can use that bonus action for depends on the situation, class abilities, spell descriptions, etc.
The general rule is that you may take one Action, one Bonus Action, and one Reaction each turn. The order they are taken in and what they are depends on the specifics of character and situation.
It also needs to be explicitly stated that sometimes you don't have any Bonus Actions.
For example, my Forge Cleric casts bless. She doesn't have anything that gives her Bonus Actions except spells, and since she cast a level 1 spell as an Action she can't cast a Bonus Action spell. So... no Bonus Action this round.
Why dont these links work? I have the players handbook. Shouldn't that include basic rules and stuff?
Possibly because they were put before the menu revamp and things got moved around. You can find the link to Basic Rules in the Game Rules menu at the top of page, along with links to other sources like Player's Handbook.
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Here's a scenario I believe I already know the ruling for, but wanted to see what the rest of the forum would have to say about it.
Say I had a ranger who somehow found themselves in the middle of an open field with only dagger on them, a club-sized branch at their feet, and a murderous horde charging in their direction.
They decide to chuck their dagger at the horde, using it as the material component to cast conjure barrage.
This ranger also has the Magic Initiate feat. They've chosen one 1st-level druid spell and two druid cantrips, including magic stoneand shillelagh.
Could the ranger in this scenario use their bonus action to cast magic stoneor shillelagh on the same turn they cast conjure barrage?
Edited to include the club-sized branch to use shillelagh on as another example of a cantrip with a bonus action.
Shillelagh wouldn't be possible under any circumstances with what you said the ranger had since they'd need a club or quarterstaff. I'm leaning towards no for magic stone since you had already cast a leveled spell and typically you can't cast a leveled spell with a bonus action spell in the same turn (the bonus action spell could be leveled, but not the other spell).
Shillelagh wouldn't be possible under any circumstances with what you said the ranger had since they'd need a club or quarterstaff. I'm leaning towards no for magic stone since you had already cast a leveled spell and typically you can't cast a leveled spell with a bonus action spell in the same turn (the bonus action spell could be leveled, but not the other spell).
D'OH! Forget to include in my updated example that there was a club-sized branch at the ranger's feet, hence why I threw in the shillelagh spell.
Bonus Actions are special actions. Each character can take one bonus action each turn. What they can use that bonus action for depends on the situation, class abilities, spell descriptions, etc.
The general rule is that you may take one Action, one Bonus Action, and one Reaction each turn. The order they are taken in and what they are depends on the specifics of character and situation.
It also needs to be explicitly stated that sometimes you don't have any Bonus Actions.
For example, my Forge Cleric casts bless. She doesn't have anything that gives her Bonus Actions except spells, and since she cast a level 1 spell as an Action she can't cast a Bonus Action spell. So... no Bonus Action this round.
I'm still confused. Jhffan says that every player gets an action, a bonus action, and a reaction each turn...but you are saying that's not the case? I'm just trying to figure out how you ever get to cast a "bonus action" spell as a cleric if you don't get a bonus action each turn by default. How would you go about getting the bonus action then?
Bonus Actions are special actions. Each character can take one bonus action each turn. What they can use that bonus action for depends on the situation, class abilities, spell descriptions, etc.
The general rule is that you may take one Action, one Bonus Action, and one Reaction each turn. The order they are taken in and what they are depends on the specifics of character and situation.
It also needs to be explicitly stated that sometimes you don't have any Bonus Actions.
For example, my Forge Cleric casts bless. She doesn't have anything that gives her Bonus Actions except spells, and since she cast a level 1 spell as an Action she can't cast a Bonus Action spell. So... no Bonus Action this round.
I'm still confused. Jhffan says that every player gets an action, a bonus action, and a reaction each turn...but you are saying that's not the case? I'm just trying to figure out how you ever get to cast a "bonus action" spell as a cleric if you don't get a bonus action each turn by default. How would you go about getting the bonus action then?
I think I may have answered my own question. You do always get a Bonus Action each turn, but you aren't allowed to cast more than one spell per turn, so by casting Bless you couldn't then cast another spell with a Bonus Action casting time, correct?
I'm still confused. Jhffan says that every player gets an action, a bonus action, and a reaction each turn...but you are saying that's not the case? I'm just trying to figure out how you ever get to cast a "bonus action" spell as a cleric if you don't get a bonus action each turn by default. How would you go about getting the bonus action then?
I think I may have answered my own question. You do always get a Bonus Action each turn, but you aren't allowed to cast more than one spell per turn, so by casting Bless you couldn't then cast another spell with a Bonus Action casting time, correct?
Everyone can use an action, bonus action, and a reaction each round. However, not everyone will have access to abilities that let them use them all, particularly if certain circumstances are or aren't met.
Casting spells has its own rules, particularly when using bonus action spells. If you cast a spell using a bonus action, you can't cast other spells that turn other than cantrips. Thus, by casting bless, you've already cast a leveled spell with your action. Since you can't cast a leveled spell and second spell that uses a bonus action in the same turn, you would be unable to use your bonus action unless you had another ability that let you use your bonus action without a prerequisite from your action. (You probably couldn't bonus action attack since most of those require an action attack coupled with it, unless you had something like action surge that gave you another action. You could do something like rage, though you wouldn't be able to concentrate on the bless spell you just cast.)
However, you could do something like cast healing word and toll the dead in the same turn.
Then on subsequent turns, you can use your action for whatever (likely to attack or cast another spell), and then a bonus action to make the Spiritual Weapon move up to 20 feet and attack.
The Spiritual Weapon attack + Spiritual Weapon attack is stronger than a basic attack/cantrip + Spiritual Weapon attack if you allow a bonus action to be used in place of a standard action.
This is even more noticeable with a spell like Bigby's Grasping Hand (concentration up to 1 minute) which allows you to use a bonus action to move up to 60 feet AND grapple an enemy or crush a grappled enemy (2d6+1d6 for every spell slot after 5th). So, the most OP way of using this spell in an open field is 60 feet of movement STRAIGHT UP until the creature is 210 feet in the air (the maximum amount of falling damage is 20d6). Normally it would take 7 rounds of movement to get the enemy that high. So assuming you use the other 3 rounds to do Clenched fist (to make an attack) and, as to not increase the total spell cost, we use a cantrip for our action every round (let's say Fire Bolt which is 2d10 at 9th level - when you first get Bigby's Hand): You're looking at 99 (18d10) firebolt damage, 54 (12d8) Clench damage, 49 (14d6) Grasp damage, and 70 (20d6) falling damage. So you're looking at a potential 263 damage if all fire bolts and Clenching Fists hit. If we assume only 75% of the fire bolts hit and 2 of the Clenching Fists hit, you're looking at ~221 damage instead (that's still being generous with 75%).
Now let's look at the same situation but with double bonus actions. It'll only take 4 rounds to get the enemy at max distance (0.5 round to start the grapple and 3.5 rounds of movement/grasping). That means you can do 6 rounds of double clenching or 12 clenches so 216 (48d8) Clench Damage, same 49 grasp and 70 falling, for 335 potential damage (if all Clenches hit); 281 with the same 75% hit chance. That's ~60 damage over 10 rounds (so 6 DPR increase).
It gets even worse when you are thinking of it in regards to a non-plain type environment, like say near a cliff or castle wall.
Rd 1: Cast spell + Grab an enemy > Move 30 feet to edge + Grasp + Drop
Rd 2: Move up to 60 feet and grapple the next enemy > Move 30 feet to edge + Grasp + Drop
Rd 3: Move up to 60 feet and grapple the next enemy > Move 30 feet to edge + Grasp + Drop
Rd 4: Move up to 60 feet and grapple the next enemy > Move 30 feet to edge + Grasp + Drop
Rd 5: Move up to 60 feet and grapple the next enemy > Move 30 feet to edge + Grasp + Drop
Rd 6-10: Give each of your friends a high five AND to the side (assuming they haven't fallen asleep in the time it took you to solo 5 enemies).
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“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
The way I read the Bigby's Hand spell is you would not be able to lift something up in the air after grasping it. If you read the text for forceful hand, you can only push them 5 feet plus 5 times your spell casting modifier away from you. The grasping just says crush for 2d6+spell mod damage. So if you used your action as a bonus action to crush 2 times in a round. You would do 2d6+spell mod + 2d6+spell mod in 1 round. This will average 22 damage assuming character has an +4 spell mod. By contrast if you crushed for 2d6+spell mod and cast Fire Bolt cantrip, 2d10, as an action. You would average 23 damage. So technically using your action to cast the cantrip is more damage then using your action as a bonus action to crush 2 times. So even if you allowed the caster to also move the enemy straight up. It would still be better to cast the cantrip + crush then double crush. Also, the max range on the spell is 120 feet, so it would only take 2 rounds to reach max height.
New rules link to the section about using a bonus action in combat:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/combat#TheOrderofCombat
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Why would spiritual weapon be a problem? You still have to use a bonus action to attack with it. So casting two spiritual weapons still only allows one extra attack since you only have one bonus action unless you also change the spell text to allow the subsequent use of the spell with either an action or bonus action.
What would the ruling be if you were to use Action Surge? Does the ability to have another action give you another bonus action as well?
No. You only ever get one bonus action and must choose which one. The only way that would change is for it to explicitly say you get two bonus actions (specific beats general). Action surge only specifically talks about adding an additional action. The mention of a possible bonus action is referencing that on any given turn, you may have a bonus action, ie cleric 1/fighter 2 with healing word prepared could attack or cast a cantrip, then cast healing word, then action surge to attack or cast a cantrip.
Hi and sorry for digging out this thread.
I´m still working myself through 5e rules after more than a decade of absence and I´m still not getting the bonus action in general.
Does every player have a bonus action every turn regardless of the situation? Or do I as a DM, grant them bonus actions for specific events? Like rolling a critical hit or something?
Thanks for helping me out!
Everyone has an action, a bonus action and a reaction per round. Whether they have something to use the bonus action or the reaction on is dependent on the build. Common options are two weapon fighting and spells for bonus actions, though class features often have options. AoOs, spells, and some class features use reactions.
If something says that the character must cast a spell or make an attack to use the bonus action, then that must be done in order to use the bonus action (the timing might be variable and is often given clarification in sage advice). When casting a spell with a bonus action (such as healing word), a character can still attack with a weapon or cast a cantrip, but can't cast another level 1 or higher spell. For bonus action spells, compare the casting time for healing word (yes) versus cure wounds (no).
Thanks! So I did get it right at the beginning. I started my campaign like this and found out that this is quite powerful depending on the classes. So I thought I understood that wrong and changed it to situation based bonus actions. That resulted in players forgetting about it or not feeling meaningful enough. Thanks for clarifying!
Bonus Actions are special actions. Each character can take one bonus action each turn. What they can use that bonus action for depends on the situation, class abilities, spell descriptions, etc.
The general rule is that you may take one Action, one Bonus Action, and one Reaction each turn. The order they are taken in and what they are depends on the specifics of character and situation.
It also needs to be explicitly stated that sometimes you don't have any Bonus Actions.
For example, my Forge Cleric casts bless. She doesn't have anything that gives her Bonus Actions except spells, and since she cast a level 1 spell as an Action she can't cast a Bonus Action spell. So... no Bonus Action this round.
Why dont these links work? I have the players handbook. Shouldn't that include basic rules and stuff?
Possibly because they were put before the menu revamp and things got moved around. You can find the link to Basic Rules in the Game Rules menu at the top of page, along with links to other sources like Player's Handbook.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Here's a scenario I believe I already know the ruling for, but wanted to see what the rest of the forum would have to say about it.
Say I had a ranger who somehow found themselves in the middle of an open field with only dagger on them, a club-sized branch at their feet, and a murderous horde charging in their direction.
They decide to chuck their dagger at the horde, using it as the material component to cast conjure barrage.
This ranger also has the Magic Initiate feat. They've chosen one 1st-level druid spell and two druid cantrips, including magic stone and shillelagh.
Could the ranger in this scenario use their bonus action to cast magic stone or shillelagh on the same turn they cast conjure barrage?
Edited to include the club-sized branch to use shillelagh on as another example of a cantrip with a bonus action.
Shillelagh wouldn't be possible under any circumstances with what you said the ranger had since they'd need a club or quarterstaff. I'm leaning towards no for magic stone since you had already cast a leveled spell and typically you can't cast a leveled spell with a bonus action spell in the same turn (the bonus action spell could be leveled, but not the other spell).
D'OH! Forget to include in my updated example that there was a club-sized branch at the ranger's feet, hence why I threw in the shillelagh spell.
I'm still confused. Jhffan says that every player gets an action, a bonus action, and a reaction each turn...but you are saying that's not the case? I'm just trying to figure out how you ever get to cast a "bonus action" spell as a cleric if you don't get a bonus action each turn by default. How would you go about getting the bonus action then?
I think I may have answered my own question. You do always get a Bonus Action each turn, but you aren't allowed to cast more than one spell per turn, so by casting Bless you couldn't then cast another spell with a Bonus Action casting time, correct?
Everyone can use an action, bonus action, and a reaction each round. However, not everyone will have access to abilities that let them use them all, particularly if certain circumstances are or aren't met.
Casting spells has its own rules, particularly when using bonus action spells. If you cast a spell using a bonus action, you can't cast other spells that turn other than cantrips. Thus, by casting bless, you've already cast a leveled spell with your action. Since you can't cast a leveled spell and second spell that uses a bonus action in the same turn, you would be unable to use your bonus action unless you had another ability that let you use your bonus action without a prerequisite from your action. (You probably couldn't bonus action attack since most of those require an action attack coupled with it, unless you had something like action surge that gave you another action. You could do something like rage, though you wouldn't be able to concentrate on the bless spell you just cast.)
However, you could do something like cast healing word and toll the dead in the same turn.