The wording of wall of water seems unclear to me in that I'm not sure if the cold effect that freezes a section of the wall has to affect the section of the wall or simply go through it. For instance, it's pretty clear that a Cone of Cold cast through the wall would freeze any part of it that the spell goes through, but the damage of a Ray of Frost doesn't occur until it hits the target, so does going through a wall of water to get to the target, freeze that portion of it which it went through?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
"Spells that deal cold damage that pass through the wall..."
There's nothing in the spell description that states you must deal cold damage, simply that a cold damage is the trigger for the effect. You can make your igloo using Ray of Frost, but only in 5ft increments.
"Spells that deal cold damage that pass through the wall..."
There's nothing in the spell description that states you must deal cold damage, simply that a cold damage is the trigger for the effect. You can make your igloo using Ray of Frost, but only in 5ft increments.
Well, you must target a creature with Ray of Frost, so you can't just "make your igloo" by targeting the wall, or the space behind it, in order to freeze it, but yeah, if you target a creature on the other side, the 5' section of the wall would be frozen, whether you hit the creature or not.
"Spells that deal cold damage that pass through the wall..."
There's nothing in the spell description that states you must deal cold damage, simply that a cold damage is the trigger for the effect. You can make your igloo using Ray of Frost, but only in 5ft increments.
Well, you must target a creature with Ray of Frost, so you can't just "make your igloo" by targeting the wall, or the space behind it, in order to freeze it, but yeah, if you target a creature on the other side, the 5' section of the wall would be frozen, whether you hit the creature or not.
Fair point, you do need to have a valid target for the spell or else it won't work.
Yeah, that's one of the more annoying things with most cantrips (although I understand and agree that it's needed for balance), how they mostly target creatures and can't be used "creatively". There are exceptions, of course (Fire Bolt can target objects, Minor Illusion, Prestidigitation, Druidcraft, and Thaumaturgy are designed for creative use, etc.), but most attack cantrips are creature-only.
...(although I understand and agree that it's needed for balance)...
Is it, though?
I've often wondered about that but never given it anymore than a passing thought. I wonder what would be different if some of the targeted attack/damage spells didn't have the creature requirement.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
It's probably less for balance reasons and more to avoid tricky situations at the game table. It's easy to rule on whether bludgeoning, piercing or slashing damage would be effective against objects; it's trickier to know off the top of your head what a sudden, localized, short-lived drop in temperature might do to different materials. Or an unspecified acid. And it gets really tricky with types like radiant and force that aren't rooted in real-world physics. Since cantrips can be cast at will, the temptation to apply them to every situation is strong.
Jeremy Crawford's mentioned in Dragon+ that some of his heuristics for game features include "is this going to be super annoying if someone chooses to use it all the time" and "is this going to slow down the game."
"Spells that deal cold damage that pass through the wall..."
There's nothing in the spell description that states you must deal cold damage, simply that a cold damage is the trigger for the effect. You can make your igloo using Ray of Frost, but only in 5ft increments.
Well, you must target a creature with Ray of Frost, so you can't just "make your igloo" by targeting the wall, or the space behind it, in order to freeze it, but yeah, if you target a creature on the other side, the 5' section of the wall would be frozen, whether you hit the creature or not.
You use your action to fire a beam of ice at a creature you can see. Make a ranged spell attack. On hit, the target takes 1d8 cold damage, and its speed is reduced by 10 feet until the start of your next turn.
Range
60 feet
Tonio. let's say you're my DM. Why can I not, SEE a creature, through the wall of water, that is outside my spell's range of 60 feet. (so the spell will miss no matter what). Just to freeze the portion of wall of water?
RAW, the reason is because you can't fire the spell off at the creature you can see that's over 60' away. The spell doesn't go off, since the creature is not a valid target. Whether I, as a DM, would rule otherwise is a different matter altogether. =)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
The wording of wall of water seems unclear to me in that I'm not sure if the cold effect that freezes a section of the wall has to affect the section of the wall or simply go through it. For instance, it's pretty clear that a Cone of Cold cast through the wall would freeze any part of it that the spell goes through, but the damage of a Ray of Frost doesn't occur until it hits the target, so does going through a wall of water to get to the target, freeze that portion of it which it went through?
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.
Yep
Seems pretty straightforward to me.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
"Spells that deal cold damage that pass through the wall..."
There's nothing in the spell description that states you must deal cold damage, simply that a cold damage is the trigger for the effect. You can make your igloo using Ray of Frost, but only in 5ft increments.
Well, you must target a creature with Ray of Frost, so you can't just "make your igloo" by targeting the wall, or the space behind it, in order to freeze it, but yeah, if you target a creature on the other side, the 5' section of the wall would be frozen, whether you hit the creature or not.
Fair point, you do need to have a valid target for the spell or else it won't work.
Yeah, that's one of the more annoying things with most cantrips (although I understand and agree that it's needed for balance), how they mostly target creatures and can't be used "creatively". There are exceptions, of course (Fire Bolt can target objects, Minor Illusion, Prestidigitation, Druidcraft, and Thaumaturgy are designed for creative use, etc.), but most attack cantrips are creature-only.
Is it, though?
I've often wondered about that but never given it anymore than a passing thought. I wonder what would be different if some of the targeted attack/damage spells didn't have the creature requirement.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.
It's probably less for balance reasons and more to avoid tricky situations at the game table. It's easy to rule on whether bludgeoning, piercing or slashing damage would be effective against objects; it's trickier to know off the top of your head what a sudden, localized, short-lived drop in temperature might do to different materials. Or an unspecified acid. And it gets really tricky with types like radiant and force that aren't rooted in real-world physics. Since cantrips can be cast at will, the temptation to apply them to every situation is strong.
Jeremy Crawford's mentioned in Dragon+ that some of his heuristics for game features include "is this going to be super annoying if someone chooses to use it all the time" and "is this going to slow down the game."
The Forum Infestation (TM)
You use your action to fire a beam of ice at a creature you can see. Make a ranged spell attack. On hit, the target takes 1d8 cold damage, and its speed is reduced by 10 feet until the start of your next turn.
Range
Blank
RAW, the reason is because you can't fire the spell off at the creature you can see that's over 60' away. The spell doesn't go off, since the creature is not a valid target. Whether I, as a DM, would rule otherwise is a different matter altogether. =)