But we also know that a "quarterstaff" is not an "arcane focus (quarterstaff)," because they have different costs, and there's nothing in the book that suggests otherwise.
I mean, I would certainly rule at my table that if a wizard or a druid took the cash in hand at level 1 and wanted a staff as a focus, it would cost 5 gp, but the starting equipment table lists no such cost. It just says quarterstaff, and the tooltip on DDB links you to the exact same quarterstaff that costs 2 sp
It doesn't say quarterstaff, though. It says "arcane focus (quarterstaff)," and if we look at the arcane focus table and look for quarterstaff, we see that it's the same as a staff and costs 5gp. So I'd call that tooltip a data entry error. The actual rulebook says 5gp.
Then let's set aside DDB
I have a physical copy of the PHB. I find a quartertstaff in a dungeon. I look at the Arcane Focus/Druidic Focus table, depending on my class, and it says my new quarterstaff works as a focus. Right?
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I have a physical copy of the PHB. I find a quartertstaff in a dungeon. I look at the Arcane Focus/Druidic Focus table, depending on my class, and it says my new quarterstaff works as a focus. Right?
No. It would need to be a Staff (for wizard/artilerist) or Wooden Staff (for Druid/Ranger). Or, like, a Staff of Power or other magic staff.
Why is an "arcane focus (quarterstaff)" not describing giving you a quarterstaff that is an arcane focus
It is. But the fact that all Arcane Focus (Staff) are (can be used as) quarterstaffs doesn't necessarily mean that all quarterstaffs can be used as an arcane focus. And that doesn't pose any logical issues (same principle as rectangles and squares as was referenced earlier).
The description for foci says that it "is bejeweled or carved to channel arcane magic" and that needn't be true for any old quarterstaff.
Is or is not a "crystal" different from an "arcane focus (crystal)" in the same way that you describe for a "quarterstaff" being different from an "arcane focus (quarterstaff)"?
It is. This isn't a big issue atm as there is no other item in the equipment list that is named just "crystal". But an Arcane Focus (Crystal) is a specific thing with specific properties and any other thing that someone might call a "crystal" or any other items that have "crystal" in their name doesn't automatically get to be used as a foci.
I have a physical copy of the PHB. I find a quartertstaff in a dungeon. I look at the Arcane Focus/Druidic Focus table, depending on my class, and it says my new quarterstaff works as a focus. Right?
No. The table for Arcane Focus says , "Staff (also a Quarterstaff)" but it doesn't say "Quarterstaff (also a Staff (or also a Arcane Focus))" nor does the listing in the weapon table say that a Quarterstaff can double as a foci. Just because one can be used as the other doesn't mean that the opposite has to be true.
But we also know that a "quarterstaff" is not an "arcane focus (quarterstaff)," because they have different costs, and there's nothing in the book that suggests otherwise.
I mean, I would certainly rule at my table that if a wizard or a druid took the cash in hand at level 1 and wanted a staff as a focus, it would cost 5 gp, but the starting equipment table lists no such cost. It just says quarterstaff, and the tooltip on DDB links you to the exact same quarterstaff that costs 2 sp
It doesn't say quarterstaff, though. It says "arcane focus (quarterstaff)," and if we look at the arcane focus table and look for quarterstaff, we see that it's the same as a staff and costs 5gp. So I'd call that tooltip a data entry error. The actual rulebook says 5gp.
Then let's set aside DDB
I have a physical copy of the PHB. I find a quartertstaff in a dungeon. I look at the Arcane Focus/Druidic Focus table, depending on my class, and it says my new quarterstaff works as a focus. Right?
That depends on your DM. The book, again, is very clear that "quarterstaff" and "arcane focus (quarterstaff)" are different items, so you'll have to ask the DM to tell you which you've found. Like, this is never going to actually matter, I'm sure any DM will say "sure, you can use it as a focus, I was not thinking that hard when I put the staff there." But Rules & Game Mechanics, etc. etc.
Is or is not a "crystal" different from an "arcane focus (crystal)" in the same way that you describe for a "quarterstaff" being different from an "arcane focus (quarterstaff)"?
It is. This isn't a big issue atm as there is no other item in the equipment list that is named just "crystal". But an Arcane Focus (Crystal) is a specific thing with specific properties and any other thing that someone might call a "crystal" or any other items that have "crystal" in their name doesn't automatically get to be used as a foci.
Well then if there really is a difference that the authors want to distinguish then they shouldn't confuse it by referring to one as the other and vice versa.
The point is, if they are really giving you a crystal off of that table when they say "Arcane Focus (Crystal)" then they really do mean they're giving you a quarterstaff when they say they're giving you an "Arcane Focus (Quarterstaff)."
I have a physical copy of the PHB. I find a quartertstaff in a dungeon. I look at the Arcane Focus/Druidic Focus table, depending on my class, and it says my new quarterstaff works as a focus. Right?
No. It would need to be a Staff (for wizard/artilerist) or Wooden Staff (for Druid/Ranger). Or, like, a Staff of Power or other magic staff.
Why? Quarterstaff is listed on the Focus charts... isn't it?
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I have a physical copy of the PHB. I find a quartertstaff in a dungeon. I look at the Arcane Focus/Druidic Focus table, depending on my class, and it says my new quarterstaff works as a focus. Right?
No. It would need to be a Staff (for wizard/artilerist) or Wooden Staff (for Druid/Ranger). Or, like, a Staff of Power or other magic staff.
Why? Quarterstaff is listed on the Focus charts... isn't it?
It does not have a row on the Focus charts. The rows for Staff and Wooden Staff are trying to tell you, in very little space and verbiage, that the Staff or Wooden Staff can be used like a Quarterstaff in combat. (The 2014 DMG said the same thing for staves.)
Is or is not a "crystal" different from an "arcane focus (crystal)" in the same way that you describe for a "quarterstaff" being different from an "arcane focus (quarterstaff)"?
It is. This isn't a big issue atm as there is no other item in the equipment list that is named just "crystal". But an Arcane Focus (Crystal) is a specific thing with specific properties and any other thing that someone might call a "crystal" or any other items that have "crystal" in their name doesn't automatically get to be used as a foci.
Well then if there really is a difference that the authors want to distinguish then they shouldn't confuse it by referring to one as the other and vice versa.
The point is, if they are really giving you a crystal off of that table when they say "Arcane Focus (Crystal)" then they really do mean they're giving you a quarterstaff when they say they're giving you an "Arcane Focus (Quarterstaff)."
You’re performing a bit of rhetorical sleight of hand here. You’re happy to call the crystal “a crystal off of that table,” but you omit that from the staff when that’s the most important part as far as this discussion is concerned. When they say they’re giving you an “arcane focus (quarterstaff),” they’re giving you a quarterstaff off of that table, whichhas a different cost and different description than the quarterstaff off of the weapons table.
I have a physical copy of the PHB. I find a quartertstaff in a dungeon. I look at the Arcane Focus/Druidic Focus table, depending on my class, and it says my new quarterstaff works as a focus. Right?
No. The table for Arcane Focus says , "Staff (also a Quarterstaff)" but it doesn't say "Quarterstaff (also a Staff (or also a Arcane Focus))" nor does the listing in the weapon table say that a Quarterstaff can double as a foci. Just because one can be used as the other doesn't mean that the opposite has to be true.
The Starting Equipment chart also says "Arcane Focus (Quarterstaff)" and not "Arcane Focus (Staff)"
While they might have intended Staff to be a sub-category of Quarterstaff, what they've actually done is make them both sub-categories of Arcane Focus
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
You’re performing a bit of rhetorical sleight of hand here. You’re happy to call the crystal “a crystal off of that table,” but you omit that from the staff when that’s the most important part as far as this discussion is concerned. When they say they’re giving you an “arcane focus (quarterstaff),” they’re giving you a quarterstaff off of that table, whichhas a different cost and different description than the quarterstaff off of the weapons table.
That is the crux of the issue. Staff is on the table but quarterstaff is there only in that parenthetical. The table only lists a price for one of those two. Nowhere is the price for a quarterstaff listed as 5gp.
I have a physical copy of the PHB. I find a quartertstaff in a dungeon. I look at the Arcane Focus/Druidic Focus table, depending on my class, and it says my new quarterstaff works as a focus. Right?
No. It would need to be a Staff (for wizard/artilerist) or Wooden Staff (for Druid/Ranger). Or, like, a Staff of Power or other magic staff.
Why? Quarterstaff is listed on the Focus charts... isn't it?
It does not have a row on the Focus charts. The rows for Staff and Wooden Staff are trying to tell you, in very little space and verbiage, that the Staff or Wooden Staff can be used like a Quarterstaff in combat. (The 2014 DMG said the same thing for staves.)
Then what is an Arcane Focus (Quarterstaff)? If they've already covered elsewhere that Staffs and Wooden Staffs can be used as quarterstaffs, why not just say Arcane Focus (Staff)?
Again -- I agree that a basic-ass 2 sp Quarterstaff shouldn't be an Arcane Focus. But they have made it one in the PHB
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Then what is an Arcane Focus (Quarterstaff)? If they've already covered elsewhere that Staffs and Wooden Staffs can be used as quarterstaffs, why not just say Arcane Focus (Staff)?
It's probably an error. (But I thought this train of conversation was setting aside dndbeyond...)
Again -- I agree that a basic-ass 2 sp Quarterstaff shouldn't be an Arcane Focus. But they have made it one in the PHB
They have not actually added an entry for Quarterstaff as a focus. (I'll note the dndbeyond entry just links to the regular quarterstaff entry which says nothing about being a Focus.)
(Actually, can someone confirm if it says the same thing in the printed PHB, under the Wizard equipment list?)
It probably *isn't* an error. In the 2014 ruleset there were very unclear rules around the fact that a staff could be used as a quarterstaff. Magic item staves definitely could be used as quarterstaffs but it was questionable whether the same was true for mundane items. This was likely an attempt to clarify that.
In fact, in 2014 a wizard started with the option to take a quarterstaff as a weapon and any arcane focus including a staff.
You’re performing a bit of rhetorical sleight of hand here. You’re happy to call the crystal “a crystal off of that table,” but you omit that from the staff when that’s the most important part as far as this discussion is concerned. When they say they’re giving you an “arcane focus (quarterstaff),” they’re giving you a quarterstaff off of that table, whichhas a different cost and different description than the quarterstaff off of the weapons table.
That is the crux of the issue. Staff is on the table but quarterstaff is there only in that parenthetical. The table only lists a price for one of those two. Nowhere is the price for a quarterstaff listed as 5gp.
This may indeed be the crux of the issue, and I’m happy we’ve discovered it, because you’re definitely not going to convince me that the row containing quarterstaff doesn’t actually have the information for the quarterstaff it contains, and I’m fine with not convincing you it does. We can shake hands and part as friends.
I am not trying to gaslight you, and I think it is rhetorically poor of you to imply that I am. I think you are wrong that the row containing a note about a quarterstaff gives you any idea what the price of a quarterstaff is, since the price is blatantly obviously for the item not in parentheses.
And speaking of rhetoric, the price of the item is a red herring, since the book clearly implies that you can select quarterstaff and that quarterstaff can function as your focus and nothing indicates that it is any different than any other quarterstaff the game has to offer. It is only your assumption that price has something to do with it since that certainly isn't written down in the book anywhere.
Just like there is one crystal in that table and it happens to be the only crystal in the equipment section, there is an entry in the equipment section for quarterstaff, and it is referred to in that table. It is not a separate item that happens to have the same name. When they give you a quarterstaff, they are giving you a quarterstaff. It happens to show up in a parenthetical in that table, sure, so it is the one in that table. But the implication that the one on the table is different from the one in the weapons list needs some proof.
Anyway, I’m happy to part as friends even if we disagree.
Does the inverse apply as well? Can a quarter staff be used as an arcane focus or does it need to be modified for the magic?
No. A staff (or wooden staff despite DDB’s nonsensical insistence to the contrary) can be used to hit people, and when it is counts as the equivalent of a quarterstaff. However a quarterstaff cannot be used to cast spells, and so does not counts as the equivalent of a staff or (wooden staff). Just like all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares:
It is supposed to be a restriction so if you lose it it is hard to replace as a spell component pouch. It is not supposed to be I found a stick in the woods its a staff focus.
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Then let's set aside DDB
I have a physical copy of the PHB. I find a quartertstaff in a dungeon. I look at the Arcane Focus/Druidic Focus table, depending on my class, and it says my new quarterstaff works as a focus. Right?
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
No. It would need to be a Staff (for wizard/artilerist) or Wooden Staff (for Druid/Ranger). Or, like, a Staff of Power or other magic staff.
It is. But the fact that all Arcane Focus (Staff) are (can be used as) quarterstaffs doesn't necessarily mean that all quarterstaffs can be used as an arcane focus. And that doesn't pose any logical issues (same principle as rectangles and squares as was referenced earlier).
The description for foci says that it "is bejeweled or carved to channel arcane magic" and that needn't be true for any old quarterstaff.
It is. This isn't a big issue atm as there is no other item in the equipment list that is named just "crystal". But an Arcane Focus (Crystal) is a specific thing with specific properties and any other thing that someone might call a "crystal" or any other items that have "crystal" in their name doesn't automatically get to be used as a foci.
No. The table for Arcane Focus says , "Staff (also a Quarterstaff)" but it doesn't say "Quarterstaff (also a Staff (or also a Arcane Focus))" nor does the listing in the weapon table say that a Quarterstaff can double as a foci. Just because one can be used as the other doesn't mean that the opposite has to be true.
That depends on your DM. The book, again, is very clear that "quarterstaff" and "arcane focus (quarterstaff)" are different items, so you'll have to ask the DM to tell you which you've found. Like, this is never going to actually matter, I'm sure any DM will say "sure, you can use it as a focus, I was not thinking that hard when I put the staff there." But Rules & Game Mechanics, etc. etc.
Well then if there really is a difference that the authors want to distinguish then they shouldn't confuse it by referring to one as the other and vice versa.
The point is, if they are really giving you a crystal off of that table when they say "Arcane Focus (Crystal)" then they really do mean they're giving you a quarterstaff when they say they're giving you an "Arcane Focus (Quarterstaff)."
Why? Quarterstaff is listed on the Focus charts... isn't it?
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
It does not have a row on the Focus charts. The rows for Staff and Wooden Staff are trying to tell you, in very little space and verbiage, that the Staff or Wooden Staff can be used like a Quarterstaff in combat. (The 2014 DMG said the same thing for staves.)
You’re performing a bit of rhetorical sleight of hand here. You’re happy to call the crystal “a crystal off of that table,” but you omit that from the staff when that’s the most important part as far as this discussion is concerned. When they say they’re giving you an “arcane focus (quarterstaff),” they’re giving you a quarterstaff off of that table, which has a different cost and different description than the quarterstaff off of the weapons table.
The Starting Equipment chart also says "Arcane Focus (Quarterstaff)" and not "Arcane Focus (Staff)"
While they might have intended Staff to be a sub-category of Quarterstaff, what they've actually done is make them both sub-categories of Arcane Focus
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
That is the crux of the issue. Staff is on the table but quarterstaff is there only in that parenthetical. The table only lists a price for one of those two. Nowhere is the price for a quarterstaff listed as 5gp.
Then what is an Arcane Focus (Quarterstaff)? If they've already covered elsewhere that Staffs and Wooden Staffs can be used as quarterstaffs, why not just say Arcane Focus (Staff)?
Again -- I agree that a basic-ass 2 sp Quarterstaff shouldn't be an Arcane Focus. But they have made it one in the PHB
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
It's probably an error. (But I thought this train of conversation was setting aside dndbeyond...)
They have not actually added an entry for Quarterstaff as a focus. (I'll note the dndbeyond entry just links to the regular quarterstaff entry which says nothing about being a Focus.)
(Actually, can someone confirm if it says the same thing in the printed PHB, under the Wizard equipment list?)
It probably *isn't* an error. In the 2014 ruleset there were very unclear rules around the fact that a staff could be used as a quarterstaff. Magic item staves definitely could be used as quarterstaffs but it was questionable whether the same was true for mundane items. This was likely an attempt to clarify that.
In fact, in 2014 a wizard started with the option to take a quarterstaff as a weapon and any arcane focus including a staff.
This may indeed be the crux of the issue, and I’m happy we’ve discovered it, because you’re definitely not going to convince me that the row containing quarterstaff doesn’t actually have the information for the quarterstaff it contains, and I’m fine with not convincing you it does. We can shake hands and part as friends.
I am not trying to gaslight you, and I think it is rhetorically poor of you to imply that I am. I think you are wrong that the row containing a note about a quarterstaff gives you any idea what the price of a quarterstaff is, since the price is blatantly obviously for the item not in parentheses.
And speaking of rhetoric, the price of the item is a red herring, since the book clearly implies that you can select quarterstaff and that quarterstaff can function as your focus and nothing indicates that it is any different than any other quarterstaff the game has to offer. It is only your assumption that price has something to do with it since that certainly isn't written down in the book anywhere.
Just like there is one crystal in that table and it happens to be the only crystal in the equipment section, there is an entry in the equipment section for quarterstaff, and it is referred to in that table. It is not a separate item that happens to have the same name. When they give you a quarterstaff, they are giving you a quarterstaff. It happens to show up in a parenthetical in that table, sure, so it is the one in that table. But the implication that the one on the table is different from the one in the weapons list needs some proof.
Anyway, I’m happy to part as friends even if we disagree.
No. A staff (or wooden staff despite DDB’s nonsensical insistence to the contrary) can be used to hit people, and when it is counts as the equivalent of a quarterstaff. However a quarterstaff cannot be used to cast spells, and so does not counts as the equivalent of a staff or (wooden staff). Just like all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares:
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So just be sure to pick up a quarterstaff that was once a starting equipment item of a wizard or a druid and you can use it as a focus.
If it is magical, then yes for sure.
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It is supposed to be a restriction so if you lose it it is hard to replace as a spell component pouch. It is not supposed to be I found a stick in the woods its a staff focus.