An interesting discussion at the table this evening regarding what nourishment included. The spell states each berry having “enough nourishment to sustain a creature for one day”.
The discussion centered around whether this included water requirements for the day. I contended, as the Druid casting the spell, it was all inclusive - being brought into existence the environment or other mystical space, and being magic. The DM saw it otherwise, requiring daily water requirements additional to the nourishment gained via Goodberry.
DM decision rules, naturally.
In tonight’s case, it resulted in our party having to expend a Purify Food and Water spell each day in addition to the Goodberry spell.
Didn’t seem correct to me. Your thoughts or opinions?
The rules for food and water don't specifically use the word nourishment, but the few other places that do use nourishment seem to only refer to food (such as edible mushrooms).
And as stormknight said, by definition, nourishment refers to food.
I personally have always interpretted it to only provide food needs.
I'm playing a Druid right now and we're interpreting it as providing food, not food and water. So we carry water skins and if we need it I'll use a spell to cast Create or Destroy Water to fill them. It's not ideal because it uses my spell slots, but it does the job.
Thanks, all! Certainly appears our DM is correct. Oh well, will have to rely on the Cleric to purify the Darklake water until we come to a time where I need to Create it.
An interesting discussion at the table this evening regarding what nourishment included. The spell states each berry having “enough nourishment to sustain a creature for one day”.
The discussion centered around whether this included water requirements for the day. I contended, as the Druid casting the spell, it was all inclusive - being brought into existence the environment or other mystical space, and being magic. The DM saw it otherwise, requiring daily water requirements additional to the nourishment gained via Goodberry.
DM decision rules, naturally.
In tonight’s case, it resulted in our party having to expend a Purify Food and Water spell each day in addition to the Goodberry spell.
Didn’t seem correct to me. Your thoughts or opinions?
typically berries have "juice" in them. I can't think of a berry that doesn't have a juice in it off the top of my head. Juices prevent dehydration. Edit: But, I'd go with Jeremy Crawford's definition personally.
An interesting discussion at the table this evening regarding what nourishment included. The spell states each berry having “enough nourishment to sustain a creature for one day”.
The discussion centered around whether this included water requirements for the day. I contended, as the Druid casting the spell, it was all inclusive - being brought into existence the environment or other mystical space, and being magic. The DM saw it otherwise, requiring daily water requirements additional to the nourishment gained via Goodberry.
DM decision rules, naturally.
In tonight’s case, it resulted in our party having to expend a Purify Food and Water spell each day in addition to the Goodberry spell.
Didn’t seem correct to me. Your thoughts or opinions?
typically berries have "juice" in them. I can't think of a berry that doesn't have a juice in it off the top of my head. Juices prevent dehydration. Edit: But, I'd go with Jeremy Crawford's definition personally.
I will defer to the DM in our campaign, although I disagree with the ruling. When I DM it will be inclusive of water.
Purify Food and Water is a ritual spell. I used the Goodberry spell and that for extensive exploration and it only taxes you one lvl 1 spell slot, up until we got an magical jug. I don't really see the issue here of "having to expend" a ritual spell.
typically berries have "juice" in them. I can't think of a berry that doesn't have a juice in it off the top of my head. Juices prevent dehydration. Edit: But, I'd go with Jeremy Crawford's definition personally.
They do. And in this case, very nutritious juice. But they have considerably less than a gallon of juice, which is what it would take to keep you hydrated.
typically berries have "juice" in them. I can't think of a berry that doesn't have a juice in it off the top of my head. Juices prevent dehydration. Edit: But, I'd go with Jeremy Crawford's definition personally.
They do. And in this case, very nutritious juice. But they have considerably less than a gallon of juice, which is what it would take to keep you hydrated.
True.
“enough nourishment to sustain a creature for one day”.
You also don't need 1 gallon of juice.
Not taking in any height differences, weight differences, or racial differences... (who's to say a dwarf needs the same, or more, or less, water than a human afterall? Who's to say a dragonborn needs more than water once every other day?) ..... To stay healthy, you need to continually replenish your fluid supply. Experts recommend drinking approximately two quarts (64 ounces or about eight glasses) of water each day. Of course, if you live in an extremely hot or cold area — or if you exercise a lot — you may need to drink a gallon or more of water every day.
In a worst case scenario a gallon. Usually half that. and thats for Humans.
But. the wording of the spell... if you *allow* the juices to be enough nourishment. Then, the juices are somewhere between 64 and 128 ounces. After all, these berries, are also 2500+ calories. Did you think they were tiny like a raspberry? The spell doesn't say how big the berries are. Just a weight. But magic items can weigh less, or more, than you think they should, so for magic items, weight isn't a good indicator of size or material or substance.
Acording to the rules, all humanoids need a gallon of water a day. If they get less than half that, they get an exhaustion, less than a gallon but more than half, they make a save or get exhaustion.
And... let's get down to the Goodberry per OP.....
according to the rules all humanoids need a gallon of water a day. the Goodberries do not contain water, just juice, and therefore, the gallon of water requirement is not met.
My view is it is all mystical. So, it can represent anything: 2500 calories... Gallon of water ... whatever...enough to sustain one for a day. It’s a “good” berry!
My view is it is all mystical. So, it can represent anything: 2500 calories... Gallon of water ... whatever...enough to sustain one for a day. It’s a “good” berry!
Honestly, either way works for me.
I've had a character die, eating "tainted' goodberries, that his companion druid offered. So... yeah, goodberries. not just for sustenance.
Nice find! Provides not only more clarification to my nourishment position, but also some common magic items one might find in a magic 'dispensary', not unlike edibles and such you might find in every day dispensaries cropping up around the US these days.
Bead of Refreshment is deceptively gross though... it doesn't dissolve on your tongue and provide a day of water, instead you drop into a pint of liquid to turn it into water. I think we can all read between the lines that that liquid probably isn't wine/ale/etc... its pee, man, its a bead for drinking your pee :( (and not even enough of it to avoid exhaustion, as pointed out by DxJxC). I suppose you could argue that its useful for non-potable swamp water as well, but if you're traveling in such an environment, making a campfire and boiling water seems like a cheaper and more realistic solution.
TBH I can't see finding such a thing, considering that the Downtime activities in Xanthar's suggest that it would take a week to craft and cost at least 50 gp for a single glass of water. Houseruling Bead of Refreshment to be Bead of Nourishment but for water would make more sense.
TBH I can't see finding such a thing, considering that the Downtime activities in Xanthar's suggest that it would take a week to craft and cost at least 50 gp. Houseruling Bead of Refreshment to be Bead of Nourishment but for water would make more sense.
Creation time and material costs for consumables are half of what the table says.
Anyways, an item doesn't need to be profitable to exist. It could just be something budding artificers make to hone their craft before they're ready to tackle more complex magic items.
An interesting discussion at the table this evening regarding what nourishment included. The spell states each berry having “enough nourishment to sustain a creature for one day”.
The discussion centered around whether this included water requirements for the day. I contended, as the Druid casting the spell, it was all inclusive - being brought into existence the environment or other mystical space, and being magic. The DM saw it otherwise, requiring daily water requirements additional to the nourishment gained via Goodberry.
DM decision rules, naturally.
In tonight’s case, it resulted in our party having to expend a Purify Food and Water spell each day in addition to the Goodberry spell.
Didn’t seem correct to me. Your thoughts or opinions?
Gray Mouser
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D&D Beyond FoundersI'd say that strictly speaking your DM is probably correct on this one.
The dictionary definition of nourishment is: The food necessary for growth, health, and good condition.
Emphasis on the "food" part of that.
Jeremy Crawford, one of the game designers for D&D 5th edition, answers this question here:
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/11/13/does-goodberry-provide-water-or-just-food/
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The rules for food and water don't specifically use the word nourishment, but the few other places that do use nourishment seem to only refer to food (such as edible mushrooms).
And as stormknight said, by definition, nourishment refers to food.
I personally have always interpretted it to only provide food needs.
I'm playing a Druid right now and we're interpreting it as providing food, not food and water. So we carry water skins and if we need it I'll use a spell to cast Create or Destroy Water to fill them. It's not ideal because it uses my spell slots, but it does the job.
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Thanks, all! Certainly appears our DM is correct. Oh well, will have to rely on the Cleric to purify the Darklake water until we come to a time where I need to Create it.
Gray Mouser
As a Druid, do you not also have a Create Water spell?
typically berries have "juice" in them. I can't think of a berry that doesn't have a juice in it off the top of my head. Juices prevent dehydration. Edit: But, I'd go with Jeremy Crawford's definition personally.
Blank
I will defer to the DM in our campaign, although I disagree with the ruling. When I DM it will be inclusive of water.
Gray Mouser
Purify Food and Water is a ritual spell. I used the Goodberry spell and that for extensive exploration and it only taxes you one lvl 1 spell slot, up until we got an magical jug. I don't really see the issue here of "having to expend" a ritual spell.
They do. And in this case, very nutritious juice. But they have considerably less than a gallon of juice, which is what it would take to keep you hydrated.
True.
“enough nourishment to sustain a creature for one day”.
You also don't need 1 gallon of juice.
Not taking in any height differences, weight differences, or racial differences... (who's to say a dwarf needs the same, or more, or less, water than a human afterall? Who's to say a dragonborn needs more than water once every other day?) ..... To stay healthy, you need to continually replenish your fluid supply. Experts recommend drinking approximately two quarts (64 ounces or about eight glasses) of water each day. Of course, if you live in an extremely hot or cold area — or if you exercise a lot — you may need to drink a gallon or more of water every day.
In a worst case scenario a gallon. Usually half that. and thats for Humans.
But. the wording of the spell... if you *allow* the juices to be enough nourishment. Then, the juices are somewhere between 64 and 128 ounces. After all, these berries, are also 2500+ calories. Did you think they were tiny like a raspberry? The spell doesn't say how big the berries are. Just a weight. But magic items can weigh less, or more, than you think they should, so for magic items, weight isn't a good indicator of size or material or substance.
Blank
Acording to the rules, all humanoids need a gallon of water a day. If they get less than half that, they get an exhaustion, less than a gallon but more than half, they make a save or get exhaustion.
Fair enough. for the quantity of water needed.
And... let's get down to the Goodberry per OP.....
according to the rules all humanoids need a gallon of water a day. the Goodberries do not contain water, just juice, and therefore, the gallon of water requirement is not met.
Blank
My view is it is all mystical. So, it can represent anything: 2500 calories... Gallon of water ... whatever...enough to sustain one for a day. It’s a “good” berry!
Gray Mouser
Honestly, either way works for me.
I've had a character die, eating "tainted' goodberries, that his companion druid offered. So... yeah, goodberries. not just for sustenance.
Blank
bead of nourishment
bead of refreshment
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Nice find! Provides not only more clarification to my nourishment position, but also some common magic items one might find in a magic 'dispensary', not unlike edibles and such you might find in every day dispensaries cropping up around the US these days.
Gray Mouser
Bead of Refreshment is deceptively gross though... it doesn't dissolve on your tongue and provide a day of water, instead you drop into a pint of liquid to turn it into water. I think we can all read between the lines that that liquid probably isn't wine/ale/etc... its pee, man, its a bead for drinking your pee :( (and not even enough of it to avoid exhaustion, as pointed out by DxJxC). I suppose you could argue that its useful for non-potable swamp water as well, but if you're traveling in such an environment, making a campfire and boiling water seems like a cheaper and more realistic solution.
TBH I can't see finding such a thing, considering that the Downtime activities in Xanthar's suggest that it would take a week to craft and cost at least 50 gp for a single glass of water. Houseruling Bead of Refreshment to be Bead of Nourishment but for water would make more sense.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Creation time and material costs for consumables are half of what the table says.
Anyways, an item doesn't need to be profitable to exist. It could just be something budding artificers make to hone their craft before they're ready to tackle more complex magic items.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
I suppose 25 gp is a little more reasonable... D&D equivalent of ordering mineral water for your table at a fancy restaurant? :p
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.