Bronze and blue dragons' breath weapons deal lightning damage; krakens are immune to lightning damage. Krakens are immune to nonmagical bludgeoning, piercing and slashing damage; a dragon's claws, fangs & tail are considered nonmagical weapons. Also, krakens are immune to being frightened. An ancient bronze dragon forced to fight a kraken has two options: Repulsion Breath, which has a 25% chance of working; and Change Shape. Neither of those are available to chromatic dragons.
Besides, when one goes to such levels of CR, things depend much more on the story than the strict mechanics.
Why is a dragon fighting a kraken? Is it a background battle in an epic climax of the story of our heroes, where the massive beasts represent the heavy artillery of the opposed armies? Is it a battle that was provoked by an evil storm cleric, and the heroes need to stop before it destroys the coastline and the villages on it? Is it a 100-year awakening of a kraken that threatens a harbor-city and the dragon tries to stop it because its human lover resides there and refuses to leave?
How the battle goes varies a lot depending on things like that. In my examples, for instance, I could see the first battle being mere devastation - the kraken will win eventually, after their conflict has destroyed a good half of each army, unless the heroes tilt the scales. In the second example, the dragon knows full well he cannot harm the kraken, but needs to stop it - he can't just fly 70 ft above it and taunt it to death: again, a task for the heroes - perhaps to stop the cleric, so the kraken leaves. In the third example, there are many more options for the heroes: Evacuate the city, and the lover? Perhaps the dragon flies off, after being wounded, and the city gets destroyed; the kraken returns to its slumber (ala tarrasque). Try to fight? The dragon is likely too injured to offer much help, but will prevent the kraken from reaching the city during the battle, or even provide cover for the heroes. The heroes decide to run, or fail to get the lover out? The dragon may decide to borrow a couple of things from his hoard, like an Orb of Elemental Substitution that turns its breath to acid, or a sash that turns his fangs and claws magical. I'd still expect at least a tie, though.
I'm rambling, aren't I? My point is: mechanics kind of take a backseat for legendary conflicts that don't directly involve the party.
Besides, when one goes to such levels of CR, things depend much more on the story than the strict mechanics.
Why is a dragon fighting a kraken? Is it a background battle in an epic climax of the story of our heroes, where the massive beasts represent the heavy artillery of the opposed armies? Is it a battle that was provoked by an evil storm cleric, and the heroes need to stop before it destroys the coastline and the villages on it? Is it a 100-year awakening of a kraken that threatens a harbor-city and the dragon tries to stop it because its human lover resides there and refuses to leave?
How the battle goes varies a lot depending on things like that. In my examples, for instance, I could see the first battle being mere devastation - the kraken will win eventually, after their conflict has destroyed a good half of each army, unless the heroes tilt the scales. In the second example, the dragon knows full well he cannot harm the kraken, but needs to stop it - he can't just fly 70 ft above it and taunt it to death: again, a task for the heroes - perhaps to stop the cleric, so the kraken leaves. In the third example, there are many more options for the heroes: Evacuate the city, and the lover? Perhaps the dragon flies off, after being wounded, and the city gets destroyed; the kraken returns to its slumber (ala tarrasque). Try to fight? The dragon is likely too injured to offer much help, but will prevent the kraken from reaching the city during the battle, or even provide cover for the heroes. The heroes decide to run, or fail to get the lover out? The dragon may decide to borrow a couple of things from his hoard, like an Orb of Elemental Substitution that turns its breath to acid, or a sash that turns his fangs and claws magical. I'd still expect at least a tie, though.
I'm rambling, aren't I? My point is: mechanics kind of take a backseat for legendary conflicts that don't directly involve the party.
Good ideas and suggestions. Thanks.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Don't forget, an ancient dragon isn't stupid. It has 18 intelligence and has lived for at least 801 years. Even if the dragon could damage it, why would it risk going toe-to-toe with a creature that's just as strong? No, it'd do the same thing adventurers do - grab some gear, find some help and come up with a plan. It's common for dragons to have treasure hoards, so it probably has some magic items at its disposal. It's also pretty hard to live that long without having some connections - if nothing else, with other dragons (but odds are it's run into humanoids at some point in its life too).
Don't forget, an ancient dragon isn't stupid. It has 18 intelligence and has lived for at least 801 years. Even if the dragon could damage it, why would it risk going toe-to-toe with a creature that's just as strong? No, it'd do the same thing adventurers do - grab some gear, find some help and come up with a plan. It's common for dragons to have treasure hoards, so it probably has some magic items at its disposal. It's also pretty hard to live that long without having some connections - if nothing else, with other dragons (but odds are it's run into humanoids at some point in its life too).
More good points.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
I thought of that as well. Unfortunately for the dragon, the Kraken has Freedom of Movement, meaning it can evade any grapples with 5 feet of movement.
That and wouldn't the Kraken actually be immune to falling damage? I mean I suppose a kraken couldn't actually breath out of water and that could work.
Also since it takes 5ft of movement for the Kraken to escape that is one turn that the dragon can grapple the Kraken and do something.
That and wouldn't the Kraken actually be immune to falling damage? I mean I suppose a kraken couldn't actually breath out of water and that could work.
Also since it takes 5ft of movement for the Kraken to escape that is one turn that the dragon can grapple the Kraken and do something.
Falling isn't an attack, so the kraken's not immune to that damage.
Also note that even if the kraken didn't have Freedom of Movement, it could grapple the dragon back to prevent being moved.
It is Amphibious, so it can breathe either way, though. Beaching it won't help much. And the maximum damage of a single fall is 20d6 - not enough to kill it. If something could pick it up (despite its Freedom of Movement and its grapple check), you'd still have to chuck it in a volcano, I suppose. Or in orbit.
Moral of the story? Don't fight Krakens. Even if you're a dragon. :p
There is no way for an ancient bronze dragon (CR 22) in its true form to damage a kraken (CR 23). An ancient blue dragon (CR 23) has the same problem, only worse.
Bronze and blue dragons' breath weapons deal lightning damage; krakens are immune to lightning damage. Krakens are immune to nonmagical bludgeoning, piercing and slashing damage; a dragon's claws, fangs & tail are considered nonmagical weapons. Also, krakens are immune to being frightened. An ancient bronze dragon forced to fight a kraken has two options: Repulsion Breath, which has a 25% chance of working; and Change Shape. Neither of those are available to chromatic dragons.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Tooltips (Help/aid)
The CR value is intended for a party of characters, not other monsters.
Besides, when one goes to such levels of CR, things depend much more on the story than the strict mechanics.
Why is a dragon fighting a kraken? Is it a background battle in an epic climax of the story of our heroes, where the massive beasts represent the heavy artillery of the opposed armies? Is it a battle that was provoked by an evil storm cleric, and the heroes need to stop before it destroys the coastline and the villages on it? Is it a 100-year awakening of a kraken that threatens a harbor-city and the dragon tries to stop it because its human lover resides there and refuses to leave?
How the battle goes varies a lot depending on things like that. In my examples, for instance, I could see the first battle being mere devastation - the kraken will win eventually, after their conflict has destroyed a good half of each army, unless the heroes tilt the scales. In the second example, the dragon knows full well he cannot harm the kraken, but needs to stop it - he can't just fly 70 ft above it and taunt it to death: again, a task for the heroes - perhaps to stop the cleric, so the kraken leaves. In the third example, there are many more options for the heroes: Evacuate the city, and the lover? Perhaps the dragon flies off, after being wounded, and the city gets destroyed; the kraken returns to its slumber (ala tarrasque). Try to fight? The dragon is likely too injured to offer much help, but will prevent the kraken from reaching the city during the battle, or even provide cover for the heroes. The heroes decide to run, or fail to get the lover out? The dragon may decide to borrow a couple of things from his hoard, like an Orb of Elemental Substitution that turns its breath to acid, or a sash that turns his fangs and claws magical. I'd still expect at least a tie, though.
I'm rambling, aren't I? My point is: mechanics kind of take a backseat for legendary conflicts that don't directly involve the party.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Tooltips (Help/aid)
Don't forget, an ancient dragon isn't stupid. It has 18 intelligence and has lived for at least 801 years. Even if the dragon could damage it, why would it risk going toe-to-toe with a creature that's just as strong? No, it'd do the same thing adventurers do - grab some gear, find some help and come up with a plan. It's common for dragons to have treasure hoards, so it probably has some magic items at its disposal. It's also pretty hard to live that long without having some connections - if nothing else, with other dragons (but odds are it's run into humanoids at some point in its life too).
The Forum Infestation (TM)
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Tooltips (Help/aid)
Look buddy, sometimes Pikachu just isn't going to beat Quagsire.
These things happen, even to dragons.
Dragon pulls kraken out of water and drops him 1,000 feet to his death by some rocks along the shore.
I thought of that as well. Unfortunately for the dragon, the Kraken has Freedom of Movement, meaning it can evade any grapples with 5 feet of movement.
That and wouldn't the Kraken actually be immune to falling damage? I mean I suppose a kraken couldn't actually breath out of water and that could work.
Also since it takes 5ft of movement for the Kraken to escape that is one turn that the dragon can grapple the Kraken and do something.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
It is Amphibious, so it can breathe either way, though. Beaching it won't help much. And the maximum damage of a single fall is 20d6 - not enough to kill it. If something could pick it up (despite its Freedom of Movement and its grapple check), you'd still have to chuck it in a volcano, I suppose. Or in orbit.
Moral of the story? Don't fight Krakens. Even if you're a dragon. :p
The Kraken can't expend movement to escape when it's not the Krakens turn, so the Kraken can be grappled for at least one round.