Hi All,

Novice DM here. Looking for some clarification re: Familiars and magic.

I am running a campaign where the PCs will end up in an area where magic does not work. One of my players has a Familiar. Whilst on the outside of the building there is no effect, but once you enter, no magic functions. Abilities are restored once you exit, including spells cast before entering (e.g. invisibility).

1. If the Familiar enters the building before its Master, would it be dismissed (temporarily/permanently)?
2. If the Master enters the building first would the Familiar be dismissed while outside, or would abilities such as sight and sound not work?
3. If both inside would the Familiar still be present as its own entity but its Master loses control?

Thanks.

If it helps, this is from antimagic field:

Creatures and Objects. A creature or object summoned or created by magic temporarily winks out of existence in the sphere. Such a creature instantly reappears once the space the creature occupied is no longer within the sphere.

Thanks. Was thinking this might be the case. Appreciated.

"...once the space the creature occupied is no longer within the sphere."

Although...that would mean the Familiar would be permanently dismissed, given it would have to enter the building before winking out of existence. The space it occupied would become a permanent place since the building is not mobile.

The summoner can always dismiss it into its pocket dimension and resummon it wherever.

"The summoner can always dismiss it into its pocket dimension and resummon it wherever."

Probably over-thinking things here, but would the dismissal work if the recipient is within an anti-magic field?

Heh...can just imagine not being able to dismiss your Familiar due to it being caught up in a temporary dimension within an anti-magic field. Would make the spell useless since you can only have one Familiar summoned at a time.

As far as I'm concerned, that is probably where it went when it winked out.

I wouldn't overthink it too much.  I'd rule that the familiar winks out when either the wizard or the familiar enters the building and after the wizard leaves the building he can call the familiar from it's pocket dimension normally.

Quote from DxJxC >>

If it helps, this is from antimagic field:

Creatures and Objects. A creature or object summoned or created by magic temporarily winks out of existence in the sphere. Such a creature instantly reappears once the space the creature occupied is no longer within the sphere.

That doesn't apply to Find Familiar, which has a duration of instantaneous. The familiar's presence isn't part of an ongoing spell effect.

I think the phrasing on Antimagic field is ambigious. It could be read that only creatures or objects that are summoned temporarily are affected by the sphere, or it could be read that any creature or object summoned through magic is affected temporarily by the spell.

It's only ambiguous if you read the subsections out of context. The first two paragraphs establish what the spell does: it shuts down all magic in its area. Everything that follows elaborates on how to handle specific types of magical effects.

"An effect created by a spell that's instantaneous isn't susceptible to antimagic areas or being dispelled."

Quote from InquisitiveCoder >>

It's only ambiguous if you read the subsections out of context. The first two paragraphs establish what the spell does: it shuts down all magic in its area. Everything that follows elaborates on how to handle specific types of magical effects.

"An effect created by a spell that's instantaneous isn't susceptible to antimagic areas or being dispelled."

 I'll be damned, the more you know! Thank you :)

Quote from BadDevilGrind >>

Quote from InquisitiveCoder >>

It's only ambiguous if you read the subsections out of context. The first two paragraphs establish what the spell does: it shuts down all magic in its area. Everything that follows elaborates on how to handle specific types of magical effects.

"An effect created by a spell that's instantaneous isn't susceptible to antimagic areas or being dispelled."

 I'll be damned, the more you know! Thank you :)

 I take then that the Familiar would still be present within the building containing an anti-magic field. Would the character be able to use the abilities of the Familiar as normal?

Quote from InquisitiveCoder >>

It's only ambiguous if you read the subsections out of context. The first two paragraphs establish what the spell does: it shuts down all magic in its area. Everything that follows elaborates on how to handle specific types of magical effects.

"An effect created by a spell that's instantaneous isn't susceptible to antimagic areas or being dispelled."

I don't think that tweet necessarily applies here. An animated skeleton is different to a familiar. The familiar is hit by the phrase "A creature or object summoned or created by magic temporarily winks out of existence", because it was arguably summoned by magic (the skeleton was animated not summoned). The unfortunate ambiguity is in the word "temporarily" as it could apply to either a temporary summoning or the temporary winking out. The familiar is not summoned temporarily.

This whole argument is a little academic though, since the null-magic zones mentioned in the OP are not the Antimagic Field spell, so there is no requirement for them to work the same at all. The spell is temporary and attached to a moving person, while these null-magic buildings are permanent and stationary. The same mechanics are not appropriate. Long story short, these bespoke null-magic zones can work however you want them to as long as you are consistent. I would advise against them permanently banishing summoned creatures unless the party is very clearly warned of that - it could turn into a very expensive surprise if someone walked in there with any higher level summons. 

Quote from Sinnikal>>

I take then that the Familiar would still be present within the building containing an anti-magic field.

Yup. After the spell has been cast, the familiar continues to exist without the help of any magic.

Would the character be able to use the abilities of the Familiar as normal?

By a strict reading of the rules, yes. The spell's duration is instantaneous, so there's no magic involved after the casting is complete.

Quote from RegentCorreon>>

I don't think that tweet necessarily applies here.

He couldn't have been more clear.

An animated skeleton is different to a familiar.

For the purposes of discussing how an antimagic field affects a spell with an instantaneous duration, they're exactly the same.

A familiar is hit by the phrase "A creature or object summoned or created by magic temporarily winks out of existence", because it was arguably summoned by magic (the skeleton was animated not summoned).

Again, you're taking that sentence out of context. That sentence has a very different meaning when taken on its own and when preceded by "this spell shuts down all magic within its area." You can't selectively ignore previous statements. That's a guaranteed way to screw the rules up.

In addition to that tweet, this is addressed in detail in Sage Advice Compendium and there's even an entire Dragon Talk episode dedicated to discussing antimagic field.

Can you use dispel magic on the creations of a spell like animate dead or affect those creations with antimagic field?

Whenever you wonder whether a spell’s effects can be dispelled or suspended, you need to answer one question: is the spell’s duration instantaneous? If the answer is yes, there is nothing to dispel or suspend. Here’s why: the effects of an instantaneous spell are brought into being by magic, but the effects aren’t sustained by magic (see PH, 203). The magic flares for a split second and then vanishes.

For example, the instantaneous spell animate dead harnesses magical energy to turn a corpse or a pile of bones into an undead creature. That necromantic magic is present for an instant and is then gone. The resulting undead now exists without the magic’s help. Casting dispel magic on the creature can’t end its mockery of life, and the undead can wander into an antimagic field with no adverse effect.

Another example: cure wounds instantaneously restores hit points to a creature. Because the spell’s duration is instantaneous, the restoration can’t be later dispelled. And you don’t suddenly lose hit points if you step into an antimagic field! In contrast, a spell like conjure woodland beings has a non-instantaneous duration, which means its creations can be ended by dispel magic and they temporarily disappear within an antimagic field.

And here is the video for the podcast, linked to 13:25 which is when this topic comes up.

Again: antimagic field only affects magic. None of the bolded subsections in the spell's description apply if we're talking about something nonmagical. Not even the bit about teleportation (see 34:22)

The unfortunate ambiguity is in the word "temporarily" as it could apply to either a temporary summoning or the temporary winking out. The familiar is not summoned temporarily.

It's a temporary winking out. The creatures come back if the antimagic field moves far enough or ends.

This whole argument is a little academic though, since the null-magic zones mentioned in the OP are not the Antimagic Field spell, so there is no requirement for them to work the same at all.

Since a familiar's presence doesn't involve magic, any variation of "magic doesn't work here" is irrelevant to it. If the homebrew effect does more than turning off magic, we're not talking about just a dead magic zone anymore.

Keep in mind that the goal is to have fun. Bend the rules to make the adventure more fun.

If you don't want the familiar going in, say that it seems to walk into a wall while trying to go through a door. If you don't care, decide whether the connection between the caster and the familiar is magical for your world and allow or disallow the connection accordingly. These instances of things working a little differently can be clues to let the party know that something is different about this place. Whatever you choose for the ruling, stick with it. 

Or find an interpretation that tickles your fancy and use that interpretation. As the DM, you decide what follows RaW and what doesn't. 

Thanks all, appreciate the feedback.

I was originally going to play as permanent dismissal and have the player pay 10gp for a new summons (this player is pretty broke...), however the instant thing makes sense - you summon a creature of flesh and bone in an instant which takes it's own place in the initiative order. Once summoned, no magic causes it to continue to exist. I can live with that.

Just wanted to head off a distraction before it occurred.