I was wondering if someone could confirm that when using a ki ability that deals damage, it is (generally) not necessary to perform an attack roll? I say generally because Flurry of Blows or Fangs of the Fire Snake would require attack rolls for the unarmed strikes associated with them. However, abilities such as Water Whip, Fist of Unbroken Air, Fist of Four Thunders or really any other damage dealing ki ability that a Way of Four Elements monk could have would NOT require an attack roll to perform. I'm still very new (with a whopping 2 sessions under my belt) so I want to make sure I'm playing my character correctly.
If it says it requires an attack roll, it does. Otherwise, it doesn't. As it happens, Fist of Unbroken Air and Water Whip do not mention attack rolls, but they do say that the target can attempt a saving throw to halve the damage and avoid the bonus effects. Almost everything else duplicates a spell, so look in the spell descriptions.
Ok thank you. None of the spells associated with an elemental monk's ki abilities say anything about needing to make an attack roll. In the case of of Fist of Unbroken Air or Water Whip, how would they be classified? I'm asking because two thoughts come to mind. First, could they still be used within an antimagic field? Second, could they be used during an attack of opportunity? I might be wrong, but I feel like they would be usable as an attack of opportunity since they have no casting time associated with them. On the issue of whether they could be used within an antimagic field, I am deferring to the Sage Advice column from Feb '16. Specifically the section about a dragons breath weapon. Using the four question test posed there I am unsure how to answer since it isn't entirely clear to me how those two abilities would be classified.
Yes. That was an oversight on my part concerning attacks of opportunity.
As much as I would like those abilities to not be considered magical since it would benefit my character, I did some more research after I initially posted this question and I now suspect that they probably are. Below is my line of reasoning.
Is it a magic item? Obviously not
Is it a spell? Or does it let you create the effects of a spell that’s mentioned in its description? Not a spell.
Is it a spell attack? Again, no.
Does its description say it’s magical? This is where the hangup is for me. The descriptions for those abilities don't specifically say anything about them being magical. However, ki is described as being (in part and with emphasis added):
Monks make careful study of a magical energy that most monastic traditions call ki. This energy is an element of the magic that suffuses the multiverse—specifically, the element that flows through living bodies. Monks harness this power within themselves to create magical effects and exceed their bodies’ physical capabilities, and some of their special attacks can hinder the flow of ki in their opponents.
Now looking at the description of Antimagic Field it says (again, in part and with emphasis added):
This area is divorced from the magical energy that suffuses the multiverse. Within the sphere, spells can't be cast, summoned creatures disappear, and even magic items become mundane. Until the spell ends, the sphere moves with you, centered on you.
Spells and other magical effects, except those created by an artifact or a deity, are suppressed in the sphere and can't protrude into it.
Based on this, it would seem pretty clear to me now that ki (and by extension ki-based abilities) constitutes magic and would not be accessible within an antimagic field.
Also, to answer my own question concerning what Fist of Unbroken Air and Water Whip would be classified as I think unless anyone has a better answer the best classification would probably be magical effects.
Based on this, it would seem pretty clear to me now that ki (and by extension ki-based abilities) constitutes magic and would not be accessible within an antimagic field.
It depends on the particular feature. The text for the Ki class feature (the text that actually has the rules for ki) doesn't say it's magical for rules purposes (1, 2).
On the other hand Shadow Arts uses ki to cast spells, and Disciple of the Elements explicitly calls them "magical disciplines."
That is interesting. It looks like I was on the correct line of thinking by referring to that particular SA on dragon's breath... I just took a wrong turn at the very end. lol. So ki is not inherently magical from a rules perspective but some abilities are. For example all of the elemental disciplines for my WotFE character are magical (though not all of them are spells) and couldn't be used in an antimagic field but abilities such as Flurry of Blows, Stunning Strike, or the return missile portion of Deflect Missiles (to name a few) would be able to be used in an antimagic field? Am I understanding it correctly?
That is interesting. It looks like I was on the correct line of thinking by referring to that particular SA on dragon's breath... I just took a wrong turn at the very end. lol. So ki is not inherently magical from a rules perspective but some abilities are. For example all of the elemental disciplines for my WotFE character are magical (though not all of them are spells) and couldn't be used in an antimagic field but abilities such as Flurry of Blows, Stunning Strike, or the return missile portion of Deflect Missiles (to name a few) would be able to be used in an antimagic field? Am I understanding it correctly?
That is correct.
In an anti-magic field disciplines like Fangs of the Fire Snake, Fist of Unbroken Air, Water Whip, etc... wouldn't work while you are in it or against another creature that is in it.
While a spell like Counterspell would only affect those that cast a spell; like Fist of Four Thunders, Rush of the Gale Spirits, Sweeping Cinder Strike, etc... The rest (like Water Whip) wouldn't be effected by it.
Flurry of Blows, Deflect Missiles, Stunning Strike, Ki-Empowered Strikes, etc... wouldn't be affected by either, because these aren't considered magic or spells as far as game mechanics are concerned.
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I was wondering if someone could confirm that when using a ki ability that deals damage, it is (generally) not necessary to perform an attack roll? I say generally because Flurry of Blows or Fangs of the Fire Snake would require attack rolls for the unarmed strikes associated with them. However, abilities such as Water Whip, Fist of Unbroken Air, Fist of Four Thunders or really any other damage dealing ki ability that a Way of Four Elements monk could have would NOT require an attack roll to perform. I'm still very new (with a whopping 2 sessions under my belt) so I want to make sure I'm playing my character correctly.
If it says it requires an attack roll, it does. Otherwise, it doesn't. As it happens, Fist of Unbroken Air and Water Whip do not mention attack rolls, but they do say that the target can attempt a saving throw to halve the damage and avoid the bonus effects. Almost everything else duplicates a spell, so look in the spell descriptions.
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Ok thank you. None of the spells associated with an elemental monk's ki abilities say anything about needing to make an attack roll. In the case of of Fist of Unbroken Air or Water Whip, how would they be classified? I'm asking because two thoughts come to mind. First, could they still be used within an antimagic field? Second, could they be used during an attack of opportunity? I might be wrong, but I feel like they would be usable as an attack of opportunity since they have no casting time associated with them. On the issue of whether they could be used within an antimagic field, I am deferring to the Sage Advice column from Feb '16. Specifically the section about a dragons breath weapon. Using the four question test posed there I am unsure how to answer since it isn't entirely clear to me how those two abilities would be classified.
They can't be used as attacks of opportunity because they use your action and an attack of opportunity uses your reaction.
I can't find sufficient evidence to be able to be sure, but what I can find leads me to believe that they are considered magical.
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Yes. That was an oversight on my part concerning attacks of opportunity.
As much as I would like those abilities to not be considered magical since it would benefit my character, I did some more research after I initially posted this question and I now suspect that they probably are. Below is my line of reasoning.
Is it a magic item? Obviously not
Is it a spell? Or does it let you create the effects of a spell that’s mentioned in its description? Not a spell.
Is it a spell attack? Again, no.
Does its description say it’s magical? This is where the hangup is for me. The descriptions for those abilities don't specifically say anything about them being magical. However, ki is described as being (in part and with emphasis added):
Now looking at the description of Antimagic Field it says (again, in part and with emphasis added):
Based on this, it would seem pretty clear to me now that ki (and by extension ki-based abilities) constitutes magic and would not be accessible within an antimagic field.
Also, to answer my own question concerning what Fist of Unbroken Air and Water Whip would be classified as I think unless anyone has a better answer the best classification would probably be magical effects.
Yep, the disciplines of the 4 elements monk are magical, but they are not spell. Just as an example, Dispel magic has not effect on the disciplines.
http://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/03/08/are-the-way-of-the-four-element-monks-disciplines-spells/
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That is interesting. It looks like I was on the correct line of thinking by referring to that particular SA on dragon's breath... I just took a wrong turn at the very end. lol. So ki is not inherently magical from a rules perspective but some abilities are. For example all of the elemental disciplines for my WotFE character are magical (though not all of them are spells) and couldn't be used in an antimagic field but abilities such as Flurry of Blows, Stunning Strike, or the return missile portion of Deflect Missiles (to name a few) would be able to be used in an antimagic field? Am I understanding it correctly?
Exactly.
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In an anti-magic field disciplines like Fangs of the Fire Snake, Fist of Unbroken Air, Water Whip, etc... wouldn't work while you are in it or against another creature that is in it.
While a spell like Counterspell would only affect those that cast a spell; like Fist of Four Thunders, Rush of the Gale Spirits, Sweeping Cinder Strike, etc... The rest (like Water Whip) wouldn't be effected by it.
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“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.