You could use an ancient version of a spell (1st Ed) raise dead or resurrection which does not require the soul to be willing (it does have to be free ex. Not in a soul gem/coin). I bring this up for in a 5E novel an older character was reincarnated with all her memories intact. She used an ancient version of Haste (1st Ed) to age her self up from an infant to an adult. (Haste back then aged all recipients by one year). So in theory there are still old scrolls in lost tombs/dungeons that may do what you’re looking to do to a PC.
Since the general rule is that a soul of a creature that died can’t be returned to life if it doesn’t wish to be and that Revivify doesn't specifically mention the soul didn't depart yet and work even if unwilling, i'd say it still doesn't work if the soul doesn't wish to.
This depends a lot on whether you consider the Bringing Back the Dead section of "A World of Your Own" to be an actual rule or not, since the entire chapter is really talking about how you bring the world to life, and customise it if you want to. The way it's written implies that the moment something is dead its soul is in another plane but that seems a bit extreme, especially when we know for a fact that ghosts are real, and that their creation can be tied to improper burial, so that seems to suggest there's at least some delay before the soul is actually gone.
I consider it the normal course for a soul's travel when most creature die. Exception exist with some undeads and spells that trap soul among other thing but its otherwise what normally happen to a dead soul. And the rule don't provide any timeline when the soul depart from the Prime Material plane but i would assume its instantaneous since its not noted otherwise.
I was thinking more that it's a section under the world building chapter so it's an odd place to put a hard rule intended to impact spell descriptions; nothing else in that section comes close to resembling a mechanical rule except maybe currency exchange.
The fact that other spells explicitly require the willingness of the soul when revivify does not makes it seem more like this isn't intended to normally be a mechanical consideration, i.e- whoever was writing the spells considered that forced resurrection is possible by default mechanically, and that spells need to specify when they can't do it, otherwise revivify would surely say it as well.
Ultimately it doesn't really matter regardless; a PC is unlikely to refuse to be resurrected unless an NPC is doing it for some nefarious purpose, in which case it probably isn't within revivify's one minute time limit, meanwhile resurrection of an NPC is always up to the DM anyway because they have so many other ways out of it such as the body crumbling to dust, being cursed to prevent resurrection, the brain being damaged beyond repair or whatever.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
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I own a physical copy of the DMG rather than digital, but I'll copy the relevant section here
**Dungeon Master Guide - Chapter 1 - A world of your own - pg 24**
>***Bringing Back The Dead***
>When a creature dies, it's soul departs its body, leaves >the Material Plane, travels through the Astral Plane, >and goes to abide on the plane where the creature's >deity resides. If the creature didn't worship a deity, its >soul departs to the plane corresponding to its >alignment. Bringing someone back from the dead >means retrieving the soul from that plane and >returning it to its body.
>Enemies can take steps to make it more difficult for a >character to be returned from the dead. Keeping the >body prevents others from using *raise dead* or >*resurrection* to restore the slain character to life.
>A soul can't be returned to life if it doesn't wish to be. A >soul knows the name, alignment, and patron deity (if >any) of the character attempting to revive it and might >refuse to return on that basis. For example, if the >honorable knight Sturm Brightblade is slain and a high >priestess of Takhisis (God of evil dragons) grabs his >body, Sturm might not wish to be raised from the dead >by her. Any attempts she makes to revive him >automatically fail. If the evil cleric wants to revive >Sturm and interrogate him, she needs to find some >way to trick his soul, such as duping a good cleric into >raising him and then capturing him once he is alive >again.
Mechanic system which revivy is based on is logic and reality, and legal system we have in real life, as players most of us demand some amount of consistency. And in modern medicine we know that a patient is not immedeatly labeled as "dead" the moment his heart stops, and when you fail your death saves thrice, that is what happens, your heart stops, which means you can not wake up with your own regenerative qualities(provided that you are human or anatomically working on similar principles).
Yet, If a person experiences the "irreversible cessation of all functions of the brain," he or she is considered legally dead. So stopping of your heart does not mean you are considered dead from the perspective of law, and not suprisingly our fictional divine magic works through certain principles and laws as well, which is while you are called "dead" by players, you are not called "dead" by physicians in that single "minute". If the malfunction fatal/mortal damage causes can be stopped in time, than death can be averted, or a person who is called "dead" by some can be raised back, like in cpr. Revivify is can be considered similar to a complex form of first aid+cpr, and not to mention it is a "miracle". Even common man incapable of miracle can cure a person who is dead for a minute, we donét expect less from deities' and their instruments right?
It is not evil, as any one can simply commit suicide if they do not want to live. Besides, you call murderers evil, and label those who give you back your life as evil, you call any one infringing on your own will as evil yet you are infringing of something you can not, rejecting reality, having dreams or role playing is something you can obviously but that does not change the fact that real people are being revived after their hps drop to 0 in real life without their consent and they rarely whine about it, do you think you have right to reject reality? or do you think rejecting will change it?
You are attracted to what you do not know, think it is great. And what is worse, you label people who give you another chance as evil, and act as if your opinion is absolution. Seriously dude, i respect your idea that " people should have a say if they want to be ressurected or not" that is why we say that is how resurrection works that way, but i think you might trying to understand that revivify isn't ressurection. It simply saves your life within the last minute. If you want to die anyway no one is stopping you.
There are rules, as written, and they have meaning, an intention behind them, whether for good or evil, for profit or for charity, and there are "facts". This game is created for profit, not for charity as you already know. Do not try to twist and corrupt facts, we are not playing this game for profit.
I've always just assumed there was an unwritten mechanic that, after dying, it takes a full minute for the soul to leave the body. That would explain why Revivify is only effective for the 1st minute after death, the 1 action cast time (every other revival spell takes a full hour to cast), the comparatively low expense (3rd level spell slot & 500g diamond), and why the targets willingness to revive isn't factored in the spell description.
Since the general rule is that a soul of a creature that died can’t be returned to life if it doesn’t wish to be and that Revivify doesn't specifically mention the soul didn't depart yet and work even if unwilling, i'd say it still doesn't work if the soul doesn't wish to.
This depends a lot on whether you consider the Bringing Back the Dead section of "A World of Your Own" to be an actual rule or not, since the entire chapter is really talking about how you bring the world to life, and customise it if you want to. The way it's written implies that the moment something is dead its soul is in another plane but that seems a bit extreme, especially when we know for a fact that ghosts are real, and that their creation can be tied to improper burial, so that seems to suggest there's at least some delay before the soul is actually gone.
I consider it the normal course for a soul's travel when most creature die. Exception exist with some undeads and spells that trap soul among other thing but its otherwise what normally happen to a dead soul. And the rule don't provide any timeline when the soul depart from the Prime Material plane but i would assume its instantaneous since its not noted otherwise.
I was thinking more that it's a section under the world building chapter so it's an odd place to put a hard rule intended to impact spell descriptions; nothing else in that section comes close to resembling a mechanical rule except maybe currency exchange.
The fact that other spells explicitly require the willingness of the soul when revivify does not makes it seem more like this isn't intended to normally be a mechanical consideration, i.e- whoever was writing the spells considered that forced resurrection is possible by default mechanically, and that spells need to specify when they can't do it, otherwise revivify would surely say it as well.
Ultimately it doesn't really matter regardless; a PC is unlikely to refuse to be resurrected unless an NPC is doing it for some nefarious purpose, in which case it probably isn't within revivify's one minute time limit, meanwhile resurrection of an NPC is always up to the DM anyway because they have so many other ways out of it such as the body crumbling to dust, being cursed to prevent resurrection, the brain being damaged beyond repair or whatever.
Whether someone is willing to revive or not is purely a roleplay mechanic, so it makes sense to categorize it a a world-building rule.
Revivify isn't much use outside of combat encounters since it only works within a minute of death, but the 1 action cast time makes it the only viable way to revive someone mid-combat. Someone who died in battle would normally never refuse to revive, either to get back in the fight or to retreat and survive.
The only reason I can imagine someone unwilling to revive in this context would be if they were planning on dying in the first place. Either they were suicidal, or they lost the fight and refuse to be a prisoner. In the first case I'd say... nvm, not touching that one 😅. As for the second case, there's always the option of non-lethal damage if you need to capture someone alive, so it would normally never come up.
I personally treat it as if, when someone dies, the soul lingers in the body for a minute; in that case refusing to revive wouldn't be an option. That isn't RAW though, it's just my interpretation
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You could use an ancient version of a spell (1st Ed) raise dead or resurrection which does not require the soul to be willing (it does have to be free ex. Not in a soul gem/coin). I bring this up for in a 5E novel an older character was reincarnated with all her memories intact. She used an ancient version of Haste (1st Ed) to age her self up from an infant to an adult. (Haste back then aged all recipients by one year). So in theory there are still old scrolls in lost tombs/dungeons that may do what you’re looking to do to a PC.
I was thinking more that it's a section under the world building chapter so it's an odd place to put a hard rule intended to impact spell descriptions; nothing else in that section comes close to resembling a mechanical rule except maybe currency exchange.
The fact that other spells explicitly require the willingness of the soul when revivify does not makes it seem more like this isn't intended to normally be a mechanical consideration, i.e- whoever was writing the spells considered that forced resurrection is possible by default mechanically, and that spells need to specify when they can't do it, otherwise revivify would surely say it as well.
Ultimately it doesn't really matter regardless; a PC is unlikely to refuse to be resurrected unless an NPC is doing it for some nefarious purpose, in which case it probably isn't within revivify's one minute time limit, meanwhile resurrection of an NPC is always up to the DM anyway because they have so many other ways out of it such as the body crumbling to dust, being cursed to prevent resurrection, the brain being damaged beyond repair or whatever.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I own a physical copy of the DMG rather than digital, but I'll copy the relevant section here
**Dungeon Master Guide - Chapter 1 - A world of your own - pg 24**
>***Bringing Back The Dead***
>When a creature dies, it's soul departs its body, leaves >the Material Plane, travels through the Astral Plane, >and goes to abide on the plane where the creature's >deity resides. If the creature didn't worship a deity, its >soul departs to the plane corresponding to its >alignment. Bringing someone back from the dead >means retrieving the soul from that plane and >returning it to its body.
>Enemies can take steps to make it more difficult for a >character to be returned from the dead. Keeping the >body prevents others from using *raise dead* or >*resurrection* to restore the slain character to life.
>A soul can't be returned to life if it doesn't wish to be. A >soul knows the name, alignment, and patron deity (if >any) of the character attempting to revive it and might >refuse to return on that basis. For example, if the >honorable knight Sturm Brightblade is slain and a high >priestess of Takhisis (God of evil dragons) grabs his >body, Sturm might not wish to be raised from the dead >by her. Any attempts she makes to revive him >automatically fail. If the evil cleric wants to revive >Sturm and interrogate him, she needs to find some >way to trick his soul, such as duping a good cleric into >raising him and then capturing him once he is alive >again.
I've always just assumed there was an unwritten mechanic that, after dying, it takes a full minute for the soul to leave the body. That would explain why Revivify is only effective for the 1st minute after death, the 1 action cast time (every other revival spell takes a full hour to cast), the comparatively low expense (3rd level spell slot & 500g diamond), and why the targets willingness to revive isn't factored in the spell description.
Whether someone is willing to revive or not is purely a roleplay mechanic, so it makes sense to categorize it a a world-building rule.
Revivify isn't much use outside of combat encounters since it only works within a minute of death, but the 1 action cast time makes it the only viable way to revive someone mid-combat. Someone who died in battle would normally never refuse to revive, either to get back in the fight or to retreat and survive.
The only reason I can imagine someone unwilling to revive in this context would be if they were planning on dying in the first place. Either they were suicidal, or they lost the fight and refuse to be a prisoner. In the first case I'd say... nvm, not touching that one 😅. As for the second case, there's always the option of non-lethal damage if you need to capture someone alive, so it would normally never come up.
I personally treat it as if, when someone dies, the soul lingers in the body for a minute; in that case refusing to revive wouldn't be an option. That isn't RAW though, it's just my interpretation