Hello everyone, new guy here I am not sure if I should post this here. I am dming a game right now and one of my players has casted Protection from Evil & Good in order to give the enemy Drow disadvantage on attacks against him. Now I checked the spell and in the words of Jeremy Crawford as well it affects only certain types of creatures regardless of nature. Now the dispute is that in the monster manual Drow are categorized as humanoid elves while my player says that in Mordekainen's Tome of Foes explains that all elves are Fey thus Drow are Fey creature types. Now, I gave it a quick look and my interpretation is that yes all elves(the primal elves as it says specifically in the book) were once Fey creatures like millennia ago but since the separation and the scutter lost that special connection thus only maintaining a hint of their Fey Ancestry(thus the trait). I looked everywhere about this but I couldn't find anyone that had that problem or questioned this. What are your thoughts?
EDIT: Also Eladrin is a playable race and the player says that they are Fey. That is one of his arguments, though again a tweet from Jeremy Crawford states that player controlled Eladrin are considered humanoids. In the monster manual they are categorized as Fey creatures so that is true in a way but that would also mean that drow would be categorized as Fey creatures too, which they are not. Yet again my player says that humanoids are just a seperation of form and not type of creature even though at Dragoncast (Sage Advice talks about Eladrin) says that in Mordekainen's Tome of Foes they reveal that Eladrin are humanoids with some being so deep in Fey magic that they become Fey creatures.
All in all regarding dealing with rules are Elves to be considered Fey creatures? Would that mean conjure Fey spell can summon elves too?
I think you got it exactly right: elves are humanoids descended from fey.
I think so as well. Would there be somewhere a Sage Advice that states this clearly(even more so)? Otherwise I believe it will be really hard to explain.
I understand that as well. But the the argument would rise that it is just for PCs(just as it stands for Eladrin as well, in some cases at least) and not a general fact about the categorization of the race. The player suggested for example that Dragonborns are having a humanoid FORM but they are not Humanoid creatures, they are dragonoids(? , I said that), even though they have their own Ancestry. So then another question stands, are humanoids just a form or a type of creature?
Eladrin (like all elves) have the fey ancestry trait, this means that they aren't fey themselves, they're just descended from them.
The monster manual suggests that Eladrin are medium Fey(Elves), at least the Summer,Winter,Spring, Autum ones, of chaotic nature. Though in Sage advice PC Eladrin are to be considered humanoids and even in the explanation of the lore in Dragoncast is revealed that only some Eladrin are so close to the Fey Magic that they themselves become Fey.
Here it says in regards to Drow that Elves WERE fey( link )
While some Eladrin have reverted to being fey, playable Eladrin are always humanoid, just like every other playable race and subrace.
A monster stat block has absolutely no bearing on a playable option even if both represent instances of the same fantasy folk. The playable race gives you the typical traits for an adventurer of that race and the monster stat blocks give you typical statistics for certain other members of that race.
Basically, all PCs are humanoids for game balance reasons involving spells that only target humanoids. Making a PC race that isn't considered humanoid would at the very least be a significant trait for their race and would be listed as such.
For NPCs, just use monster stat block. Eladrin commoner? Humanoid. Eladrin veteran? Humanoid. Autumn Eladrin fey? Fey.
DMG chapter 9 has a section on adapting NPC stat blocks to other races, including a few non-humanoids like skeletons. You just tweak their ability scores a little and give them a some of the traits typical of that kind of creature.
It's not addressed explicitly but it's pretty obvious you'd transfer the type of the creature; a skeleton guard wouldn't be a humanoid just because you're using the guard stat block as your base.
For NPCs use whatever creature type is in the stat block.
If the stat block for Drow says "Type: Humanoid" then they are humanoids. Humanoid is a mechanical category in D&D. You are the DM, you are free to make things what ever you want in your game. If a character would know that something is different to what might be given in the books it is generally good form to inform them of the change. If the character would not know you do not need to inform the player beforehand. It is quite possible for people living in your D&D world to believe that Grow are Fey, even if mechanically they are not.
You could have a seventy foot long, crustacean bodied, fifteen legged, eight armed, three headed "humanoid" monster if you wanted to. Despite the weird appearance it would interact with the game mechanics as a humanoid type. Not sure why you would want to open yourself up to the arguments and confusion that having it be "humanoid" would create, but mechanically you could do it.
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Hello everyone, new guy here I am not sure if I should post this here. I am dming a game right now and one of my players has casted Protection from Evil & Good in order to give the enemy Drow disadvantage on attacks against him. Now I checked the spell and in the words of Jeremy Crawford as well it affects only certain types of creatures regardless of nature. Now the dispute is that in the monster manual Drow are categorized as humanoid elves while my player says that in Mordekainen's Tome of Foes explains that all elves are Fey thus Drow are Fey creature types. Now, I gave it a quick look and my interpretation is that yes all elves(the primal elves as it says specifically in the book) were once Fey creatures like millennia ago but since the separation and the scutter lost that special connection thus only maintaining a hint of their Fey Ancestry(thus the trait). I looked everywhere about this but I couldn't find anyone that had that problem or questioned this. What are your thoughts?
EDIT: Also Eladrin is a playable race and the player says that they are Fey. That is one of his arguments, though again a tweet from Jeremy Crawford states that player controlled Eladrin are considered humanoids. In the monster manual they are categorized as Fey creatures so that is true in a way but that would also mean that drow would be categorized as Fey creatures too, which they are not. Yet again my player says that humanoids are just a seperation of form and not type of creature even though at Dragoncast (Sage Advice talks about Eladrin) says that in Mordekainen's Tome of Foes they reveal that Eladrin are humanoids with some being so deep in Fey magic that they become Fey creatures.
All in all regarding dealing with rules are Elves to be considered Fey creatures? Would that mean conjure Fey spell can summon elves too?
I think you got it exactly right: elves are humanoids descended from fey.
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I think so as well. Would there be somewhere a Sage Advice that states this clearly(even more so)? Otherwise I believe it will be really hard to explain.
You dont need a sage advice. It is in the basic rules. The first sentence of choosing a playable race says you are humanoid.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/step-by-step-characters#1ChooseaRace
Eladrin (like all elves) have the fey ancestry trait, this means that they aren't fey themselves, they're just descended from them.
I understand that as well. But the the argument would rise that it is just for PCs(just as it stands for Eladrin as well, in some cases at least) and not a general fact about the categorization of the race. The player suggested for example that Dragonborns are having a humanoid FORM but they are not Humanoid creatures, they are dragonoids(? , I said that), even though they have their own Ancestry. So then another question stands, are humanoids just a form or a type of creature?
The monster manual suggests that Eladrin are medium Fey(Elves), at least the Summer,Winter,Spring, Autum ones, of chaotic nature. Though in Sage advice PC Eladrin are to be considered humanoids and even in the explanation of the lore in Dragoncast is revealed that only some Eladrin are so close to the Fey Magic that they themselves become Fey.
Here it says in regards to Drow that Elves WERE fey( link )
While some Eladrin have reverted to being fey, playable Eladrin are always humanoid, just like every other playable race and subrace.
A monster stat block has absolutely no bearing on a playable option even if both represent instances of the same fantasy folk. The playable race gives you the typical traits for an adventurer of that race and the monster stat blocks give you typical statistics for certain other members of that race.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Basically, all PCs are humanoids for game balance reasons involving spells that only target humanoids. Making a PC race that isn't considered humanoid would at the very least be a significant trait for their race and would be listed as such.
The 5e rules define humanoids as a creature type not a "form". Creatures only have 1 creature type unless specifically stated otherwise.
The centaur race from GGtR is Fey instead of humanoid, because it has a trait that says so.
Thank you for your statements. I think I found what I was looking for here . I hope this is going to be enough to convince my player.
PS: The argument is around NPCs mostly (enemy drow) that was expanded to PCs
EDIT: The link should work now
Link goes nowhere.
For NPCs, just use monster stat block. Eladrin commoner? Humanoid. Eladrin veteran? Humanoid. Autumn Eladrin fey? Fey.
DMG chapter 9 has a section on adapting NPC stat blocks to other races, including a few non-humanoids like skeletons. You just tweak their ability scores a little and give them a some of the traits typical of that kind of creature.
It's not addressed explicitly but it's pretty obvious you'd transfer the type of the creature; a skeleton guard wouldn't be a humanoid just because you're using the guard stat block as your base.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
I'll concede that point.
Just make the Eladrin whatever monster race you want. You are the DM.
For NPCs use whatever creature type is in the stat block.
If the stat block for Drow says "Type: Humanoid" then they are humanoids. Humanoid is a mechanical category in D&D. You are the DM, you are free to make things what ever you want in your game. If a character would know that something is different to what might be given in the books it is generally good form to inform them of the change. If the character would not know you do not need to inform the player beforehand. It is quite possible for people living in your D&D world to believe that Grow are Fey, even if mechanically they are not.
You could have a seventy foot long, crustacean bodied, fifteen legged, eight armed, three headed "humanoid" monster if you wanted to. Despite the weird appearance it would interact with the game mechanics as a humanoid type. Not sure why you would want to open yourself up to the arguments and confusion that having it be "humanoid" would create, but mechanically you could do it.