The description for the Sword of Vengeance states "You can break the curse in the usual ways. Alternatively, casting banishment on the sword forces the vengeful spirit to leave it. The sword then becomes a +1 weapon with no other properties."
Banishment takes a target of one creature. Is it implied that you are casting the spell on the spirit inhabiting the sword? To do so, however, you must target the Sword. Is the Sword physically banished? I would say yes, since a creature so targeted is banished along with his items. But the wording is not specific enough.
The player character found a Sword of Vengeance on the Prime material plane, while traveling to the Feywild. If a Wizard in the Feywild casts banishment on the PC (or on the sword), then it is implied to me that the PC (or just the sword) returns to the Prime material plane, and the Spirit returns to some other plane, such as the Astral plane. If the banishment ends prematurely, then the PC, the sword, and the spirit all return.
This wording makes it seem all highly up to the DM.
To me, I think that the specific rule of the Sword of Vengeance would overrule the wording of Banishment. The sword specifically says that you can cast banishment on the sword to force the spirit out-- Now, what happens when the spirit is out? That sounds like it could make for a fun encounter. ;)
Banishment targets one creature (that you can see). General rules on targeting say you can't cast a spell at a target it doesn't support (in this case an item, or even the "vengeful spirit", since you can't see it).
So, general rule out of the way, the only way to properly utilize Banishment on the Sword of Vengeance is to follow exactly what its specific rules say (and nothing more). So, you can cast it on the sword, and the process causes the spirit to leave and the sword to become a +1 sword with no other properties. If the sword was banished to another plane, the specific rule would say so.
The DM could add flavor or complications in this process, as it suits the story, but the intended effect seems pretty straightforward to me.
Casting Banishment on the sword wouldn't banish the sword, just force the spirit out. It would be up to the DM on how the banishment affected the spirit. The banishment could force the spirit out, maybe it attaches to a different item or a nearby NPC, the spirit controls that NPC now and sets off to take vengeance on the party. Instant antagonist.
It would be interesting if the characters had this sword early in the campaign and the spirit attaches to their NPC wizard friend who has been bankrolling them on jobs and missions. Turns into a Dr. Jeykll Mr. Hyde sort of thing with the wizard having blank spots in his memory and blackouts where the spirit takes over. I might have just come up with my next groups T1 arc. Thanks.
Banishment targets one creature (that you can see). General rules on targeting say you can't cast a spell at a target it doesn't support (in this case an item, or even the "vengeful spirit", since you can't see it).
So, general rule out of the way, the only way to properly utilize Banishment on the Sword of Vengeance is to follow exactly what its specific rules say (and nothing more). So, you can cast it on the sword, and the process causes the spirit to leave and the sword to become a +1 sword with no other properties. If the sword was banished to another plane, the specific rule would say so.
The DM could add flavor or complications in this process, as it suits the story, but the intended effect seems pretty straightforward to me.
Following the general rule, I would say that you have to cast it on the person holding the sword. Since he is native to the Feywild, he would be banished back to the Prime Material plane, and stay there (along with the sword). The reason why I don't think banish applies to items is say you have acquired an item on another plane, then by being banished, you wouldn't return with all your items! Casting it on the sword implies that the spirit (eg creature) inhabits the sword and becomes an indirect target of the spell.
Casting Banishment on the sword wouldn't banish the sword, just force the spirit out. It would be up to the DM on how the banishment affected the spirit. The banishment could force the spirit out, maybe it attaches to a different item or a nearby NPC, the spirit controls that NPC now and sets off to take vengeance on the party. Instant antagonist.
It would be interesting if the characters had this sword early in the campaign and the spirit attaches to their NPC wizard friend who has been bankrolling them on jobs and missions. Turns into a Dr. Jeykll Mr. Hyde sort of thing with the wizard having blank spots in his memory and blackouts where the spirit takes over. I might have just come up with my next groups T1 arc. Thanks.
Well now the question is whether the creature is banished to another plane, or whether it returns! Is a spirit of a creature native to the Prime material plane also of the Prime material plane, or does it belong on another plane? Looking at Dispel Evil and Good, we see that Undead are forced to the Shadowfell. I think I will be playing it this way.
The rules of the item specifically alter the rules of the spell. You can cast banishment on the sword of vengeance to drive the spirit out of the sword. If you target the item, the spell's normal effects are not applicable. If you dont target the item, the spell behaves as normal.
Your question implies that the sword belongs to the spirit, but maybe that’s not the case. It’s possible, certainty. But it could also just be the spirit was forced into the sword. In that case, since the sword is not owned by the spirit, it would not go along with the spirit.
Following the general rule, I would say that you have to cast it on the person holding the sword. Since he is native to the Feywild, he would be banished back to the Prime Material plane, and stay there (along with the sword). The reason why I don't think banish applies to items is say you have acquired an item on another plane, then by being banished, you wouldn't return with all your items! Casting it on the sword implies that the spirit (eg creature) inhabits the sword and becomes an indirect target of the spell.
The thing here is that specific rules always trump general rules. Banishment can only be cast on creatures as a general rule. The sword includes a more specific rule saying that if you cast Banishment on it (not its wielder), it drives the vengeful spirit away and breaks the curse. This allows you to cast Banishment on the sword even though you can usually only cast Banishment on creatures.
You can certainly still cast Banishment on the wielder of the sword, and it would follow the usual effects of Banishment, but if you cast it for the sword's effects, you cast it on the sword - it doesn't even have to have a wielder/owner when you do.
The description for the Sword of Vengeance states "You can break the curse in the usual ways. Alternatively, casting banishment on the sword forces the vengeful spirit to leave it. The sword then becomes a +1 weapon with no other properties."
Banishment takes a target of one creature. Is it implied that you are casting the spell on the spirit inhabiting the sword? To do so, however, you must target the Sword. Is the Sword physically banished? I would say yes, since a creature so targeted is banished along with his items. But the wording is not specific enough.
The player character found a Sword of Vengeance on the Prime material plane, while traveling to the Feywild. If a Wizard in the Feywild casts banishment on the PC (or on the sword), then it is implied to me that the PC (or just the sword) returns to the Prime material plane, and the Spirit returns to some other plane, such as the Astral plane. If the banishment ends prematurely, then the PC, the sword, and the spirit all return.
This wording makes it seem all highly up to the DM.
To me, I think that the specific rule of the Sword of Vengeance would overrule the wording of Banishment. The sword specifically says that you can cast banishment on the sword to force the spirit out-- Now, what happens when the spirit is out? That sounds like it could make for a fun encounter. ;)
I think you're reading too much into it.
Banishment targets one creature (that you can see). General rules on targeting say you can't cast a spell at a target it doesn't support (in this case an item, or even the "vengeful spirit", since you can't see it).
So, general rule out of the way, the only way to properly utilize Banishment on the Sword of Vengeance is to follow exactly what its specific rules say (and nothing more). So, you can cast it on the sword, and the process causes the spirit to leave and the sword to become a +1 sword with no other properties. If the sword was banished to another plane, the specific rule would say so.
The DM could add flavor or complications in this process, as it suits the story, but the intended effect seems pretty straightforward to me.
Casting Banishment on the sword wouldn't banish the sword, just force the spirit out. It would be up to the DM on how the banishment affected the spirit. The banishment could force the spirit out, maybe it attaches to a different item or a nearby NPC, the spirit controls that NPC now and sets off to take vengeance on the party. Instant antagonist.
It would be interesting if the characters had this sword early in the campaign and the spirit attaches to their NPC wizard friend who has been bankrolling them on jobs and missions. Turns into a Dr. Jeykll Mr. Hyde sort of thing with the wizard having blank spots in his memory and blackouts where the spirit takes over. I might have just come up with my next groups T1 arc. Thanks.
Following the general rule, I would say that you have to cast it on the person holding the sword. Since he is native to the Feywild, he would be banished back to the Prime Material plane, and stay there (along with the sword). The reason why I don't think banish applies to items is say you have acquired an item on another plane, then by being banished, you wouldn't return with all your items! Casting it on the sword implies that the spirit (eg creature) inhabits the sword and becomes an indirect target of the spell.
Well now the question is whether the creature is banished to another plane, or whether it returns! Is a spirit of a creature native to the Prime material plane also of the Prime material plane, or does it belong on another plane? Looking at Dispel Evil and Good, we see that Undead are forced to the Shadowfell. I think I will be playing it this way.
The rules of the item specifically alter the rules of the spell. You can cast banishment on the sword of vengeance to drive the spirit out of the sword. If you target the item, the spell's normal effects are not applicable. If you dont target the item, the spell behaves as normal.
Your question implies that the sword belongs to the spirit, but maybe that’s not the case. It’s possible, certainty. But it could also just be the spirit was forced into the sword. In that case, since the sword is not owned by the spirit, it would not go along with the spirit.
The thing here is that specific rules always trump general rules. Banishment can only be cast on creatures as a general rule. The sword includes a more specific rule saying that if you cast Banishment on it (not its wielder), it drives the vengeful spirit away and breaks the curse. This allows you to cast Banishment on the sword even though you can usually only cast Banishment on creatures.
You can certainly still cast Banishment on the wielder of the sword, and it would follow the usual effects of Banishment, but if you cast it for the sword's effects, you cast it on the sword - it doesn't even have to have a wielder/owner when you do.
I think I'd make the Banishment force a ghost out of the sword, who would then try to use its possession ability on the wielder.