Arguably yes. Some have said RAI no, you just have 120 feet. I'm not sure that's RAW justifiable to use only part of the Sling's range and ignore close/long designators.... but it does make more sense in just about every way to just double the spell's range out to 120 when you use a sling.
Arguably yes. Some have said RAI no, you just have 120 feet. I'm not sure that's RAW justifiable to use only part of the Sling's range and ignore close/long designators.... but it does make more sense in just about every way to just double the spell's range out to 120 when you use a sling.
That’s how I treat it, as a flat 120-foot range. After all, every other ranged spell attack in 5e has a single flat range.
Otherwise, it only makes sense to treat it as if it has a range of 60/120 if nothing else at the very least.
I would add the sling damage in my game but that's just me. It seems that most people are saying that it just changed range and makes the ammunition magical but I think that discredits the fact that a stone coming out of a sling is going way faster and therefore hits way harder then just a thrown stone.
No, you would not get the +3. It is a spell that you can launch through a weapon, not a weapon attack. It is a shame that Magic Stone doesn't level up over time, but it's an incredibly good spell early on - since it allows you to add your spellcasting modifier - and you are also able to give decent attacks to other people.
If you ever have weak NPC companions, such as if you're doing an escort quest or defending a town or something, you can use a single bonus action to allow 3 of them to make a 1d6+your spellcasting modifier ranged attack. That's pretty darn potent.
I believe this is why it doesn't level up over time. All you need is 3 commoners and you can do 3d6 + 3x your spell modifier damage as a bonus action.
Sorry that I am late to the post and sorry If I missed someones take on this, but I think it should work, since a +x weapon doesn't require a weapon attack.
To quote a +x weapon:
You have a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with this magic weapon.
There is no text that this has to be a weapon attack, only that is has to be used fo an attack and magic stone specificaly states that using a sling with it is a spell attack.
The attack doesn't qualify for anything that requires a weapon attack, but it does work with a feature that requires a ranged weapon if you use a sling.
So if you have a sling +1, and you use it as part of "casting"/hurling a magic stone, it is indeed used and should apply its featur (the +x bonus)
No, you would not get the +3. It is a spell that you can launch through a weapon, not a weapon attack. It is a shame that Magic Stone doesn't level up over time, but it's an incredibly good spell early on - since it allows you to add your spellcasting modifier - and you are also able to give decent attacks to other people.
If you ever have weak NPC companions, such as if you're doing an escort quest or defending a town or something, you can use a single bonus action to allow 3 of them to make a 1d6+your spellcasting modifier ranged attack. That's pretty darn potent.
I believe this is why it doesn't level up over time. All you need is 3 commoners and you can do 3d6 + 3x your spell modifier damage as a bonus action.
Sorry that I am late to the post and sorry If I missed someones take on this, but I think it should work, since a +x weapon doesn't require a weapon attack.
To quote a +x weapon:
You have a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with this magic weapon.
There is no text that this has to be a weapon attack, only that is has to be used fo an attack and magic stone specificaly states that using a ling with it is a spell attack.
The attack doesn't qualify for anything that requires a weapon attack, but it does work with a feature that requires a ranged weapon if you use a sling.
So if you have a sling +1, and you use it as part of "casting"/hurling a magic stone, it is indeed used and should apply its featur (the +x bonus)
That's not sage advice, FYI. Sage Advice is in the Sage Advice Compendium. Your link doesn't go to a WOTC-endorsed source.
No, you would not get the +3. It is a spell that you can launch through a weapon, not a weapon attack. It is a shame that Magic Stone doesn't level up over time, but it's an incredibly good spell early on - since it allows you to add your spellcasting modifier - and you are also able to give decent attacks to other people.
If you ever have weak NPC companions, such as if you're doing an escort quest or defending a town or something, you can use a single bonus action to allow 3 of them to make a 1d6+your spellcasting modifier ranged attack. That's pretty darn potent.
I believe this is why it doesn't level up over time. All you need is 3 commoners and you can do 3d6 + 3x your spell modifier damage as a bonus action.
Sorry that I am late to the post and sorry If I missed someones take on this, but I think it should work, since a +x weapon doesn't require a weapon attack.
To quote a +x weapon:
You have a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with this magic weapon.
There is no text that this has to be a weapon attack, only that is has to be used fo an attack and magic stone specificaly states that using a ling with it is a spell attack.
The attack doesn't qualify for anything that requires a weapon attack, but it does work with a feature that requires a ranged weapon if you use a sling.
So if you have a sling +1, and you use it as part of "casting"/hurling a magic stone, it is indeed used and should apply its featur (the +x bonus)
That's not sage advice, FYI. Sage Advice is in the Sage Advice Compendium. Your link doesn't go to a WOTC-endorsed source.
That website compiles all of Crawford’s tweets answering rules questions under the name “Sage Advice.” So technically you’re both right about whether or not it’s “save advice.” 😉
However, I believe Tenshinzo may be at least partially correct regarding the RAW. The item reads as follows:
”You have a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with this magic weapon.“
Slinging a magic stone is technically “a ranged spell attack made using a ranged weapon,” which is why Sneak Attack and Sharpshooter’s 3rd bullet point apply. If the sling in question happens to be a sling, +1, it would be an attack “made with” that weapon. The bonus to the damage roll might not technically apply because it’s using the spell’s damage, not the weapon’s, but the bonus to the attack roll should apply. (As a DM, I would personally apply the bonus to both Attack and Damage rolls because fun.)
I would say that because throwing a rock doesn't have damage on its own magic stone has to go into that but with slings it gets both the range and the damage. I would also say that because if you look really hard it says "If thrown" telling you the damage which may or may not be interpreted as when you use a sling you get 1d4 + 1d6 + modifiers for using actual equipment when slinging rocks. Either way does this one spell/item combo have to have a dedicated 4 page thread?
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Throwing a regular rock counts as an improvised weapon. You do not add your PB to the attack roll, it has a range of 20/60, and it does 1d4 bludgeoning damage. Throwing a Magic Stone is different. You do add your PB to the attack roll, the range is a flat 60 ft., and the damage is 1d6.
Going back to Sposta's previous post, slinging magic stones has some interesting implications with archery too, and moon sickle. It's just super bonus action hungry. I wish this spell worked a bit more like shillelagh, where you could continuously make attacks for a minute somehow, rather than just 3.
Going back to Sposta's previous post, slinging magic stones has some interesting implications with archery too, and moon sickle. It's just super bonus action hungry. I wish this spell worked a bit more like shillelagh, where you could continuously make attacks for a minute somehow, rather than just 3.
Well, most combats aren't going to last more than 4 rounds anyway, so it's only really a problem if being used by a class with Extra Attack.
Going back to Sposta's previous post, slinging magic stones has some interesting implications with archery too, and moon sickle. It's just super bonus action hungry. I wish this spell worked a bit more like shillelagh, where you could continuously make attacks for a minute somehow, rather than just 3.
Well, most combats aren't going to last more than 4 rounds anyway, so it's only really a problem if being used by a class with Extra Attack.
Exactly. It is almost a beautiful option to make your single ability dependent ranged wisdom ranger. But it doesn't quite line up, and certainly doesn't allow for full archery damage optimization using XBE or some other source of bonus action attacks.
Also I think you'd have to cast it *every* round technically, as a ranger, since I don't think you can cast a spell between your two attacks in your attack action. But I'm not really certain on that. I know you can move, but I think that is all the rules say that you can do between your attacks in your attack action. So, under that ruling you'd need 2 stones ready before each attack.
I houserule that you can use bonus actions between attacks. Like, if a player forgets to Rage, or hex / hunter’s mark their target at the beginning of their turn and remembers after the first attack I won’t knock them for the full turn. I let them do it and then finish attacking. I would do the same for magic stone too. It’s sposta be fun after all. Right?
Going back to Sposta's previous post, slinging magic stones has some interesting implications with archery too, and moon sickle. It's just super bonus action hungry. I wish this spell worked a bit more like shillelagh, where you could continuously make attacks for a minute somehow, rather than just 3.
There's a fundamental difference between Magic Stone and Shillelagh though.
Shillelagh gets cast on a weapon and it's benefits can only be used by you (the spell ends if you hand the club off to someone else). Magic Stone gets cast on ammunition and it's benefits can be used by you or "someone else."
The only way to get more attacks out of shillelagh on your turn is features that let you attack more. Magic stone lets you spread the stones around to other creatures to get more damage per round. It's a spell that works quite well with minions.
Forgive me as I know this is a bit late, but I actually think you do get the +3 bonus. Maybe it's a RAW vs RAI thing (Although idk, both arguments seem pretty logical to me) but at least with RAW the spell's description says you can make the spell attack "with the sling." Under a Sling +3's description it says "You have a +3 bonus to attack and damage rolls made *with* this magic weapon."
While I understand that maybe you can't get the sling's d4 of damage from this, as the stone is the main source of attack and not the sling, it only makes sense to do it this way, at least imo, bc otherwise it would be odd to have a selective rule that the sling's inherent magic bonus doesn't work for the stone but somehow suddenly the sling does allow for things like sneak attack or sharpshooter to work when they otherwise couldn't. In my eyes at least this is proof enough that you're making the attack *with* the weapon in at least some capacity.
But idk, there have been stranger rulings and I could be wrong. I haven't seen any official word on the matter but if I were DM-ing this is the call I'd make.
Hey, I had some questions and thoughts of my own about this combo... hope it's okay to post them here as it's been a while.
Do you use the sling's range or the stone's range when attacking? I know that it's a ranged spell attack made with a ranged weapon, but what range of the two does it use?
Relating to the first question, does the spell sniper feat apply to this attack? What about the sorcerer's distant spell metamagic?
Finally, does the archery fighting style apply to this attack?
Edit: Can you use the sorcerer's empowered spell metamagic on sneak attack damage that comes from this attack?
Also, I personally feel like the Inquisitive subclass is better for this than the Swashbuckler, as while the Swashbuckler gets to add their Charisma mod to initiative, Swashbucklers are very melee oriented. Inquisitive allows the rogue to be able to sneak attack enemies without needing advantage, gives them better abilities to spot hidden enemies and snipe them from afar, and Steady Aim on top of it all would make for a great sniper build. Out of combat, Inquisitive is more versatile too, making for great investigators.
An idea I thought of is combining Inquisitive with 2 levels of Hexblade to get Hexblade's curse, long range eldritch blast shenanigans, hex, the whole deal. Metamagic adept can get twinned spell and quickened spell, allowing you to do a sharpshooter stone attack into a bunch of deadly eldritch blasts with agonizing blast and eldritch spear. If archery works with the stone attack, I'll take 2 levels in fighter for action surge and archery to make things crazier. Assuming spell sniper and distant spell work with this magic stone attack, you've got 240 ft of range with magic stone (assuming you're using the stone's range). Do the same with eldritch blast, adding on eldritch spear, you've got a 1200 ft range eldritch blast. Absolutely bonkers.
The second bullet point of the Spell Sniper feat would apply, but not the first or third. (That being said, the third bullet point of the Sharpshooter feat would also apply, but not the first or second.)
Metamagic adept can get twinned spell and quickened spell, allowing you to do a sharpshooter stone attack into a bunch of deadly eldritch blasts with agonizing blast and eldritch spear.
Also of note, Twinned Spell does not work with Magic Stone (since depending on interpretation it either targets no creatures or has the capability to target up to three) nor does it work with Eldritch Blast once you hit character level 5. You can Quicken Eldritch Blast, but, if you're only working with Metamagic Adept, it's a once-per-day trick.
POV: Instead of this insanity we just agree to have it be d6 shillelagh (that scales over time possibly) and by using a sling you get sling range and magic mod but no damage. Simple way to get out of a hole the designers dug is homebrew. (to make up for 1d6+1d4 simple cantrip > 1d10 2 handed, martial, polearm)
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Every post these dice roll increasing my chances of winning the yahtzee thread (I wish (wait not the twist the wish threa-!))
So let me get this straight...
I throw a magic stone. It has a range of 60 feet. No disadvantage.
I load a magic stone into a sling. It has a normal range of 30 feet, and a long range of 120?
So I am more accurate from 31 to 60 feet throwing it with my hand, rather than launching it with a sling?
Arguably yes. Some have said RAI no, you just have 120 feet. I'm not sure that's RAW justifiable to use only part of the Sling's range and ignore close/long designators.... but it does make more sense in just about every way to just double the spell's range out to 120 when you use a sling.
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That’s how I treat it, as a flat 120-foot range. After all, every other ranged spell attack in 5e has a single flat range.
Otherwise, it only makes sense to treat it as if it has a range of 60/120 if nothing else at the very least.
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I would add the sling damage in my game but that's just me. It seems that most people are saying that it just changed range and makes the ammunition magical but I think that discredits the fact that a stone coming out of a sling is going way faster and therefore hits way harder then just a thrown stone.
Sorry that I am late to the post and sorry If I missed someones take on this, but I think it should work, since a +x weapon doesn't require a weapon attack.
To quote a +x weapon:
There is no text that this has to be a weapon attack, only that is has to be used fo an attack and magic stone specificaly states that using a sling with it is a spell attack.
Also, if we look at the sage advice:
So if you have a sling +1, and you use it as part of "casting"/hurling a magic stone, it is indeed used and should apply its featur (the +x bonus)
That's not sage advice, FYI. Sage Advice is in the Sage Advice Compendium. Your link doesn't go to a WOTC-endorsed source.
That website compiles all of Crawford’s tweets answering rules questions under the name “Sage Advice.” So technically you’re both right about whether or not it’s “save advice.” 😉
However, I believe Tenshinzo may be at least partially correct regarding the RAW. The item reads as follows:
Slinging a magic stone is technically “a ranged spell attack made using a ranged weapon,” which is why Sneak Attack and Sharpshooter’s 3rd bullet point apply. If the sling in question happens to be a sling, +1, it would be an attack “made with” that weapon. The bonus to the damage roll might not technically apply because it’s using the spell’s damage, not the weapon’s, but the bonus to the attack roll should apply. (As a DM, I would personally apply the bonus to both Attack and Damage rolls because fun.)
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I would say that because throwing a rock doesn't have damage on its own magic stone has to go into that but with slings it gets both the range and the damage. I would also say that because if you look really hard it says "If thrown" telling you the damage which may or may not be interpreted as when you use a sling you get 1d4 + 1d6 + modifiers for using actual equipment when slinging rocks. Either way does this one spell/item combo have to have a dedicated 4 page thread?
[roll]7d6[/roll]
Every post these dice roll increasing my chances of winning the yahtzee thread (I wish (wait not the twist the wish threa-!))
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After having been invited to include both here, I now combine the "PM me CHEESE 🧀 and tomato into PM me "PIZZA🍕"
Throwing a regular rock counts as an improvised weapon. You do not add your PB to the attack roll, it has a range of 20/60, and it does 1d4 bludgeoning damage. Throwing a Magic Stone is different. You do add your PB to the attack roll, the range is a flat 60 ft., and the damage is 1d6.
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Going back to Sposta's previous post, slinging magic stones has some interesting implications with archery too, and moon sickle. It's just super bonus action hungry. I wish this spell worked a bit more like shillelagh, where you could continuously make attacks for a minute somehow, rather than just 3.
Well, most combats aren't going to last more than 4 rounds anyway, so it's only really a problem if being used by a class with Extra Attack.
Exactly. It is almost a beautiful option to make your single ability dependent ranged wisdom ranger. But it doesn't quite line up, and certainly doesn't allow for full archery damage optimization using XBE or some other source of bonus action attacks.
Also I think you'd have to cast it *every* round technically, as a ranger, since I don't think you can cast a spell between your two attacks in your attack action. But I'm not really certain on that. I know you can move, but I think that is all the rules say that you can do between your attacks in your attack action. So, under that ruling you'd need 2 stones ready before each attack.
I houserule that you can use bonus actions between attacks. Like, if a player forgets to Rage, or hex / hunter’s mark their target at the beginning of their turn and remembers after the first attack I won’t knock them for the full turn. I let them do it and then finish attacking. I would do the same for magic stone too. It’s sposta be fun after all. Right?
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There's a fundamental difference between Magic Stone and Shillelagh though.
Shillelagh gets cast on a weapon and it's benefits can only be used by you (the spell ends if you hand the club off to someone else).
Magic Stone gets cast on ammunition and it's benefits can be used by you or "someone else."
The only way to get more attacks out of shillelagh on your turn is features that let you attack more. Magic stone lets you spread the stones around to other creatures to get more damage per round. It's a spell that works quite well with minions.
I don't disagree, but that is what makes the particular use case I described bad when it is so close to being like the melee counterpart.
Forgive me as I know this is a bit late, but I actually think you do get the +3 bonus. Maybe it's a RAW vs RAI thing (Although idk, both arguments seem pretty logical to me) but at least with RAW the spell's description says you can make the spell attack "with the sling." Under a Sling +3's description it says "You have a +3 bonus to attack and damage rolls made *with* this magic weapon."
While I understand that maybe you can't get the sling's d4 of damage from this, as the stone is the main source of attack and not the sling, it only makes sense to do it this way, at least imo, bc otherwise it would be odd to have a selective rule that the sling's inherent magic bonus doesn't work for the stone but somehow suddenly the sling does allow for things like sneak attack or sharpshooter to work when they otherwise couldn't. In my eyes at least this is proof enough that you're making the attack *with* the weapon in at least some capacity.
But idk, there have been stranger rulings and I could be wrong. I haven't seen any official word on the matter but if I were DM-ing this is the call I'd make.
Hey, I had some questions and thoughts of my own about this combo... hope it's okay to post them here as it's been a while.
Do you use the sling's range or the stone's range when attacking? I know that it's a ranged spell attack made with a ranged weapon, but what range of the two does it use?
Relating to the first question, does the spell sniper feat apply to this attack? What about the sorcerer's distant spell metamagic?
Finally, does the archery fighting style apply to this attack?
Edit: Can you use the sorcerer's empowered spell metamagic on sneak attack damage that comes from this attack?
Also, I personally feel like the Inquisitive subclass is better for this than the Swashbuckler, as while the Swashbuckler gets to add their Charisma mod to initiative, Swashbucklers are very melee oriented. Inquisitive allows the rogue to be able to sneak attack enemies without needing advantage, gives them better abilities to spot hidden enemies and snipe them from afar, and Steady Aim on top of it all would make for a great sniper build. Out of combat, Inquisitive is more versatile too, making for great investigators.
An idea I thought of is combining Inquisitive with 2 levels of Hexblade to get Hexblade's curse, long range eldritch blast shenanigans, hex, the whole deal. Metamagic adept can get twinned spell and quickened spell, allowing you to do a sharpshooter stone attack into a bunch of deadly eldritch blasts with agonizing blast and eldritch spear. If archery works with the stone attack, I'll take 2 levels in fighter for action surge and archery to make things crazier. Assuming spell sniper and distant spell work with this magic stone attack, you've got 240 ft of range with magic stone (assuming you're using the stone's range). Do the same with eldritch blast, adding on eldritch spear, you've got a 1200 ft range eldritch blast. Absolutely bonkers.
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Also of note, Twinned Spell does not work with Magic Stone (since depending on interpretation it either targets no creatures or has the capability to target up to three) nor does it work with Eldritch Blast once you hit character level 5. You can Quicken Eldritch Blast, but, if you're only working with Metamagic Adept, it's a once-per-day trick.
POV: Instead of this insanity we just agree to have it be d6 shillelagh (that scales over time possibly) and by using a sling you get sling range and magic mod but no damage. Simple way to get out of a hole the designers dug is homebrew. (to make up for 1d6+1d4 simple cantrip > 1d10 2 handed, martial, polearm)
[roll]7d6[/roll]
Every post these dice roll increasing my chances of winning the yahtzee thread (I wish (wait not the twist the wish threa-!))
Drummer Generated Title
After having been invited to include both here, I now combine the "PM me CHEESE 🧀 and tomato into PM me "PIZZA🍕"