I had a question about the spell Flaming Sphere and it's effect zone. We disagree with my DM, nad i will take his interpretation of the rule, yet i wanted to know if Imisinterpreted the spell. It's important as to me it make a huge difference. The spell state that it create a 5 foot diameter Sphere, then that everyone in a 5 foot range of said sphere take damage at the end of their turn if in the area. To me it mean that the splat of the sphere is as such, if each eltter is a square in a battle map : O O O O O S = The Sphere O X X X O X = Area O X S X O O = unaffected Tiles/Square O X X X O O O O O O
However my GM stated that It was either a 2 tile cube, or that i could choose either a 3 tile wide cross diagonals ot classic X X X X X X X or X X X Or X X X X
As you can see it drastically change the effect of the sphere and it's usefulness. Because my point is to use it as a backline damage dealing spell, with 2 melee characters holding the line and this spelle inflicting damage, the wideness of the area is the main point.
I had to go re-read flaming sphere, because usually the sizes of effects are given as radii, not diameters.
Your interpretation is correct, according to the “diagonals count as one square” distance measurement method. In general, I like using templates and “more than half covered by the area” rule, but the 8 squares surrounding the sphere would all be more than half covered.
mapping circles & spheres onto grids can get a bit confusing!
The flaming sphere spell is, as you mention a 5 ft. diameter, which means it fits neatly into a 5 ft square on a grid in itself.
I found the following image on the internet that may help. The grid is 5ft squares. The red circle represents the flaming sphere in a square on the grid. The lighter red square indicates all squares that are considered to be, "within 5 feet of the sphere"
I have seen discussion on the internet about whether the diagonal squares should be included or not.
Generally speaking, Dungeons & Dragons counts diagonals as 5ft the same as horizontal movement - there is an optional rule on diagonals in the DMG to make that more geometrically correct.
The image Stormknight posted is perfect. The Flaming Sphere occupies an entire square itself, and the damaging range is all of the 5-foot squares surrounding the square occupied by the sphere. The total area affected by the spell is the 3x3 square grid.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Thanks to you all. I have a following question though, which have been brought up once the "Hard" sphere part was cleared. It's about the Ramming. Does ramming the sphere on an ennemy stop the sphere "ON" said ennemy or the case next to it ? If the second answer, let's ask for argument sake that the target is at exactly 30 feet from the sphere, would it be possible to ram it ?
If someone shove (with Eldritch Blast push for example) an enemy in contact with the hard sphere (which, by Raw is solide), would damage be directly aplied as if rammed ? And if so, if there is any damage boost available by the caster, would it be used ?
Thanks to you all. I have a following question though, which have been brought up once the "Hard" sphere part was cleared. It's about the Ramming. Does ramming the sphere on an ennemy stop the sphere "ON" said ennemy or the case next to it ? If the second answer, let's ask for argument sake that the target is at exactly 30 feet from the sphere, would it be possible to ram it ?
If someone shove (with Eldritch Blast push for example) an enemy in contact with the hard sphere (which, by Raw is solide), would damage be directly aplied as if rammed ? And if so, if there is any damage boost available by the caster, would it be used ?
Thanks for your time.
It occupies an actual square, and is not listed as simply becoming difficult terrain. The sphere will stop moving in the square adjacent to the creature it is ramming. If the creature is exactly 30 feet away (6 empty squares), that creature can be "rammed", and the sphere will stop in the adjacent square.
There are two conditions for a creature to take damage from the sphere: ending their turn adjacent to the sphere, and the caster using a bonus action (on their turn) to ram. Forced movement of a creature does not trigger either of these conditions.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
mapping circles & spheres onto grids can get a bit confusing!
The flaming sphere spell is, as you mention a 5 ft. diameter, which means it fits neatly into a 5 ft square on a grid in itself.
I found the following image on the internet that may help. The grid is 5ft squares. The red circle represents the flaming sphere in a square on the grid. The lighter red square indicates all squares that are considered to be, "within 5 feet of the sphere"
I have seen discussion on the internet about whether the diagonal squares should be included or not.
Generally speaking, Dungeons & Dragons counts diagonals as 5ft the same as horizontal movement - there is an optional rule on diagonals in the DMG to make that more geometrically correct.
A 5-foot-diameter sphere of fire appears in an unoccupied space of your choice within range and lasts for the duration. Any creature that ends its turn within 5 feet of the sphere must make a Dexterity saving throw.
The cardinal points of the sphere basically touch the edges of the square it's on, and the 5-foot distance for creatures affected is measured from that. (This is a different AoE from a spell whose circular/spherical area of effect that extends a certain distance from a point you choose.) Thus, this image depicts the area within which creatures who end their turn there are affected:
I'm not sure of the exact math here, but I do think more than half of the diagonal squares are affected, so they would be affected.
The "diagonal count the same distance" rule certainly works for determining ranges as well (from the Variant: Playing on a Grid sidebar, PHB p.192):
Ranges. To determine the range on a grid between two things—whether creatures or objects—start counting squares from a square adjacent to one of them and stop counting in the space of the other one. Count by the shortest route.
And back to the question of whether the "more than half" rule covers the diagonals: The area of that circle is 7.06 (so just over 7) squares. We can simplify things and just say that 5 squares of that 7+ are taken up by the center, and the 4 face touching squares; this is an over estimate but is safe to make because it means we are underestimating the area of the diagonal squares. The 4 diagonal squares share (more than) 2.06 squares, so they each have just over half. They should count.
Addendum: I wouldn’t actually go to all that work during the game to find out; if it looks about half that would be close enough for me. On the other hand, I love thinking about this type of problem.
Hey Does the flaming sphere Touch the ground., or if not.. still burn the ground under it as its within 5 feet. and as such can it float?
Say its cast on frozen floor? shld it melt it.
Axis
The sphere is subjected to gravity and damages objects in its AOE including the ground. The rules don't specify, but I would guess it floats on the surface of water.
Hey Does the flaming sphere Touch the ground., or if not.. still burn the ground under it as its within 5 feet. and as such can it float?
Say its cast on frozen floor? shld it melt it.
Axis
The sphere is subjected to gravity and damages objects in its AOE including the ground. The rules don't specify, but I would guess it floats on the surface of water.
Hey Does the flaming sphere Touch the ground., or if not.. still burn the ground under it as its within 5 feet. and as such can it float?
Say its cast on frozen floor? shld it melt it.
Axis
The sphere is subjected to gravity and damages objects in its AOE including the ground. The rules don't specify, but I would guess it floats on the surface of water.
Though there can certainly be objects on the ground that are ignited.
I should have said possibly including the ground. The ground can be an object if it is a ship or building (the floor being one of many objects that comprise said ship or building).
It is all up to DM really. If you roll a flaming bowling ball across the wooden floor of my building, it is on fire now.
Simple rule of thumb: if something that isn't clearly a creature has/could have HP, then it most likely counts as an object. A plain doesn't have HP, but a tree on the plain could. The tree could (and definitely should) be ignited.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I would advise you to figure out what is the main difference between circle and sphere...
I would advise you to keep your comments helpful. This in no way helps to decide what is within 5 feet of the spell effect or determine ranges on a grid. Nor does it even point out a particular problem with any of the arguments made here. Finally, it doesn't provide a simple solution that you could use at the table to help solve the issue quickly.
A related problem is the spell ice knife. Normally, radius spells are targeted at grid intersections, so a 5' radius spell hits everything in a 2x2 area, but ice knife is targeted at a creature.
The key here might be that it is, like flaming sphere, actually "creatures within 5' of the target", but in that case if I target a Huge creature, does it actually affect every target within 5' of the target's edge (which is something like a 5x5 area on the map)?
A related problem is the spell ice knife. Normally, radius spells are targeted at grid intersections, so a 5' radius spell hits everything in a 2x2 area, but ice knife is targeted at a creature.
The key here might be that it is, like flaming sphere, actually "creatures within 5' of the target", but in that case if I target a Huge creature, does it actually affect every target within 5' of the target's edge (which is something like a 5x5 area on the map)?
That's not so much a related problem to Flaming Sphere as it is a reading-comprehension problem (not directed at anyone).
Ice Knife targets a creature, and the explosion targets everything within 5 feet of the creature. It affects every square adjacent to the square(s) occupied by the creature. A huge-sized target would lead to a 5x5 explosion.
Flaming Sphere occupies a 5ft square itself, and affects all squares adjacent to the one in which it occupies.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
At some point you have to stop thinking so overly mechanical and ruling things into precision. If the other creature is within 5 feet of the target creature (grids not being a concern) it affects them.
The world isn't made on a grid, so better rely on common sense and DM adjustication than getting out rulers for the minis.
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[ For Ice Knife ]...if I target a Huge creature, does it actually affect every target within 5' of the target's edge (which is something like a 5x5 area on the map)?
Hey everyone.
I had a question about the spell Flaming Sphere and it's effect zone. We disagree with my DM, nad i will take his interpretation of the rule, yet i wanted to know if Imisinterpreted the spell.
It's important as to me it make a huge difference.
The spell state that it create a 5 foot diameter Sphere, then that everyone in a 5 foot range of said sphere take damage at the end of their turn if in the area.
To me it mean that the splat of the sphere is as such, if each eltter is a square in a battle map :
O O O O O S = The Sphere
O X X X O X = Area
O X S X O O = unaffected Tiles/Square
O X X X O
O O O O O
However my GM stated that It was either a 2 tile cube, or that i could choose either a 3 tile wide cross diagonals ot classic
X X X X X
X X or X X X Or X
X X X
As you can see it drastically change the effect of the sphere and it's usefulness. Because my point is to use it as a backline damage dealing spell, with 2 melee characters holding the line and this spelle inflicting damage, the wideness of the area is the main point.
I had to go re-read flaming sphere, because usually the sizes of effects are given as radii, not diameters.
Your interpretation is correct, according to the “diagonals count as one square” distance measurement method. In general, I like using templates and “more than half covered by the area” rule, but the 8 squares surrounding the sphere would all be more than half covered.
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D&D Beyond FoundersHi there,
mapping circles & spheres onto grids can get a bit confusing!
The flaming sphere spell is, as you mention a 5 ft. diameter, which means it fits neatly into a 5 ft square on a grid in itself.
I found the following image on the internet that may help. The grid is 5ft squares. The red circle represents the flaming sphere in a square on the grid. The lighter red square indicates all squares that are considered to be, "within 5 feet of the sphere"
I have seen discussion on the internet about whether the diagonal squares should be included or not.
Generally speaking, Dungeons & Dragons counts diagonals as 5ft the same as horizontal movement - there is an optional rule on diagonals in the DMG to make that more geometrically correct.
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Thanks you for the quick answer !
I will give this point to my DM, just to be clear because i think the confusing aspect was mentioning the Sphere of five foot THEN the area.
Have a good day.
The image Stormknight posted is perfect. The Flaming Sphere occupies an entire square itself, and the damaging range is all of the 5-foot squares surrounding the square occupied by the sphere. The total area affected by the spell is the 3x3 square grid.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Thanks to you all. I have a following question though, which have been brought up once the "Hard" sphere part was cleared.
It's about the Ramming.
Does ramming the sphere on an ennemy stop the sphere "ON" said ennemy or the case next to it ? If the second answer, let's ask for argument sake that the target is at exactly 30 feet from the sphere, would it be possible to ram it ?
If someone shove (with Eldritch Blast push for example) an enemy in contact with the hard sphere (which, by Raw is solide), would damage be directly aplied as if rammed ? And if so, if there is any damage boost available by the caster, would it be used ?
Thanks for your time.
It occupies an actual square, and is not listed as simply becoming difficult terrain. The sphere will stop moving in the square adjacent to the creature it is ramming. If the creature is exactly 30 feet away (6 empty squares), that creature can be "rammed", and the sphere will stop in the adjacent square.
There are two conditions for a creature to take damage from the sphere: ending their turn adjacent to the sphere, and the caster using a bonus action (on their turn) to ram. Forced movement of a creature does not trigger either of these conditions.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
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ModeratorI think the "diagonals count the same distance" rule only applies to movement. I think this would be the relevant rule, from the DMG under "Areas of Effect" (under "Using Miniatures"): https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dmg/running-the-game#AreasofEffect
Since the wording of flaming sphere does say:
The cardinal points of the sphere basically touch the edges of the square it's on, and the 5-foot distance for creatures affected is measured from that. (This is a different AoE from a spell whose circular/spherical area of effect that extends a certain distance from a point you choose.) Thus, this image depicts the area within which creatures who end their turn there are affected:
I'm not sure of the exact math here, but I do think more than half of the diagonal squares are affected, so they would be affected.
The "diagonal count the same distance" rule certainly works for determining ranges as well (from the Variant: Playing on a Grid sidebar, PHB p.192):
And back to the question of whether the "more than half" rule covers the diagonals: The area of that circle is 7.06 (so just over 7) squares. We can simplify things and just say that 5 squares of that 7+ are taken up by the center, and the 4 face touching squares; this is an over estimate but is safe to make because it means we are underestimating the area of the diagonal squares. The 4 diagonal squares share (more than) 2.06 squares, so they each have just over half. They should count.
Addendum: I wouldn’t actually go to all that work during the game to find out; if it looks about half that would be close enough for me. On the other hand, I love thinking about this type of problem.
Hey Does the flaming sphere Touch the ground., or if not.. still burn the ground under it as its within 5 feet. and as such can it float?
Say its cast on frozen floor? shld it melt it.
Axis
The sphere is subjected to gravity and damages objects in its AOE including the ground. The rules don't specify, but I would guess it floats on the surface of water.
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ModeratorThe ground isn't an object, in the 5e rules sense: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/running-the-game#Objects
Though there can certainly be objects on the ground that are ignited.
I should have said possibly including the ground. The ground can be an object if it is a ship or building (the floor being one of many objects that comprise said ship or building).
It is all up to DM really. If you roll a flaming bowling ball across the wooden floor of my building, it is on fire now.
Simple rule of thumb: if something that isn't clearly a creature has/could have HP, then it most likely counts as an object. A plain doesn't have HP, but a tree on the plain could. The tree could (and definitely should) be ignited.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I would advise you to figure out what is the main difference between the circle and sphere...Perhaps this article https://differencebtwn.com/difference-between-circle-and-sphere can help you solve the problem.
I would advise you to keep your comments helpful. This in no way helps to decide what is within 5 feet of the spell effect or determine ranges on a grid. Nor does it even point out a particular problem with any of the arguments made here. Finally, it doesn't provide a simple solution that you could use at the table to help solve the issue quickly.
A related problem is the spell ice knife. Normally, radius spells are targeted at grid intersections, so a 5' radius spell hits everything in a 2x2 area, but ice knife is targeted at a creature.
The key here might be that it is, like flaming sphere, actually "creatures within 5' of the target", but in that case if I target a Huge creature, does it actually affect every target within 5' of the target's edge (which is something like a 5x5 area on the map)?
That's not so much a related problem to Flaming Sphere as it is a reading-comprehension problem (not directed at anyone).
Ice Knife targets a creature, and the explosion targets everything within 5 feet of the creature. It affects every square adjacent to the square(s) occupied by the creature. A huge-sized target would lead to a 5x5 explosion.
Flaming Sphere occupies a 5ft square itself, and affects all squares adjacent to the one in which it occupies.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
At some point you have to stop thinking so overly mechanical and ruling things into precision. If the other creature is within 5 feet of the target creature (grids not being a concern) it affects them.
The world isn't made on a grid, so better rely on common sense and DM adjustication than getting out rulers for the minis.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Yes, because that's what the spell says it does.
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